From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #126 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, April 25 2001 Volume 04 : Number 126 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] RE: Kraut Rock ["wiremailorder.com" ] [idealcopy] off topic - playlists ["ian jackson" ] Re: [idealcopy] off topic - playlists [John Roberts ] [idealcopy] Buck Off ["ian jackson" ] [idealcopy] pixies is better ["ian jackson" ] [idealcopy] James Brown ["ian jackson" ] [idealcopy] Smells Like Mersey Trout ["ian jackson" ] [idealcopy] Re: Dawson [WAndyComer@aol.com] [idealcopy] Re: pixies is better [fernando ] RE: [idealcopy] OT sound art stuff ["Alyce Ornella" ] Re: [idealcopy] Smells Like Mersey Trout [MarkBursa@aol.com] [OT] Pixies picks (was Re: [idealcopy] Re: pixies is better) [Paul Pietro] [idealcopy] Re:UnSound ["ray\)\(o\)\(mac" ] [idealcopy] An Ideal Copy ["Eric Klaver" ] [idealcopy] 80 Sub-Pop #7 & 8 [=?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] RE: Kraut Rock Planeten Sit In was the first I believe, but all are higly recommended. Unique combination of drums, guitars and ... kosmische synths, most Unlike TD of the era. I've got first four of Guru Guru, although the first strikes me best - very unstructured, total guitar freakout! c shop@wiremailorder.com http://www.wiremailorder.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 12:29:25 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] off topic - playlists CHRISWIRE wrote:- Badly Drawn Boy - EP3 To be honest (I must be concentrating too much on "weird music") I have not heard a thing by this bloke at all this is the only thing i've heard and liked by him really, snatches of other stuff have not moved me enough to check anything else out! the first track on EP3 is a kind of low-rent lo-fi Aphex Twin, the second, 'I Need A Sign', is a kind of singalong campfire ditty, a la Smog/HMHB/Fred Neil, which went quite high in the Peel Festive 50 one year. the diversity of these two opening tracks was something that created interest in him, but that was it . i tend to just play these two for their perversity. chriswire also wrote :- Talking of the Leeds area... any 3 Johns fans out there?? found myself singing 'Sold Down The River'..... after the Arsenal match on Saturday........ ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 07:39:33 -0400 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] [OT] Guitar bands for the 80s (in pop?) people, people.... REM (when they were good) Eric in Toronto - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of giluz Sent: April 25, 2001 5:27 AM To: IdealCopy; fernando Subject: RE: [idealcopy] [OT] Guitar bands for the 80s (in pop?) Fernando wrote: > Do people in this list think that the Pixies were really *the* > guitar band, > in some quick pop sense (so as not compare to the more off-center bands > like The Chameleons, House of Love, or even My Bloody Valentine). Used to think so in the late 80's. I still think they're good, but their music's certainly lost its edge, and would probably sound really dated in about 10 years time or so. Graeme Rowland wrote: > Frank Black trotted out a few Pixies numbers when I > saw him recently - mostly carbon copies and not > perhaps the ones you might expect! Apparently his > manager has hinted that if the money is right (like > millions of dollars!) a Pixies reunion is not entirely > out of the question (or so someone said on the Shellac > list). Oh, that's so boring: I think we're in the midst of what might be called later on as the reunion era: Anyone that's been in the music biz for more than 10 years is now reuniting his or her old band. They sould have thought of that when they originally broke up! Saw the Pixies live twice: Once in the Hammersmith Odeon on the Bosanova tour (wicked); the other time was a few months after that at Crystal Palace Bowl, when I was nearly trampled to death by over-enthusiastic Ride fans at the support act. The Pixies didn't really know how to react to so many people in the crowd (20,000 I think it was). Their music's too intimate to be played in stadiums or parks. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 13:02:15 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] Pixies/Dinosaur/Stump Ian Grant wrote :- Well, I always admired the Pixies far more than I loved them. For me, the very magnificent Dinosaur Jr soared far higher and touched more raw nerves at that time. And they were pop in much the same way as the Pixies were pop, really. loved both bands, saw them both live a few times. Dinosaur with Lou rocked (Planet X), without him they sucked(Academy, M/cr) as our friends in the Americas say the Pixies kicked botty, big time, each time, go figure!!! ig also said :- The early Stump records..... oh fuck, 'Mud On A Colon' what a fucking great 12" saw them live too, (god i'm starting to bore myself here) Mick Lynch's belly-roll, once seen never forgotten. whataband, whataband................. (dozes off and slips from rocking-chair) jeez!!!! ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 08:04:46 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Guitar bands for the 80s (in pop?) Giluz, << Oh, that's so boring: I think we're in the midst of what might be called later on as the reunion era: Anyone that's been in the music biz for more than 10 years is now reuniting his or her old band. They sould have thought of that when they originally broke up! >> It's a reflection of the times. Several generations of music fans have grown older, but whereas in the past people generally "grew out" of pop/rock music when they got older, this no longer happens. There is a massive audience for music produced over the past half-century - much as there is an audience for classical music or jazz. Magazines like Mojo and Uncut feed the need. On top of that, the new music that floats to the surface these days seems increasingly the product of focus groups and marketing departments, leading to general disgruntlement and a hankering for better days of 10/20/30 years ago depending on when you were a teenager. Even interesting music on record is often dire live (eg two blokes playing powerbooks). What's the point? Personally I'm very happy that some of the truly great bands of the past three decades bothered to reform. Television were superb last week - even better than the 1992 reunion; likewise the Velvet Underground, Big Star, Sex Pistols - none of whom I saw first time round. OK, they don't all do it the way Wire do - with new/reworked material. But enjoy it while it's there. They may be curmudgeonly old gits, but both Cale and Reed admitted they were glad they diud the VU just to put a biut of the spotlight on Sterling Morrison before he died. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 05:18:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Wireviews Subject: [idealcopy] Live Wire/Orbital "As for Wire, they were much better at getting soundboard recordings! There are certainly enough mixing desk concert tapes to make a really good 78-79 live album. Surely PinkFlag.com is the perfect place to relase these? You could almost do them as CD-Rs to order, at a premium price." To be honest, I doubt these would sell well outside the hardcore Wire fan base, and even then, Wire would be hard-pressed to get back licensing fees and so forth (unless, of course, Wire own the rights to their early live stuff insted of EMI) or production costs. I'd rather Wire put its energy into new stuff, or at least new/old stuff. Other than a totally new release, I'd be interested to hear more 'versions', such as the recent Another the Letter and Crazy about Love takes... that would make a better CD... standard live takes just don't interest me that much... "The Orbital album will also be out... good review in Mojo" Well, it has better be good. The last one was middling and I still don't think they've bettered In Sides. Dwr Budr is close to magical. Craig. ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. Snub.Comms: http://welcome.to/snub Veer Audio: http://listen.to/veer - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 05:25:33 -0700 (PDT) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: [idealcopy] off topic - playlists Count me in as a 3 Johns fan. They were another band who were better live than on record imo. Saw em many times in Leicester at the Charlotte. Jon Langford's other band The Mekons played here in Leicester a few months ago at this really small venue The Musician. They always play Leicester as their bass player's family lives here. They played two sets, did all their hits and I get pissed as a fart and danced/pogoed to Where Were You? An excellent night. John Zowee Zowee Zowee > chriswire also wrote :- > Talking of the Leeds area... > > any 3 Johns fans out there?? found myself singing > 'Sold Down The River'..... > after the Arsenal match on Saturday........ > > ian.s.j. > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 08:28:13 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Live Wire/Orbital Craig, << I'd be interested to hear more 'versions', such as the recent Another the Letter and Crazy about Love takes... >> I've herad the Crazy about Love (excellent) but what's the Another...?? Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 05:32:06 -0700 (PDT) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: [idealcopy] (OT) James Brown of 'BZAG'.. Yes, before his infamy with Loaded and now Popcorn mags James Brown was a nice bloke. I stayed at his place in Leeds once when he still lived with his dad. I'd gone to Leeds to see Yeah Yeah Noh support Marc Riley and the Creepers and Brown was DJ. He offered to put me and a mate up for the night. He was rather more politicised in those days - he went off to the picket line in the morning - it was during the miner's strike. Even John Robb described him as a sweet young boy in Rox. I wasn't aware that he'd been in a band tho. John - --- Ian B wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: John Roberts > > Despite their constant attention in fanzines like > > James Brown's 'Attack on Bzag' and John Robb's > 'Rox' > > (both now media stars in the UK > > I used to know James Brown years ago. He was the > vocalist in a band in > Leeds called The Butter Cookies (which featured a > couple of good mates of > mine). He was a completely unselfconcious front > man, and not a bad bloke, > although he tried to blag his way onto a trip to > Madrid where me and a mate > had been invited on to 'perform'. The Madrid trip > never took place. > > Note to Kevin Alexander, who the hell was that guy > giving you the email > grief? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 08:10:44 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Guitar bands for the 80s (in pop?) << people, people.... REM (when they were good) >> Like...now? Heard 'Imitation of Life'? That is a very, very good pop single. As was Great Beyond. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 10:10:14 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] off topic - playlists John, << The Mekons played here in Leicester a few months ago at this really small venue The Musician. They always play Leicester as their bass player's family lives here. They played two sets, did all their hits and I get pissed as a fart and danced/pogoed to Where Were You? An excellent night >> Oddly a review of the Mekons in Chicago has just cropped up on the Leeds United list! Amazed they still do Where were you? Is it country-tinged? And do they still play Never been in a riot? Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 16:10:11 +0100 From: timrobinson@cwcom.net Subject: [idealcopy] Bootleg Orbital Kitchens read message Mark wrote: >As for Wire, they were much better at getting soundboard recordings! There >are certainly enough mixing desk concert tapes to make a really good 78-79 >live album and there is no shortage of 80s stuff. There'd be no shortage of >volunteers to compile the track listings :-) > >Surely PinkFlag.com is the perfect place to relase these? You could almost do >them as CD-Rs to order, at a premium price. Sounds like a good idea. Someone should tell the band! Easy money for them! Presumably copyright isn't an issue otherwise how could they release live versions of Mute/EMI tracks? Ray Wrote: >Because they won't get around to releasing the new Orbital album in the USA >for another couple of months, I've got my copy preordered from Amazon.UK.co, >but I'm still anxious to hear what people have to say about it! If anyone on >the list has heard >the new album, please let me know what you think... if you're ambitious, >give it a full-blown review! Haven't hear it yet but news so far doesn't bode well. Apparently they do a cover of the Doctor Who theme (not the most original idea in the world) and theres a track with David Gray (bland platinum-selling AOR singer) which is serious taste lapse. I think they lost it after the third LP really. They seem to put more effort into their light show than gigs these days, so they are forever doomed to be bill-fillers for outdoor festivals I reckon, like a sort of Techno Tom Robinson Band! Shame really. Katherine Wrote: >I was the only person that I knew until today who owned a Kitchens of >Distinction album. I still listen to it from time to time. The one with >"Drive That Fast" on it. Hey I like em too! Death of the Cool was even better than that one. Bit Cocteaus-esque were'nt they. Chris.Ray wrote: >I only recently got hold of a copy of Cowboys And Aliens. Excellent! Why >were they so overlooked? I think it was a bit of an image problem. Musically they could wipe the floor with House of Love, Lush and all that lot but they were bit too old and fat for the indie kids... Wasn't their singer a Doctor of Medicine as well? Not very rock and roll! Maybe your average NME reader couldn't cope with a man singing gay love songs. Mind you this never did Magnetic Fields any harm did it? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 08:29:38 -0700 (PDT) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: [idealcopy] off topic - playlists They've been doing Where were you for a while now. Well on the last three times I've seen em. No it's not country tinged and it sounds exactly as you'd hope it would. They all live over in the States now. Greil Marcus seems to have cut out for them a larger place in punk rock history than they really merit and they're milking it while they can. Good luck to em I say. John - --- MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > John, > > << The Mekons played here in Leicester a few > months ago at this really small venue The Musician. > > They always play Leicester as their bass player's > family lives here. They played two sets, did all > their hits and I get pissed as a fart and > danced/pogoed to Where Were You? An excellent > night >> > > Oddly a review of the Mekons in Chicago has just > cropped up on the Leeds > United list! > > Amazed they still do Where were you? Is it > country-tinged? And do they still > play Never been in a riot? > > Mark Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 11:38:37 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Bootleg Orbital Kitchens Tim, Kitchens of Distinction were one of those bands that completely passed me by. I think I lumped them in with some other bands under the category of, for want of a better description, "Nice Indie" (see also - Railway Children, Close Lobsters, Lightning Seeds when they started). Bit over-produced, slushy synths in the background, '80s drums etc. Not edgy enough really.... Mark << I think it was a bit of an image problem. Musically they could wipe the floor with House of Love, Lush and all that lot but they were bit too old and fat for the indie kids... Wasn't their singer a Doctor of Medicine as well? Not very rock and roll! >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 11:46:01 EDT From: WAndyComer@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] The Ex...again So...I assume that no one wishes to discuss the Ex? Andy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 17:12:44 +0100 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Bootleg Orbital Kitchens Lightning Seeds. No. No. No. Not edgy? Well OK. But excellent indie pop to be played loud. C MarkBursa@aol.com on 25/04/2001 16:38:37 To: timrobinson@cwcom.net, idealcopy@smoe.org cc: (bcc: Chris Ray/IT/MEDAS) Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Bootleg Orbital Kitchens Tim, Kitchens of Distinction were one of those bands that completely passed me by. I think I lumped them in with some other bands under the category of, for want of a better description, "Nice Indie" (see also - Railway Children, Close Lobsters, Lightning Seeds when they started). Bit over-produced, slushy synths in the background, '80s drums etc. Not edgy enough really.... Mark << I think it was a bit of an image problem. Musically they could wipe the floor with House of Love, Lush and all that lot but they were bit too old and fat for the indie kids... Wasn't their singer a Doctor of Medicine as well? Not very rock and roll! >> The Information in this communication is confidential and may be privileged and should be treated by the recipient accordingly. If you are not the intended recipient please notify me immediately. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose its contents to any other person. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 12:39:55 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Bootleg Orbital Kitchens << Lightning Seeds. No. No. No. Not edgy? Well OK. But excellent indie pop to be played loud. >> Exactly. Nice indie. Made by a stalwart of Nice New Wave. Nice. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 10:38:06 -0700 (PDT) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Ex...again 'Where have all the musicians gone? who made sound disturb who pulled down the stage who forged music into a weapon... where have all the musicians gone? they perform in supermarkets and have their instruments tuned: "Our ears are deaf and our strings are wrapped up in silk, we hurt nobody."' I've got a few Ex LPs and singles. I'd recommend Dead Fish, Pokkeherrie or Aural Guerilla as a starting point. The Spanish Revolution double 7" is worth getting for a bit of yer anarcho history. Basically it's a book with a couple of 7"s stuck in the cover. I was always more interested in the Ex's politics than their 'music'. Dutch Crass? John - --- WAndyComer@aol.com wrote: > So...I assume that no one wishes to discuss the Ex? > Andy Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 19:00:24 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] Bows/L.F.K. fernando wrote:- also, the new Bows is supposed to be superb! cool...any old Long Fin Killie fans out there?? ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 18:59:36 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] Buck Off Ray wrote :- re Peter Buck, Being rich and famous won't keep you from making a fool of yourself, but being rich and famous will certainly allow you to make a fool of yourself on a global scale. won't do the pre-publicity for the new lp any harm either will it?? ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 18:57:25 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] pixies is better fernando, sorry f, but...That Petrol Emotion better than the Pixies???? there were worse bands than T.P.E., i liked some of their tunes, even fell asleep at a gig of theirs once (mind you i had been up for 48 hours before) met Sean, nice guy,........ but please better than the Pixies? er, no. cheers, ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 18:10:15 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] James Brown From: "Ian B" From: John Roberts I used to know James Brown years ago. i always thought he was a bit of a tosser, to be honest. obviously very ambitious, always tried too hard for me, especially when he was blagging me to buy a copy of BZAG at Redskins gigs! ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 18:09:10 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] Smells Like Mersey Trout Graeme wrote :- One of the most deafening gigs I ever saw was Dinosaur Jr (around the time 'Freak Scene' was released) at the Temple St black cave decor Planet X Liverpool. L Barlow would scream between songs and that was all the vocals I could hear. Standing next to the guitar amp might explain why every time Mascis hit the wah wah pedal, everything vanished in a tidal wave of ampnoise, even the drums. me too, graeme!! first time i ever saw them. my ears were fucked for days. the Planet was always a bit too Goth for me, but i saw some great gigs at it's various sites. Graeme also wrote:- Now I recall some amusingly sociopathic customer baiting at Probe. i have a personal one. i went in as a naive 14/15 year old Gang of 4 fan and asked... 'Have you got 'Damaged Goods' ?, quick as a flash, little Norman looked at me and said 'Well...we've got some bent postcards...' i must have spent thousands in that shop since '77, it was almost worth it for all the stick... on the Liverpool live venue subject, the place that followed on from Eric's/Brady's was the Warehouse on Fleet St., that lasted a few years with loads of good gigs, Fall, Birthday Party (which to my eternal regret i missed!), the Chameleons and the Nightingales were particularly notable. Eric's, by the way, was full of rats, probably the old Probe shop basement too. in fact, the whole Mathew St. 'Cavern' quarter is still likely to be... makes me smile when i think of all those posh punters shopping at the Walks with their Italian/whatever ice-creams in the summer. my advice would be to avoid the chocolate chip ones. N.B. - Keith, the old singer with A Witness, is now the bass player for Gold Blade. FOR NON-UK listees...anyone who doesn't know what a Mersey Trout is ? Londoners call them 'Richard The 3rd''s (turds). cheers, ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 19:51:11 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] Dawson andy, re. The Ex/Dog Faced Hermans ever heard of a Scottish band called Dawson? if you like the above, you'll love this lot. saw them once, 5, 6, maybe 7 years ago and i thought they were amazing. the only drawback may be that their releases could be mighty hard to find. i think they were all on their own (or another) tiny label. get 'em, if you see 'em. maybe Graeme or someone else can expand on this? cheers, ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 14:54:45 EDT From: WAndyComer@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Dawson I have heard of, but not heard Dawson...what do you know about them? And does anyone have any of their releases? I am very intrigued by this whole Ex/Dog Faced Hermans "scene," of which bands like the Honkies were also a part. Thanks, Andy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 11:57:01 -0700 From: fernando Subject: [idealcopy] Re: pixies is better Hmmm... I was not asking so much about who is better in an incontrovertible way... I can live with my tastes just fine (since I am the one with the expenses ;-), but I was indeed curious if most people thought that the Pixies were that good, as the press makes them today... and has their stuff held up well... the answers were good to read, as I have never discussed this band with others before, so that was cool. This helps me put their music in context, as I abandoned them after Surfer Rosa (actually, returned the record to the store within a week), and just re-connected... and some of their songs are just amazing.. but it does not hit me as that important, but can understand that others do and Nirvana's testimonial and popularity does help in that regard too. Just because they had a technique that was ripped by a bunch of bands, say like MBV circa Loveless, does not make them a great band in my mind -- but I guess this is not conventional. Not having seen the Pixies live, I could not say in that context how they fare vs/ TPE... but TPE's last show is still vividly in my mind, as well as the well-played recording of that show that I made. (It was at the DNA club in San Francisco.) However, this is just anecdotal, and nothing else. Like it was mentioned, TPE's problems with the record industry is sad, but it does happen to a lot of bands... and there are worth things in the music industry or population -- such as the suppression of black performers through the 50s. cheers! - -fernando At 06:57 PM 4/25/01 +0100, ian jackson wrote: >fernando, > >sorry f, but...That Petrol Emotion better than the Pixies???? >there were worse bands than T.P.E., i liked some of their tunes, >even fell asleep at a gig of theirs once (mind you i had been up >for 48 hours before) met Sean, nice guy,........ >but please better than the Pixies? er, no. > >cheers, ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 14:10:35 -0500 From: "Alyce Ornella" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT sound art stuff >What kind of stuff do you do then? What exactly is a sound artist? >giluz The project that I'm showing tonight is a recording I made in collaboration with 5 other people. It went like this: I recorded a small piece of music played on a keyboard, then gave tape cassesettes of it to two people. They listened to it and re-made their own version of it, using whatever sounds, instruments, and recording method they liked (for example one person used a sampler, guitar, and computer software and the other used a handheld cassette recorder, water, towels, wind, and voice). Those two tracks were mixed down to one, and that was given to a third person. They did their version. That was mixed with one of the previous, and that was given to a fourth person. Then that track was given to the fifth person. Finally, I took all their tracks and mixed them into a brand new recording along with the very first one I did myself. I selected the parts of their tracks that I liked, removed certain parts, processed (put effects on) some of it, left a lot of it alone....(confusing in print...simple in idea). A sound artist I guess is a lot of things. Wire are sound artists in a lot of ways, when they aren't being a rock band (haha). Unfortunately, a lot of kids here in the sound department at my school think House music is sound art (i strongly disagree!). Another name for sound artist could be electro-acoustic musician. But sound art can very much NOT be music at all. It can be the sound of people running up stairs, however the artist choses to use it..... It could be presented on a CD you buy and listen on your stereo, or it could be an installation in a gallery (ick, galleries....) Anyway, I'm just a kid and still figuring it out myself. All I know is I enjoy it a whole lot more than painting. bye, Alyce _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 15:15:04 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Smells Like Mersey Trout Ian, << on the Liverpool live venue subject, the place that followed on from Eric's/Brady's was the Warehouse on Fleet St., that lasted a few years with loads of good gigs, Fall, Birthday Party (which to my eternal regret i missed!), << I didn't. Fantastic gig, as always with the BP. That was the smallest venue I saw them play of the seven or eight times I saw 'em. Got the tape somewhere ;-) Other L'pool venues included Pickwicks and the State (saw the New Order two-nighter there, when the second night was only announced on the night of the first. I think it was free because the gig was oversold. Came on early the second night, and to their credit did a completely different set. There was another club too, a bit plusher than the others (not difficult!) where I also saw the Fall (mid-80) - but I can't remember the name.... >>the Chameleons and the Nightingales were particularly notable. Eric's, by the way, was full of rats, probably the old Probe shop basement too. >> And stereo-thieving rat boys, who leave the aforesaid faux-piscine comestibles on your carpet. Or so I've heard.... (that's enough Liverpool/crime stereotypes - ed. Calm down) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 12:54:55 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: [OT] Pixies picks (was Re: [idealcopy] Re: pixies is better) > I abandoned them after Surfer Rosa (actually, returned >the record to the store within a week), and just re-connected... Yeah, Surfer Rosa is pretty defining for them. I'd say Doolittle as well. Probably my favorite two Pixies albums. Then, Come On Pilgrim and Bossanova a couple of notches below them. Finally, Trompe Le Monde a little below that. Another way to look at it: upward slope from Come On Pilgrim to Surfer Rosa, straight across to Doolittle, then a downward slope from Bossanova thru Trompe Le Monde. They never really made a terrible album, but some were better than others. The new B-sides collection doesn't really fit this model, since the songs are from every period. On its own merits, it might be a little weak, but when you place the b-sides next to the songs on the albums they're pulled from, they fit in quite nicely. Maybe I'd rate it, standalone, like Trompe Le Monde. The only quibble I have with the B-sides collection is there was one A-side that was different than the album version (the original "Planet Of Sound") and it would have been nice to collect that one on the same disc. (They have plenty of space...(^_^)) Also, some of the B-sides were live performances, and those weren't collected either. The "Live at The BBC" collection, on the other hand, really annoys me. The performances are uniformly great, but the whole CD is around 30 minutes, and IT'S MISSING TRACKS!!!! ("Tame" for instance - there's a great version on a bootleg Peel Sessions 7" I have...) Jeez - why be stingy now? The band is long gone, right? I only bought the compilation "Death to the Pixies" CD for the bonus live disc that comes standard in America, so I haven't actually listened to the compilation to see if it's representative or not. It looked okay. The concert is pretty good. I think there's some better live cuts on some of the B-sides of the original singles. "Tame" again springs to mind. I'm Pixies'd out! Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 15:16:31 -0500 From: "ray\)\(o\)\(mac" Subject: [idealcopy] Re:UnSound "giluz" giluz@nettalk.com asked: > What exactly is a sound artist? I am not sure but most of my favorite artists are somewhat unsound. Alyce - Were that I could make it - but my activities are limited these days. Is this , pray tell an ongoing venue? I am really out of the lLoop (being in Portage Park which is much further than Wicker Park). Redirect to http://www.mp3.com/reliblesoundproduct break legs and cables d ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 16:24:52 -0400 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: [idealcopy] An Ideal Copy So I play Too True off Behind The Curtain for my 10-1/2 month old. Typically he bobs back and forth and smiles to things he likes to hear (Kraftwerk,OMD,the vacuum, the dishwasher). When the chorus hits he goes frantic-- rocking back and forth and laughing like a maniac!!!! All this to the dismay of mother. Just thought I would share this proud moment Eric in Toronto ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 22:06:33 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] 80 Sub-Pop #7 & 8 The Stranglers - Thrown Away - Golden Brown A traveller from another planet finally leaves this place we call 'Earth' after realising the human experiment is a failure. He leaves behind four horsemen to conclude the experiment by wiping away the mistake. During the recording of 'The Gospel According to the Meninblack' all kinds of spooky and sinister things happened to the Stranglers. They had unearthed the truth about the second coming of Christ, the four horsemen, UFO's, maneating alien hyperentities and what was really cooking in Keith Floyd's kitchen. They had to give a dire warning to the human race by the only means they knew how: rock pops music! Alien agents disguised as French police disrupted their tour. Big black cars followed Hugh Cornwell wherever he wandered in London town. Studio gear broke down for no reason at all! A witch hired by the aliens cursed them and changed bassist JJ Burnel into a cat and keyboard player Dave Greenfield into a rat. This did little to relieve interband tensions but did inspire many a ditty about nasty ladies in the streets. Cornwell escaped with drummer Jet Black in Jet's old ice cream van, and using a newfangled nuclear device concealed inside a teddy bear and a tape of the Ayatollah played backwards, thwarted the aliens' plans to erase their lowly human spawn. Miraculously the Stranglers overcame these obstacles by taking all the rest of the drugs they'd bought with EMI's blood money. They went on to lucrative chart bigness with a subversive harpsichord harmony ode to the joys of smoking the heroin brown. The grannys and DJ's loved it, perhaps not for entirely different reasons. ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 17:32:32 EDT From: WAndyComer@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] The Ex I think it's a bit of an oversight to reduce the Ex to their politics. Unlike Crass, I would argue, their music has constantly innovated and evolved, and their work with musicians such as Tom Cora and Han Bennink (not to mention much of their own work as a collective) is strikingly layered and passionate. Not that innovation/experimentation/improvisation are separate from politics, but to classify them as a "political band" alongside, say, the Dead Kennedys or Crass, is to overlook the music itself. I think what we come up against is a classic aesthetic argument: that of the relation of "form" and "content." Having spoken extensively with some of the members, I know they are very into Ethiopian music...Has anyone heard the "Ethiopiques" series? I think it's fabulous... Andy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 16:43:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: RE: [idealcopy] [OT] Guitar bands for the 80s (in pop?) On Wed, 25 Apr 2001, giluz wrote: > Oh, that's so boring: I think we're in the midst of what might be called > later on as the reunion era: Anyone that's been in the music biz for more > than 10 years is now reuniting his or her old band. So what ever happened to that one British band with the song about the miner and that other, fast one, called something like "12XU"? You think they might reunite? - -j ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 14:58:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Rick Hindman Subject: RE: [idealcopy] [OT] Guitar bands for the 80s (in pop?) > > Oh, that's so boring: I think we're in the midst > of what might be called > > later on as the reunion era: Anyone that's been in > the music biz for more > > than 10 years is now reuniting his or her old > band. Actually, among most of my music fan friends, we call those the "Putting our kids into college" tour! Hmmm.. that might make some good t-shirts! > So what ever happened to that one British band with > the song about the > miner and that other, fast one, called something > like "12XU"? > > You think they might reunite? Oh, those guys are so contrary! They probably wouldn't unite until it would somehow anger lots of people!! RJH ===== - ----------------------------------------------------------- "Suffering is our experience of the distance between what we are and who we wish to become. - -Robert Fripp - ----------------------------------------------------------- Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 18:17:49 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Bootleg Orbital Kitchens In a message dated 25/04/01 17:45:30 GMT Daylight Time, MarkBursa@aol.com writes: > Exactly. Nice indie. Made by a stalwart of Nice New Wave. > > Nice. > > Mark A bit tough on KOD I think. "Nice" wasn't what my dearly beloved described "Drive That Fast" as it careered towards it's guitar screeching climax on Sunday morning while I was reading IC ers e-mails ! She asked me to turn it down & like a true Ideal Copyist I didn't. I prefer indie acts to have that "edge" you mentioned.Sort of unsettling but retaining a catchiness in the music they produce.The great indie guitar bands are very immediate.But what about the more subtler outfits lauded on the list like Stereolab / They Might Be Giants & alot of electronica? Nice but with a different kind of edge which I find just as exciting. To keep on topic for a change I hope listers have got their postcard from WMO about the Michael O'Shea release.I have the original LP but after reading the release notes I am having that CD ! When I bought the LP I had no idea what to expect & was just mugged by that instrument he played. Also would just like to express my thanks.Shucks! A few months ago now there were several posts on Guided By Voices & sure enough a CD wandered past my fingers recently & I grasped it. It was Do The Collapse. Wow ! First thing I've heard by them & it is great.So there's my raison d'etre (?) for this list.Nice one. Not posted a Chris listening post for a bit.Be inspired. BOARDS OF CANADA -INABEAUTIFULPLACEOUTINTHECOUNTRY - This is still being played to death.It is immense in it's beauty.All 4 tracks are stunning. MOGWAI --FEAR SATAN REMIXES -Kevin Shields My Bloody Valentine Remix is 10 minutes of bliss. JOY DIVISION - THE PEEL SESSIONS STEREOLAB - COBRA & PHASES GROUP PLAY VOLTAGE IN THE MILKY NIGHT SUGAR - BEASTER --Nice Indie ? RADIOHEAD - DRILL EP - No I'm not selling this one, BILL NELSON -MAP OF DREAMS --Quirky Bill as I like him, A CERTAIN RATIO -LIVE IN AMERICA PREFAB SPROUT - STEVE MCQUEEN - great great pop songs. GILBERT/LEWIS - DOME 1 - Cruel When Complete/Rolling Upon My Day/Airmail & Ampnoise.You know when you get that "shiver" when you hear that occasional song which just knocks you for six ? well that one LP produced four seperate shivers (I'm beginning to talk bollocks now but it's late). WIRE - MANNEQUIN 7" - Only because it's been mentioned alot recently so I dug it out.Being 17 in 77 I made it a point of having every Wire single then.I still reckon that picture cover of "Question Of Degree" with the dead man being turned over in the post mortem ranks as cutting edge stuff.That's the thing about Wire,even their covers provoke discussion.IMHO some are cak ( Coatings-Can't be too critical here I suppose / Manscape /IBTABA) yet some are magnificent ( Pink Flag / ABIACUIIS & 154.) I'll go now. Chris ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #126 *******************************