From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #128 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, April 26 2001 Volume 04 : Number 128 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] Re: [OT] Pixies live [John Roberts ] [idealcopy] Re: Bows [Ian Grant ] Re: [idealcopy] The Ex...again [John Roberts ] [idealcopy] Re: Love Songs ["ray\)\(o\)\(mac" ] [idealcopy] Re: Love Songs ["ray\)\(o\)\(mac" ] [idealcopy] [OT] Prefab Pixies in the Kitchen [Miles Goosens ] [idealcopy] That Pixie Deal [=?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= ] Re: [idealcopy] L.F.K./ Ubu ["Ian B" ] [idealcopy] Re: [OT] GBV show in Boston ["Katherine Pouliot" ] Re: [idealcopy] More reductionism ["ian jackson" ] Re: [idealcopy] O'Shea and Prefab Boards of Dome ["ian jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: [OT] Pixies live > >>i actually saw them, i think, inbetween Come On > Pilgrim and S.R., > >>with Throwing Muses (International, M/cr), suffice > to say, > >>it was a most enjoyable experience! > > this was the first time i saw either band, too. both > were equally > outstanding...if that's possible! Pixies were supporting T Muses at Burberries in Birmingham when I saw em! I can remember seeing Pixies five times off of the top of my head: twice in Leicester at the uni (with Wolfgang Press support) and later at De Montfort Hall; twice in Birmingham, the other gig being at the Irish Centre; and once at Northampton Roadmenders. > pixies played an > extraordinary set, closing with a surf version of > "wave of mutilation" and > the classic "where is my mind?" simply by playing > their set in alphabetical > order! who else would (could) do something like > that? :o) Pere Ubu nicked this idea off of the Pixies. I remember reading an interview with Pixies in NME years ago and they were talking about this. I hadn't even realised when I'd seen them on that tour - they also used to play the set backwards too. I have a bootleg LP of em live in Hamburg where they do the set in alphabetical order apart from Into the White which is tagged on as an encore. Cheats. John Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: 26 Apr 2001 08:58:39 -0000 From: Ian Grant Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Bows >>ig wrote:- >At the moment, I can't decide. It's a curious beast, in that it's somehow >more messy *and* more song-based than "Blush". It's also very much in >love - with itself, with life, with someone special. I shan't be filing >it next to the Codeine albums, put it that way. Actually, I take all that back. I've just listened to it again. It's absolutely bloody gorgeous. (First sign of madness, replying to your own e-mails...) Cheers, ig. ------------------------------ Date: 26 Apr 2001 09:04:08 -0000 From: Ian Grant Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Bows >>ig wrote:- >At the moment, I can't decide. It's a curious beast, in that it's somehow >more messy *and* more song-based than "Blush". It's also very much in >love - with itself, with life, with someone special. I shan't be filing >it next to the Codeine albums, put it that way. Actually, I take all that back. I've just listened to it again. It's absolutely bloody gorgeous. (First sign of madness, replying to your own e-mails...) Cheers, ig. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 03:09:19 -0700 (PDT) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Ex...again Andy > I think it's a bit of an oversight to reduce the Ex > to their politics. Well I first found them via their Spanish Revolution double single. Being of an anarchist leaning I found it exciting that such bands still existed. The first time I met them they were at Nine Mile Distrbution to negotiate having their own label distributed after the demise of Ron Johnson (also distributed by Nine Mile) and they stayed at our house. We spent a lot of time talking about squatting, anarchism and old and not so old punk bands. I've met em a couple of times since having supported them in Leamington and the conversation was pretty much the same! I know for a fact that we never discussed art! > Unlike Crass, I would argue, their music has > constantly innovated and > evolved, and their work with musicians such as Tom > Cora and Han Bennink (not > to mention much of their own work as a collective) > is strikingly layered and > passionate. You could argue that Crass's music did the same. I dont know how much Crass you've heard but their later stuff is not punk rock. Yes Sir I Will is one long free form dirge lasting 40 mins (with two notable momemts of exception), Acts of Love is an album of about 50 zen poems - just synths and voice, 10 Notes on a Summer's Day is ten, er...avant garde jazz kind of things? Not that > innovation/experimentation/improvisation are > separate > from politics, but to classify them as a "political > band" alongside, say, the > Dead Kennedys or Crass, is to overlook the music > itself. Hmmmm. I don't know how much of the Ex (or anyone else for that matter) can be considered innovative. (If that doesn't contradict my above statement!) I've heard the Tom Cora LP but didn't rate it much tbh. I'm aware of the Ex's more agarde stuff - by which I think we mean Joggers and Smoggers and the Dignity of Labour 4x7" pack stuff. But to me they're sort of agarde in the same way as Swans or Waiting for Godot i.e. irritating and repetitive - not a bad thing. I find the whole high-modernist idea that scratching guitars and banging dustbin lids = a garde ludicrous in this day and age. The futurists and dada were 100 years ago (roughly). Whatever next? Grown men buying Anti Nowhere League CDs? I think what we > come up against is a classic aesthetic argument: > that of the relation of > "form" and "content." Well there's the argument that to separate the two relies on a particular ideological position. To aesthetically contemplate something is something I'd have thought the Ex would be 'against'. Bloody bourgeois pov. 8-) 'Kant conformism' to quote a certain indie hit of yesteryear. Or as Vic Godard once wrote - 'The language we use is what we want? Does it not project the false? The Subject to Object journey means that a word loses course'. (I should warn you that I teach Critical Theory to English students who are all aesthetes and don't understand why they've got this bloke telling them that 'art and literature' don't exist either.) John Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 06:28:14 -0400 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Bootleg Orbital Kitchens If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck.....? Eric in Toronto - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of JH3 Sent: April 26, 2001 12:21 AM To: Ideal Cops Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Bootleg Orbital Kitchens >>Kitchens of Distinction were one of those bands that completely >>passed me by. Bit over-produced, slushy synths in the >>background, '80s drums etc. Not edgy enough really.... >Which Kitchens of Distinction was that then Mark? Don't recall any >slushy synths, over-production or 80s drums on any of their records. >If I wanted to hear that sort of thing I'd listen to Manscape by our >own Wire! I'm afraid Tim is right, Mark... the guitars on the Kitchens albums had so much delay on them that the overall effect *fooled* you into thinking there were "slushy synths in the background" when in fact their records hardly ever used synths at all! And you weren't the only one fooled - so many people thought they heard synths in their songs, on their last album they actually printed "no one played keyboards" in the liner notes! Not to nitpick or anything... I just thought it amusing, I guess. John H. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 05:08:42 -0700 (PDT) From: kevin eden Subject: [idealcopy] O'SHEA PRICE The price of the Micheal O'Shea CD is 12GBP for UK and Europe. Check with WMO (US) for North American price. Tim Robinson is right to point out that we forgot to put price on postcard. WHOOPS! ===== kevin eden wmo, po box 112, stockport, cheshire, sk3 9fd, uk wmouk@yahoo.com http://wiremailorder.com/ "dreams that money can buy" Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 08:42:56 -0500 From: "ray\)\(o\)\(mac" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Love Songs Tim wrote: >Maybe your average NME reader couldn't cope with a man singing gay love songs. >Mind you this never did Magnetic Fields any harm did it? There is a distinction between a man singing gay love songs and a gay man singing love songs which Mr. Merritt has been rather adamant about - Gay and Loud indeed. The Future Bible Heroes cover of Don't You Want Me is rather a hoot for the obvious but effective gender swithcing with Claudia and Stephen taking the opposite's part. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 08:42:56 -0500 From: "ray\)\(o\)\(mac" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Love Songs Tim wrote: >Maybe your average NME reader couldn't cope with a man singing gay love songs. >Mind you this never did Magnetic Fields any harm did it? There is a distinction between a man singing gay love songs and a gay man singing love songs which Mr. Merritt has been rather adamant about - Gay and Loud indeed. The Future Bible Heroes cover of Don't You Want Me is rather a hoot for the obvious but effective gender swithcing with Claudia and Stephen taking the opposite's part. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 10:27:44 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: [idealcopy] [OT] Prefab Pixies in the Kitchen Chiming in on a couple of recent OT threads... Prefab Sprout: Yes, I like Prefab Sprout *and* Dome! But I'll quickly add that the only Prefab product I can stomach all the way through is STEVE McQUEEN/TWO WHEELS GOOD, which is a peak of pop perfection. All the rest, even SWOON, have those moments of jazzbo saccharineness for which I can't forgive Paddy. The Pixies: Innovative and catchy, true longtime favorites. It never fails that someone's favorite album or track is another lister's least-favorite, and vice versa. But I'm not picky when it comes to the Pixies, and I enjoy COME ON PILGRIM, SURFER ROSA, DOOLITTLE, and TROMPE LE MONDE as a uniformly great mass of joy, with BOSSANOVA riding in their slipstream, just a wee bit uninspired compared to the rest of the catalog. I'll also throw in an endorsement of Frank Black's FRANK BLACK and the woefully underappreciated TEENAGER OF THE YEAR (my #3 album of the '90s!), which still get regular plays around here. Kitchens of Distinction: Waves and waves of bright, shiny, shimmering guitars crashing over the stony outcropping of my heart. I miss them. later, listowner Miles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 16:26:31 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Missing Pixies Sessions Paul>>>>The "Live at The BBC" collection, on the other hand, really annoys me. The performances are uniformly great, but the whole CD is around 30 minutes, and IT'S MISSING TRACKS!!!! ("Tame" for instance - there's a great version on a bootleg Peel Sessions 7" I have...) Jeez - why be stingy now? The band is long gone, right? My guess id that because Black Francis selected the track list and he wasn't too keen on Kim Deal at the time, he probably passed over 'Tame' as they do a kind of rutting impression on the vocals. Also passed over in its entirety was an early evening broadcast of 4 tracks culled from the 'Come On Pilgrim' sessions (Here Comes Your Man, Subacultcha (longer version with Distance chorus), Break My Body, Down To The Well). Including this would've led to duplication I guess... Then there was 'Into The White' which he probably ditched due to Kim's lead vocal, which is a shame as it's better than the one they recorded for a b-side. I think 'Alison' was also recorded for the session from which 'Ana' & 'monkey' sparng and it's omission is a bit of a mystery. So I agree, it was annoying that they left off some songs wasn't it? Still a cracking listen though. A bit like Wire's 'Brochure' CD... Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 16:49:26 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Pixies Again >>>>i just wanted to say that i, personally, rate 'Trompe Le Monde' over 'Bossanova', which i think is their weakest studio lp. I totally agree, although I like the fist 3 albums best. Oh my Golly! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 16:53:00 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] More reductionism Ian>>>>there were 4 or 5 crucial U.S. bands that opened the door for Nirvana to come crashing through...the Pixies, Husker Du, Big Black, Sonic Youth and Dinosaur (Jr), all, essentially, rock-based bands, And not forgetting Flipper, Black Flag, Meat Puppets, Minutemen, Butthole Surfers, Wipers... etc etc etc etc Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 17:00:39 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Even me. >>>>The Surgeon remix is great too, just an expansive , lush, all-enveloping wall of sound that I think even Mr Rowland would enjoy. I do enjoy it and the Kevin Shields remix too. Best Surgeon track I've heard but he did a good mix for Peel at one point. Why even me? A bit patronising. Kevin Shields and Mogwai and Surgeaon are hardly as dire as Depeche Mode! 'Even Mr Rowland!' ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 09:26:05 -0700 From: fernando Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Bows So, does this mean that there is a money back guarantee from you? ;-) Thanks for word on the album... I am sure to have a bit of hard time finding it here, but it should be worth it, then. cheers! - -fernando At 09:04 AM 4/26/01 +0000, Ian Grant wrote: > >>ig wrote:- > >At the moment, I can't decide. It's a curious beast, in that it's >somehow > >more messy *and* more song-based than "Blush". It's also very much in > >love - with itself, with life, with someone special. I shan't be filing > >it next to the Codeine albums, put it that way. > >Actually, I take all that back. I've just listened to it again. It's >absolutely bloody gorgeous. > >(First sign of madness, replying to your own e-mails...) > >Cheers, > >ig. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 19:18:23 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] That Pixie Deal Giluz: >>>>The Pixies didn't really know how to react to so many people in the crowd (20,000 I think it was). Their music's too intimate to be played in stadiums or parks. I'd say that about any band I like probably! Stadiums and parks were always crap! The last time I saw them was at a half full Manchester GMex (old railway station converted into small indoor stadium) just prior to 'Trompe Le Monde'. They certainly acted just the same way they did when they played the smaller venues, but the songs just kept coming! Actually Kim Deal's bands the Breeders and the Amps were better at the audience interaction thing (not that that's any measure of a band's quality). And the fact that Black Francis was playing some old Pixies numbers was the only reason I went to the gig, having not been impressed with many of his songs since 'Teenager of the Year'. The boring parts were when he did songs from his last couple of albums! However he didn't seem all that pleased that it was obvious people wanted to hear Pixies songs rather than his newer ones, so I guess if they did reform he'd only be doing it for the money. Apparently Kim Deal has recently been or is soon to go into the studio with Steve Albini to record a Breeders album. Crashed, on the last splash! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 12:20:49 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: [OT] Breeders update (was RE: [idealcopy] That Pixie Deal) >Apparently Kim Deal has recently been or is soon to go >into the studio with Steve Albini to record a Breeders >album. Yes, the Breeders are still around. Kim and Kelley have patched their differences, and are working togther. According to all sources, they have been recording with Albini (maybe that's why the Wire tapes are so late? (^_^)) Kim has brought some members of the band "Fear" into the Breeders, to replace Josephine and Jim (who's been hanging out with GbV, by the way), and they've played a couple of unannounced shows in L.A. Check http://www.noaloha.com for more info, and to hear a sample of what they might sound like, check here: http://www.noaloha.com/breeders/music/mod_squad/mod_squad.htm#collage news is here: http://www.noaloha.com/breeders/news_main.htm Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 20:10:42 +0100 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Buck Off - ----- Original Message ----- From: ian jackson To: ray ciscon Cc: idealcopy Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 6:59 PM Subject: [idealcopy] Buck Off > Ray wrote :- re Peter Buck, > Being rich and famous won't keep you from making a fool of yourself, but > being rich and famous will certainly allow you to make a fool of yourself on > a global scale. > > won't do the pre-publicity for the new lp any harm either will it?? > > ian.s.j. > Didn't he get done for throwing yoghurt at somebody? It's all anarchy innit! Ian B ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 20:08:57 +0100 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] L.F.K./ Ubu - ----- Original Message ----- From: ian jackson > cool...any old Long Fin Killie fans out there?? > > ian.s.j. I saw them supporting Pere Ubu in London in Ray Gun Suitcase days (it seems quite recent but I expect it's about five or six years ago - Jesus!). I thought they were okay (LFK that is) but never felt inspired to investigate further. Ubu were the reason I was there, although I think my girlfriend preferred LFK. David Thomas was also quite generous in his appreciation of them when he came on. Anybody on the list who's been to see Ubu live in the UK, has there been - at every one - an extremely tired and emotional cropped headed chap who tries to shove his way to the front and engage in a completely one way dialogue with D Thomas? (I've only been to three but I'm sure he's been there at all of them) Ian B ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 14:47:00 -0400 From: "Katherine Pouliot" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: [OT] GBV show in Boston I just heard on the radio that GBV are playing in Boston at the Paradise this coming Tuesday. We had a discussion many moons ago about them, and I'd only heard one song (Hold on Hope, yuck) at that time, so I couldn't say I liked them. I heard another song on the radio just the other day (motorway?) and liked that much, much better. So, if anyone in the Boston area is interested in them, that should be a good show. The Paradise is a good small club to see a good band in! later, Kath - ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Pietromonaco To: Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 3:20 PM Subject: [OT] Breeders update (was RE: [idealcopy] That Pixie Deal) > >Apparently Kim Deal has recently been or is soon to go > >into the studio with Steve Albini to record a Breeders > >album. > > Yes, the Breeders are still around. Kim and Kelley have patched their > differences, and are working togther. According to all sources, they have > been recording with Albini (maybe that's why the Wire tapes are so late? > (^_^)) Kim has brought some members of the band "Fear" into the Breeders, > to replace Josephine and Jim (who's been hanging out with GbV, by the way), > and they've played a couple of unannounced shows in L.A. > > Check http://www.noaloha.com for more info, and to hear a sample of what > they might sound like, check here: > > http://www.noaloha.com/breeders/music/mod_squad/mod_squad.htm#collage > > news is here: > http://www.noaloha.com/breeders/news_main.htm > > Cheers, > Paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 18:08:23 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Mersey, Manc and Seaside memoriezzzzzzzzzzz...... Ian, << and the State (saw the New Order two-nighter there, yeah? i was there for the two as well!<< I think there was only one song duplicated. I'll have to check the tapes! >> you didn't happen to see Howard Devoto's solo gig there as well did you?<< No, I saw him at the Hacienda on the same tour, probably the day before or after... >> i actually saw New Order's 3rd or 4th gig at Brady's (supporting Skafish, remember them?) before they were even called New Order!!<< Aha! Confirmation that the Skafish gig took place! It was actually New order's second gig (September 4 1980 I think) and the next night they played Blackpool - third on the bill to Tunnelvision and Section 25. I helped promote the gig, made the flyers etc. In fact that was the first time they played as New Order. Though it said New Orders on the handbills due to duff information being passed to me/my cloth ears (delete as applicable!) >>i think they were still considering 'Peter & the JD's' at the time!!<< Stevie and the JDs. One concept was for Steve Morris to become lead vocalist - - he sang a couple of the songs at Blackpool, and at the Beach Club in Manchester, the first post JD gig, which I also saw. Between us we've got the first three! >>i only found out by accident on the day, as i worked around the corner at the time, they did 6 new songs (all from 'Movement'), finished, then a roadie came on and said, 'they don't know any more, that's it' and er, that was it!<< The Blackpool set was Dreams Never End, Truth, Homage (unreleased song from Western Works demo), Mesh, Cries & Whispers, Ceremony. I have it taped. I bet you got the same six, though they did do a drum machine version of In a lonely place on some of the US tour dates a couple of weeks later. >> the whole thing was a fairly intense experience, believe me. >> Certainly was. The Beach Club was utterly awesome. It was the first time I'd been to a gig in Manchester. The Beach club was in a grotty hovel called Oozits on Shude Hill, and the club was on several floors. They showed films downstairs and the band played upstairs. (The film was Metropolis that night). Headline band was A Certain Ratio, second was a band whose name I've forgotten, fronted by Andrew Wilson (later of the Passage). Bottom of the bill was scheduled to be Belgian Fac band The Names, but they couldn't make it - so NO made their debut at fairly short notice. (Hence the oft-misquoted line about NO being billed as the No-names. They weren't billed at all!) As I'd got there early, I saw them setting up, with Steve Morris's big black drum kit in front of Donald Johnson's smaller (funkier!) kit. Plus JD flight cases..and members of the band. Fuck! They're going to play! So I just stood right at the front of the stage and waited. Half the punters missed it because they were watching the film! The sound was dire but VERY loud - you couldn't hear the vocals at all. Hooky played the whole gig with his back to the crowd. I'd guess the set was similar to Blackpool - they certainly played Dreams Never End (remember the 6-string bass) and Homage (fast one)...and definitely Truth. Don't remember Ceremony being played. It was a very short set - only about 20 minutes - maybe 5 songs. To this day it remians one of the most powerful, astonishing live performances I've ever seen. You knew it would be alright... The Blackpool gig was much clearer - you could hear what good songs they had. I really wish they'd recorded Movement right then, or put out an EP or something. By the next time I saw them (Chorley Tatton Community Centre, 3/1/81) it had become much slicker, and they were adding more songs. Hannet really fucked up with Movement. His productions after 1980 went horribly downhill (see also Magic Murder and the Weather). There's nothing much good after ACR's Flight 12in IMO. Ramble..... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 18:11:39 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] G.B.V. Ian, Chris, << Can i recommend more G.B.V. lp's ? 'Under The Bushes, Under The Stars', 'Alien Lanes', 'Bee Thousand' to start with. then work back to 'Propellor' and 'Vampire On Titus' for real lo-fi gunk!!! anything you can get hold of really is worth it. >> For me Bee Thousand is far and away the one. Great tunes, and just the right amount of Lo in its Fi. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 18:12:51 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: [OT] Pixies picks Paul, << "International, M/cr" mean? Is it a U.K. thing? >> It's a club called the International, in Manchester.... Yep, a UK thing! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 18:19:26 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] O'Shea and Prefab Boards of Dome Tim, << Yes again! We must be among the few who like Prefab Sprout *and* Dome! >> Not that big a gap is it?? First 3 Sprout albums are excellent pop records... Mark ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 18:24:53 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: [OT] Pixies picks Paul, << i tend to lean more towards the opinion of "the other" paul that surfer rosa and doolittle are where the band crested. i can't say that they fell off much with bossanova or trompe le monde, but i can't really say that they plateaued either. what i find more on the last two albums is that they are less consistently good, >> I'd agree with that. Don't really care for Trompe le Monde. Probably only played it a couple of times. Where I am out of step with the rest of the world is re Pixies as live band. I thought they were disappointing on the one occasion I saw them (Town and Country club, circa 89). Just bludgeoned the songs to pieces - all shouty vocals and drums, guitars buried, subtlety lost.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 18:27:25 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Bootleg Orbital Kitchens John, << I'm afraid Tim is right, Mark... the guitars on the Kitchens albums had so much delay on them that the overall effect *fooled* you into thinking there were "slushy synths in the background" when in fact their records hardly ever used synths at all! And you weren't the only one fooled - so many people thought they heard synths in their songs, on their last album they actually printed "no one played keyboards" in the liner notes! Not to nitpick or anything... I just thought it amusing, I guess. >> I'm not saying I was right to discount them - just that whatever effect they were aiming for backfired (for me) and they sounded too nice. I can see how you can get that effect with guitar efects though. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 17:40:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [idealcopy] More reductionism On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, [iso-8859-1] Graeme Rowland wrote: > Ian>>>>there were > 4 or 5 crucial U.S. bands that opened the door for > Nirvana to > come crashing through...the Pixies, Husker Du, Big > Black, Sonic Youth > and Dinosaur (Jr), all, essentially, rock-based bands, > > And not forgetting Flipper, Black Flag, Meat Puppets, > Minutemen, Butthole Surfers, Wipers... Yes on these - but their rise to chart acceptance and gradual drift toward quieter numbers definitely is making people forget R.E.M.: they were there, and they were among the first bands with those above to build the U.S. indie/college town circuit. (And hey - the Replacements too!) - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::This is America. People do whatever the fuck they feel like doing.... ::As a result, this country has one of the worst economies in the world. __Neal Stephenson, SNOW CRASH__ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 19:15:33 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] More reductionism Graeme, << 4 or 5 crucial U.S. bands that opened the door for Nirvana to come crashing through...the Pixies, Husker Du, Big Black, Sonic Youth and Dinosaur (Jr), all, essentially, rock-based bands, And not forgetting Flipper, Black Flag, Meat Puppets, Minutemen, Butthole Surfers, Wipers... >> I actually agree with the reductionist view here. Pixies, Du, BB, SY and DJr all had something highly original which struck a chord - whereas the others to me semed like pretty straight US punk. I know that's a generalisation, but I connected with the first 5 at the time and not the others.... Actually the band I'd add to the "crucial 5" is the Replacements... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 00:49:03 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] More reductionism maybe my point wasn't clear but... i was talking about bands that were more commercially successful than the ones you listed, in relation to Nirvana's world domination...but certainly the Buttholes for sixth place! ian.s.j. >From: Graeme Rowland >To: idealcopy@smoe.org >Subject: [idealcopy] More reductionism >Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 16:53:00 +0100 (BST) > >Ian>>>>there were >4 or 5 crucial U.S. bands that opened the door for >Nirvana to >come crashing through...the Pixies, Husker Du, Big >Black, Sonic Youth >and Dinosaur (Jr), all, essentially, rock-based bands, > >And not forgetting Flipper, Black Flag, Meat Puppets, >Minutemen, Butthole Surfers, Wipers... > >etc etc etc etc >Graeme > >===== >Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine >http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine > >"What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert >Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk >or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 00:58:41 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] L.F.K./ Ubu well...if it was a toss up between Ubu and LFK... then Ubu of course. never my most favourite band, but L.F.K.'s lp 'Amelia' still sounds interesting (though maybe of it's time now), along with the 'Hands and Lips' and 'Lipstick' singles. ian.s.j. >From: "Ian B" >To: "idealcopy" >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] L.F.K./ Ubu >Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 20:08:57 +0100 > >----- Original Message ----- >From: ian jackson > > > cool...any old Long Fin Killie fans out there?? > > > > ian.s.j. > >I saw them supporting Pere Ubu in London in Ray Gun Suitcase days (it seems >quite recent but I expect it's about five or six years ago - Jesus!). I >thought they were okay (LFK that is) but never felt inspired to investigate >further. Ubu were the reason I was there, although I think my girlfriend >preferred LFK. David Thomas was also quite generous in his appreciation of >them when he came on. Anybody on the list who's been to see Ubu live in >the >UK, has there been - at every one - an extremely tired and emotional >cropped >headed chap who tries to shove his way to the front and engage in a >completely one way dialogue with D Thomas? (I've only been to three but I'm >sure he's been there at all of them) >Ian B _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 01:03:42 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] More reductionism jeffrey wrote:- but their rise to chart acceptance and gradual drift toward >quieter numbers definitely is making people forget R.E.M. you're quite right j, i totally forgot about them, they were crucial in this respect and i loved them at the time (up to 'Automatic...'?) ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 01:06:28 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: [OT] GBV show in Boston 'Motor Away', Katherine, one of their best, go to the gig, it could be one of the best decisions you ever made, but obviously, i'm biased! ian.s.j. >From: "Katherine Pouliot" >To: "Paul Pietromonaco" , >Subject: [idealcopy] Re: [OT] GBV show in Boston >Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 14:47:00 -0400 > >I just heard on the radio that GBV are playing in Boston at the Paradise >this coming Tuesday. We had a discussion many moons ago about them, and >I'd >only heard one song (Hold on Hope, yuck) at that time, so I couldn't say I >liked them. I heard another song on the radio just the other day >(motorway?) and liked that much, much better. > >So, if anyone in the Boston area is interested in them, that should be a >good show. The Paradise is a good small club to see a good band in! > >later, >Kath > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Paul Pietromonaco >To: >Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 3:20 PM >Subject: [OT] Breeders update (was RE: [idealcopy] That Pixie Deal) > > > > >Apparently Kim Deal has recently been or is soon to go > > >into the studio with Steve Albini to record a Breeders > > >album. > > > > Yes, the Breeders are still around. Kim and Kelley have patched their > > differences, and are working togther. According to all sources, they >have > > been recording with Albini (maybe that's why the Wire tapes are so late? > > (^_^)) Kim has brought some members of the band "Fear" into the >Breeders, > > to replace Josephine and Jim (who's been hanging out with GbV, by the >way), > > and they've played a couple of unannounced shows in L.A. > > > > Check http://www.noaloha.com for more info, and to hear a sample of what > > they might sound like, check here: > > > > http://www.noaloha.com/breeders/music/mod_squad/mod_squad.htm#collage > > > > news is here: > > http://www.noaloha.com/breeders/news_main.htm > > > > Cheers, > > Paul _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 01:13:15 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] G.B.V. also, a fellow GBV enthusiast has reminded me to mention another fine GBV lp 'Mag Earwhig', which i'm listening to right now! ian.s.j. >From: MarkBursa@aol.com >To: iansjackson@hotmail.com, CHRISWIRE@aol.com >CC: idealcopy@smoe.org >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] G.B.V. >Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 18:11:39 EDT > >Ian, Chris, > ><< Can i recommend more G.B.V. lp's ? > 'Under The Bushes, Under The Stars', 'Alien Lanes', 'Bee Thousand' > to start with. then work back to 'Propellor' and 'Vampire On Titus' for > real lo-fi gunk!!! anything you can get hold of really is worth it. >> > >For me Bee Thousand is far and away the one. Great tunes, and just the >right >amount of Lo in its Fi. > >Mark _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 01:15:00 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] O'Shea and Prefab Boards of Dome ...and 'Faron Young' is a classic single! ian.s.j. >From: MarkBursa@aol.com >To: timrobinson@cwcom.net, CHRISWIRE@aol.com >CC: idealcopy@smoe.org >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] O'Shea and Prefab Boards of Dome >Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 18:19:26 EDT > >Tim, > ><< Yes again! We must be among the few who like Prefab Sprout *and* Dome! > >> > >Not that big a gap is it?? First 3 Sprout albums are excellent pop >records... > >Mark ;-) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 01:20:54 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] More reductionism actually...come to think of it... can we make it a top 10?!?!? see all linked emails. ian.s.j. >From: "ian jackson" >To: jenor@csd.uwm.edu >CC: idealcopy@smoe.org >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] More reductionism >Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 01:03:42 +0100 > >jeffrey wrote:- >but their rise to chart acceptance and gradual drift toward >>quieter numbers definitely is making people forget R.E.M. > >you're quite right j, i totally forgot about them, >they were crucial in this respect and i loved them >at the time (up to 'Automatic...'?) > >ian.s.j. > >_________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 00:33:27 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] GBV/M/cr, M/cr, so much to answer for... >paul wrote :- Just out of curiousity, what exactly does "International, M/cr" mean? Is it a U.K. thing? Well yes, the International was a club in Manchester (hence M/cr) sorry about the parochial abbreviation, i forget sometimes... re G.B.V.'s new lp :- I guess what I'm saying is "Don't get your hopes up too high for this one." (Of course, your mileage may vary.) ok, thanks paul, at least i'm prepared and can check it out beforehand, mind you, it takes me ages to catch up with all the stuff they (and Pollard) release anyway!!!! (see my just getting hold of 'Do The Collapse'.) and :- (There are rumors that it's their last tour, BTW.) oh please no, don't let it be true...Bob, if you're reading this... ONE MORE U.K. TOUR, OK?? please? ian.s.j. ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #128 *******************************