From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #130 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Friday, April 27 2001 Volume 04 : Number 130 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] More reductionism [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Metal [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] More reductionism [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] attn: U.S. Fall fans [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Even me. [timrobinson@cwcom.net] [idealcopy] Re: prefab buckmeister fuller tract housing [ray (o) (mac ] [idealcopy] cruciality, go ahead ["ian jackson" ] [idealcopy] OT: REM/Nirvana [Michael Flaherty ] Re: [idealcopy] but teacher... [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Guitar bands for the 80s (in pop?) [PaulRabjohn@aol.] Re: [idealcopy] Re: [OT] Pixies live [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] L.F.K./Bows [Aaron Mandel ] Re: [idealcopy] OT: REM/Nirvana [HeySean@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OT: REM/Nirvana [Miles Goosens ] Re: [idealcopy] OT: REM/Nirvana [fernando ] [idealcopy] Mack Lift to Mudhoney International [=?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20] [idealcopy] (Ain't No) Planet of Sound? [=?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?] Re: [idealcopy] OT: REM/Nirvana ["Bryan Olson" ] Re: [idealcopy] (Ain't No) Planet of Sound? ["Bryan Olson" but their rise to chart acceptance and gradual drift toward >>quieter numbers definitely is making people forget R.E.M. > >you're quite right j, i totally forgot about them, >they were crucial in this respect and i loved them >at the time (up to 'Automatic...'?) >> REM were part of another thing altogether - the 60s-inspired Paisley Underground thing which was parallel to US punk in the early '80s - see also Rain Parade, Dream Syndicate, Long Ryders, Green on Red etc. First two Dream Syndicate (Days if Wine and Roses and Medicine Show) and first two Rain Parade (Emergency third Rail Power Trip and Explosions in the glass palace) are classics of the genre, and still sound very good today. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 06:47:43 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Metal Robert, << Those Belgians are always pulling that! Why don't they get their own language and stop fooling us, or at least get their own accents like we Americans did to distinguish ourselves from the Brits. >> Well half of them have - it's called Flemish, which is onomatopoeic ;-) Bunch of walloons. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 07:00:01 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] More reductionism John, << I think that Flipper etc suffered from relationship probs between US and UK indie labels - it took a lot of em a long time to realise that promoting records was not nec a bad thing. Not that some bands were ever going to sell on the same level as Pixies, D Jr etc. too noisy/rude/abstract. Pixies, D Jr had songs that could be played in night clubs.<< I think part of the problem was that the 80s US punk was seen as somewhat retrogressive in the UK - we'd been through punk in 77 and that had degenerated into crap like Oi bands etc. Music had moved on (much of it in an admittedly 60s retro direction) but that somehow seemed fresher than US shouty thrash punk. DJr, Husker, Pixies etc had something distinctive about their sound which made them stand out from the crowd. It was good to have something that blew away the cobwebs while not sounding hackneyed... I remember hearing Husker Du's Makes no sense at all on Peel one night and it was a revelation - I'd only previously heard Land Speed Record, so had discounted them as 100,000mph thrash... >>However, why Black Flag weren't as pop in the uk as they could have been? They played over here with H Rollins as a skinhead which got misinterpreted. They had the song White Minority remember? >> One word. Skrewdriver. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 07:02:51 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] attn: U.S. Fall fans Jeff, << you can get it through Action Records (www.action-records.co.uk) >> I would most thoroughly recommend Action as probably the most professional specialist record shop in the UK. I've known Gordon (who owns the business) for 20 years - he started on a market stall in Blackpool before moving to Preston. If you're trying to find something obscure, check them out... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 12:16:11 +0100 From: timrobinson@cwcom.net Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Even me. Graeme wrote >>>Tim Wrote >>>>>The Surgeon remix is great too, just an expansive >, lush, all-enveloping >wall of sound that I think even Mr Rowland would >enjoy. > >I do enjoy it and the Kevin Shields remix too. Best >Surgeon track I've heard but he did a good mix for >Peel at one point. > >Why even me? I've read enough of your stuff to know your music tastes are pretty different to mine and you often trash things that I like (which is fair enough of course). I acually thought the Surgeon track might be a bit too fluffy and ambient-lite for your tastes. Obviously not. Sorry! >A bit patronising. Not as much as your "Have you ever *heard* of the Pixies???" !! But it was a bit presumptious I suppose. I thought Mogwai would be a bit too 'Indie-schmindie-NME-faves' for your liking, and you might have passed over that CD in a shop. I mean as much as I like Kevin Sheilds I wouldn't buy a Hurricane #1 CD just to hear his remix! >Kevin Shields and Mogwai and Surgeaon are hardly as >dire as Depeche Mode! Aaargh! You're not going to let this Depeche Mode thing go are you? :) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 22:09:58 -0400 From: ray (o) (mac ) Subject: [idealcopy] Re: prefab buckmeister fuller tract housing i have rather adored *every* prefab sprout release, tho am least enamoured of the first , swoon, and last, andromeda heits prisoner of the past was a standout single, but electric guitars was , imo, the weakest single ever from paddy jordon, the comeback took a while to take hold, but ii find it brilliant in an entirely overblown fashion as for bucky f - i just hadn't thought of him in some time g.i. gurdief anyone? wilhelm reich orgone pop delicacy r-o-m ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 08:19:42 -0000 From: Alistair Tear Subject: [idealcopy] Electric Ballroom This may be of some interest... Last night's local London tv news carried a piece on the closure of the Electric Ballroom in Camden Town to make way for the redevelopment of the tube station... This was, of course, the venue for the unique performance which became 'Document & Eyewitness'... The news item had film of Tom Tom Club rehearsing for their gig and a short interview with Tina Weymouth who is looking good btw and seemed to have fonder memories of the Roundhouse, just up the road... Alistair ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 15:03:49 +0200 From: "\"Martin \\\"Bernd\\\" Schmeil\"" Subject: [idealcopy] Ron Johnson Recs. / BogShed Starting with the C86 compilation I really digged those jon johnson style bands (especially early stump - saw them even live and stole some souveniers from backstage, ie. some shit the vocalist drawed on notepapers - and bogshed who are still one of my favourites). for bogshed: i always tried to get in touch with them to figure out what it is about the announced (on excellent girl 7") stop revolving EP - maybe just a joke about splitting up and I also had the idea to release a complete discography 2xCD. for the latter i'm happy that I didn't succeed, because i have no distro. anyways, is there something post bogshed (i have one lp called nose of the king or something), has the bass player and vocalist been on other bands? BTW - BogSheds Brutal LP is worth buying for the sleeve alone. - - tB! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 10:16:10 -0400 From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: [OT] Pixies live >anyway, the pixies played an extraordinary set, closing with a surf >version of "wave of mutilation" and the classic "where is my mind?" >simply by playing their set in alphabetical order! who else would >(could) do something like that? :o) Pere Ubu did exactly that on their 25 anniversary tour last year - playing all the songs A-Z (ah! here's the Wire reference!), closing with "Winter in the firelands" and the brilliant version of "Worlds in Collision"! Syarzhuk Be healthy, stay wealthy... Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://www.belmusic.net _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 10:55:14 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Kitchens of Distinction because , against stiff competition , they probably had the most boring indie band name of all time. i think their main claim to fame was the number of FX pedals they used on stage , the guitarist had about 50 apparently. er , sorry but i thought they were a little dull. just like ride , slowdive , chapterhouse and all the others. lush got better later. wasn't the great thing about the pixies that they were an alternative to what was a tedious british "scene" at the time? p ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 10:29:32 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Kitchens of Distinction At 10:55 AM 4/27/2001 -0400, PaulRabjohn@aol.com wrote: >because , against stiff competition , they probably had the most boring >indie band name of all time. I always liked the name - sort of a commentary on ye olde bright shiny sterile suburban modernity, I thought. >er , sorry but i thought they were a little dull. just like ride , slowdive >, chapterhouse and all the others. lush got better later. Of course I'm coming from a very positive view of KoD, but this statement seems to underscore the dangers of lumping a bunch of bands together -- I'll happily consign Ride, Chapterhouse, Lush, and others to the shoegazing dustbin, but to these ears, KoD's enormous shimmering guitar waves gave them a sound that distinguished them from their contemporaries. I'll also single out Curve as another band that a sound that stood apart from those other bands, perhaps because of the mitigating factor of their Siouxsie/goth influence. Their "Fait Accompli" was one of the last decade's best singles. I'll even go so far to say that I prefer Kitchens of Distinction to My Bloody Valentine -- I'm a huge fan of guitar noise drones, but MBV has never failed to put me to sleep, and this is after years of trying to fathom what other people see in them. I like what people have said about MBV far more than I like the actual music. (See also Guided By Voices.) later, listowner Miles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 11:32:52 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: prefab buckmeister fuller tract housing << as for bucky f - i just hadn't thought of him in some time >> I was at the Henry Ford museum in Detroit a year or so ago,a nd they were rebuilding an original Dymaxion house. Should be done by now. Architecturally, Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 11:34:44 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Electric Ballroom << This may be of some interest... Last night's local London tv news carried a piece on the closure of the Electric Ballroom in Camden Town to make way for the redevelopment of the tube station... This was, of course, the venue for the unique performance which became 'Document & Eyewitness'... >> Shame. Bit of a toilet, but I saw some good gigs there - Husker Du, The Fall (supported by the Smiths), Nick Cave....not been for a while though! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 13:19:44 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Ex Pixies Joker Witness In a message dated 24/04/01 22:36:30 GMT Daylight Time, crackedmachine@yahoo.co.uk writes: > Apparently his > manager has hinted that if the money is right (like > millions of dollars!) a Pixies reunion is not entirely > out of the question //////////hmmmmm. much the same as TG , the band was revolving around the relationship between 2 members. and for all the "artistic differences" talk , both bands split because that relationship split. i've seen kim deal slag frankie baby off so many times its hard to imagine she'd be up for it. mind you , seeing how the amps did......... p ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 13:23:48 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] off topic - playlists In a message dated 25/04/01 12:34:03 GMT Daylight Time, iansjackson@hotmail.com writes: > any 3 Johns fans out there?? found myself singing 'Sold Down The River'..... > after the Arsenal match on Saturday........ > > ////// a long time ago i saw the three johns/poison girls/blyth power at the electric ballroom. great gig , though i'd say the 3J's were the worst band of the 3 although they were the nominal headliners. bit samey , but SDTR and "english white boy engineer" were 2 great singles. p ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 13:30:31 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Bootleg Orbital Kitchens In a message dated 25/04/01 17:45:30 GMT Daylight Time, MarkBursa@aol.com writes: > << Lightning Seeds. No. No. No. > > Not edgy? Well OK. But excellent indie pop to be played loud. > >> > > Exactly. Nice indie. Made by a stalwart of Nice New Wave. > > Nice. > > Mark > ////////////and then you progress onto nice pop. a perfect career plan for the aspiring young scouse punk rocker. boy he must have made some cash. p ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 19:05:34 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: prefab buckmeister fuller tract housing mark wrote :- >I was at the Henry Ford museum in Detroit a year or so ago,and they were >rebuilding an original Dymaxion house. Should be done by now. i want to live in one... ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 18:09:02 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] L.F.K./Bows charles wrote :- Definately one of the underrated bands of the nineties. And lots of Prog influence! I liked their second album, Valentino... Too Pure was a definately label of Quality. what are they doing now? charles, this came about because someone ( i think, fernando) on the list mentioned the old L.F.K. singer's new outfit, BOWS. i only have their first couple of singles (which are great), but i think i'm correct in saying that all BOWS releases have been on TOO PURE so far. of course, when i wrote the initial email re L.F.K., i forgot to mention 'Valentino' which i have probably played a lot more than the 'Amelia' lp!! BOWS is quite different to L.F.K., in that the singer (can't remember the guy's name, anybody ?) doesn't always sing on each track and it's far more 'studio' based than L.F.K., (hence the 'lushness' mentioned in other emails), BOWS stuff puts me in mind of My Bloody Valentine fed on a diet of the first two Blue Nile lp's. that might give you some idea, then again it could be misleading!! i dunno. L.F.K. came to my attention with the Mark Smith collaboration, what was it again? ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 18:50:55 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] cruciality, go ahead mark wrote :- REM were part of another thing altogether - i get what your saying mark, but actually the context of this thread doesn't apply to the 'Paisley Underground' here... i'm not being sarcastic or anything but the point was, that those 'crucial 5, 6, now, er, 10 bands' squeezed open the doors of the mainstream market, R.E.M. being at the sharp end of that particular avenue of US guitar bands of the time, the rest of whom, i have to say, never touched me in the way that Stipe & Co. did. respect, ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 13:37:57 -0500 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] OT: REM/Nirvana >From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey >Yes on these - but their rise to chart acceptance and gradual drift toward >quieter numbers definitely is making people forget R.E.M.: they were >there, and they were among the first bands with those above to build the >U.S. indie/college town circuit. (And hey - the Replacements too!) During the early 90s every guitar band from the 80s was billed as a big influence on Nirvana, which I always found somewhat amusing and somewhat annoying. But then, Kurt did listen to a lot of that stuff. But, beyond their importance in building a circuit, REM was, along w/ Sonic Youth and a few others, among those that Kurt saved his highest praise for. I always thought I heard a lot of Replacements in there, but then, having been in Mpls. in the late 70s and 80s, perhaps it's just in my ears. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 15:04:22 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] but teacher... In a message dated 26/04/01 02:06:56 GMT Daylight Time, iansjackson@hotmail.com writes: > graeme, > re - the Stranglers email. > > 3 doesn't go into 128 exactly, but it goes... > further on down the line, i'd like to read a special > missive on J.J.'s 'Euroman Cometh', > if thats at all possible. > > ///////// well i was never a huge stranglers fan but i grew up with a brother who worshipped them . so sadly i could still probably sing along with all of "euroman" if forced. not sure i'd want to though , not exactly a classic. guitar by brian james as i recall. i think the triumph bonneville got all the best lines. .......and you may be right graeme that there were alien forces at work on the meninblack album. i mean it was so bad that you lost the will to live well before the end of side 2 , maybe that's when the little green men were going to invade. sadly they chose an album with such little appeal that the plan was foiled. i think we should be relieved. i don't actually think i own a stranglers album. but if i had to buy one it would definitely be "black and white" , by far their peak. p "and like your wind i'm gone" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 15:10:20 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Guitar bands for the 80s (in pop?) In a message dated 24/04/01 01:20:14 GMT Daylight Time, CHRISWIRE@aol.com writes: > Talking of the Leeds area I think"Red Lorry Yellow Lorry" deserves a > seperate e-mail.Although Paul Rabjohn ( I think) did give them a passing > mention many months ago, I still rate their"Paint Your Wagon" album a major > place in my collection. > Rips your head off when you're in the right mood. > //////////// i may have mentioned them but they never really did it for me. like a lot of division 2 goth acts (see also play dead , danse society , gene loves jezebel , skeletal family) they were sort of good live but nothing original enough to make a lasting impression. to me RLYL were sort of sisters meet killing joke. i saw them twice , once with xmal deutschland and once with the batfish boys ; both times the other band was way better. hey , i don't think i've managed to sneak the batfish boys in here before.......... funny how 50% of all goth bands come from leeds though. p ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 15:23:01 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: [OT] Pixies live In a message dated 26/04/01 10:02:02 GMT Daylight Time, johnroberts_stats@yahoo.com writes: > Pixies were supporting T Muses at Burberries in > Birmingham when I saw em! I can remember seeing > Pixies five times off of the top of my head: twice in > Leicester at the uni (with Wolfgang Press support) /////////// i saw the pixies/wolfies at the birmingham hummingbird on that tour ; amazing gig. the other one i saw was at the dreaded aston villa leisure centre on the bossanova tour. they were still good , but playing an enormous badminton court is really not the idea guys. p ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 15:40:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [idealcopy] L.F.K./Bows On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, ian jackson wrote: > BOWS is quite different to L.F.K., in that the singer (can't remember > the guy's name, anybody ?) doesn't always sing on each track and it's > far more 'studio' based than L.F.K. Luke Sutherland. i didn't like Bows' first album much for exactly that reason; the music was far less distinctive without him. the first LFK i heard was "Hands And Lips" off Valentino, and at the time some faulty wiring was making the lights in the radio station flicker madly. now i've always thought of harsh, intermittent lighting when i hear their music, and it's been quite appropriate. a ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 16:06:19 EDT From: HeySean@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: REM/Nirvana well unfortunately what Kurt was REALLY listening to was a voice that said "eat your shotgun barrel, Kurt" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 16:09:11 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: REM/Nirvana At 01:37 PM 4/27/2001 -0500, Michael Flaherty wrote: >I always thought I heard a lot of Replacements in there, but then, having >been in Mpls. in the late 70s and 80s, perhaps it's just in my ears. Nope. My first thought after listening to NEVERMIND was "This is the great album that the Replacements never made." later, listowner Miles, who isn't gonna go into his opposition to the deification of the 'Mats, though he liked 'em a lot ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 14:31:52 -0700 From: fernando Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: REM/Nirvana Although I think that Nevermind is a bit polished for the Replacements that I like (and perhaps compared to other Nirvana), it is definitely something that I thought at the time... The Replacements deserve this... perhaps with PLEASE TO MEET ME, which is a fantastic album (and I prefer it to Nevermind). oh well... things that happen. - -fernando At 02:09 PM 4/27/2001, Miles Goosens wrote: >At 01:37 PM 4/27/2001 -0500, Michael Flaherty wrote: > >I always thought I heard a lot of Replacements in there, but then, having > >been in Mpls. in the late 70s and 80s, perhaps it's just in my ears. > >Nope. My first thought after listening to NEVERMIND was "This is the >great album that the Replacements never made." > >later, > >listowner Miles, >who isn't gonna go into >his opposition to the >deification of the 'Mats, >though he liked 'em a lot ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 00:11:29 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Mack Lift to Mudhoney International Ian>>>>i actually saw them, i think, inbetween Come On Pilgrim and S.R., with Throwing Muses (International, M/cr) This refers to a now defunct Manchester venue noted for its very low temperature and gangs of bored kids hanging about outside. It was somewhere around the Dickenson Rd, Rusholme area, and closed it'd doors before I moved to the city. I did travel over from Liverpool to hear a few gigs there. The first time I got lost and walked into a newsagent to ask the way and who should walk in at exactly the same time to ask exactly the same question but Steve Mack of That Petrol Emotion. He was driving and we were on foot so he offered us a lift to the venue where Mudhoney were playing. Later that evening he got up to a fair old bit of stage diving. The first time I ever saw someone stage dive was at a That Petrol Emotion gig in London. The crowd parted - THUNK! I laughed. I used to see them quite a bit and they always got me dancing like crazy, but better than the Pixies? Nah, but I liked them better than the Undertones - more menace and O'Gormann's Beefheart licks plus vastly increased drum power! OK, so they never topped Teenage Kicks, but Manic Pop Thrill is way better than any Undertones album! And Scumsurfin' was a great song later on. Getting their very poppy Cellophane single blacklisted by the BBC for commenting on the ongoing N Ireland conflicts ("I can only find the murder machine") was a bit more subversive than anything Depeche Mode managed in the eighties. I also bought every Three Johns album and still love Death Of The European which I recall being in Peel's Festive 50 the same year as TPE's arguably finest moment V2. One of the 3 Johns (Hyatt I think) is now an art professor at the former Manchester Polytechnic and I went to an exhibition of his paintings which were quite nice and oily dense (see covers of the Demonocracy & World By Storm albums for an idea). Big mouth, open wiiiiide!!! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 00:12:48 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] (Ain't No) Planet of Sound? Paul >>>>The only quibble I have with the >B-sides collection is there was one A-side that was different than the album version (the original "Planet Of Sound") Having all the 4AD 12" singles, I don't recall 'Planet of Sound' having any discernable difference to the album version, aside from the louder and more detailed sound that wider grooves allow. There was an inferior live take of 'Planet of Sound' on the 'Alec Eiffel' 12". What a great track though! That band knew how to do 'primal scream' in the true sense of the phrase (unlike the pixie faerie type Creation oldboy band who took that deceptive moniquer, being the kind of outfit who think that a pair of leather trousers will make them 'rock' - see also Depeche Mode ho ho!). However 'Dig For Fire', 'Gigantic' and 'River Euphrates' were all rerecorded (by Gil Norton) for single releases. These are all slightly denser than the album versions, and are well worth hearing! Ian>>>>'Levitate Me' was the first thing i ever heard, and it was one of 'those' musical moments for me, it simply blew me away. For what it's worth, I was similarly 'Blown Away' (good song!) when I heard Pixies on Peel and 'Caribou' was the song. I think he played most of the first album except the 3 more lyrically risque tracks (Nimrod's Son, Holiday Song, I've Been Tired) which convinced me it was pretty damn essential. No one did vicious screaming teen lust songs better. The switch to UFO concerns later on was also interesting. Joey Santiago had great leads and a nice beer can technique to his twang. After Pilgrim I bought all their records during the first week of release. They still sound great to me! Throwing Muses were better known than Pixies in the UK initially, but Peel only played one song of theirs that wasn't sung by Tanya Donelly as I recall, because Kristin Hersh's voice spooked him out! The 8 songs on 'Come On Pilgrim' were cut from a tape Pixies sent to Ivo which also included early takes of Dig For Fire (first song they wrote or so I read somewhere), Here Comes Your Man, Subacultcha, Dig For Fire, Rock A My Soul (which appeared on a 7" freebie with Sounds weakly), Break My Body and one other song... It's been bugging me for years - does anyone know what the other song was? My guess is that it might have been 'Oh My Golly!' as Black Francis abandoned Spanish lyrics later on as his Puerto Rican stint faded from memory (Yardbirds covers not withstanding) so I'd guess that this was one of the earliest 'Surfer Rosa' songs. Later on Peel played the whole of 'Trompe Le Monde' in the week prior to its release, interspersed with a long Black Francis phone interview. Actually, they also did 'Motorway To Roswell' and 'Palace of the Brine' for their last Peel session (same one that gave us 'Subacultcha' and 'Letter To Memphis'), but the album versions were much better which might explain the omission from the imaginatively titled 'At the BBC' CD. Early UK issues of Doolittle & Bossanova came with nicely designed 12"x12" picture / lyric books. 4AD really did that band proud. About a year ago, I read an interview with the guy who runs Beggars Banquet (4AD is funded by them now), where he tried to take the credit for signing Pixies, the cheeky son of a mofo! I wonder what Ivo thought of that? Ian>>>>Pixies, Husker Du, Big Black, Sonic Youth and Dinosaur (Jr), all, essentially, rock-based bands, but putting a new twist/edge/slant on the face of that particular genre. One very important aspect of these North American bands is that they all took rock to noisier extremes... More distortion! More drone!... Like the US hardcore thing, No Wave, Swans, Live Skull, Pussy Galore, Ut, Band of Susans, Butthole Surfers, BALL, Thin White Rope, Brainiac, Slint, Rodan, Nomeansno, Killdozer, Jesus Lizard, Steelpole Bathtub, Hammerhead, Slug, Blind Idiot God, Fugazi, etc, etc. Nirvana also did this to some extent (see Endless Nameless, Beeswax, Milk It, Tourette's, and especially Kurt Cobain's tortured guitar peels accompanying William Burroughs reading a chapter from 'Exterminator' - 'The Priest They Called Him'). In fact before they are summarily dismissed as Pixies ripoffs (which isn't entirely fair) I think Nirvana pushed out to noisier sonic extremes than Pixies... Nirvana were as much influenced by the Beatles, Killing Joke, Black Sabbath, Big Black, Black Flag, Flipper, Melvins, Butthole Surfers, Wipers, Half Japanese... etc. etc. Like Sonic Youth in the late eighties, Pixies were one of those rare bands deserving of their 'media darling' status. It's a shame that it wasn't Pixies who covered 'Mannequin' on 'Whore' instead of Lush! All that 'shogaze' fluff (not including MBV in that dubious distinction of course) was where the rot set in... watering down influences instead of taking them to further extremes became the norm... by the time the rotten chicken corpse of Britpop was being dissected on the slab of the rock pops weaklies it was clear that they deserved nothing better than total annihilation (two down, one to go). But no sooner have they lost their heads, than hydra like, boring glossy monthlies spring up twofold (to fold) to take their place in the toilet!!! ((((Sounds never died... it just dumbed down into Kerrang! Melody Maker died but it's vital organs had already been transplanted into Uncut and Vox, which mercifully copped it.)))) One thing that Wire and Pixies have in common is that whenever another band blatantly cops their chops, they fail so utterly to evoke the magic that either of them have. Nirvana were influenced by Pixies, but in a similar way to how Loop were influenced by Wire and Can and not in the way useless diluters Elastica and Menswear were. Like Pixies records, I bought the long awaited and much delayed follow up to 'Bleach' the week it was released. I must say I was quite surprised at first when I found myself playing it more than 'Trompe Le Monde'. I think the only Wire album I bought the very week it hit the shops was 'A Bell Is A Cup'! I think it was over a year before I picked up 'The First Letter' as I just didn't like 'So and Slow it grows' at all (it seemed bland and middle-aged and just too polite to me at the time), but for some reason I felt instinctively that there was something very wrong about the way that Robert had disappeared from the picture, although at the time I had no idea what the reasons for his departure were. Like two guys who shook their heads! Graeme (Pixies 'Bossanova' currently rotating) ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 16:53:13 -0700 From: "Bryan Olson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: REM/Nirvana Ouch! That's harsh! but true. - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 1:06 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: REM/Nirvana > well unfortunately what Kurt was REALLY listening to was a voice that said > "eat your shotgun barrel, Kurt" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 16:59:32 -0700 From: "Bryan Olson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] (Ain't No) Planet of Sound? > Throwing Muses were better known than Pixies in the UK > initially, but Peel only played one song of theirs > that wasn't sung by Tanya Donelly as I recall, because > Kristin Hersh's voice spooked him out! Or did her voice freak him out because she claimed she wrote songs to exorcise the voices in her head? I really enjoy TM, all the same. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 01:08:45 +0100 From: "they.wait" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Mack Lift to Mudhoney International Odd that no-one has mentioned that they used to cover Mannequin live. they wait. > From: Graeme Rowland > Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 00:11:29 +0100 (BST) > To: idealcopy@smoe.org > Subject: [idealcopy] Mack Lift to Mudhoney International > > Ian>>>>i actually saw them, i think, inbetween Come On > Pilgrim and S.R., with Throwing Muses (International, > M/cr) > > This refers to a now defunct Manchester venue noted > for its very low temperature and gangs of bored kids > hanging about outside. It was somewhere around the > Dickenson Rd, Rusholme area, and closed it'd doors > before I moved to the city. > > I did travel over from Liverpool to hear a few gigs > there. The first time I got lost and walked into a > newsagent to ask the way and who should walk in at > exactly the same time to ask exactly the same question > but Steve Mack of That Petrol Emotion. He was driving > and we were on foot so he offered us a lift to the > venue where Mudhoney were playing. > > Later that evening he got up to a fair old bit of > stage diving. > > The first time I ever saw someone stage dive was at a > That Petrol Emotion gig in London. The crowd parted - > THUNK! I laughed. I used to see them quite a bit and > they always got me dancing like crazy, but better than > the Pixies? > > Nah, but I liked them better than the Undertones - > more menace and O'Gormann's Beefheart licks plus > vastly increased drum power! OK, so they never topped > Teenage Kicks, but Manic Pop Thrill is way better than > any Undertones album! And Scumsurfin' was a great song > later on. > > Getting their very poppy Cellophane single blacklisted > by the BBC for commenting on the ongoing N Ireland > conflicts ("I can only find the murder machine") was a > bit more subversive than anything Depeche Mode managed > in the eighties. > > I also bought every Three Johns album and still love > Death Of The European which I recall being in Peel's > Festive 50 the same year as TPE's arguably finest > moment V2. > > One of the 3 Johns (Hyatt I think) is now an art > professor at the former Manchester Polytechnic and I > went to an exhibition of his paintings which were > quite nice and oily dense (see covers of the > Demonocracy & World By Storm albums for an idea). > > Big mouth, open wiiiiide!!! > Graeme > > ===== > Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine > http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine > > "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert > Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk > or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 17:41:36 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] (Ain't No) Planet of Sound? >there was one A-side that was >different than the album version (the original "Planet >Of Sound") > >Having all the 4AD 12" singles, I don't recall 'Planet >of Sound' having any discernable difference to the >album version, aside from the louder and more detailed >sound that wider grooves allow. Nope - the CD single I have is *way* different than the album version. Instead of the "warble" tone that the vocal on the album has, my CD single version has a "distortion" tone to the vocal. I think there's less Theremin in the mix too. Probably an early mix, I'm guessing. I can check the edition - I think it might have been the regular 4.A.D. single, but I picked up a lot of weird Pixies stuff, so I'll have to go home and look. It's quite possibly Canadian - I have a few of those singles. I'll dig this CD up at home (pardon the pun!) and make sure I'm not imagining things. (Maybe even upload it somewhere???) >However 'Dig For Fire', 'Gigantic' and 'River >Euphrates' were all rerecorded (by Gil Norton) for >single releases. These are all slightly denser than >the album versions, and are well worth hearing! > Just in case anybody is keeping score at home, you *do* get the re-recorded version of River Euphrates on the Complete B-Sides CD. Frank Black makes note of it specifically in his liner notes. Shame that you don't get the reworked Gigantic, though. >I think he played most of the first >album except the 3 more lyrically risque tracks >(Nimrod's Son, Holiday Song, I've Been Tired) >The 8 songs on 'Come On Pilgrim' were cut from a tape >Pixies sent to Ivo which also included early takes of >Dig For Fire (first song they wrote or so I read >somewhere), Here Comes Your Man, Subacultcha, Dig For >Fire, Rock A My Soul (which appeared on a 7" freebie >with Sounds weakly), Break My Body and one other >song... > >It's been bugging me for years - does anyone know what >the other song was? My guess is that it might have >been 'Oh My Golly!' as Black Francis abandoned Spanish >lyrics later on as his Puerto Rican stint faded from >memory (Yardbirds covers not withstanding) so I'd >guess that this was one of the earliest 'Surfer Rosa' >songs. According to http://www.evo.org/html/group/pixies.html Demo 86 NONPIX5 (1986): Leviate Me (demo) [R MAD709], The Holiday Song (demo) [R MAD709], I've Been Tired (demo) [R MAD709], Break My Body (demo) [R CAD803], Down To The Well (demo) [R CAD0010], Rockaway Soul (demo), I'm Amazed (demo) [R CAD803], Build High (demo) [R AD1008], In Heaven (demo), Caribou (demo) [R CAD803], Here Comes Your Man (demo) [R CAD905], Subbacultcha (demo) [R CAD1014], Vamos (demo) [R MAD709], Broken Face (demo) [R CAD803], Nimrod's Son (demo) [R MAD709], Isla de Encanta (demo) [R MAD709], Ed Is Dead (demo) [R MAD709] Demo tape from '86 or '87. It would be the next logical step to release these demos, I'm thinking! (^_^) > >Throwing Muses were better known than Pixies in the UK >initially, but Peel only played one song of theirs >that wasn't sung by Tanya Donelly as I recall, because >Kristin Hersh's voice spooked him out! > Now, that's a good story. Say - where is my Throwing Muses Peel Session CD, anyway? (^_-) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 01:43:49 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Amps Paul R said //////////hmmmmm. much the same as TG , the band was revolving around the relationship between 2 members. and for all the "artistic differences" talk , both bands split because that relationship split. i've seen kim deal slag frankie baby off so many times its hard to imagine she'd be up for it. mind you , seeing how the amps did......... p I had no idea that Kim Deal & Black Francis were a couple. The Amps did quite well actually. I went to 3 of their gigs (in Liverpool, Glasgow and London) at which Brainiac supported after I put on a Brainiac headline show in Manchester. All the gigs were sold out (Liverpool was quite a small venue but the others were sizable). Frank Black plays similar size venues to similar size crowds. Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #130 *******************************