From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #141 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Monday, May 7 2001 Volume 04 : Number 141 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [idealcopy] OffTopic:Classical ["giluz" ] RE: [idealcopy] casting a wish into the wind ["giluz" ] RE: [idealcopy] OffTopic: live laptops ["giluz" ] RE: [idealcopy] OffTopic: Opera /Jazz ["giluz" ] Re: [idealcopy] the classical, the classical... ["Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OffTopic:Classical > Colin. Paert of course he mentioned it. Giora Feidman, Giya > Kancheli. but they > are all living. Giora Feidman. What do you think of him giluz? Never heard of him, name has an Israeli sound to it. Who's he then? giluz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 11:57:28 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] casting a wish into the wind > Excuse me guys, what is this cd single / insert thingy?? > I got Coatings a while back and don't know what you're > on about....some limited edition thing ? or what? It's an 18 minutes remix of Ambitious, worth having but not as good as the original. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 11:57:20 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OffTopic: live laptops > "What is the point of laptops live?" What's the point of any instrument live? The fact that most people use laptops onstage as a device to play prepared music, doesn't mean that there aren't those who could actually play them just like any other instrument. A computer is a musical instrument. I think now is a time when its possibilities are just being explored, including those of playing it live. When the electric guitar was first invented it was meant to be an amplified classical or acoustic guitar. No-one really thought it would be used so differently that it would turn out to be a completely different instrument. same goes for computers: in 10 years time or so it would probably be completely accepted as an instrument, which could also be played live onstage. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 11:56:55 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OffTopic: Opera /Jazz Well, I studied Jazz on the piano, and stopped just when I got to the point where you have to listen to lots of Jazz in order to play it properly. Today there are hardly any post-be-bop acts I can stand. Modernism ruined jazz, with its musical complexity and dreary improvised (but yet very strict) solos. I quite like rock bands that include jazz elements in their music (Henry Cow / Faust), but most jazz musicians that tried doing the opposite ended up with Fusion (yuck). As to classical, I've got a bit of a problem with the pomposity of symphonies, and with the way musicians in orchestras are totally subordinate to the will of the conductor. I always found 20th century classical music to be more interesting. I've seen Steve Reich's Tehilim with the Israeli Philharmonic and it was great, but Reich with just 4 percussionists was even better. I still wait for the time when I'll totally get into modern classicists like Berg and Stockhausen. Opera: I always hated that artificial style, with its spectacle and bigger than life singing. The only opera I could ever relate to was Kurt Weill's Der Silbersee. Weill is one of my favourite musicians (that is before he moved to America and started making American music), and the performance of Der Silbersee which I got was heavily oriented towards a more classical approach to his work (as opposed to a more jazzy/cabaret approach one can hear in the Lotte Lenya albums). I didn't like it at first but kept listening to it over and over till I finally did like it, but I never found any other example of classical opera singing that I did like. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 07:08:32 -0400 From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] the classical, the classical... >Aside from some very easy to like stuff like Bizet's "Carmen" and >Mozart's "Magic Flute" Hey, I got once to the opera where they performed "Carmen" as Bizet originally wrote it, not the "radio-friendly" shortened version that most of us know. I can understand why he couldn't get any theater to perform his original version - after all, it lasted for the damned 4 hours! >I'd also recommend John Moran's "Manson Family" opera which >features the voices of Iggy Pop and Suzy Roache. Can't say I liked it too much, but Iggy doing opera is certainly interesting. For some other unusual Iggy check out Ofra Haza's song "Daw da hiya", where he does a narration. Syarzhuk Be healthy, stay wealthy... Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://www.belmusic.net _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 13:35:37 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Killing Joke In a message dated 06/05/01 07:29:27 GMT Daylight Time, eric719@webtv.net writes: > . I never saw them live but someone else on > the list mentioned they weren't so hot around this time. Good call. Oh > well, being the only live KJ album I guess it will have to do. Anybody > that had high hopes for this CD, approach with caution. > > ///// don't say i didn't warn you! there was an earlier official live 10" > album called Ha! , don't know if it's available on cd but its pretty poor > anyway (and only has 6 tracks). 2 semi-official live releases happened when > they split in 82 ; an lp called "live in london" (the london date on the > "whats this for" tour) and a tape called "the unperverted pantomime" (a > very early live gig and the final peel session). now these are the ones to > go track down , but i guess it wouldn't be easy.......p ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 13:53:56 EDT From: HeySean@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Killing Joke Killing Joke came here to LA to play at the Whiskey back in, I think, '81 and were really great live. We had just finished booing JFA (Jodie Foster's Army) off the stage (friggin' wimps; at one point during the booing they simply stopped playing and the singer pleaded with us - didn't he know that would just make it worse?) and then Killing Joke came out, full of fire and energy and slightly threatening. Then Mark started in on us! He said "the problem with you lot is you don't know the start of something really big when you see it!" Well did he mean Killing Joke?? JFA?? himeself?? what?? So we all told him to shut the fuck up and play the music we'd come to hear. After two albums I was pretty much done with Killing Joke anyway! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 12:54:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Rick Hindman Subject: [idealcopy] Fwd: SPREAD THE WORD ON ACID PRO 3.0 AND RECEIVE FREE LOOPS! Hey all- I wanted to pass this info on to let you know that the new version of Acid Pro 3.0 is available at a special price. It is usually $350-$399, but if you follow one of the links below, you can get it for $99.00!! And on the "not-so-altruistic" side, for every referral to them, I can get a free looping library from Sonic Foundry!! I hope some of you will take advantage of this, as Acid Pro is a very fun and easy to use tool for making music! RJH ****************************************************** Email or tell your friends about ACID PRO, and send them to http://www.sonicfoundry.com/promo.asp?keycode=6677 for the boxed version or http://www.sonicfoundry.com/promo.asp?keycode=6676 for downloadable when they are ready to buy. On the Sonic Foundry Online Store address form, your friends will see a field labeled "Referred By". Tell them to put your email address, r_j_h@yahoo.com, in that field. Shortly after the June 15 deadline, we'll total up your referrals and send you an email to let you know how many Loops for ACID libraries you've earned. At that time you can call our customer service department to claim your FREE Loops for ACID libraries. Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 21:56:31 +0100 From: "Stephen JC Sheen" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OffTopic: Opera /Jazz Me too for Der Silbersee - guilt over pineapple theft, the episode of the lottery agent, the walk across the frozen lake, and that. Well worth investigating for those who know the Weill/Brecht collaborations. But ... it's not an opera. It's a play with music - and it lasts the full four hours ! :) Apologies for being pedantic, but it gives me a last chance to nominate an opera for home exploration - Bartok's "Bluebeard's Castle" from 1911. Less than an hour long, just two characters straight out of an Egon Schiele/Oscar Kokoshka painting, action that is probably better enacted in your imagination rather than on a stage (basically the Duke revealing to his new bride the delights and horrors hidden behind the seven doors of his castle), thick swirling music whose sole purpose is expressive support of the story and where it is never unnatural that the participants are singing. A bit Goth, to be honest. > The only opera I could ever relate to was Kurt Weill's Der Silbersee. Weill is one of my favourite musicians (that is before he moved to America and started making American music), and the performance of Der Silbersee which I got was heavily oriented towards a more classical approach to his work (as opposed to a more jazzy/cabaret approach one can hear in the Lotte Lenya albums). I didn't like it at first but kept listening to it over and over till I finally did like it, but I never found any other example of classical opera singing that I did like.> > giluz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 22:14:49 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] The Classic Remains Forget about Brahms and Wagner My taste might be bracketed by pedants under a 'contemporary composition' umbrella as opposed to 'classical' but I tend to find music made before the fifties (birth of electronic/computer composition and rock'n'roll or so some historians would have us believe) doesn't connect with me very often. It could be that I've yet to hear the best stuff? Life is probably too short when there is so much to hear... Try these on for odd size... Krystof Penderecki - Threnody for the Victims of Hiroshima (if you hear one piece of C20 'classical'...) Iancu Dumitrescu (everything I've heard from him is a transcendant splurge of original Romanian noise genius) Iannis Xenakis - esp. the electronic ones Karlheinz Stockhausen - Kontakte, Telemusik, Gruppen John Cage - Credo in US, anything aleatory Francis Dhomont - Frankenstein Symphony Pierre Henry - Voile D'Orphee, Le Voyage, anything really Tim Hodgkinson - Sang (a former Henry Cow) Arvo Part - Tabula Rasa (everything else I've heard from him bored me though) Michael Nyman - MGV, Draughtsmans Contract Steve Reich - Different Trains, Drumming, Early Works Bernard Parmegiani - De Natura Sonorum (an electroacoustic classic) Luc Ferrari - Unheimlich Schon Stravinsky - The Rites of Spring Gilles Gobeil Pauline Oliveros - anything Jonathan Harvey - Bakti Luigi Nono Jonty Harrison Rebecca Saunders Rhys Chatham - Guitar Trio, Die Donnerguitar Phill Niblock - anything but Touch Works for Hurdy Gurdy & Voice is as good as dronemusic gets Glenn Branca - Symphonies 1-10 (there is a non-guitar orchestral one which is pretty boring though) Morton Feldman Ryoji Ikeda - 0 degrees C Otomo Yoshihide - Cathode John Wall - Fractuur Giacinto Scelsi Gavin Bryars - Sinking of the Titanic Jens Hedman Joseph Hyde - when I saw him do his 'Resonating Arch' in Manchester, I told him to check out Gilbert's 'Singing Pier' as there were similarities. He's never heard of Gilbert or Wire and asked me to write down the name of the album for him Stephen Montague - Concerto for Taxis (performed on taxis outside Manchester City Hall) Dennis Smalley Paul Lanski Mary Anne Amacher John Zorn David Shea Jim O'Rourke Roger Reynolds Witold Lutoslawski Christophe Charles Earle Brown Bob Ostertag Daniel Weaver Etc Etc Etc The list is too long. The trouble is that latterly the most interesting composers just don't fit the 'classical' mould. Yet again, as I've argued with 'punk', genre cannot constrain ideas. It has probably been argued to death that Cage's chance operations opened things into limitless possibility. For example, improvisers such as Tim Hodgkinson and Otomo Yoshihide are also composers. Latterly much cross pollination with other musics occurs of course. Maybe this is the time to ask in an almost certainly futile attempt to find out if anyone else has heard this... I went to a series of electroacoustic diffusion concerts in Manchester a few years back and one exceptional piece was inspired by 'punk rock'. I really wish I knew what it was called and who composed it so I could get hold of a recording. The composer had definitely been heavily into Pink Flag and Reuters as it had a similar atmosphere in parts, also Pistols Holidays in the Sun and lots of 1234 count ins. Has anyone heard this? Try checking out 'Hear and Now' on Radio 3 - sometimes they play good stuff! Lock up your hats! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 14:35:49 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Jawbox/Burning Airlines >> Well, of course. (^_^) You know that they're basically the main >> singer/songwriter/guitarist from Jawbox, right? > > yes paul, i have a friend who is very much into Jawbox and B.A., > in fact, i used to play the odd Jawbox track on my old radio show, > another under-rated band of the 'pop' persuasion i think. > i actually haven't heard any of the B.A. lp's yet, hopefully soon! > Sorry - I hope I wasn't insulting to you, Ian. (^_^) I just wasn't sure how much information about Burning Airlines had made it's way out of the local band circuit. Say - the DeSoto records homepage ( http://www.desotorecords.com ) has an MP3 of a Burning Airlines track from the new album (not sure if it's a single or not) : http://www.desotorecords.com/sounds/mp3/burning_air_paper_crowns.mp3 DeSoto records is the record label that Jawbox runs. They also release Juno, another pretty cool band - not quite as good as Jawbox, IMHO, but interesting nonetheless. (And, I'm not just saying that because Juno is from the Pacific Northwest.(^_^)) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 14:46:20 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: [idealcopy] [OT] Grant Hart live in Seattle Hi everyone, With all of the mention of Husker Du on idealcopy lately, I thought I'd just drop a quick note to let you know that I saw Grant Hart performing solo last night at Graceland in Seattle. (For those of you who followed the grunge phenomenom, Graceland is the old Off Ramp, with better bathrooms.) Grant played a very good set, accompanying himself on electric guitar. He played Husker chestnuts like "Sorry Somehow" and "Green Eyes" as well as some of his more recent solo work, and even a couple of Nova Mob songs. Afterwards, I chatted with him a little bit, and got an autograph on his latest CD (which he mentioned was a collector's edition - different artwork from the normal one.) He made a point to personalize the autograph, which I've seen very few people do. He was very friendly, and in good spirits. It's good to see him doing well - he's seemed to have the most up and down career after Husker Du split up. He drank no alcohol - going for organic beverages - and even shared his backstage fruit bowl with the audience during the encore. And, with the exception of some young girls chatting in the front - who Grant publicly chastised during the set - the crowd was very well behaved. Jon Auer of the Posies and Jen Ghetto of Cariss'a Wierd (not a typo) were the opening acts. Jon has released an E.P. of covers (called 6 1/2) that includes a version of Grant's "Green Eyes", but he didn't perform it last night. (Side note: Jon does have a very nice cover of a Swervedriver song on the EP - These Times.) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 05:16:49 +0100 From: Tim Robinson Subject: Re [idealcopy] Joy Division Collectors Watch Out! Oh Yeah watch out. (Can I just make it clear that the following comments are not a criticism of Graeme, they relate entirely the artist known as V/vm) Graeme quoted v/vw VVMT21 - sick-LOVE WILL TEAR US APART (7") well is it really 21 years since IAN CURTIS hung himself,, well it strangely IS---- so being local boys we thought we'd upset everyone by digging him up and dusting him off for a beyond the grave performance of Joy Divisions biggest HIT 00 - love will tear us apart.......of course we'll incur the wrath of many people who see JOY DIVISION as being holy and untouchable, Oh the incredibly subversive V/vm again. I presume they are going to feed the song through a Ring Modulator (easily obtainable from your local Tandy/Radio Shack) so the vocal sounds a bit like a Dalek. Ha ha ha. How could anyone tire of the endless hilarity that must bring. but of course we don;t care and are unbothered by that prospect/ If they don't care, why waste the plastic to release the item? anyway flip this purple/black vinyl 7" over and we are presente And another thing!. The obsession with 7" Vinyl, just like those reactionary Northern Soul bores that run the Manchester Music Scene. 10 years time you'll have people trying to bring back VHS video as well, long after DVD has taken over. with a whole new mix of the song as performed by PAUL young remixed by JANSKY NOISe- perfect,, of course WE BLAME TONY WILSON- and we hope that wilson hears this record and is duly UPSET.... Oh wake me up when its f**kin over! Dissing Tony Wilson is hardly original. Tony Wilson gave us Joy Divison, ACR, Durrutti Column, Happy Mondays and New Order and put Sex Pistols, the Buzzcocks etc on National TV. What the fuck have V/vm ever done for us? Made fun of Chris De-Burgh and Robbie Williams? V/vm are basically a post modern version of the Barron Knights only not as funny. "released on the 18th of MAY, 21 years to the day...../" that's the hook/./ SEND your hate mails to us forthwith--- post it to joy division mailing lists---- ' like we care- '''''ian would love it anyway In your dreams V/vm. He'd probably...."thats the track fed through a ring-modulator. Is this the mix Martin Hannet did after we'd gone home and he'd had a bit too much china white? Bollocks to this I'm having dinner with Frank Sinatra in Heaven, what are you doing tonight? No doubt feeding 'Tarzan Boy' by Baltimora through your effects unit. Ha f**king Ha." Why not take the piss out of really crap manchester band like Badly Drawn Boy, or Alfie? or Starsailor? Or is that a bit close to the 'Twisted Nerve'? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 23:06:47 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Grant Hart live in Seattle > Jen Ghetto of Cariss'a Wierd > (not a typo) Okay, once again the gremlin fingers have got me. Carissa's Wierd is the real spelling. When I said not a typo, of course a typo would creep in. (^_^) Mea Culpa, Paul ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #141 *******************************