From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #151 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, May 17 2001 Volume 04 : Number 151 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V4 #150 ["Ian Goode" ] [idealcopy] Re: residents live ["Syarzhuk Kazachenka" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re:residents ["Frank Jürgen Wörner" ] [idealcopy] The First Letter on Headphones [=?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowla] Re: [idealcopy] Re:residents ["Stephen JC Sheen" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re:residents [Rick Hindman ] Re: [idealcopy] off topic-REMmmmmmmmmm [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy] RE: Residents ["Wilson, Paul" ] Re: [idealcopy] Coatings...Caveat emptor! [HeySean@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Coatings...Caveat emptor! [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: RE: [idealcopy] OffTopic:residents live [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Re:residents [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] [idealcopy] Re: v/vm will bore us to death [Tim Robinson ] [idealcopy] A potentially embarassing question... [Rick Hindman Subject: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V4 #150 Simon Frith is Fred Frith's brother and he is Professor of Pop at Stirling University. Ian. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 14:37:05 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V4 #150 Hey thanks, I've been wondering about this for years (it's hard enough finding people that heard about each one of them seperately - not mentioning both). > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On > Behalf Of Ian Goode > Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 1:19 PM > To: idealcopy@smoe.org > Subject: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V4 #150 > > > Simon Frith is Fred Frith's brother and he is Professor of Pop at > Stirling > University. > > Ian. > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 07:51:32 -0400 From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: residents live >he went to great efforts to see them in the mid-80's and was >massively disappointed with them in the flesh. so are >they really any good live? Saw them a couple years ago on the "Wormwood" tour (weird stories from the Bible). Yes, as Giluz mentioned, it is more of a play than a rock concert - it was in a theater and audience was seated, to begin with! I did like it a lot - very unusual, not like anything else you see. Syarzhuk Be healthy, stay wealthy... Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://www.belmusic.net _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 16:27:05 +0100 From: Howard Spencer Subject: [idealcopy] Re:residents A high court judge question. To my knowledge, I have never heard anything by the Residents. Where might I start? Howard ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 17:40:45 +0200 From: "Frank Jürgen Wörner" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:residents Third Reich'n'Roll The cover artwork alone is worth buying it. FrankfromBavaria - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard Spencer" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 5:27 PM Subject: [idealcopy] Re:residents > A high court judge question. To my knowledge, I have never heard > anything by the Residents. Where might I start? > > Howard ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 18:26:19 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] The First Letter on Headphones Just wanted to say that my appreciation of my least favourite Wir(e) album The First Letter continues to increase... Listened with headphones for the first time last night whilst my wife listened to the Radio 1 rock show (sometimes they play 1-2 good tracks but 2 hrs of cheese is too much to bear!). There's a lot of panning from speaker to speaker which is much more apparent on phones - Footsi Footsi especially seemed to have an urgency it had lacked in the space between speakers. There are some great Gilbert (?) noises in there that I just hadn't noticed before. The second part of my favourite track A Bargain is totally manic on phones and I had to give it a second spin. Then Bruce's voice reveals character I'd never noticed on my other favourite Ticking Mouth. Does anyone have a clue what Graham shouts in the middle of that song? The guitar on It Continues and swirling synths cut through perfectly, and Graham's voice flys all around the place on Big Glue Canal. I think I'm about to reconsider my view that the album doesn't sound finished... It seems a little perverse to be getting into this one more and more whilst Wire are back to the 'beat combo' set up. Then again, in Edinburgh I think Robert was playing synthetic drum pads for Ally In Exile and they were certainly moving away for the ominous Zoom / Boom / Doom. 12 Times You opens the door to a new approach of hacking up live performances into ever more frantically hyper-rocking onslaughts. Germ Ship (new Pink Flag style song from Edinburgh) would lend itself brilliantly to similar treatment. Not so sure if He Knows would benefit from it though. Then again its perhaps not such a new approach considering IBTABA, where they took the live tracks to bits and put them back again... and there's that Strange sample that Take It is based on. It Continues... Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 19:20:48 +0100 From: "Stephen JC Sheen" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:residents At the risk of incurring a cry of heresy from true Residents fans, if you want to dip your toes in the water rather than dive right in, there is a 2 CD compilation "Our Tired, Our Poor, Our Huddled Masses" on Rykodisc that summarises the group's history backwards. It mixes up singles and LP tracks with 10 minute "concentrates" of other LPs (eg, Eskimo and Third Reich and Roll). Accompanied by a thick booklet with plenty of words. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 15:09:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Rick Hindman Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:residents As far as albums, I would recommend "Duck Stab" and "The Commercial Album" as good starting points. One item a coworker just showed me was that on www.residents.com there is an Icky Flix tour page. If you go to the Toronto show info, there is a link to a webcast and you can see how their current show looks. Good luck! RJH ===== - ----------------------------------------------------------- "Suffering is our experience of the distance between what we are and who we wish to become. - -Robert Fripp - ----------------------------------------------------------- Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 19:12:30 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] off topic-REMmmmmmmmmm Ian, << can't believe you didn't know about the cover of 'Strange' though, Mark, despite being 'away'... >> I was actually away for four weeks, travelling round America. The REM album came out about a day before I flew home! So no access to music papers etc meant I'd read no reviews of the record... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 10:13:12 +0100 From: "Wilson, Paul" Subject: [idealcopy] RE: Residents >>>From: MarkBursa@aol.com : V/Vm to select the Residents as their next "humorous" target. And unmask them on the cover Ha! Most Residents fans have a pretty good idea who some of the band are anyway. But they don't really want it confirming. The fact that they have remained "anonymous" for so long is part of the appeal. >>>From: Rick Hindman r_j_h@yahoo.com : I will be seeing them again in a week or so and will pass on info about their current "Icky Flix" live show I've only managed to get to see them once - a couple of years ago, on the Wormwood tour (a snippet of which appears on the Icky Flix DVD - one of the hidden bits that you have to find). I will, of course, be making my way down to London for the Icky concert next month! >>>From: HeySean@aol.com: I wasn't paying attention! Now, tell me, what's the story behind the cardboard CD that comes with Coatings? Will I really get disc 2 if I send them some cash? Well I did. Sent a fiver, got the CD. Maybe they haven't got any left now though. >>>From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com : i saw their 13th anniversary tour, which was in the mid-80s..and it was f***ing excellent! they did a set of greatest hits, they wore eyeball head costumes with tuxedos, they danced, they entertained... And the same this time - greatest hits (?). This really IS the gig to see them at. >>>From: "giluz" giluz@nettalk.com : Was Snakefinger one of the Residents, or just a very frequent special guest? He wasn't a Resident, but he worked with them for a long time, until his death. He couldn't be a Resident, because everyone knew who he was!! And yes, he was special - best guitarist they ever worked with (with the possible exception of Fred Frith). >>>From: Rick Hindman r_j_h@yahoo.com : There is a alot of info online about both the Res and Mr Lithman. Yes, there is. The place to start is www/theresidents.co.uk. (cos I help maintain it!). But there are plenty of links to all the other sites. Go on - give it a quick try. If you are not yet familiar with The Residents, it may open your EYES to a whole new world! rezMole THE MOLES For all things Residential www.theresidents.co.uk PS. >>>From: HeySean@aol.com: I wasn't paying attention! Now, tell me, what's the story behind the cardboard CD that comes with Coatings? Will I really get disc 2 if I send them some cash? Well I did. Sent a fiver, got the CD. Maybe they haven't got any left now though. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 19:23:02 EDT From: HeySean@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coatings...Caveat emptor! Ok the feedback is pretty good. Seems worth a shot. Besides the USA address is only about 20 minutes from here. I can always drive over and liberate our funds.Thanks all (and I barely overcame the thought to try the cardboard disc in my CD player to see if this was supposed to be some new sonic awareness Wire was leading us to....) Sean ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 19:00:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coatings...Caveat emptor! On Wed, 16 May 2001 HeySean@aol.com wrote: > funds.Thanks all (and I barely overcame the thought to try the cardboard disc > in my CD player to see if this was supposed to be some new sonic awareness > Wire was leading us to....) Well, it wouldn't work in the CD player. But try it on your turntable - really loud. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::beliefs are ideas going bald:: __Francis Picabia__ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 01:07:09 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] off topic-Residents Rick wrote :- Plus Penn and Teller were the costars/emcees and it was great! i take it that most Residents fans have heard the 'Penn' cassette, where he pretends he's been locked in a hotel room with only Residents lp's for entertainment... this was my 'introduction' to them by a friend, about ten years ago. i'm not a massive fan, but i like what they do. ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 20:42:35 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: RE: [idealcopy] OffTopic:residents live In a message dated 5/16/01 2:12:50 AM, giluz@nettalk.com writes: > > >Was Snakefinger one of the Residents, or just a very frequent special guest? good question! maybe a particular lister here could give a definitive answer. my guess is the latter. - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 20:45:20 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:residents In a message dated 5/16/01 11:47:14 AM, hspencer@oup.co.uk writes: >A high court judge question. To my knowledge, I have never heard >anything by the Residents. Where might I start? there's so much good stuff to choose from...but i will say duck stab/buster and glen! just fantastic! - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 01:48:42 +0100 From: Tim Robinson Subject: [idealcopy] Re: v/vm will bore us to death Graeme Rowland wrote: Commenting on a record you haven't heard could be said to be reactionary. Yes it is! Good! I react! I rotate eddy and spin! Who doesn't? I was also making an educated guess about the v/vm 'remix' based on having the misfortune to hear a good few of their tracks. I'll bet anyone on this list that the version will be the original track mangled through some effect units...perhaps making Ian have a comedy high pitched voice like pinky & perky....tee hee! Or maybe a really lowwww voice like Barry White! Ha Haaaa! My aching sides. Maybe it'll speed up and slow down like a record going all wonky! Crikey! Those guys are bonkers! Anyway, someone already did a complete hack job on Love Will Tear us Apart for London Records which was released as a single to promote the Best of Joy Division. V/vm couldn't possibly do anything as revolting as that. I don't recall ever hearing northern soul whilst out and about in Manchester. Take your headphones off and take a walk down Oldham St and I guaruntee 'The Snake' by Al Wilson will be blaring from a jukebox or record shop...... V/Vm certainly seem to have pissed one Joy Division fan off there. That was their intention. Wrong. I'm not precious about bands in that way. They can do Wire, MBV, Brian Wilson, I couldn't care less. The only offensive thing about V/vm is how much attention is paid to what amounts to peurile schoolboy humour. So There. Tim Said Why not take the piss out of really crap manchester band like Badly Drawn Boy, or Alfie? or Starsailor? Why keep going for easy targets? Thats the point I was making was that they do usually pick easy targets.....Chris De Burgh, East 17, Spice Girls (who V/vm hilariously called The Spud Girls!) Guffaw! Those crazy guys what will they do next? Why don't they do Nirvana? Why don't they do Can? Theres a band who never get slagged off! Joy Division, etc. gave us themselves. Sex Pistols and Buzzcocks would've got on TV without Wilson. I never thought punk rock was about being on TV. Being on TV is very punk rock. Two Words....Bill Grundy! That picture of Iggy Pop on the front of The Idiot was taken when he was being interviewed on Granada TV.....nuff said! Oh I don't know I was only 4 at the time! Happy Mondays were always crap (except for Bez) Nah! Twenty Four Hour Party People Plastic Face Carnt Smile (White Out) was a great record.....produced by John Cale of all people. Oh to be a fly on the wall of that session. Bummed was a brilliant album, best production Martin Hannet ever did. Piledriver drums, boozy bar-room piano, spaghetti western guitars, great marraca playing by Bez. A soiled masterpiece played by dirty, horrible thugs. Brilliant. Stupid people, clever music. V/vm is just stupid and tedious to listen to unless you are a 13 year old Beavis n' Butthead type. I have a lot more respect for someone like Paul Smith (now managing Wire and still running Blast First) because he doesn't run on past reputation and still uses His Ears! His Ears! And he runs a sucessful retail fashion chain at the same time. Wilson is a patronising old suit who was had a handle on 'cool' about 20 years ago Its too easy to slag off Tony Wilson. Another soft target for v/vm. I actually like the man! I work for Manchester City Council and Wilson does a lot more for this city that people realise. He's always in and out of the town hall. Same goes for Bruce Mitchell from Durutti Column. The truly sad fact is that their Joy Division VVMCPS butchery probably won't be as bad as that 'World in Motion' single. But you see New Order are perfectly capable of pissing on their own legacy without anyone elses help.....bit like the Beach Boys and the Rolling stones. I have forwarded your comments to V/Vm for their amusement. Oh I do wish you hadn't done that! I don't want them to have the satisfaction of knowing that I reacted to their tedious comedy records. I also think you should have asked me first you naughty boy! If I wake up with a pigs head on my pillow I'll be blaming you sunshine! I'll now pass on your comments about Depeche Mode to Daniel Miller! All of this for you! Um yeah, thanks a bunch! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 21:35:37 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: v/vm will bore us to death Tim, Excellent. The v/vm backlash is gathering momentum. There's a picture of them in the NME this week. What tedious wankers. Mark PS - the "hilarious" element of the LWTUA is that it's the Paul Young version, not the JD original. Nurse! PPS - glad someone else agrees re the 'Permanent' LWTUA remix. My heart sinks when I hear it. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 23:49:53 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The First Letter on Headphones In a message dated 5/16/01 1:38:48 PM, crackedmachine@yahoo.co.uk writes: >my other favourite Ticking Mouth. > >Does anyone have a clue what Graham shouts in the >middle of that song? not a clue here, but yes, one of my favorite wir/wire songs. i have always liked first letter, especially ticking mouth. the album has a tingly coldness to it. i find the sounds very penetrating. must give the headphones a try! - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 21:08:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Rick Hindman Subject: [idealcopy] Re:residents And to append my earlier letter, I find that the Residents albums I listen to the most are "Residue" and "Fingerprince". Their later albums like "God in 3 Persons" and "Gingerbread Man" are pretty intense if you are not familiar with their unique mindset. RJH > >A high court judge question. To my knowledge, I > have never heard > >anything by the Residents. Where might I start? > > there's so much good stuff to choose from...but i > will say duck stab/buster > and glen! just fantastic! > > -paul c.d. ===== - ----------------------------------------------------------- "May all your ups and downs be between the sheets." - -Tom Waits - ----------------------------------------------------------- Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 21:11:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Rick Hindman Subject: [idealcopy] A potentially embarassing question... I've been following the v/vm thread for a while and have to say I have no clue who they are. So what does v/vm stand for? > Excellent. > The v/vm backlash is gathering momentum. Kind of sad I'm so out of the loop on a group that already has a backlash going! RJH ===== - ----------------------------------------------------------- "May all your ups and downs be between the sheets." - -Tom Waits - ----------------------------------------------------------- Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #151 *******************************