From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #143 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, May 9 2001 Volume 04 : Number 143 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] casting a wish etc... [Alistair Tear ] [idealcopy] OT rugs and poodles ["ray\)\(o\)\(mac" ] [idealcopy] O/OT (off/on) IDM ["ray\)\(o\)\(mac" ] Re: [idealcopy] O/OT (off/on) IDM [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] RE: [idealcopy] O/OT (off/on) IDM ["Ciscon, Ray" ] [idealcopy] conservativism ["ian jackson" ] [idealcopy] Re: mystery classical experience ["ian jackson" ] Re: [idealcopy] conservativism [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 10:43:11 -0000 From: Alistair Tear Subject: [idealcopy] casting a wish etc... It's an 18 minutes remix of Ambitious, worth having but not as good as the original. Thanks for that, giluz... That cd came with my copy of coatings I assumed that was standard issue... Maybe it worked better if you saw the dance piece it was made for... cheers A ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 16:54:23 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] casting a wish /Ambitious remix > It's an 18 minutes remix of Ambitious, worth having but not as good as the > original. > > Thanks for that, giluz... > That cd came with my copy of coatings > I assumed that was standard issue... > Maybe it worked better if you saw the > dance piece it was made for... And what dance piece was that? giluz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 10:29:32 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: RE: [idealcopy] casting a wish /Ambitious remix >>And what dance piece was that?<< it was called Middlesex Gorge. Michael Clark piece. Anyone ever see it? Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 09:39:49 -0500 From: "ray\)\(o\)\(mac" Subject: [idealcopy] OToperaAttic : "giluz" said:> Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OffTopic: Opera /Modern classical > Spare me the details - for me it is enough that it's got an orchestra and an > opera style singing to make it opera by this reasoning: 2 guitars , bass and drums = beatles 2 synths = electronica accordian = polka serious flaws here echoing the "i dont know art, but i know what i dislike" school of criticism mark is right - this list IS very conservative - as in closeminded as a whole varied - yes - but most individuals have very strong preferences - almost to the point of blinders close your eyes - open your ears it is all music! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 09:53:33 -0500 From: "ray\)\(o\)\(mac" Subject: [idealcopy] OT rugs and poodles Thank you SOOOO much for sharing this Paul. I feel not the lease hamstrung by my total ignorance of mr. crouther (i have heard of simon rattle, an fortunate name for someone who earns a living waving his arms) > god , it was excruciating...then he bought on a performing poodle > (cue even bigger "aaaahhhhh"). this finally pushed me over the edge and i got > up and left. it must have been one of the worst performances i've ever seen , > almost surreally bad. and through it all simon rattle is ploughing away like > he's conducting the most meaningful work of the century. Q: You are driving down the road when you spot a conductor on the left and a soprano on the right. Which way do you swerve? A: Left - of course. Business befor pleasure. Q: Whats the difference between a bull and an orchestra? A: The bull has the horns in the front and the ass in the back. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 14:00:45 -0500 From: "ray\)\(o\)\(mac" Subject: [idealcopy] O/OT (off/on) IDM having kicked 'classical' and 'opera' to death (hopefully) what does anyone think of IDM Intelligent Dance Music the name alone begs the questions: is the natural state of dance music other than intelligence? is it intelligent to dance? is this the logical progression from "free your mind and your ass will follow"? if funkadelic then IDM? is george clinton ~ albert einstein? is it smart to be "up for the downstroke"? is IDM the analogue of post-rock (which by one definition *doesn't*) ? is ~swim an IDM label? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 16:14:50 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] O/OT (off/on) IDM ........i dunno about you but i'm still pondering about whether or not my tastes are "strangely conservative". i shall think about this whilst stroking my goatee and listening to some lobe. p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 16:36:47 -0500 From: "Ciscon, Ray" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] O/OT (off/on) IDM ray)o(mac wrote: having kicked 'classical' and 'opera' to death (hopefully) what does anyone think of IDM Intelligent Dance Music the name alone begs the questions: is the natural state of dance music other than intelligence? is it intelligent to dance? is this the logical progression from "free your mind and your ass will follow"? if funkadelic then IDM? is george clinton ~ albert einstein? is it smart to be "up for the downstroke"? is IDM the analogue of post-rock (which by one definition *doesn't*) ? is ~swim an IDM label? =================== You bring up many good questions for us to ponder... I like the terminology, IDM. I've just been using the terms 'good electronica' or neoclassical to describe what I consider IDM, or at least 'good' dance music. I'm a huge fan of 'good' dance music, but like many I suspect, don't dance. The last time my fat ass was out on a dance floor, New Order's Blue Monday was a new release. I prefer my IDM in two flavors, kraut-tinged, i.e. those good ol' fashioned Kraftwerk / Tangerine Dream / Neu / Harmonia influences, or I prefer works with a bit more of a 'classical music' background. The dance part is immaterial, but the music should be 'high-energy'. Vocals should be non-existent or minimal (Kraftwerk get grand-fathered on this rule, and get to sing/speak as much as they want as long as it's in a German accent). Anything with 'jack your body', 'ooh baby I want you', or anything remotely sounds like 70's disco is right out. You can forget your slow-tempo new age, 'music to fall asleep at the wheel by' crap as well. What artists would I consider to producers of IDM? Leftfield Orbital Death in Vegas Autechre Shriekback Aphex Twin Juno Reactor Those are just a few off the top of my head. Is ~swim and IDM label? I would certainly include them. I've got a good number of their releases, and I'd say that Colin's 'Bastard', and Malka's releases would qualify as IDM. Cheers, Ray Ciscon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 23:13:32 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] conservativism Michael Flaherty wrote Actually, I find this list to be PRIMARILY pretty conservative. i agree, (even to being one of those of the conservative persuasion...) but...define 'conservative' (not a request). i can't stand Britney Spears but i'll admit to digging Destiny's Child (yes, their music...) a lot of the stuff listed on idealcopy mails, i just know i would find unlistenable, even if i tried really hard. i have an lp of classical Japanese Koto music, which is wonderful, but pretty hard going...sandwiched between Kraftwerk and King Short Shirt (reggae/calypso). i'm not trying to prove anything with the last few points, it's just 'a question of degree'...or more often than not mood, surely? hey, if it strikes a chord somewhere, whatever it is....... regards, ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 23:14:28 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: mystery classical experience Paul, Re: mystery classical experience ///// well ok , you asked for it. i did paul, and you're extremely brave just telling us, considering what came next... god , it was excruciating. i bet it was... i guess the music was ok but the acting was about as duff as you'd expect. his "company" included his daughter (the one who used to be in guys & dolls) presumably the same daughter who married Phil Lynott?? god, i thought i'd been to some bad gigs!!!!! you poor sod... ^_^, ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 23:16:29 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] IDM From: ray\)\(o\)\(mac Subject: IDM is the natural state of dance music other than intelligence? >yes, i've experienced what is known as a 'natural high' >whilst dancing, but it can also be a purely physical experience. is it intelligent to dance? >not if you've got two left feet and carn't do nuffink wiv 'em. is this the logical progression from "free your mind and your ass will follow"? >is anything logical? if (is?) funkadelic then IDM? >absolutely, you've got to be very clever to be that funky. is george clinton ~ albert einstein? >no, george is Mr. BaddAss. is it smart to be "up for the downstroke"? >no, it's all about timing. is IDM the analogue of post-rock (which by one definition *doesn't*) ? see 'Word Up' by Cameo. is ~swim an IDM label? >i would have thought so. 'do your dance, do your dance, do your dance, quick, momma, come on baby, tell me what's the word...' ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 17:35:05 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [idealcopy] conservativism > Michael Flaherty wrote > Actually, I find this list to be PRIMARILY pretty conservative. What do you mean by "conservative"? If you mean "sticking reflexively to the already known - whatever it is, even if it's fairly 'avant-garde' on its own terms," then yeah, that sometimes seems to be the case. But if you're implying that it's useful to apply the term "conservative" to music itself (and to fans' taste by extension), then I may disagree with you. Sure, some music makes itself very hard to appreciate - nearly anything on the U.S. charts these days, all interchangeable, factory-made parts - but even there, I suppose you could appreciate its *craft*. But I hope you're not one of those who back-pattingly suggest that people who still like old-fashioned notions like melody, a beat, and song structure are a bunch of dinosaurs: to me, that attitude is as limited (and more patronizing) as the narrow-minded sort that might hear Wire and say, "what's all that noise then?" Both of those attitudes are what I'd call "conservative" in the first sense I mention above - they just have opposed orientations. I, for one, like being able to switch gears and enjoy both Edgard Varese *and* the Beach Boys (although not at the same time...but come to think of it...) - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Some days, you just can't get rid of a bomb:: __Batman__ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 18:38:27 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: mystery classical experience In a message dated 08/05/01 23:20:22 GMT Daylight Time, iansjackson@hotmail.com writes: > presumably the same daughter who married Phil Lynott?? > god, i thought i'd been to some bad gigs!!!!! > > ////// yeah , i'd forgotten about her and phil. actually i've forgotten > what guys n dolls ever did , dollar were part of them i think. this strand > is leading in a very dodgy direction , you reminding me of PL is making me > think of the greedies then steve jones then ronnie biggs then "no one is > innocent". poor old ron actually looks in an even worse state than steve > jones from the pictures i saw :-) maybe i'll go drag out my copy of the > R'n'R Swindle and blow the dust off it.p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 19:07:18 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] conservativism Jeff, Couldn't have put it better... Mark << But I hope you're not one of those who back-pattingly suggest that people who still like old-fashioned notions like melody, a beat, and song structure are a bunch of dinosaurs: to me, that attitude is as limited (and more patronizing) as the narrow-minded sort that might hear Wire and say, "what's all that noise then?" Both of those attitudes are what I'd call "conservative" in the first sense I mention above - they just have opposed orientations. I, for one, like being able to switch gears and enjoy both Edgard Varese *and* the Beach Boys (although not at the same time...but come to think of it...) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 23:00:01 -0500 (CDT) From: voyteck@webtv.net Subject: [idealcopy] OT: The Impotence Compensation Symphony Read on: http://www.reason.com/0002/fe.bd.burning.html Aside from Jim Mason's fire symphony, many artists celebrate their exhibits here: http://www.burningman.com (many more links searchable). As long as I'm posting, here's some other links: The IDM Ring: http://nav.webring.yahoo.com/hub?ring=idm&list The Ring Of Punk: http://nav.webring.yahoo.com/hub?ring=nepente&list&page=37 Punk Distributors: http://www.worldwidepunk.com/distro.html Music Web Hunter: http://www.dmamusic.org/kendavies/musicwebhunter/index.html Matt Howarth's Links: http://www.matthowarth.com/links/ And for whatever value this may be: http://www.glyphs.com/forums/music Finally, a nice piece on Joey Ramone (scroll down main page to link): http://www.reason.com This month's Reason cover (next month online) is "The Beatle's: why such an interest after 30 years". Coincidentally, Friday May 11 on ABC tv, Paul's "Wingspan" airs. Anyone been through the desert on horse with no name? Go for it!! DavO ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 09:58:50 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] O/OT (off/on) IDM > is the natural state of dance music other than intelligence? No more than any other musical style, and considering its main purpose (making people dance) and the music industry, maybe even less (intelligent, that is) than other styles. > is it intelligent to dance? No, but it's great fun. One of the things that made me understand dance music was that the best way to consume it is primarily by, er... dancing - I've been to some great parties where the music was something which I would never listen to at home by myself, while as a dance music in the context of a dance club it was great. Of course the best kind would be something which you could both dance to and enjoy listening to, but this is quite rare. > is IDM the analogue of post-rock (which by one definition *doesn't*) ? Not at all - post-rock is a style, IDM sounds more like a point of view - you'd probably find lots of people disagreeing about whether certain acts are worthy of being labelled as IDM, whereas post-rock is a much more defined thing. > is ~swim an IDM label? Maybe the only definition that can apply to it. giluz ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #143 *******************************