From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #142 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, May 8 2001 Volume 04 : Number 142 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [idealcopy] OffTopic: Opera /Modern classical ["giluz" ] Re: [idealcopy] G.B.V. again... ["Paul Pietromonaco" ] [idealcopy] OT: Classical [Michael Flaherty ] [idealcopy] Re: mystery classical experience [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 12:31:34 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OffTopic: Opera /Modern classical > Me too for Der Silbersee - guilt over pineapple theft, the episode of the > lottery agent, the walk across the frozen lake, and that. Well worth > investigating for those who know the Weill/Brecht collaborations. But ... > it's not an opera. It's a play with music - and it lasts the full > four hours > ! :) Spare me the details - for me it is enough that it's got an orchestra and an opera style singing to make it opera, though I believe Der Silbersee is more related to classic opera than Weill's collaborations with Brecht, which were plays with music (I'm not using the term musical, because it's far above that mostly inferior format, besides the fact that it predates it), where the music used to have far more popular music influences than the Silbersee (Der Silbersee's text was written by Georg Kaiser). I tend to agree with Graeme, about not being interested in anything composed before 1950, only I'd stretch that period till the beginning of the 20th century. Electronic music existed before the first oscillators were invented. The first synth was invented in 1909 or 1907 - it took so much electricity (each key was plugged to a different power source) that it was only played once. Other electronic/industrial compositions of the time included a piece written for chimney whistles and a piece written for car horns, so if you're looking for electronic based ideas, you can already find them in the first half of the 20th century. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 08:32:51 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] opera?vile??? Ian, << just for the record... MrSodium wrongly quoted me on this one... iansjackson@hotmail.com writes: << Just the most appalling racket. All Opera is vile;-) >> only guilty in the catalytic sense, your honour!! (i think it was M.Bursa, by the way) >> Guilty as charged, m'lud.... Just echoing Morrisey's comment on reggae - hoping someone wouldn't get the joke! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 17:40:52 +0200 From: "Frank Jürgen Wörner" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] G.B.V. again... - ----- Original Message ----- From: "ian jackson" To: Cc: "idealcopy" Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 11:48 PM Subject: [idealcopy] G.B.V. again... > From: "Frank J|rgen Wvrner" > Guided by Voices - Isolation Drills > > >so come on Frank, give us G.B.V. fans the lowdown on the new one!! Sorry, comrades, I'm no "expert" on G.B.V, but reading so much about them on this list I napstered their new release to get an impression. It sounds a little bit like the Fire Engines, Jazzateers or "Q and no U" ... ...nervous guitar music ... I prefer bands like the Close Lobsters or the Feelies when I want this kind of music. My problem at the moment is, that I napstered a lot of music during the last months and there are some records I'd really love to buy but that is almost impossible as they are not available in Germany or Europe. An example is "The misadventures of Saint Etienne" which is a Japan only release. Frank from Bavaria ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 11:02:46 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] G.B.V. again... > > >so come on Frank, give us G.B.V. fans the lowdown on the new one!! > > I'm no "expert" on G.B.V, but reading so much about > them on this list I napstered their new release to get an impression. > It sounds a little bit like the Fire Engines, Jazzateers or "Q and no U" .. > ...nervous guitar music ... I prefer bands like the Close Lobsters or > the Feelies when I want this kind of music. > Again, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, this new album is not their finest work. There are a couple of classic songs, but I'm disappointed by this CD. You should try Napstering "Under The Bushes, Under The Stars", "Alien Lanes" or "Bee Thousand" for a better representation of GbV's work. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 14:00:19 -0500 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] OT: Classical >From: "Stephen JC Sheen" > >What strangely conservative responses from listers about classical music. Actually, I find this list to be PRIMARILY pretty conservative. >If you take "classical" as what you would have to go to the Classical >section of the record shop to buy, the range from pap to iconoclastic is a >lot broader than for pop/rock. True. The word has little meaning to me, beyond certain forms of presentation. >Ignore the culture Always. :) >From: MarkBursa@aol.com >Well, I defined "classical" as adhering to a "classical" structure - >generally orchestral works rooted in pre-20th century European tradition. I >don't really consider Stockhausen, Boulez, Reich or even Satie to fit this >definition. I would respectfully disagree here, although again it's probably more a matter of terms than anything important. A reviewer at THE WIRE recently commented, while reviewing a book on La Monte Young, Philip Glass, Terry Riley, and Steve Reich, that minimalism has been called "pop music for intellectuals," and added something to the effect that while the tag was meant as an insult, it in fact is not. If the experimenters who are working in traditional classical forms are in fact not classical--and perhaps they are not, then it seems to me the music is inevitably going to die. The same can be said of Wynton Marsalis's vision of jazz. None of this makes, for example, Glenn Branca, a classical composer (any more than it means he is not), but he certainly doing something of interest. With a composer like Part who more obviously come from the tradition, the case is easier to make, but most conservative would be unlikely to agree to put him on the level of Brahams. Then again, only someone with little listening experience would say that Beethoven sounds a LOT like Bach, yet time has made them, in retrospect, a major link in the chain of music considered classical. I listen to Cage, Riley, Glass, etc., and to Schonberg and Bartok, and to Part, and to Glenn Branca and Phill Niblock. Whether these writers are ultimately part of some larger whole is something that is unlikely to be decided in their (or our) lifetime. So there. ;) Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 16:49:14 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Re: mystery classical experience PaulRabjohn wrote :- my other classical music story involves leslie crowther , shakespeare and a poodle. but i think i'll save that for later. i don't think i can bear the curiosity factor here paul, come on, spill the beans (when you have time...) i think we should all know... ///// well ok , you asked for it. i am enjoying the classical dialogue but it is probably better i contribute silly stories than my opinions on the relative merits of shostakovich and steve reich :-) a good few years back a friend of mine offerred me a ticket to go see the CBSO when a friend of hers dropped out through "illness" (a likely tale). i met her outside birmingham town hall (the venue , this must have been pre-symphony hall). we were sitting on the steps talking when i noticed a "celebrity" walk by wearing the worst toupee i'd ever seen. "hey", i said , "that was leslie crowther" (nothing much gets past me....). "oh yeah" she said , nonchalently , "its his company doing the show". now i had misunderstood , i thought it was a classical concert. what it actually was was bits of classical music interspersed with bits of "midsummer nights dream" performed by les & co. now this sounded a bit dodgy but i was committed by this point so i couldn't really escape.... god , it was excruciating. i guess the music was ok but the acting was about as duff as you'd expect. his "company" included his daughter (the one who used to be in guys & dolls) , the whole thing looked like it had put together by some amateur dramatic troupe. for some reason he kept inserting slapstick humour sequences into it , the audience was mostly geriatric and they seemed to prefer these bits. then he bought on some 5 year old kids to do a song (cue old ladies to all go "aaahhhh"). then he bought on a performing poodle (cue even bigger "aaaahhhhh"). this finally pushed me over the edge and i got up and left. it must have been one of the worst performances i've ever seen , almost surreally bad. and through it all simon rattle is ploughing away like he's conducting the most meaningful work of the century. i'm sure the CBSO have some great nights but i just don't seem to find them. again i spent a lot of money and i ended up seeing a bad version of crackerjack , i must get lucky eventually. er , maybe. p ps apologies to anyone non-english as i bet the above didn't mean a thing! ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #142 *******************************