From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #127 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, April 26 2001 Volume 04 : Number 127 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Re: [OT] Pixies picks ["ian jackson" ] [idealcopy] but teacher... ["ian jackson" ] [idealcopy] Dawson ["ian jackson" ] [idealcopy] more Mersey memoriezzzzzzzzzzz...... ["ian jackson" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: [OT] Pixies picks [Paul Pietromonaco ] Re: [idealcopy] G.B.V. [Paul Pietromonaco ] Re: [idealcopy] Lightning Seeds? Never heard of em! [Tim Robinson ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: [OT] Pixies picks [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Re: [OT] Pixies live [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Bootleg Orbital Kitchens [JH3 ] [idealcopy] RE: OT REM ["Wilson, Paul" ] [idealcopy] Re: Bows [Ian Grant ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 23:22:36 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: [OT] Pixies picks paul, i agree about Surfer Rosa being their defining moment. surely one of THE great rock lp's. i actually saw them, i think, inbetween Come On Pilgrim and S.R., with Throwing Muses (International, M/cr), suffice to say, it was a most enjoyable experience! i just wanted to say that i, personally, rate 'Trompe Le Monde' over 'Bossanova', which i think is their weakest studio lp. in fact i'd give it equal standing with 'Doolittle' at 3rd. 'Bird Dream Of The Olympus Mons' and 'Letter To Memphis' are surely two of the Pixies best songs ever. 'it's educational' - ian.s.j. >From: Paul Pietromonaco >To: idealcopy >Subject: [OT] Pixies picks (was Re: [idealcopy] Re: pixies is better) >Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 12:54:55 -0700 > > > I abandoned them after Surfer Rosa (actually, returned > >the record to the store within a week), and just re-connected... > >Yeah, Surfer Rosa is pretty defining for them. I'd say Doolittle as >well. Probably my favorite two Pixies albums. Then, Come On Pilgrim >and Bossanova a couple of notches below them. Finally, Trompe Le Monde >a little below that. > >Another way to look at it: upward slope from Come On Pilgrim to Surfer >Rosa, straight across to Doolittle, then a downward slope from >Bossanova thru Trompe Le Monde. > >They never really made a terrible album, but some were better than >others. > >The new B-sides collection doesn't really fit this model, since the >songs are from every period. On its own merits, it might be a little >weak, but when you place the b-sides next to the songs on the albums >they're pulled from, they fit in quite nicely. Maybe I'd rate it, >standalone, like Trompe Le Monde. The only quibble I have with the >B-sides collection is there was one A-side that was different than the >album version (the original "Planet Of Sound") and it would have been >nice to collect that one on the same disc. (They have plenty of >space...(^_^)) Also, some of the B-sides were live performances, and >those weren't collected either. > >The "Live at The BBC" collection, on the other hand, really annoys me. >The performances are uniformly great, but the whole CD is around 30 >minutes, and IT'S MISSING TRACKS!!!! ("Tame" for instance - there's a >great version on a bootleg Peel Sessions 7" I have...) Jeez - why be >stingy now? The band is long gone, right? > >I only bought the compilation "Death to the Pixies" CD for the bonus >live disc that comes standard in America, so I haven't actually >listened to the compilation to see if it's representative or not. It >looked okay. The concert is pretty good. I think there's some better >live cuts on some of the B-sides of the original singles. "Tame" again >springs to mind. > >I'm Pixies'd out! >Cheers, >Paul _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 18:33:01 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT sound art stuff In a message dated 25/04/01 20:21:28 GMT Daylight Time, alchea@hotmail.com writes: > It could be presented on a CD you buy and listen on your stereo, or it could > be an installation in a gallery (ick, galleries....) > Anyway, I'm just a kid and still figuring it out myself. All I know is I > enjoy it a whole lot more than painting. > bye, Alyce > > > Interesting stuff Don't know about you but Gilbert/Lewis/Mills & Mzui come to mind here. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 18:38:24 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] An Ideal Copy In a message dated 25/04/01 21:42:08 GMT Daylight Time, e.klaver@sympatico.ca writes: > > When the chorus hits he goes frantic-- rocking back and forth and laughing > like a maniac!!!! > > All this to the dismay of mother. > > Just thought I would share this proud moment > > Eric in Toronto > Oh ! Excellent.Early corruption of youth.I love it !! Nice One Eric ! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 18:42:33 EDT From: WAndyComer@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Pixies picks Interesting, the divergence of the list...i would personally rate "Bossanova" as my favorite, with "Trompe Le Monde" second. Scandalous! Andy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 01:46:51 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] post pixies post From: fernando Hmmm... I was not asking so much about who is better in an incontrovertible way... I can live with my tastes just fine (since I am the one with the expenses ;-), but I was indeed curious if most people thought that the Pixies were that good, as the press makes them today... and has their stuff held up well... the answers were good to read, as I have never discussed this band with others before, so that was cool. oh ok, my answer may have appeared to be a bit blunt then. i honestly think the Pixies were one of the most important bands of the last 20 or so years. i've gone on public record as saying that there were 4 or 5 crucial U.S. bands that opened the door for Nirvana to come crashing through...the Pixies, Husker Du, Big Black, Sonic Youth and Dinosaur (Jr), all, essentially, rock-based bands, but putting a new twist/edge/slant on the face of that particular genre. 'Levitate Me' was the first thing i ever heard, and it was one of 'those' musical moments for me, it simply blew me away. i still rate all their stuff as essential, 'Bossanova', for me, is where they were merely average, but it's still way above most rock lp's (see earlier 'Pixies picks' mail). This helps me put their music in context, as I abandoned them after Surfer Rosa (actually, returned the record to the store within a week), again, see my earlier mail on how i rate S.R. and just re-connected... and some of their songs are just amazing.. but it does not hit me as that important, but can understand that others do and Nirvana's testimonial and popularity does help in that regard too. Just because they had a technique that was ripped by a bunch of bands, say like MBV circa Loveless, does not make them a great band in my mind -- but I guess this is not conventional. i agree with the sentiment, the fact that other bands ripped them off does not, per se, make them a great band, however, here in the U.K. at least, the Pixies are way, way, more revered than T.P.E. i hope this gives a bit more perspective than my initial mail! salud, ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 01:49:53 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] but teacher... graeme, re - the Stranglers email. 3 doesn't go into 128 exactly, but it goes... further on down the line, i'd like to read a special missive on J.J.'s 'Euroman Cometh', if thats at all possible. yours, in black, ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 01:49:22 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] Dawson Andy wrote :- I have heard of, but not heard Dawson...what do you know about them? And does anyone have any of their releases? I am very intrigued by this whole Ex/Dog Faced Hermans "scene," of which bands like the Honkies were also a part. sadly andy, that's about it as far as i'm concerned. i have no recorded material by Dawson, i know they were close to the Dog Faced Hermans, both being Scots, so there may be a way of finding something through that channel. maybe another listee will turn up with more. good luck, ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 01:48:47 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] more Mersey memoriezzzzzzzzzzz...... Mark wrote:- and the State (saw the New Order two-nighter there, yeah? i was there for the two as well! you didn't happen to see Howard Devoto's solo gig there as well did you? i actually saw New Order's 3rd or 4th gig at Brady's (supporting Skafish, remember them?) before they were even called New Order!! i think they were still considering 'Peter & the JD's' at the time!! i only found out by accident on the day, as i worked around the corner at the time, they did 6 new songs (all from 'Movement'), finished, then a roadie came on and said, 'they don't know any more, that's it' and er, that was it! the whole thing was a fairly intense experience, believe me. And stereo-thieving rat boys, who leave the aforesaid faux-piscine comestibles on your carpet. Or so I've heard.... (that's enough Liverpool/crime stereotypes - ed. Calm down) i think so too, despite the fact that i'm a Wirral kid. peace bro', ian.s.j ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 01:51:16 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] G.B.V. From: CHRISWIRE A few months ago now there were several posts on Guided By Voices & sure enough a CD wandered past my fingers recently & I grasped it. It was Do The Collapse. Wow ! First thing I've heard by them & it is great.So there's my raison d'etre (?) for this list.Nice one. weird, i'm waiting for my copy to arrive from Rough Trade right now!!! not even heard a track from it yet. shameful, as i'm one of those who keep banging on about G.B.V. i was told recently that you couldn't get hold of 'Do The Collapse' because of the cessation of Creation, then saw it on the R.T. site, and jumped on it!! Can i recommend more G.B.V. lp's ? 'Under The Bushes, Under The Stars', 'Alien Lanes', 'Bee Thousand' to start with. then work back to 'Propellor' and 'Vampire On Titus' for real lo-fi gunk!!! anything you can get hold of really is worth it. new lp available on import as we speak, i think it's called 'Isolation Drills(!!!!)', Wire inspired/influenced maybe???????? cheers, ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 18:17:18 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: [OT] Pixies picks >paul, >i agree about Surfer Rosa being their defining moment. >surely one of THE great rock lp's. As a side note, it was my first introduction to Steve Albini as well. I had never *heard* anything quite like the sounds he recorded. Still one of the cleanest sounding recordings I've ever heard. >i actually saw them, i think, inbetween Come On Pilgrim and S.R., >with Throwing Muses (International, M/cr), suffice to say, >it was a most enjoyable experience! Just out of curiousity, what exactly does "International, M/cr" mean? Is it a U.K. thing? (^_^) I know who Throwing Muses are... but that's a whole other e-mail thread. (^_^) (Did you know that Kristin Hersh & family have just moved to Seattle? She actually doesn't live too far away from me...) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 18:24:13 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: [idealcopy] G.B.V. >new lp available on import as we speak, i think it's called >'Isolation Drills(!!!!)', Wire inspired/influenced maybe???????? > Hi ian, Yeah - "Isolation Drills" is out in the States. No direct Wire references musically, unlike "Subspace Biographies" from Robert's "Waved Out" solo album. You know, maybe it's just me, but with the exception of one or two songs, this release was a disappointment. I'm not one of the "4 track or bust" GbV fans - I quite like their later stuff - but, I'll be darned if I can remember any songs off of this release. (Which is quite rare for me.) I guess what I'm saying is "Don't get your hopes up too high for this one." (Of course, your mileage may vary.) On the other hand, their live show this year is one of the best I've ever seen. (Better than last year's show - which was excellent.) If they swing by, definitely try to see them. (There are rumors that it's their last tour, BTW.) They've been playing "Subspace Biographies" this tour...for that special Wire feeling! (^_^) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 03:20:20 +0100 From: Tim Robinson Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Lightning Seeds? Never heard of em! MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > Tim, > > Kitchens of Distinction were one of those bands that completely passed me by. > I think I lumped them in with some other bands under the category of, for > want of a better description, "Nice Indie" (see also - Railway Children, > Close Lobsters, Lightning Seeds when they started). Bit over-produced, slushy > synths in the background, '80s drums etc. Not edgy enough really.... Which Kitchens of Distinction was that then Mark? Don't recall any slushy synths, over-production or 80s drums on any of their records. If I wanted to hear that sort of thing I'd listen to Manscape by our own Wire! Lightning Seeds cannot possibly be mentioned in the same breath as KOD or Wire or any decent band. Indeed Lightning Seeds should not be mentioned on any forum anywhere in the world. Lets pretend they do not exist. Lets pretend Ian Broudie ( a man so pathetic he wears sunglasses on daytime television) is just an figment of Pete Wylies' imagination. Lets pretend that wretched, corporate, soul destroying advert featuring desparate,aspiring child actors bouncing around on a car with 'Things Could Be Marvellous' never happened. Lets pretend no-one ever released a sickly globule of semen of an album could 'Megafabbobrilliant' or whatever it was called. Lets pretend Ian McCulloch never made a dreadful football record with the Spice Girls Lets applaud a former band-mate of mine, one Stephen Bamber, who once had the chance to join the Lighning Seeds as keyboard player and refused because they were shit. Lets forget they ever existed. Repeat after me dear friends of the Wire: THERE IS NO SUCH BAND AS THE LIGHTNING SEEDS. There. Wasn't too difficult. Doesn't life seem better without them? Repeat the same for the Badly Drawn Boy and life seems even better! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 03:21:14 +0100 From: Tim Robinson Subject: [idealcopy] O'Shea and Prefab Boards of Dome ChrisWire wrote > To keep on topic for a change I hope listers have got their postcard > from WMO > about the Michael O'Shea release.I have the original LP but after > reading the > release notes I am having that CD ! > When I bought the LP I had no idea what to expect & was just mugged by > that > instrument he played. I got the postcard, and I read all about O'Shea in Kevins Book, but other than that I know nothing Chris or someone, tell us more about this record! I like the way they forgot to put the price of CD on it and someone has hand written '#12' on it. > Not posted a Chris listening post for a bit.Be inspired. > > BOARDS OF CANADA -INABEAUTIFULPLACEOUTINTHECOUNTRY - This is still being > played to death.It is immense in it's beauty.All 4 tracks are stunning. I second that. I'd also recommend their LP on Warp (Music has the Right to Children), and the Hi-Scores EP on Skam and the Peel Session EP. I like the way they never seem to do any press or gigs, they just make great records every few months. > > MOGWAI --FEAR SATAN REMIXES -Kevin Shields My Bloody Valentine Remix > is 10 > minutes of bliss. Oh yes a great record. This is something close to the white-out version of You Made Me Realise MBV did on their last tour and is certainly one of the best things Kevin Sheilds has done in recent years. Monster! The Surgeon remix is great too, just an expansive , lush, all-enveloping wall of sound that I think even Mr Rowland would enjoy. .................................... Stereolab & Joy Division are both complete genius and I've said far too much about both in my last few posts!..... > RADIOHEAD - DRILL EP - No I'm not selling this one, Kid A was the only thing of theirs I've really liked but Huh? Whats this? Thom Yorke Dugga Dugga Dugga? > A CERTAIN RATIO -LIVE IN AMERICA Played this to death when I was in my teens. After some recent discussions about ACR on list I went back to my parents house and dug this out of the Attic! Its really good as it finds ACR finding their feet after the line-up changes and moving from early Factory stuff like And Then Again to Andy Connel stuff like Wild Party quite seamlessly.....plus they cut loose with some brilliant Street Samba at the end. > PREFAB SPROUT - STEVE MCQUEEN - great great pop songs. Yes! Chris...we seem to have strangely similar musical tastes! > > GILBERT/LEWIS - DOME 1 - Cruel When Complete/Rolling Upon My > Day/Airmail & > Ampnoise.You know when you get that "shiver" when you hear that > occasional > song which just knocks you for six ? Yes again! We must be among the few who like Prefab Sprout *and* Dome! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 21:29:13 -0500 From: "david mack" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: noisy improv and the ex always thought the ex a tad more interesting than the crass closer in spirit to the dead improvisation and all that you know there tends to be a certain cross-polination between the nosie and improv screnes (thurston moore/evan parker, the ex/tom cora, keiji heino (as opposed to that *other* heino) ...) which when done right (to my ears) can be v. rewarding this direction is fairly active here in chicago - flying lettenbachers, et al - though sometimes i the garage improv thing is too garage for my tastes anyways - i dont think there is any aversion to the ex i quite like joggers and smoggers and the weird little 3" single i first picked up not likely to go completist tho david (who is sadly missing alyce's sound creations at the moment (my turn to look after the little critter on whom we pin the hopes for a better future (our daughter)) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 21:52:25 -0500 From: "david mack" Subject: [idealcopy] Re:unholy greil john fahey on greil marcus (as a part of the nature of reality) http://www.johnfahey.com/reality.htm#10/23/98 unfair as any comparison might be , fahey's passing is one of the most significant losses american music has suffered in my lifetime "Fahey's not just dead, he's extinct." - Dean Blackwood April 3, 2001 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 23:26:21 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: [OT] Pixies picks In a message dated 4/25/01 6:28:32 PM, iansjackson@hotmail.com writes: >'Bird Dream Of The Olympus Mons' and 'Letter To Memphis' are surely >two of the Pixies best songs ever. two really great songs, indeed. as difficult as it is for me to pick and choose among pixies songs, i tend to lean more towards the opinion of "the other" paul that surfer rosa and doolittle are where the band crested. i can't say that they fell off much with bossanova or trompe le monde, but i can't really say that they plateaued either. what i find more on the last two albums is that they are less consistently good, where the other two really rip through my stereo speakers faster than my daughter and a metal ruler. now i also have the cd version of the first two albums together, so i've never really paid much attention to where come on pilgrim ends and surfer rosa begins either. it's all great though. getting back to bossanova. i must defend the album with some of my favorite songs (musically and especially lyrically) like: velouria, ana, all over the world. and considering it's pretty darn poppy, dig for fire is one cool tune. then the album closes beautifully with stormy weather and havalina. and who can sit still when any of these play: cecelia ann, rock music, allison, hang wire! "say to me, where have you been-finally through the roof-AND HOW DOES LEMUR SKIN reflect the sea?" oh VELVETEEN! V-E L-O-U R-I-A - -paul c.d. p.s. once, while driving through northern new jersey, i stopped at a rr crossing. i had a homemade pixies tape playing in the car. as the gate came down, the song "silver" began to play. the longest freight train i've ever seen began to ride past my windshield. one car after another. flatcars, boxcars, different colors, some rusted, all beautiful. as the last car went by and the gate lifted, the song finished. v23 couldn't have designed a better music video :o) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 23:45:18 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: [OT] Pixies live forget who posted the original here, but: >>i actually saw them, i think, inbetween Come On Pilgrim and S.R., >>with Throwing Muses (International, M/cr), suffice to say, >>it was a most enjoyable experience! this was the first time i saw either band, too. both were equally outstanding...if that's possible! i had the chance to see both bands several times after as well, sadly missing the pixies on what turned out to be their final tour. my favorite show of theirs had to be when they toured with happy mondays. again, both bands absolutely great (i have a feeling many here may disagree on the latter...maybe not). anyway, the pixies played an extraordinary set, closing with a surf version of "wave of mutilation" and the classic "where is my mind?" simply by playing their set in alphabetical order! who else would (could) do something like that? :o) i want a reunion now! - -paul c.d. ::waving a million dollar bill:: ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 23:21:09 -0500 From: JH3 Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Bootleg Orbital Kitchens >>Kitchens of Distinction were one of those bands that completely >>passed me by. Bit over-produced, slushy synths in the >>background, '80s drums etc. Not edgy enough really.... >Which Kitchens of Distinction was that then Mark? Don't recall any >slushy synths, over-production or 80s drums on any of their records. >If I wanted to hear that sort of thing I'd listen to Manscape by our >own Wire! I'm afraid Tim is right, Mark... the guitars on the Kitchens albums had so much delay on them that the overall effect *fooled* you into thinking there were "slushy synths in the background" when in fact their records hardly ever used synths at all! And you weren't the only one fooled - so many people thought they heard synths in their songs, on their last album they actually printed "no one played keyboards" in the liner notes! Not to nitpick or anything... I just thought it amusing, I guess. John H. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 07:46:59 +0100 From: "Wilson, Paul" Subject: [idealcopy] RE: OT REM "The bloke next door plays R.E.M. So bloody loud, I can't stand Michael Stipes, His voice annoys." - - Dan Treacy ------------------------------ Date: 26 Apr 2001 08:01:38 -0000 From: Ian Grant Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Bows >fernando wrote:- >also, the new Bows is supposed to be superb! At the moment, I can't decide. It's a curious beast, in that it's somehow more messy *and* more song-based than "Blush". It's also very much in love - with itself, with life, with someone special. I shan't be filing it next to the Codeine albums, put it that way. That said, there are some incredible, magical tunes on there. And, as with its predecessor, it demands your listening time by virtue of its spectacularly lush exterior. Just waiting to see if its interior is so satisfying, I guess. [Hand in the air] I own a Dawson lp. I was never very taken by it, though - - they weren't Big Flame and suffered greatly by comparison. This has been known to happen before and since. Cheers, ig. ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #127 *******************************