From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #144 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, May 10 2001 Volume 04 : Number 144 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Re: bad musical experiences OFF TOPIC [Howard Spencer ] [idealcopy] Re C20 composers and lots of other OT's ["Jan J Noorda" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: bad musical experiences OFF TOPIC The Leslie Crowther story reminds me of something I got talked into going to about a year ago, namely the Southwark Mysteries at the National Theatre. For the uninitiated (as I was) this is some sort of religious mummers play type thing, in three parts, nativity, er...middle bit, and crucifiction. It lasts all day, with breaks. The version I saw had unfortunately been `updated' musically to about 1975, I believe by Linda Thompson, who also warbled in a Maggie Bell like way between pointless guitar solos. Maybe I'm just too conservative or something (my take on that debate it that it is all relative - how do we all compare to the population at large, I wonder?) .. but it was dreadful - I suppose the only interesting part was the fact that the performance took place among the audience, but once the novelty of that wore off there was nothing to do but study my fellow audience members, most of whom were the scariest variety of evangelical Christians in full fisherman's smock and woolly jumper regalia (hope I'm not treading on any sandals here). It was like being trapped on the set of a Sunday morning religious programme for kids. Don't know why I didn't leave - didn't want to offend the company, I suppose. Could've been worse - a mate of mine used to get dragged by his ex to full-on Michael Ball type west end shows. That is my present definition of musical hell - until I come up with something worse. Another thing - has anyone else noticed the prevalence of big, bad hair among classical musicians and aficionados - Simon Rattle being a case in point? Howard ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 17:47:20 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Ambitious Coatings > It's an 18 minutes remix of Ambitious, worth having but not as good as the > original I think its way better than the original - Colin didn't seem too pleased when I told him that! All fans of Gilbert & Lewis collaborations should hear it. You know you'll regret not getting it when WMO sell the last copy! They couldn't get hold of the master tapes and had to sample a copy of The Ideal Copy to make it. So it was in fact the ideal copy... Did it make itself? Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 17:53:36 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] IDM is the natural state of dance music other than intelligence? A certain amount of intelligence must be applied to make music. is it intelligent to dance? Yes, especially to Wire. is this the logical progression from "free your mind and your ass will follow"? No. if funkadelic then IDM? Funkadelic is Funkadelic is george clinton ~ albert einstein? No, but do atoms dance? is it smart to be "up for the downstroke"? What does that mean? is IDM the analogue of post-rock (which by one definition *doesn't*) ? No is ~swim an IDM label? No I have (nearly) all the answers today! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 18:21:33 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Bruce Gilbert's Madrid Remix Has anyone heard this remix? If so can you post a description? I picked up a copy of the excellent Madrid CD for just two quid - it'll appeal to fans of Gastr Del Sol, Rachel's and The For Carnation, nice moody instrumentals centred on acoustic guitar. Gilbert's remix appeared on a 12" with a Pan American remix and one other. Lock up your hats! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 18:51:11 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] C20 Composers If you want to hear some twentieth century compositions... Check out the MP3 downloads at this site. http://www.epitonic.com/genres/20thcent.html Go on, proove yourself un-conservative! The experimental section is also worth a look. They have Lee Ranaldo's 'End of Life in America' on here somewhere too (look for the Atavistic label under experimental?), which is what made me go get the excellent Dirty Windows CD! The sky a hollow tomb now... Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 12:54:27 -0500 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] Re: conservatism >From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] conservativism > >> Michael Flaherty wrote >> Actually, I find this list to be PRIMARILY pretty conservative. > >What do you mean by "conservative"? If you mean "sticking reflexively to >the already known - whatever it is, even if it's fairly 'avant-garde' on >its own terms," then yeah, that sometimes seems to be the case. In the arts, I guess I'd say it's the mainstream ... what is already understood, or to be looking for more of the same. This often happens w/ age. But if >you're implying that it's useful to apply the term "conservative" to music >itself (and to fans' taste by extension), then I may disagree with you. Like all terms, it's imperfect at best. But it does have some meaning for me. But I hope you're >not one of those who back-pattingly suggest that people who still like >old-fashioned notions like melody, a beat, and song structure are a bunch >of dinosaurs: to me, that attitude is as limited (and more patronizing) as >the narrow-minded sort that might hear Wire and say, "what's all that >noise then?" I don't do much back patting. I might say that those who defend Wire in your example and respond the same way to avant garde are being as narrow minded as those who call Wire "noise" (assuming that's a negative term--to me it's not). > >Both of those attitudes are what I'd call "conservative" in the first >sense I mention above - they just have opposed orientations. I, for one, >like being able to switch gears and enjoy both Edgard Varese *and* the >Beach Boys (although not at the same time...but come to think of it...) Me too, although I'd replace the Boys w/ the Beatles. I guess to me conservative is closed (again, in arts, not politics), as oppossed to being "open" to something new. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 00:30:38 +0200 From: "Jan J Noorda" Subject: [idealcopy] Re C20 composers and lots of other OT's Indeed I liked the Lee Renaldo's Dirty Window also very much. Originally released on the Dutch Barooni label. People of Barooni organised also the Impakt-festival in Utrecht. Here once Bruce Gilbert performed on a evening with a special theme RADIOWAVES, together with Scanner and S.E.T.I. . I still have one of his transistor-radios he used for this performance. Later broadcasted on Dutch-radio 4. Now to be listen on the patrick.op.het.net.je/wire/. Good to mention Madrid. I only have the twelf inch. Was wandering who they are, where they are from etc. Is something written on this ceedee Graeme? Probably could our radio 4, Netherlands, be compared with radio 3 in the UK. We have on the Monday evening specials who are interesting now and then. The program is called Supplement. Last week Clicks & Cuts with Gilles Deleuze's Milles Plateaux in mind. With Matmos, Fennesz, Kid606 etc. Heard the last triple cd Click&Cuts 2 nearly complete. A couple of weeks ago, SPK's Graeme Revell. Last year two evenings with Robert Fripp. The mentioned Impakt-festival was on the same program. Spoken about contempory composers. Within three weeks Ingram Marshall. And for the Holland-festival, this year a lot of John Cage, with contribution of Sonic Youth, feat. Jim O'Rourke and Glenn Branca. Compare it with the coming RFH-gig I think. Who was Giora Feidman? He's clarinet-player and one the living classics of klezmer-music. He's playing this instrument with a kind of virtuosity and wrote probably music for clarinet and orchestra with klezmer in mind. Unbelievable you don't know him giluz? My last bought ceedee: Biosphere's - Substrata 2. And I like it very much at this moment right here. Ambient beyond. Silence Please Poets at Work ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 18:59:40 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re C20 composers and lots of other OT's In a message dated 09/05/01 23:48:08 GMT Daylight Time, janjnoorda@wish.net writes: > My last bought ceedee: Biosphere's - Substrata 2. And I like it very much at > this moment right here. Ambient beyond. > > Could you let us know a bit more about this CD as it sounds interesting ? Is it available in the UK ? What is Ambient beyond ? (Beyond Ambient?) Cheers Chris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 01:41:56 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] we saw leslie's daughter Paul, ////// yeah , i'd forgotten about her and phil. actually i've forgotten what guys n dolls ever did , dollar were part of them i think. this strand is leading in a very dodgy direction, you're not kidding!!!!!!!! you reminding me of PL is making me think of the greedies then steve jones then ronnie biggs then "no one is innocent". poor old ron actually looks in an even worse state than steve jones from the pictures i saw :-) maybe i'll go drag out my copy of the R'n'R Swindle and blow the dust off it. now you know you'll risk the wrath of several bombasts with that last comment don't you paul!!!! was she really in Guys & Dolls? bloody nora...don't know if they transformed into Dollar there though. Good luck in the Cup Final on Saturday, by the way, COME ON, YOU GUNNERS!!!!!!^_^!!!!!!!!! CHEERS, IAN.S.J. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 01:47:45 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] off topic-those pots and pans... Howard wrote :- Another thing - has anyone else noticed the prevalence of big, bad hair among classical musicians and aficionados - Simon Rattle being a case in point? Mr. Rattle is the most famous ex-pupil of the place where i work!!!! (before my time of course) work being 'grass-roots' musical education in Liverpool. he's still referred to, by some of the old-timers, as 'that snotty nosed kid'..... ian.s.j. ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #144 *******************************