From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #123 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Monday, April 23 2001 Volume 04 : Number 123 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [idealcopy] OT - Feels like 1986! ["Ciscon, Ray" ] [idealcopy] OT - Walking Seeds [John Roberts ] Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Peter Buck in trouble? ["kevin alexander" ] Re: [idealcopy] OT - Feels like 1986! [HeySean@aol.com] RE: [idealcopy] [OT] Guitar bands for the 80s (in pop?) [Paul Pietromonac] Re: [idealcopy] Solo Thurston Moore (Completely Off Topic) [CHRISWIRE@aol] Re: [idealcopy] off topic - playlist [CHRISWIRE@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Guitar bands for the 80s (in pop?) [CHRISWIRE@aol.co] [idealcopy] OT (Smells Like MerseyBeat) [Tim Robinson ] [idealcopy] Joy Division/MOM/Almost OT [Tim Robinson ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 08:27:17 -0500 From: "Ciscon, Ray" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT - Feels like 1986! Sean wrote: Hee hee hee here's one explanation: one of the biggest new wave radio stations in the US was/is KROQ here in so cal and one of its DJ's (England's very own Richard Blade) force-fed thousands upon thousands of impressionable youngsters tripe such as The Fixxx, Wang Chung, ABC, Haircut 100, Flock of Seagulls and Tears For Fears (TFF Richard called them...we referred to him as Dick). He was/is the foremost purveyor of crap music and all these young minds, just waiting to be told what to listen to, listened to him. The more it looked and sounded like one-hit wonder suckass disco spew, the better he liked it and the more he played. ================= Sean, you're forgetting the matter of context and perspective. When you recognize that the VAST MAJORITY of radio stations were NOT playing this stuff, but instead were playing endless loops of REO Speedwagon, Journey, Foreigner, etc. After hearing years of that crap just about ANYTHING that sounded a bit different was GOOD. The bands listed above may not rank amongst the immortals of 80's music, but they sounded different than the crap we normally heard. Plus, you can't forget that amongst the bands listed above, we would occasionally hear bands with a bit more artistic credibility, i.e. New Order, The Cure, B.A.D., etc. Please take the time to put things in context. Whenever you begin to think that the eighties were bad musically, just turn on American Top 40 radio today, and you'll see what bad really is. Cheers, Ray ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 07:09:18 -0700 (PDT) From: John Roberts Subject: [idealcopy] OT - Walking Seeds > John on 'Know Too Much' > >>>>I don't know who produced this WalkingSeeds > record. Was it Kramer? > > No, it was Freddy Viaduct also guilty of Half Man > Half > Biscuit's 'Trumpton Riots' (an old favourite of mine > which doesn't get a lot of turntable time these > days). > Both are very overloaded and brutal. > > Kramer did the 'Upwind of Disaster' and 'Bad Orb, > Whirling Ball' albums. What a great damaged psyche > freakrock outfit they were. Takes me back to those > heady Planet X Liverpool days. > > It might not be well known that three of them > regrouped not so long ago as Rhombus of Doom and > recorded a brilliant mostly instrumental (but still > mental) album. Graeme: For HMHB you need the This Leaden Pall album. Walking Seeds: used to speak to Bob a lot when I worked at the Cartel. He used to work in the Probe Shop. Saw em a couple of times- once in Brum supporting Das Damen (horrible long hairs) and their own gig at the Charlotte. Bad Orb is the one I've got. They also did some stuff as the Del Bloods in the early 90s. Planet X? I went there once (with the lot from Probe). Ride were playing tho thankfully we missed them. The place was swimming in piss. Horrible. John Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 11:47:28 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT- Crass were anti-pasti really on the bill at a crass gig? i thought they were in the exploited camp. p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 09:03:45 -0700 (PDT) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT- Crass I think Anti Pasti were more like Discharge in that they had a politically involved singer/writer and a bunch of punk/metal/skinheads behind. Anti Pasti did release the classic No Government:'Brew your own its about to ferment/No Maggie Thatcher and no government'. They were no way as bad as the Exploited. I saw them on the same bill as the Exploited once with Discharge and Chron Gen too. What a gig. Anti Pasti may well have played on the same bill as Crass in the earlier days. Although they had a firm roster of support acts to choose from by the time I saw them: D&V, Flux, Annie Anxiety, Andy T and No Defences. John - --- PaulRabjohn@aol.com wrote: > were anti-pasti really on the bill at a crass gig? i > thought they were in the exploited camp. p Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 19:25:16 -0000 From: "kevin alexander" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Peter Buck in trouble? Yep...He was arrested after assaulting some British Airways crew members in flight. he is to appear in court today. Kevin-- >From: "Paul Pietromonaco" >To: "IdealCopy" >Subject: [idealcopy] [OT] Peter Buck in trouble? >Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 13:42:39 -0700 > >Hiya! > >Hey - the BBC is reporting that Peter Buck was arrested. Is this true? >Peter lives in Seattle, now, so this is of some interest to me. > >Cheers, >Paul > >http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/entertainment/music/newsid_1290000/1290231. >stm > >*********************************************************** > > Brain: "That's brilliant Pinky!!...and Larry... > ...Are You Pondering What I'm Pondering?" > > Pinky: "I think so Larry...and Brain...but how > can we get 7 dwarfs to shave their legs?" > > Paul Pietromonaco > Test Engineer - Reflection X > WRQ, Inc. > E-Mail: paulp@wrq.com > >*********************************************************** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 19:28:39 -0000 From: "kevin alexander" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Peter Buck in trouble? Yep...He was arrested for assaulting British Airways' crew members on a flight from Seattle to London yesterday. He is supposed to appear in court today. Kevin-- >From: "Paul Pietromonaco" >To: "IdealCopy" >Subject: [idealcopy] [OT] Peter Buck in trouble? >Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 13:42:39 -0700 > >Hiya! > >Hey - the BBC is reporting that Peter Buck was arrested. Is this true? >Peter lives in Seattle, now, so this is of some interest to me. > >Cheers, >Paul > >http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/entertainment/music/newsid_1290000/1290231. >stm > >*********************************************************** > > Brain: "That's brilliant Pinky!!...and Larry... > ...Are You Pondering What I'm Pondering?" > > Pinky: "I think so Larry...and Brain...but how > can we get 7 dwarfs to shave their legs?" > > Paul Pietromonaco > Test Engineer - Reflection X > WRQ, Inc. > E-Mail: paulp@wrq.com > >*********************************************************** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 14:42:55 -0500 From: "Ciscon, Ray" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] [OT] Peter Buck in trouble? Kevin wrote: Yep...He was arrested after assaulting some British Airways crew members in flight. he is to appear in court today. ======================== Being a large, OK fat, member of the species that has flown from Chicago to London coach/economy class, I find it EXTREMELY DIFFICULT to have any sympathy at all for rich, pampered actors/rock stars who fly in first class and get upset because the flight nurse (slipping in a Wire reference!), has cut them off on liquor. Not that that's what happened , but I'm sure it's something just as silly. Being rich and famous won't keep you from making a fool of yourself, but being rich and famous will certainly allow you to make a fool of yourself on a global scale. Cheers, Ray Ciscon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 13:00:32 -0700 From: fernando Subject: [idealcopy] [OT] Guitar bands for the 80s (in pop?) Well, it seems that no matter where I turn these days, there is something new/old from the Pixies. Good band, and sure they have gotten a nice ride from the Nirvana quotes for their style (in a way, ripped off). Very nice to always a band get some justice -- I do like their stuff. But, to me, I think that That Petrol Emotion put out better records/songs... even if not influencing 317.13 bands in the 90s. Yeah, this is an opinion... but it seems that the Petrols lack of widespread success is more at the recording business trials and tribulations, unlike the Pixies who had 4ad most of their lives. Do people in this list think that the Pixies were really *the* guitar band, in some quick pop sense (so as not compare to the more off-center bands like The Chameleons, House of Love, or even My Bloody Valentine). - -fernando ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 13:19:10 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: RE: [idealcopy] [OT] Guitar bands for the 80s (in pop?) >Do people in this list think that the Pixies >were really *the* guitar band, >in some quick pop sense Yes. (A quick, pop answer! (^_^)) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 13:37:41 -0700 From: fernando Subject: RE: [idealcopy] [OT] Guitar bands for the 80s (in pop?) I heard that everything pop was a bit quick/faddish... but this answer takes the cake ;o) Is the answer that obvious? No other band comes close? - -f. At 01:19 PM 4/23/01 -0700, Paul Pietromonaco wrote: > >Do people in this list think that the Pixies > >were really *the* guitar band, > >in some quick pop sense > >Yes. > >(A quick, pop answer! (^_^)) > >Cheers, >Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 15:59:40 -0500 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] Solo Thurston Moore (Completely Off Topic) >From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= >Michael>>>>I kind of like the way he just gets >together w/ people, plays, and puts the recording out. > This perhaps is an attempt to follow free-jazz >traitions rather than album rock? > >Michael was talking about Thurston Moore rather than >William Shatner of course... >What are your favourite Thurston Moore recordings? >Can you give a short description of each? I can try. As w/ Band of Susans, no Thurston Moore album stands out as the best for me. I'm going to put them in groups to save repetition. All opinions are mine, including descriptions; nothing is certain: "free-jazz": Hurricane Floyd (w/ Wally Shoup, Toshi Makihara) The Promise (w/ Evan Parker, Walter Prati) Barefoot in the Head (w/ Jim Sauter, Don Dietrich) Shambala (w/ William Hooker--T.M. on 1st 1/2 only) The above is my order of preference, but as the Promise brings him together w/ E. P., it's a bigger deal. All are free jams, sometimes very noisy, sometimes very quiet. The lat 2 are not personal favorites. Please Leave Me (My Paul Desmond) Piece for Yvonne Rainer Both "at home guitar experiments"... a lot of amp noise. T. also did a piece like this for an album he split w/ the Golden Calves (and others) and on a 45 for Table of the Elements. Names escape me at the moment, but can check if anyone wants. Doodling, but creatively. Toronto Noise Festival (solo) In Store (w/ Nels Cline) Piece for Jetson Dolma (w/ Tom Surgal and William Winant) Foot (w/ Don Fleming) Kill all Spin Personnel (w/ Beck and Tom Surgal) Again, more or less in order, but the first 3 in particular are prime solo TM for me. Rock approached as if it were free jazz. Very noisy, esp. 1,3, +4. The TNF is part of a box set, and contains some of his most out playing anywhere. mmmr (w/ Loren Mazzanne Connors and others--including Lee) Pillowwand (Nels Cline) Klangfarbenmelodie (w/ Tom Surgal) Not Me (w/ Tom Surgal) Similar to the 5 above, but more ambient, overall. Songs We Taught Our Lord Vol.2 (w/ Phil X. Milstein--vol. 1 never released) Electricity v. Insects (w/ Prick Decay) Thurston plays feedback over tape loops. Much more obviously a part of #1. So, yeah, he does put out a lot of stuff. This list is not complete. Would it be better if he released less? Depends on who is selecting and who is listening. I'm glad to have it all. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:24:59 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] off topic - playlist as it's been quiet on the playlist front during the last week or two, here's last weeks listening (well, most of it) at Fort Jackson... Gang Of Four - Peel Sessions LP Bonnie 'Blue' Billy - EP David Essex - Rock On 7" Robert Wyatt - Dondestan Joy Division - Still Cabaret Voltaire - Seconds Too Late 7" Charles Mingus - Mingus Um Ah Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds - Live At The R.A.H. Led Zeppelin - IV Asian Dub Foundation - Buzzin' EP John Cage - Sonatas & Preludes for Prepared Piano Palace Brothers - Arise, Therefore Badly Drawn Boy - EP3 Half Man Half Biscuit - Trouble Over Bridgwater Rachel's - Selenography Cat Power - Moon Pix Don Caballero - Singles Breaking Up Island 40th Anniversary Series - Vol.2, 1964-1969, Rhythm & Blues Beat Pere Ubu - Pennsylvania The Fall - The Marshall Suite Suicide - 1st & 2nd LP's Joe Gibbs Mood - The Amalgamated Label, 1968-1971 The Pixies - At The BBC The Birthday Party - Live 81-82 Paul Newman - Only Love Can Break Your Heart Devo - Be Stiff 7" Nick Lowe - Heart Of The City 7" Pussy Galore - Sugarshit Sharp enough, for now, i think, therefore..... my ears hurt.....ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 17:29:36 EDT From: HeySean@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - Feels like 1986! In a message dated 4/23/2001 6:43:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time, rciscon@comark.com writes: > Sean, you're forgetting the matter of context and perspective. When you > recognize that the VAST MAJORITY of radio stations were NOT playing this > stuff, but instead were playing endless loops of REO Speedwagon, Journey, > Foreigner, etc. > LOL I am NOT forgetting that at all....here in LA the other DJs (the Swedish Eagle, Rodney on the Roq, etc) on KROQ did play the quality new music of the time. Another station, out of Long Beach, KNAC, played Wire music OTHER than 12XU, and 99.1 (the X) out of San Diego played cutting edge music as well. It was this Friggin' Richard Blade asswipe who played the MOST annoying one minute wonder crap.. The only reason he would play anything half-way decent was because listeners who had heard it elsewhere would request it. It was actually an ongoing situation at the station where the other DJs felt he was pandering to the lowest common denominator and what did we end up with: shopping mall punk (mommy buy me a new safety pin). so how's THAT for perspective? LOL ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 16:16:21 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: RE: [idealcopy] [OT] Guitar bands for the 80s (in pop?) At 01:19 PM 4/23/01 -0700, Paul Pietromonaco wrote: >>>Do people in this list think that the Pixies >>>were really *the* guitar band, >>>in some quick pop sense >> >>Yes. >> >>(A quick, pop answer! (^_^)) > >I heard that everything pop was a bit quick/faddish >... but this answer takes the cake ;o) > >Is the answer that obvious? No other band comes close? Hi everyone, Sorry about my attempt at humor (^_^;) - but I couldn't help myself. As for the Pixies position in the overall scheme of things, I think they will be remembered for the strangeness they brought to pop music. Initially, Black Francis sounded unlike anything I'd ever heard, shrieking against guitars that revved like 64 funny cars at a speedway competition. I can't say the same for That Petrol Emotion, for instance. Yes, That Petrol Emotion were very talented (some of the best live shows I've ever seen, actually), and yes they got the short end of the stick from their record label, and they had some great guitar work, but so did Swervedriver, Hammerbox, and a number of other great, lost bands. No - the Pixies really stood out, IMHO. That isn't to say that everything they ever did was timeless, but the tracks that really clicked sound like they came out of somewhere else. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 19:28:27 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Solo Thurston Moore (Completely Off Topic) In a message dated 23/04/01 22:11:30 GMT Daylight Time, mflaher3@triton.cc.il.us writes: > So, yeah, he does put out a lot of stuff. This list is not complete. > Would it be better if he released less? Depends on who is selecting and > who is listening. I'm glad to have it all. > > Michael Flaherty > Now Ideal Copiers I for one am intrigued & will hunt out said Thurston for closer examination.I'll report back... Thanks Michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 19:49:23 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] off topic - playlist In a message dated 23/04/01 22:38:08 GMT Daylight Time, iansjackson@hotmail.com writes: > Badly Drawn Boy - EP3 > A good friend of mine went to see this chap at the Albert Hall recently & was bowled over."A strange egotistical but beautiful performance" he described it as. I just sipped my pint. He has since gone on a bender buying lots of his stuff.He is desperate for his first 3 EP's. To be honest (I must be concentrating too much on "weird music") I have not heard a thing by this bloke at all. Is he any good? Is he Neil Young with a beard? Is he Mr Hype ? Or (and honestly I have not heard A THING by him ) can he write a nice tune,play the guitar with reasonable dexterity & haggle for some modicum of perfection from his backing group.But hang on a minute lots of guys & gals tried that path to glory. My friend stated that he stopped songs half way through because he wan't satisfied with some nuance in the tune (his perogative I suppose !). I like the name though.More hip than his real one. Now where's that John Martyn LP ? Chris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 20:07:00 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Guitar bands for the 80s (in pop?) In a message dated 24/04/01 00:26:48 GMT Daylight Time, paulp@wrq.com writes: > . Yes, That Petrol > Emotion were very talented (some of the best live shows I've ever seen, > actually), and yes they got the short end of the stick from their record > label, and they had some great guitar work, but so did Swervedriver, > Hammerbox, and a number of other great, lost bands Paul I really rate Swervedriver. My goodness me, they could give it some.I won't rant but their early albums really do have some excellent guitar work. I just want to throw in "Kitchens Of Distinction" who I also rate very highly & am currently having "Stephen Hero" e-mails pasted at me every other month. Drive That Fast - a gem of a song. Talking of the Leeds area I think"Red Lorry Yellow Lorry" deserves a seperate e-mail.Although Paul Rabjohn ( I think) did give them a passing mention many months ago, I still rate their"Paint Your Wagon" album a major place in my collection. Rips your head off when you're in the right mood. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 01:10:17 +0100 From: Tim Robinson Subject: [idealcopy] OT (Smells Like MerseyBeat) Cracked Machine wrote: > Takes me back to those >heady Planet X Liverpool days. Oooh Planet X! I used to go there 10 years ago and it smelt of danger! The danger was pure scouse rock & roll scuzz, combined with the real physical danger of electrocution from the dodgy lights/PA, and the risk of contracting all manner of diseases from the Irvine Welsh designed toilets. I recall the 'urinal' was a metal tray overflowing with piss, and the actual toilet was a shard of porcelain rising from the floor where the bog used to be before it was kicked away in a night of punky excess. It was a brilliantly horrible place! You could always tell when someone had been to the Planet by the filth caked on their clothes. I seem to recall they sold food which I ate! I was too young for Erics but I hear it was the same sort of thing. > Probe records in Liverpool might be >able to sort you out with a copy - The old Probe in Matthew Street was fantastic (the new one isn't bad but...) and it was the kind of shop where one felt inspired to really explore and find something new. This was mainly because of the fear of the snorts of derision that would follow if you bought a Farm record or something! Bought 154 from here and my fist CAN lp and all sorts of ear bending stuff for an impressionable teenager. Its now a vile clothes shop in the so-called 'Cavern Quarter', a bunch of wanky boutiques in tribute to the Beatles who loved wanky boutiques and once opened their own! I remember when it was forced to close by the leaseholders and the still utterly clueless Liverpool Planning Dept. and the staff plastered the walls with graffiti including a few hints as to why the shop always smelt a bit musty....something to do with the basement! Maybe Rory Storm and the Hurricanes were still down there rehearsing for a gig at the Cavern....... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 00:16:03 -0000 From: "kevin alexander" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: please stop sending me all this shit Sorry, I didn't realize I sent the same message twice....that's what I get for trying to jump into the fray. Back to the sidelines for me. Kevin-- >From: bass681@netscape.net (Austin ) >To: kevin__alexander@hotmail.com >Subject: please stop sending me all this shit >Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 17:08:20 -0400 > >please stop sending me all this shitplease stop sending me all this shitplease stop sending me all this shitplease stop sending me all this shitplease stop sending me all this shitplease stop sending me all this shit >"kevin alexander" wrote: > > > > Yep...He was arrested after assaulting some British Airways crew members > > in flight. he is to appear in court today. > > > > > > > > Kevin-- > > > > >From: "Paul Pietromonaco" >To: "IdealCopy" >Subject: [idealcopy] [OT] > > Peter Buck in trouble? >Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 13:42:39 -0700 > >Hiya! > > > >Hey - the BBC is reporting that Peter Buck was arrested. Is this true? > > >Peter lives in Seattle, now, so this is of some interest to me. > > > >Cheers, >Paul > > > >http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/entertainment/music/newsid_1290000/1290231. > > >stm > >*********************************************************** > > > > Brain: "That's brilliant Pinky!!...and Larry... > ...Are You Pondering > > What I'm Pondering?" > > Pinky: "I think so Larry...and Brain...but how > > > can we get 7 dwarfs to shave their legs?" > > Paul Pietromonaco > Test > > Engineer - Reflection X > WRQ, Inc. > E-Mail: paulp@wrq.com > > > >*********************************************************** > > > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 20:30:04 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] off topic - badly drawn "boy" Chris, << Is he any good? Is he Neil Young with a beard? Is he Mr Hype ?<< A slack-arsed waste of space. With a smelly hat. >> Or (and honestly I have not heard A THING by him ) can he write a nice tune,play the guitar with reasonable dexterity & haggle for some modicum of perfection from his backing group.<< No. >>But hang on a minute lots of guys & gals tried that path to glory. My friend stated that he stopped songs half way through because he wan't satisfied with some nuance in the tune (his perogative I suppose !).<< Probably fell asleep. Like the audience. >> I like the name though.More hip than his real one.<< Nicked from Viz comic >> Now where's that John Martyn LP ? >> John Martyn's bluesy folky jazzy noodling is played with far more talent, humour and energy than BDB. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 20:43:22 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT (Smells Like MerseyBeat) Tim, << I was too young for Erics but I hear it was the same sort of thing. Certainly was, though the bogs were slightly better. Erics was originally the New Cavern (which bore no resemblance to a Cavern except it was in a basement. Sweaty/pissy floor etc. Low roof and stage. Only went there a couple of times (it changed its name to Bradys, then it shut. No improvements were made to the Decor). Saw the Fall there once and some other gig which I cannot for the life of me remember. > Probe records in Liverpool might be >able to sort you out with a copy - The old Probe in Matthew Street was fantastic (the new one isn't bad but...) and it was the kind of shop where one felt inspired to really explore and find something new. This was mainly because of the fear of the snorts of derision that would follow if you bought a Farm record or something! Bought 154 from here and my fist CAN lp and all sorts of ear bending stuff for an impressionable teenager. Its now a vile clothes shop in the so-called 'Cavern Quarter', << What a shame. The old shop on the corner was really great. Pete Burns out of Dead or Alive used to work there, with his missus, who looked exactly the same as him. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 18:22:33 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: Post Whore >ps> the "rest" of DUGGA is available on the WMO site as a FREE MP3 download. >Look under LINKS. >http://www.wiremailorder.com By the way - I don't know if this was discussed before, (I'm still working through the backlog of IdealCopy messages that I missed for the 10 days I was in Japan) but who are the artists on the DUGGA outtakes? I'm enjoying it quite a bit. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 02:42:21 +0100 From: Tim Robinson Subject: [idealcopy] Joy Division/MOM/Almost OT Seeing as we're all waaaaaay off topic here's a couple more of my occasional Wire-compatible album reviews. Apologies to those who I bore.....scroll away. Mouse on Mars - Idiology Another great band with a stupid name, ( See Super Furry Animals, Gorkys Zygoti Mynci, The Beach Boys etc). However, as they are German, you can shorten the name to MOM and then it sounds like a really cool 70s Krautrock band doesn't it ?! I loved the first album, but they were starting to get bit samey, so I didn't expect this to be any good, but its great! It Starts off kind of warped UKGarage/Gabba techno, then goes into pastoral, harmonic whimsy with squelchy bass and flutes then into string drenched off-kilter lushness which sounds a bit like Brian Wilson producing Tortoise for a couple of tracks, then back to distorted, breakneck silly techno bounce, then it becomes kind of Kraut-Ska (i kid ye not) , before moving into strange spoken-word thing and then onto techno-exotica. Its a belter! Christ on a bike, even Graeme might like it! :) Joy Division - Les Bains Douches. OK I was cynical about this a few weeks back on-list but this second and apparently final dip into the archives is really........LOUD!. This LP finds JD really firing on all cylinders, the earth-shifting, growling, snarling, sizzling monster I'd love to have seen if I hadn't been 8 when Ian died. And amazingly if you push up 15+ Khz on your EQ it sounds half decent as well. You also get a few slightly muffled tracks from another Paris gig, and some bits of the Eindhoven gig which was the only bootleg I had of theirs as a kid and has a perfect Autosuggestion! Great Peter Saville (directed) sleeve as usual and daft sleevnotes by Wilson of course. If you only buy one slightly unneccesary Joy Division fanboy/girl thing in your life make it this one! As Wilson infers in the sleeve notes, it shits on yer Eminem, yer Limp Biscuits et al.......... Can we have some edgy, early New Order stuff now please? Someone tell Wire to release some decent early live stuff! Bootlegs are crap! Oh and the New Order DVD (316) is good too! Its the Taras Shevchenko video, remixed in stereo, featuring stroppy young Barney struggling to fill Ians shoes and Gillian Gilbert's amazing 'big-hair', plus some brilliantly pre-Blue Monday experiments in Drum Machine and fuzzy guitar angst. I admire Martin Hannet but hear this and see how he wore down those songs on Movement to a shadow of their live counterparts. You also get an interview, which shows that the 21st century version of the band are as awkward and irritable as ever..shakily filmed by Michael Shamberg. You then get most of their Reading 98 Comeback which isn't too bad (despite Barney dancing like Bez's pissed uncle at a wedding). Their version of Atmosphere is quite moving and the breakbeat version of Isolation is the great NO single that never was....even professional lager lout Keith Allen can't ruin World In Motion at the end........well not quite. Alas I hear they are touring the US with Moby soon.......senility must be setting in! Depeche Mode - Exciter Wahaay! Only joking....or am I? Don't want to pre-empt this before I've heard it but I read that the producer was Mark Bell who used to be in the mighty Warp duo LFO and is partly responsible for one of the greatest electronic records ever made (LFO's underated second LP Advance which is one of the main reasons my band exists). DM haven't made a decent record since Walking in My Shoes in 1993 but you never know. Maybe they will do something to rival Shaky, Crass and Bonnie Tyler :) (Pil are excluded due to the Metal Box) And next week theres a new Mogwai album and a new Autechre album which unless am I asked not to, I shall review for you all! Hurray! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 18:58:09 -0700 From: fernando Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Joy Division/MOM/Almost OT At 02:42 AM 4/24/01 +0100, Tim Robinson wrote: >Joy Division - Les Bains Douches. >OK I was cynical about this a few weeks back on-list but this second and >apparently final dip into the archives is really........LOUD!. Can't find this around here yet... but I hear that the Dutch tracks are of lesser quality than the bootlegs. I remember that the album notes (on the bootleg) stated that the original recorded tape was sent to Factory for release. I am speculating that Peter has the tapes (as he has all the live stuff) and would not cooperate with Wilson on this release. There is also a new live Killing Joke album on the same label... any word on it? It is supposed to be from the Nighttime tour, so I am hoping to catch that one... unless it is as bad as the other live album released a bit ago. >Oh and the New Order DVD (316) is good too! ... >Alas I hear they are touring the US with Moby soon.......senility must be >setting in! The shows have been announced on the area one website. NewOrder is playing the 4 gigs in the west in the month of July. >Depeche Mode - Exciter > >Wahaay! Only joking....or am I? >Don't want to pre-empt this before I've heard it but I read that the >producer was Mark Bell who used to be in the mighty Warp duo LFO and is >partly responsible for one of the greatest electronic records ever made >(LFO's underated second LP Advance which is one of the main reasons my >band exists). This was the album that convinced me to give Techno a chance, actually. It remains my favorite album in the whole "electronica" sound of the 90s. Not as keen on the first album of theirs, though good. Also liked his work on Bjork's Homogenic album, where they used one of the Advance tracks. I may also have to give a listen the 'mode... better choice in producer than New Order's... for which I am not as excited as usual. >And next week theres a new Mogwai album and a new Autechre album which >unless am I asked not to, I shall review for you all! Hurray! The Orbital album will also be out... good review in Mojo... also, the new Bows is supposed to be superb! cheers! - -fernando PS I hope that Austin guy has managed to unsub from the list... it looks like someone sub'ed him without knowing. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 19:17:55 -0700 (PDT) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Guitar bands for the 80s (in pop?) I remember seeing That Petrol Emotion several times in Leicester. I was getting a bit peed off with guitar bands at that time (though the Pixies were a breath of fresh air in that resepect - I love em) but I remember coming away from a TPE gig at Leics Poly with a renewed faith in guitars. They were really that good. Later I discovered Beefheart and saw where they ripped off all their riffs but I would recommend TPE's Babble LP to anyone. Its even produced by Roli Mosimann of Swans fame - not that you'd guess it from listening to it. At the Poly gig they had to put up with the Student Union display board proclaiming that the Union didn't agree with band's politics re: Northern Ireland. I met a couple of once via Mary of Gaye Bykers on Acid now in Apollo 440. They were really friendly blokes. > > . Yes, That Petrol > > Emotion were very talented (some of the best live > shows I've ever seen, > > actually), and yes they got the short end of the > stick from their record > > label, and they had some great guitar work, but so > did Swervedriver, > > Hammerbox, and a number of other great, lost bands Swervedriver were that sort of Stooges rip off lot weren't they? > I just want to throw in "Kitchens Of Distinction" > who I also rate very > highly & am currently having "Stephen Hero" e-mails > pasted at me every other > month. > Drive That Fast - a gem of a song. Anecdote: When I worked at the Cartel one of the old One Little Indian tour packages stayed at my house in Warwick. I use to rent it with one of the blokes who worked in Nine Mile Distribution. We had all three of the new bands signed to One Little Indian: KOD, Sleeping Dogs Wake and Anna Palma all staying. They were all really nice people. As were Loop who also kipped over one night. James went on to work at Rough Trade - anyone know him/them? Really nice bloke. I next bumped into Patrick from KOD at a One Little Indian party at the Borderline in London. They'd had a Sugarcubes secret gig (see HMHB) with a party afterwards. I couldn't believe it: Not only a free bar but I was dancing next to John Lydon in full PiL gear and two of Crass were standing at the edge of the dance floor. All my heroes. Amazing. I walked off the dance floor and spotted Patrick. So I looked over a few times. I could tell he was looking a bit nervous - obviously released that I wasn't looking at him in *that* way. In the end I walked over and said hello and reminded him that he'd stayed at our house in our Warwick. He gave this huge sigh of relief and admitted that he'd been crappping himself when I looked over at him because he thought I was Steve Albini!!! I must point out that at this time I had a shaved head. Only saw them the once in Brum. I don't know how they managed it but they managed to get their swirling guitar on stage too. Why do I like them: I think they remind me of the Outdoor Miner side of Wire. John Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 19:28:34 -0700 (PDT) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Joy Division/MOM/Almost OT - --- Tim Robinson wrote: > Seeing as we're all waaaaaay off topic here's a > couple more of my > occasional Wire-compatible album reviews. Apologies > to those who I > bore.....scroll away. I've got no problem with waaaaaay off topic stuff meself. We're all here for the same reason. But to bring it back on line I think you've made a v good point. > > Someone tell Wire to release some decent early live > stuff! Bootlegs are > crap! > Too bloody right 8-) How long has that pinkflag website been up now? And not a hint of some decent quality MP3s. Come on Colin et al - pull yr finger out - you only only have to put them up there for a little while - mail the details to this list exclusively - you know it makes sense. BTW - thanks to Graham and wmo for the links to the Chicago gig. John Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 19:45:26 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: RE: [idealcopy] [OT] Guitar bands for the 80s (in pop?) >I met a couple of [That Petrol Emotion] once via Mary of Gaye Bykers on >Acid now in Apollo 440. They were really friendly blokes. Seattle connection: The lead singer of That Petrol Emotion, Steve Mack, was from Bellevue, WA, a "suburb" (although they claim they're not) of Seattle. He living here again now, working for Real Networks, I believe. He's also in a new band featuring Harris Thurmond (sp?), the guitarist from Hammerbox. It turns out that Steve can actually write pretty decent tunes, but with the members of the Undertones in the band, he never really got a chance. (I mean - it's the Undertones. I would have let them write too, if I were Steve.) His new band is called Anodyne in the U.S., and something like Marfa Lights in the U.K. Haven't heard too much from them lately - they were playing all over Seattle for a while. Steve's a really nice guy. Gets a little sheepish when you mention That Petrol Emotion - maybe he's thinking about the dreadlocks he used to have. (^_^). I got to meet Steve when Anodyne opened up for Swervedriver, which brings us to the next topic. >Swervedriver were that sort of Stooges rip off lot >weren't they? Oooh - that smarts. (^_^) Yes, okay, in their early days, they tended to sound like the Stooges. But, by their last couple of albums, Ejector Seat Reservation, and 99th Dream, you would hardly recognize them from their heavy riffage of the past. Their sound had turned into a kind of psychedlic maelstrom "light". Not heavy, but 60's-ish paisley, if you can believe it. Their lead singer, Adam Franklin, went on to start a group called "Toshack Highway" which is even more 60's-ish sounding. (http://www.toshackhighway.com) I'm an active member of the Swerverdriver mailing list. They're probably my second favorite band, next to Wire. By the way - I'm not contradicting my Pixies statements earlier. I think in terms of raw inventiveness, the Pixies are way up there. However, I tend to like Swervedriver more, even if they're not quite as inventive. Eh - maybe I'm a closet Stooges fan, after all. (^_^) I got a lust for life, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 19:50:06 -0700 (PDT) From: John Roberts Subject: [idealcopy] OT - Shriekback Not that I ever liked em but this appeared on the latest Rough Trade mailing and I know you listees like em: shriekback abrasions 81-84 cd 12.99 a post punk supergroup featuring dave allen(gang of four),barry andrews(xtc,iggy pop,robert fripp) and carl marsh(out on blue six) with an album of furious experimentation from the 80s.includes 9 never released before gems.cd only John Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #123 *******************************