From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #140 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Sunday, May 6 2001 Volume 04 : Number 140 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] OT (Soap) opera [MrSodium@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Classical ["Stephen JC Sheen" ] Re: [idealcopy] Classical [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] the classical, the classical... ["stephen graziano" ] [idealcopy] classical radio (an old Clash tune?) ["ian jackson" ] [idealcopy] OT: Killing Joke [eric719@webtv.net (Eric Strang)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 07:22:40 EDT From: MrSodium@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] OT (Soap) opera iansjackson@hotmail.com writes: << Just the most appalling racket. All Opera is vile;-) >> I'm just guessing, but I always found that opera worked too hard to sell the story, maybe due to its origins back in the day where one had to get to the poor schmo all the way in the back without benefit of amplification. In practice, this generally turns out to be a lot of obese people shrieking at the top of their lungs, overacting, over emoting and generally being wayyy too melodramatic. It is not coincidental that crappy TV melodramas are called soap operas. The best take on opera was that old Rice Krispies commercial where the bloke gets all worked up because they have run out of cereal. Was that a US-only proposition? As far as modern musical stabs on the topic, I' m aware of Malcolm McL's efforts, and one by Laswell called "Operazone, " which I actually own but for the life of me cannot recall a note of. Guess that sums it up rather nicely. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 12:37:59 +0100 From: "Stephen JC Sheen" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Classical What strangely conservative responses from listers about classical music. Especially as a lot of the more progressive recommendations made on this list bear the same relationship to what the "classical" experimentalists of the 1960s (Stockhausen, Boulez/IRCAM, Reich) were up to as Elastica do to Wire. If you take "classical" as what you would have to go to the Classical section of the record shop to buy, the range from pap to iconoclastic is a lot broader than for pop/rock. Ignore the culture - the penguins at Covent Garden and the university lecturers who would sneer at the popularism of Autechre as we have at Phil Collins - and try a few experiments of your own. And (in the UK) do it for nothing by tuning in to BBC Radio 3 (90.2-92.4FM or www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/). For example ... 7:10pm BST tonight Shostakovich's "Paradise Moscow" from Opera North 10:45pm tonight "Hear and Now" celebrating 30 years of the Contemporary Music Network 10:15pm Mon-Thurs "Late Junction" (mixture of Steve Reich, Tibetan throat singers, Go-Betweens, Eno and, unfortunately, the Grateful Dead - in the last month have featured both Matmos and Chris Watson's bird tapes). And if anyone wants to follow up Jan's Arvo Part recommendation, he is by coincidence Radio 3's next Composer of the Week - 7-11 May 9-10am. Try "Cantus in memoriam Benjamin Britten" (c9:45am Monday), "Tabula Rasa" and "Fratres" (c9:30am Tuesday), or perhaps "If Bach had been a Beekeeper" (c9:15am Wednesday). ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 10:25:54 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Classical Stephen, << What strangely conservative responses from listers about classical music. Especially as a lot of the more progressive recommendations made on this list bear the same relationship to what the "classical" experimentalists of the 1960s (Stockhausen, Boulez/IRCAM, Reich) were up to as Elastica do to Wire. If you take "classical" as what you would have to go to the Classical section of the record shop to buy, the range from pap to iconoclastic is a lot broader than for pop/rock. >> Well, I defined "classical" as adhering to a "classical" structure - generally orchestral works rooted in pre-20th century European tradition. I don't really consider Stockhausen, Boulez, Reich or even Satie to fit this definition. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 10:59:38 -0400 From: "stephen graziano" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] the classical, the classical... Aside from some very easy to like stuff like Bizet's "Carmen" and Mozart's "Magic Flute" and some isolated classic arias, I always found opera hard to enjoy because I felt that it was very overblown and artificial, very unnaturalistic. I must say that Philip Glass's "Einstein on the Beach" completely turned my thoughts around. It's simple, melodic, and intesely emotive and emotional. After that I've learned to enjoyed several of his later works, and I'd also recommend John Moran's "Manson Family" opera which features the voices of Iggy Pop and Suzy Roache. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 00:30:01 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Joy Division Collectors Watch Out! VVMT21 - sick-LOVE WILL TEAR US APART (7") well is it really 21 years since IAN CURTIS hung himself,, well it strangely IS---- so being local boys we thought we'd upset everyone by digging him up and dusting him off for a beyond the grave performance of Joy Divisions biggest HIT 00 - love will tear us apart.......of course we'll incur the wrath of many people who see JOY DIVISION as being holy and untouchable, but of course we don;t care and are unbothered by that prospect/ anyway flip this purple/black vinyl 7" over and we are presented with a whole new mix of the song as performed by PAUL young remixed by JANSKY NOISe- perfect,, of course WE BLAME TONY WILSON- and we hope that wilson hears this record and is duly UPSET.... "released on the 18th of MAY, 21 years to the day...../" that's the hook/./ SEND your hate mails to us forthwith--- post it to joy division mailing lists---- ' like we care- '''''ian would love it anyway000*/ recorded outside strawberry studios_stockport/ NORTH0 ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 03:08:50 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] mystery classical experience PaulRabjohn wrote :- my other classical music story involves leslie crowther , shakespeare and a poodle. but i think i'll save that for later. i don't think i can bear the curiosity factor here paul, come on, spill the beans (when you have time...) i think we should all know... ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 03:10:35 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] Jawbox/Burning Airlines re :- Burning Airlines , paul wrote :- Well, of course. (^_^) You know that they're basically the main singer/songwriter/guitarist from Jawbox, right? yes paul, i have a friend who is very much into Jawbox and B.A., in fact, i used to play the odd Jawbox track on my old radio show, another under-rated band of the 'pop' persuasion i think. i actually haven't heard any of the B.A. lp's yet, hopefully soon! ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 03:11:51 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] opera?vile??? just for the record... MrSodium wrongly quoted me on this one... iansjackson@hotmail.com writes: << Just the most appalling racket. All Opera is vile;-) >> only guilty in the catalytic sense, your honour!! (i think it was M.Bursa, by the way) ^_^ ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 03:13:44 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] classical radio (an old Clash tune?) Stephen JC Sheenwrote, re BBC Radio 3:- 7:10pm BST tonight Shostakovich's "Paradise Moscow" from Opera North 10:45pm tonight "Hear and Now" celebrating 30 years of the Contemporary Music Network 10:15pm Mon-Thurs "Late Junction" (mixture of Steve Reich, Tibetan throat singers, Go-Betweens, Eno and, unfortunately, the Grateful Dead - in the last month have featured both Matmos and Chris Watson's bird tapes). And if anyone wants to follow up Jan's Arvo Part recommendation, he is by coincidence Radio 3's next Composer of the Week - 7-11 May 9-10am. Try "Cantus in memoriam Benjamin Britten" (c9:45am Monday), "Tabula Rasa" and "Fratres" (c9:30am Tuesday), or perhaps "If Bach had been a Beekeeper" (c9:15am Wednesday). thanks for all this stephen, Radio 3 has been a key factor in my 're-introduction' to classical music. like a lot of people, i can't always tune in when i want to, but i do try to hear the odd hour or two at work, now and again. ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 03:15:35 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] classical/Satie Mark Bursa wrote :- Well, I defined "classical" as adhering to a "classical" structure - generally orchestral works rooted in pre-20th century European tradition. I don't really consider Stockhausen, Boulez, Reich or even Satie to fit this definition. funny you should say this Mark, particularly about Satie, as the one tape i have of his stuff i had never really considered as classical, before a few years ago...more 'early ambient' than anything, my interest in him was kindled by the surrealist movement rather than anything musical. ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 23:25:22 -0700 (PDT) From: eric719@webtv.net (Eric Strang) Subject: [idealcopy] OT: Killing Joke Just got through giving the new live CD a spin. Er... not real impressive. Sound quality isn't the greatest and their playing left something to be desired to me. I never saw them live but someone else on the list mentioned they weren't so hot around this time. Good call. Oh well, being the only live KJ album I guess it will have to do. Anybody that had high hopes for this CD, approach with caution. Eric ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #140 *******************************