From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #139 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Saturday, May 5 2001 Volume 04 : Number 139 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Re: Classics for pleasure [Howard Spencer ] [idealcopy] classic remains ["squonk" ] [idealcopy] classic remains (slight return) ["david mack" ] [idealcopy] casting a wish into the wind [Alistair Tear ] Re: [idealcopy] An Obscure Reference?? [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] [idealcopy] durutti/classical ["ian jackson" ] [idealcopy] classical/jazz ["ian jackson" ] Re: [idealcopy] the classical, the classical... [eric719@webtv.net (Eric ] [idealcopy] off topic - burning airlines ["ian jackson" ] Re: [idealcopy] off topic - burning airlines [Paul Pietromonaco Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Classics for pleasure Holst is my recommendation, along with Bach, Satie, Debussy, Xenakis and John Cage's stuff for prepared piano. Anyone who likes Bruce's stuff should perhaps check out Xenakis! Don't like `light' classical - Offenbach, which I regard as on a par with Phil Collins. I remember falling asleep at a prom concert of some Richard Strauss piece which is likely as not an indicator that I wasn't enjoying it much. Howard ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 06:31:10 -0500 From: "squonk" Subject: [idealcopy] re: picked yeggs ////// that's all right then. i was just taking the opportunity to slag off nigel kennedy , one of my all-time pet hates. i was making a tape of early killing joke for graeme over the weekend and i was impressed how good some of it still sounded , the thought struck me then that the famous jaz coleman/nigel kennedy album of doors-covers-ina-classical-stylee thankfully sunk without trace or me hearing it. p i was not so fortunate with anne dudley's ancient and moderne avoid! as to mozart, i find much of his music, while precocious, is too young for me i far prefer bumpy's pizza or even the teletubbies (really quite astounding) theme for juvinalia ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 06:40:25 -0500 From: "squonk" Subject: [idealcopy] classic remains Now opera. Would listers like to give their opinions on this art form. musica theatre - definately missing something without the visual aspect rather like reading a screenplay with music in the background Me. I recognise it has something going for it. But as for paying xxx for a ticket & wearing a penguin suit etc to watch it...or as opposed to dressing in black and breathing second-hand smoke ah - the sacrifices we make to appreciate art Well I suppose " that's the disadvantage of not speaking a second language " i think i have previously noted the misperception that not understanding the words is nessicarilly a disadvantage i think there is much in popular culture which is enhanced by the inability understand the words ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 06:43:09 -0500 From: "david mack" Subject: [idealcopy] classic remains (slight return) beethoven and miles (all of both) travel from there maybe a smattering of ligeti if you need more dissonence (my humble recommendation) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 04:51:26 -0700 (PDT) From: kevin eden Subject: [idealcopy] ENO Anyone interested in the wider field of Eno should check out the Enoweb page as well as: http://www.fourthdoor.co.uk/eno1.html ===== kevin eden wmo, po box 112, stockport, cheshire, sk3 9fd, uk wmouk@yahoo.com http://wiremailorder.com/ "dreams that money can buy" Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 09:14:21 -0000 From: Alistair Tear Subject: [idealcopy] casting a wish into the wind > Has anyone had good or bad luck with this CD single? > Rick & Chris wrote... > >>Hi Rick I mailed that insert in the UK & got it no problem.Couldn't >>comment about things Stateside though. >> Cheers Chris Excuse me guys, what is this cd single / insert thingy?? I got Coatings a while back and don't know what you're on about....some limited edition thing ? or what? Alistair (bemused) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 14:34:10 -0000 From: "kevin alexander" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] casting a wish into the wind It was a CD sized mailorder offer for a remix of "Ambitious." As for any difficulties on either side of the pond with ordering, that I wouldn't know. Kevin-- >From: Alistair Tear >To: "Wire (E-mail)" >Subject: [idealcopy] casting a wish into the wind >Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 09:14:21 -0000 > > > Has anyone had good or bad luck with this CD single? > > > Rick & Chris wrote... > > > > >>Hi Rick > I mailed that insert in the UK & got it no problem.Couldn't > >>comment about things Stateside though. > > >> Cheers Chris > >Excuse me guys, what is this cd single / insert thingy?? >I got Coatings a while back and don't know what you're >on about....some limited edition thing ? or what? > >Alistair (bemused) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 15:34:24 -0000 From: Alistair Tear Subject: [idealcopy] OT-Amadeus Chris asked >Now opera. Would listers like to give their opinions on this art form. Me. I recognise it has something going for it. But as for paying xxx for a ticket & wearing a penguin suit etc to watch Sorry if you're not handy for London but Holland Park open air theatre is a nice place to experience an opera...I saw English Chamber Opera do Donizetti's 'Lucia' a couple of years back... Susanna Harker was stunning as Lucia and there are enough great songs and set pieces to make up for the boring bits where they move the story along... It's a spectacle to see the combination of music, costume and drama. Wear whatever you like, take a picnic, some wine, it can be awsome.... ain't been back again, though A ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 18:59:36 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] An Obscure Reference?? sorry if this sounds stupid... this could be a UK/US mix-up but... was Firesign Theater part of Sesame Street? i remember Sesame Street or the Muppets had something like that or is it something else...??? ian.s.j. >From: Rick Hindman >To: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey , A Rich and >Comfortable Life with Paper >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] An Obscure Reference?? >Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 23:39:22 -0700 (PDT) > > > ::Watson! Something's afoot...and it's on the end of > > my leg:: > > __Hemlock Stones__ > > >HOLY COW! Wasn't that the Firesign Theater??? > > >RJH > >===== >----------------------------------------------------------- >"Suffering is our experience of the distance between what we >are and who we wish to become. > >-Robert Fripp >----------------------------------------------------------- >Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices >http://auctions.yahoo.com/ _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 14:39:09 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] the classical well i always hated opera. classical is sort of ok in the background but never really grabs me. i think the manager of the commitments summed up jazz perfectly...... well i have 2 classical music stories , must bore you with at least one of them; birmingham has this huge purpose-built classical venue called the symphiny hall , allegedly the best in europe. they can do things like adjust the acoustics for a different "feel" to the music , etc etc. actually i saw david byrne play there and he was really good , but generally they just book chicken-in-the-basket acts or classical. well my ex-wife used to think i was a complete philistine for not being much of a classical fan , so i did use to go along and catch up on some sleep occasionally. but i was actually keen to see this new venue , and also "wonderkid" conductor simon rattle and his CBSO . so we chose to go to see a kurt weill night , which i thought might be ok. they had about half an orchestra plus some more modern instruments and 3 singers. it started quite well with an overture , then on came the singers. we had these really expensive seats , back of the ground floor (best acoustics , you see). i think about #35 in the early 90's. and you couldn't hear a word of the singers. i couldn't believe it , you go and see dumpys rusty nuts and the soundman can work out the sound levels (er , sadly). but in this multi-million showpiece place i was sitting there and couldn't hear a thing. people were getting up and walking out all around me , we persevered but they never sorted it. "instrumental remix" i guess. my dear ex-wife wrote back for a refund and got a beautifully worded "tough shit that's life baby" response. i don't think i ever went back there actually. never did like those crowds much to be honest. my other classical music story involves leslie crowther , shakespeare and a poodle. but i think i'll save that for later. p ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 20:43:53 +0200 From: "Noorda" Subject: [idealcopy] Triskel Arts Centre Interesting announcement of an performance on thursday the 17th of May at the Triskel Arts Centre inTobin St, Cork Ireland. Pan Sonic, plus special guests Bruce Gilbert, FM Einheit and Caspar Brvtzman. Rhythmic, Dynamic, Melodic? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 16:22:07 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [idealcopy] An Obscure Reference?? On Fri, 4 May 2001, ian jackson wrote: > sorry if this sounds stupid... > this could be a UK/US mix-up but... > was Firesign Theater part of Sesame Street? That would be a very very no. Firesign Theatre were a bunch of very smart, often very stoned folks who did radio-style comedy in the late sixties and early seventies. Unlike most comedy records, which are boring once you know all the jokes, the FT's attention to sonic detail (often several voices at once) made relistening a pleasure. - --Jeff Jeffrey Norman, Posemodernist University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee Dept. of Mumblish & Competitive Obliterature http://www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 22:46:05 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] the classical, the classical... Chris wrote :- (re two emails titled Mozart.../Amadeus) although as you have mentioned before we have remarkably similar musical tastes, >i'm not sure i have, (could it have been ian grant?) but forgive me if i'm wrong, actually...even if it wasn't me i suspect we do have similar tastes! As a mainstream flick I hope it got some people who watched it & were never interested or exposed to classical music interested. >quite right... it got ME interested, which, within the constraints of the Hollywood system, i suppose is an unusually positive thing. but i AM getting increasingly interested in instrumental classical and jazz music, forms that i have previously despised for one reason or another >i should (dis)qualify my statement from above by stating that i've been a big fan of Satie's 'Gnossienne 1 - 6' and 'Gymnopedie 1 - 3' plus other pieces, Mozart's 'Eine Kleine Nachtmusik', 'Serenade No.6', and 'Divertimenti For Strings', and to a lesser extent, some Charles Ives, Aaron Copland and the more obvious avant-garde composers for some time now. my exposure to classical and jazz music was limited by ignorance, fear, loathing, all the usual stuff and, judging by the responses from other listees, it's a pretty typical story. i'd like to take the opportunity to thank everyone (and i mean everyone!) for all the pointers towards the good stuff in both forms. maybe curiosity doesn't always kill...there must be some opera that i can listen to for more than two minutes... regards to all, ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 22:48:23 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] G.B.V. again... From: "Frank J|rgen Wvrner" Guided by Voices - Isolation Drills >so come on Frank, give us G.B.V. fans the lowdown on the new one!! cheers, ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 22:56:52 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] durutti/classical From: paul c.d. - however, if anyone has captured the sheer beauty of operatic singing and put it within a context idealcopy listers can appreciate, it's vini reilly (durutti column). check out the albums from 1986 to the present, in which he samples the voices and places them alongside his gorgeous melancholic guitar work. stunningly brilliant! >thanks for all the tips re the classical (the classical) paul, i stopped buying Durutti Column after 'Circuses and Bread' (was it?) so i'll try to hear this stuff sometime. cheers, ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 22:53:19 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] classical/jazz From: MarkBursa@aol.com Also there is a huge variation in the quality of performances and recordings - you can be turned on or off a piece by the conductor's interpretation or the orchestra's ability to express itself (generally poor - most orchestral musicians are journeyman hacks who have to be told/coaxed/coerced/bullied etc how to play...) >absolutely, i was aware of the 'quality' aspect of classical recordings. i work with a guy who has just acquired an M.A. in Music and i'm doing my best to find out as much as i can about this. As for Jazz, i've never really got past the obvious classic stuff (Miles Davis/Coltrane etc). >i suspect my experience is similar to yours and lots of others with jazz. heard bits of Roland Kirk, Dolphy, Coltrane, Coleman, etc, etc, at other people's places. whilst appreciating the 'noise', i couldn't take it seriously at the time (10 - 15 years ago, maybe 'maturity' has something to do with it...) and wondered if it was just 'affectation' on my friends' part eg., 'Oh, man, just listen to the inflection there...niiiiiiiiice' i even had tapes of Basie and Ellington at one time, but it just wasn't happening. Ditto. Just the most appalling racket. All Opera is vile;-) >Ay, i know you and you cannot sing, i said, 'that's nothing, you should hear me play pianner'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 15:38:37 -0700 (PDT) From: eric719@webtv.net (Eric Strang) Subject: Re: [idealcopy] the classical, the classical... <> You might want to check out Henryk Gorecki's Symphony No. 3 with vocals by Dawn Upshaw. It's a very dark, very slow piece of work. I normally can't stand opera but find this CD very listenable. Eric ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 23:48:40 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] off topic - burning airlines message received from mail order company re new releases... Burning Airlines - Identikit lp/cd 2nd lp from the De Soto label. perfect blend of 80's post-punk Gang of 4 and Wire and adding dubby production and dysfunctional blues guitar. sounds like it could be worth checking out. ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 00:48:51 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Bruce Gilbert in Ireland w/ Pan Sonic May 17th Picked up a copy of The Wire today which for some reason I've found to be very depressing reading. Perhaps its because the article on Touch coincides with the first release on that label I've heard which bores me? (Biosphere) Or is it because David Keenan feels the need to compare Bardo Pond's highly individual vocalist Isobel Sollenberger to both Kim Gordon and Patti Smith (neither of whom she sounds anything like really and neither of whom sound that similar to each other). Or is it just because there is so much happening sonically that I'm approaching information meltdown and just need to escape from listening to anything 'new' for a few months? Anyway there's an advert for a series of happenings at Triskel Arts Centre in Cork Ireland 00 353 21 4272022 triskel@iol.ie On May 17th they've got Pan Sonic with Bruce Gilbert, FM Einheit & Caspar Brotzmann Should be good... "What is the point of laptops live?" Kevin Drumm (supporting Tortoise) gave a perfectly loud headcleaning apocalyptic answer to this pointless question last night. An empty stage made a mockery of the lame spectacle of most contemporary rock bands. It was an awesome sound. Lock up your hats! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 02:55:46 +0200 From: "Jan J Noorda" Subject: [idealcopy] Classical It was probably more then 10 years ago I was reading an interview with Colin and he was telling about other kind of musical art-forms. He told he liked at that moment the Arvo Paert's Tabula Rasa. That particular example was to me an introduction to contempary classical music. Later I realised that mr Paert is probably not a good example for contemporary classical music. His music reaches to Medieval times or with other words a deep religious approach. Later I listened to Gorecki's third also, the fantastic cello's in the beginning. Alfred Schnittke, Gubaidolina, Ustvolskaya, Shostakovich, Cage, Zimmermann, Xenakis, Reich, Glass, LaMonteYoung, Schoenberg, Berg, Weber, Eno etc.All these were a kind of contemporary's I have no idea if Colin is still listening classical music, but an influence is always there. I have to thank him for dropping a name. It was fun to me starting to listen to these kinds of output. Maybe a nice question for our subscribers. If our Wire-men would choose for a composer, who is not living anymore. Which one would they choose. Bruce maybe Yancu Dumitrescu, but I think this Romanian composer is still living. Cage maybe. Because creating space for sounds from the street, nature or whatever in his composition. On the other hand I think Bruce is not a taoist. Graham, I think he likes the Russians, not the romantic ones. Shostakovich preludes and Fugas. Schnittke. Or maybe SIbelius, Grieg or whatever. The composers from the far north, his homeplace at the moment. Rune Lindblad probably, but he was an electronic composer. Colin. Paert of course he mentioned it. Giora Feidman, Giya Kancheli. but they are all living. Giora Feidman. What do you think of him giluz? Or maybe the real Classsics Bach, Beethoven, Mozart. Igor Strawinsky? Robert. It's real hard. Camille Saint-Saens, Steve Reich's Music for drumming, but mr Reich is still living. Classic remains alone on piano ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 20:00:15 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: [idealcopy] off topic - burning airlines >message received from mail order company >re new releases... > >Burning Airlines - Identikit lp/cd >2nd lp from the De Soto label. >perfect blend of 80's post-punk >Gang of 4 and Wire and adding dubby >production and dysfunctional blues >guitar. > >sounds like it could be worth checking out. > Well, of course. (^_^) You know that they're basically the main singer/songwriter/guitarist from Jawbox, right? I liked their first album, Mission:Control. It wasn't quite as good as the last couple of Jawbox albums, but it was pretty much better than anything else that was came out that year. And they're a great live band. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 20:12:12 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: [idealcopy] off topic - burning airlines >anything else that was came out that year. And they're a great live "That was came out that year"? What kind of English am I speaking? Maybe I should try this sleep thing I keep hearing about. (^_^) Anyway, it should be "anything else that came out that year". Back to grammar school, Paul ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #139 *******************************