From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #145 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Friday, May 11 2001 Volume 04 : Number 145 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [idealcopy] OffTopic - Giora Feidman & the Israeli Culture Industry [] [idealcopy] OT: Red House Painters [Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk] [idealcopy] OT ; tv eye [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] RE: [idealcopy] OT ; tv eye - sting vs bowie ["giluz" ] RE: [idealcopy] OT ; tv eye - sting vs bowie [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] [idealcopy] Michael O'Shea ["Bryan Olson" ] RE: [idealcopy] OT ; tv eye - sting vs bowie ["stephen graziano" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OffTopic - Giora Feidman & the Israeli Culture Industry > Who was Giora Feidman? He's clarinet-player and one the living classics of > klezmer-music. He's playing this instrument with a kind of virtuosity and > wrote probably music for clarinet and orchestra with klezmer in mind. > Unbelievable you don't know him giluz? Klezmer music in Israel is mainly listened to by hassidic orthodox jews. Though quite popular in terms of sales, it's being totally ignored by the media, except for the local missionary religious radio stations. Personally I don't particularly care for that sort of music, though if I'm in the right mind for it, I could enjoy it for a short amount of time till it starts repeating itself (it's a bit like my attitude to reggae). I think the problem might be that this music is a bit too happy for me. I do like the klezmer beat, though, which strangely reminds me of house (it has the same oompa-oompa quality). As for Israeli classical composers, I'm completely cutoff from this world (hence my 'conservative' opinions about opera, Dave). I know that there are some modern classical composers here, but I'm not really interested. Israel is a very small country, but it's divided to so many factions and subcultures, that it's very easy not to be aware of something worthy hapenning. The media is either extremely mainstream orientated or extremely orientated towards a certain minority. It's small enough so that most of the things are not worthy, and looking for good stuff is like finding a needle in a haystack. I'm not at all surprised that you listen to a Israeli musician I know nothing about - the same thing happened with Mininal Compact: They were more famous in Europe than in their native country. Even today, when two of MC members are quite big in Israel, most people even don't know that they've been in a band in Europe during the 80's. cheers, giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 09:41:03 +0100 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: [idealcopy] OT: Red House Painters Well, the RHP gig at Shep. Bush Empire last night was excellent. Although I hate the idea of "reserved seating". I don't have the new CD but it sounds pretty good. Anyone? Anyone remotely interested? C The Information in this communication is confidential and may be privileged and should be treated by the recipient accordingly. If you are not the intended recipient please notify me immediately. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose its contents to any other person. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 05:09:58 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] OT ; tv eye for all you sad old punk rockers out there i see C4 is showing the clash's "rude boy" on saturday night (nicely timed after eurovision , great scheduling guys). well worth a look but its a bit of a movie of 2 halves ; the clash live footage is superb. the acting is not. you may have thought sting and bowie were crap actors. well , you were right. but the guy who plays the lead in this movie plumbs amazing new depths , you'd struggle to see a more inept thespian. i think he was a clash roadie or something , not sure that was the ideal background :-) happy pogoing. p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 12:59:18 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT ; tv eye - sting vs bowie > the acting is not. you may have thought sting and bowie were crap > actors. well , you were right. I don't think putting Bowie next to Sting is appropriate here. Though Bowie's attempts to act are more often bad than good, he's far superior to Sting. Bowie can still claim Nic Roeg's The Man Who Fell to Earth to defend his reputation, while Sting can do nothing of the sort - not only does he play bad, he's also doing it on crap films. My favourite Sting role is his cameo appearance in Terry Gilliam's Baron Munchausen, when he's executed a few seconds after he appears (lots of wishful thinking there...) giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 06:14:27 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT ; tv eye - sting vs bowie My favourite Sting role is his cameo appearance in Terry Gilliam's Baron Munchausen, when he's executed a few seconds after he appears (lots of wishful thinking there...) //// personally i much preferred him camping it up in the gay sex scene in "the filth and the fury". but strictly laughing at him , never with him. p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 05:43:53 -0700 From: "Bryan Olson" Subject: [idealcopy] Michael O'Shea Hello Does anyone know when the O'Shea album will become available on wiremailorder.com? Thanks for the info! ~Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 10:07:40 -0400 From: "stephen graziano" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT ; tv eye - sting vs bowie Evidently, you did not see the Stingster, playing himself, on the recent episode of Ally McBeal!! Nobody does Sting like he does. What about that duet w/ Robert Downey Jr. on "Every Breath You Take"? >From: "giluz" >To: "IdealCopy" , >Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT ; tv eye - sting vs bowie >Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 12:59:18 +0200 > > > the acting is not. you may have thought sting and bowie were crap > > actors. well , you were right. > >I don't think putting Bowie next to Sting is appropriate here. Though >Bowie's attempts to act are more often bad than good, he's far superior to >Sting. Bowie can still claim Nic Roeg's The Man Who Fell to Earth to defend >his reputation, while Sting can do nothing of the sort - not only does he >play bad, he's also doing it on crap films. My favourite Sting role is his >cameo appearance in Terry Gilliam's Baron Munchausen, when he's executed a >few seconds after he appears (lots of wishful thinking there...) > >giluz _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 09:52:36 -0500 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] Ambitious; Madrid >From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= >Subject: [idealcopy] Ambitious Coatings >I think its way better than the original >All fans of Gilbert & Lewis collaborations should hear >it. You know you'll regret not getting it when WMO >sell the last copy! I'll just second all of that. >Subject: [idealcopy] Bruce Gilbert's Madrid Remix > >Has anyone heard this remix? > >If so can you post a description? > Yes and ... not really. It's not really like the shed or root stuff ... much more atmospheric. I don't have it w/ me or I'd throw it on for a refresher. I like it fine, but I have to admit that it hasn't stuck w/ me all that well. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 10:07:30 -0500 From: "ray\)\(o\)\(mac" Subject: [idealcopy] sorta OT Russell Mills from the Hum digest - might be of interest to some: Republic of Thorns - Russell Mills and Ian Walton with Paul Farley A commission for the Wordsworth Trust; the inaugural event in the newly created 3 Degrees West Gallery at Island View, Grasmere. In the heart of the English Lake District, home of Wordsworth and the English Romantic Movement, Russell Mills, Ian Walton and Poet-in-Residence, Paul Farley have combined to create a fragmented multi-media work which explores interfaces between the land, its history and its inhabitants. Digging deep into the massed, rich archives of the Wordsworth Trust and the history of mankind's relationship with the natural world, Republic of Thorns references the multiple connections and contradictions which lie behind our use and abuse of the land. From notions of land as organic substance, as school, as property and as inspiration to the actualities of places people inhabit, merely visit, protect, abuse or ignore, the work juxtaposes the visual, the sonic and the word to produce new associations in a psychologically charged experience. Republic of Thorns 3 Degrees West Gallery, The Wordsworth Trust, Dove Cottage, Grasmere, Cumbria LA22 9SH Tel; +44 (0)15394 35544 ; Fax: +44 (0)15394 35748; E-Mail; enquiries@wordsworth.org.uk Exhibition open; April 22nd - July 1st 2001; open daily 7 days a week from 9.30am - 5.30pm. Catalogue with CD Published by the Wordsworth Trust to accompany the installation Republic of Thorns a catalogue with CD in Digipak format by Mills and Walton with Farley; containing a CD of a remixed version of the hypothetically endless soundwork for the installation Republic of Thorns incorporating Farley's uniquely atmospheric reading of his specially written poem 'Thorns' ; a full colour, 32 page catalogue documenting the installation with a foreword by Dr. Robert Woof, Director of the Wordsworth Trust, an interpretive description of the installation, and the first publication of the 120 line, 20 stanza poem 'Thorns' . Designed by Russell Mills with Michael Webster. Limited edition of 1000 copies. Order form for catalogue with CD at #15.99 (UK Sterling) including postage & packing. Please send me ____ copies of Republic of Thorns by Russell Mills and Ian Walton with Paul Farley at #15.99 (UK Sterling) including postage & packing. ____ I enclose my cheque / postal order (made payable to The Wordsworth Trust) ____ I would like to pay by credit card. Credit card Number __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Expiry Date __ __ / __ __ / __ __ Name (Block Capitals) _____________________________________________________________ Address (Block Capitals) ___________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________ Postcode _________________ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 19:19:05 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Why do Pixies sound dated? Giluz >>>>I do like the Pixies, I mean I REALLY like them. But I tend to refrain from listening to them right now because they sound so pathetically dated, unlike 70's or even 80's Wire, for example. Maybe it's because it makes me feel so old - unlike Wire, I was a Pixies fan right from the beginning. I was too (well from hearing Caribou on the radio prior to the release of Pilgrim). I don't think their records sound dated at all. Do you mean dated in terms of recording techniques or musical style? Maybe it just seems dated because so many boring GBD groups have aped them and watered down the influence? The thing is here that I still enjoy Pixies records and Wire records and whether they sound dated or not doesn't really hinder my enjoyment of them. I remember back in the Days When Pixies Screamed From The Earth that I heard Can and dismissed them for just the same reasons. What a load of dated hippy crap I thought. Later I came back to them and enjoyed them very much (after a friend played Father Cannot Yell and I realised I'd been wrong). Later, especially on Tago Mago the dated sound of Can later seemed to be not so dated which is another funny thing about viewing music from a linear time context. I don't really understand why music should become any less enjoyable because it sounds of its time. This is one reason why I always rail against musical genres and reducing music to groups of bands who are all supposedly doing a similar thing (even though this can be useful in some respects - 'if you like this you might also like that'). It almost always does the music a diservice and muddies the water especially when its employed negatively (ie. nearly all these US hardcore bands sounded the same and were retro). >>>>I don't think they were that innovative really - they had this impressive knack of incorporating the noisy alternative style into pop songs, which was great. They were quite innovative in the way they married words to songs I think. They were a lot of fun. Sometimes that's enough! Joey Santiago made some great cavernous noise with his guitar. Unlike Wire, I don't think Pixies were consciously striving to progress... I could be wrong about that. However there is a progression throughout their albums, that's for sure and Frank Black stopped progressing once he did that mediocre album on Sony. >>>>Maybe one of the only bands where you have pop songs with genuine heartbreaking screams on them. Exactly! But there was quite a lot of good screaming coming out of the US at the time. These days its better to look to Japan for it perhaps. But Black Francis scream was a defining aspect and they were perhaps the best band around at the time to scream along to which I think explains a lot of their appeal. Nothing more intellectual than a lot of people gathering in a field to shout in unison, "You are the son of a motherfucker!" Pixies spelt out explicitly what had always been implicit in rock - the primal scream. Wire aren't as easily explained, or are they? Bruce Gilbert: "Wire make a noise." Lock up your hats! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 21:07:21 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Why do Pixies sound dated? giluz & graeme wrote :- >Nothing more intellectual than a lot of people >gathering in a field to shout in unison, "You are the >son of a motherfucker!" >>Pixies spelt out explicitly what had always been >implicit in rock - the primal scream. i seem to remember that the word 'catharsis' was used a lot in early Pixies interviews right up to and including the 'Doolittle' LP. ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #145 *******************************