From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #111 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Friday, April 13 2001 Volume 04 : Number 111 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] post-whore [Wireviews ] [idealcopy] Re:ATP and Old Guys ["ray\)\(o\)\(mac" ] Re: [idealcopy] post-whore ["ian jackson" ] [idealcopy] off topic - the defence of 'dreck' ["ian jackson" ] [idealcopy] GilbertPossStenger [=?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= ] [idealcopy] Syarzhuk Kazachenka -The Ruts ["scott kellock" Subject: [idealcopy] post-whore "This is when I wish it were possible to afford to put out a Wire covers cd of my own. I was in a band that used to (try to) do "Practise Makes Perfect" and "Outdoor Miner". I'd like to be able to get other Idealcopyists to do covers. Wouldn't that be great?" My old band used to cover Marooned, although there is no recording of this. I was quite good, although a tad more minimal that Wire's original. I also did an awful version of Up to the Sun on one of my old tapes, but that's staying well under lock and key :) C ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. Snub.Comms: http://welcome.to/snub Veer Audio: http://listen.to/veer - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 08:18:19 -0500 From: "ray\)\(o\)\(mac" Subject: [idealcopy] Re:ATP and Old Guys this subject comes up from time to time, but in ref to the comment about wire and television being more exciting/interesting than the 'younger' acts 1. in whose eyes/ears? being forty-something myself, i tend to share those perceptions, but do not assume that 20-somethings do 2. if you cannot do it better after 25 years - you really shoulda kept the day job david ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 15:17:44 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] post-whore i'll own up to a cover of 'Their Terrain' with a couple of mates. it's just a live rehearsal cassette and noone is ever going to hear it, mainly because i'm doing the vocals. ian.s.j. >From: Wireviews >My old band used to cover Marooned, although there is >no recording of this. I was quite good, although a tad >more minimal that Wire's original. I also did an awful >version of Up to the Sun on one of my old tapes, but >that's staying well under lock and key :) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 15:26:37 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] off topic - the defence of 'dreck' a big thank you to a Mr.G.Rowland of Manchester for his defence of so-called dreck in this months The Wire. as someone who missed the chance of seeing Wire, circa 77'78, several times for the sum of 50p or #1, i console myself with the fact that i saw The Lurkers about 4 times for the same amounts. if David Keenan really knew all his stuff, he would have known that the Stranglers are much revered in places like Chicago (eg, major influence on Big Black), cheers graeme, regards ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 11:07:55 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:ATP and Old Guys in ref to the comment about wire and television being more exciting/interesting than the 'younger' acts 1. in whose eyes/ears? being forty-something myself, i tend to share those perceptions, but do not assume that 20-somethings do ///// well i was just quoting various reviws i'd read. i suspect NME reviewers are a lot nearer 20 than 40? 2. if you cannot do it better after 25 years - you really shoulda kept the day job //// umm , i think very few bands sound better after 5 years , let alone 25. experience is something but youth/vitality/looks all tend to be a big part of great acts and (so i'm told) they fade. of course there are some great "mature" acts but also a lot of guys who maybe should have packed it in some time ago but keep doing it for the cash. my point was that i'd have expected some bright young things to have stolen those shows rather than guys old enough to be their parents.p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 10:09:30 -0500 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] Re: But No, Is Art In A Dome Rut >From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= >'Ab Ovo' was really a perspective shifting experience >for me, perhaps more so than any other Wire related >release. It was really this disc that made me realise >that there was quite a bit more to music than guitar >rock! I had the exact same experience with Shivering Man! (I'm a bit older than you :)). If Eno and Fripp were my door into "less commercial Music," Bruce Gilbert pushed me into the deep end--for which I thank him. > >>>>I guess I'm a NewmanOid and Graeme is a >Gilbertoid! > >Actually I think they make a lot of their best sounds >together. I'm sure we all agree on that! The way the >Gilbert and Newman guitars work off/against each other >could be the most important apsect of what makes Wire >such a great group for me! I like solo Wire as much as Wire together. But generally I agree. In my continued praise of Bruce on this list I'm always careful not to slag Colin. True, his solo work appeals to me the least of the 3, but that's just a matter of taste, and, more importantly, has nothing to do with Wire's recordings. >Michael Flaherty said of Dome > >>>>I hear more Bruce than I do Graham in a lot of it. > For me, the only "reliable source" would be Graham >and Bruce themselves. > >Agreed. >I think what I should really say here is that it is >certainly not my opinion that Dome is more Ran than >Roos, but Domend did happen in Le Havre without Bruce. >Most Dome voice is Graham's, but there are actually >quite a few Bruce vocals in Dome sometimes quite >subtle. Right. Graham is the "front" man (at least on the vocal tracks) but Bruce is almost always right there, if you listen for him. >Really you'd have to go back through every Dome album >and take every track on its own merits and ask whether >it would fit in with other Lewis & Gilbert work and >it'd be a pretty pointless exercise. Agreed. >The '3R4' album (compiled as part of the '8 Time' CD) >was one exception where Bruce and Graham clearly >defined their roles in the recording process. At first I wondered if all the different names were necessary (w/ the exception of P'o, which is clearly a "group"), but ultimately all Graham/Bruce collaborations that do not have the name Dome are in fact something quite different. Your example is an excellent illustration of this. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 01:51:58 +1000 From: "Valley Of Death" Subject: [idealcopy] OT:V/VM I think V/VM are cool.The first time I heard their version of Lady in Red at a friend's place I was hysterically in stitches.I thought it extremely hilarious and at the same time it is disturbing.I played it to the teacher and other classmembers at music college but most of them did not get it. I also like their versions of 'Take my Breathe Away','Perfect Moment' and 'I love you just the way you are'. If thought provoking isn't the word,it is mind burning! Alex W GR: "This does indeed sum up one of the many approaches V/Vm might well use in their relentless attempts to make the worst sounds ever recorded. The likes of 'Total Eclipse of the Heart' are rendered comically listenable by such a process. Not sure if they do actually record in a bedroom though! They have recently been recording in a Dome actually... >>>>is it art? Am I missing something?! It's (allegedly) the worst. All you are missing is a fat hole in your wallet, and an occasional diamond floating in a sea of recycled shit. The V/Vm remix of Falco's 'Rock Me Amadeus' is well rockin'! It's all a bit silly, and might seem a little perverse but that's the Edgely Masher for ya!" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 23:53:42 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] GilbertPossStenger Howard said >>>>Recently made some WMO purchases - impressions so far are that I like the remix (second track) of GilbertPossStenger, but can't get along too well with the first. Was expecting more of a wall of sound (don't know on what grounds), and that it ain't. The Manchester recording has actually lost some of the power that they had at the Hacienda that night. It did seem more dense and it was actually more difficult to separate the instruments than on the recording. Presumably it was recorded via the mixing desk, and mixing desks don't necessarily give the whole picture. However, I prefer the original to the remix. Maybe it should be remembered that they were improvising and it does take a few minutes to gel. Listening to the recording it seems like Robert Poss is looking for a way in for the first few minutes. I think at that time Bruce was quite ambivalent about playing the guitar live, and it was the idea of being able to play slide guitar that appealed to him. The thing is that on GPS nothing he plays sounds like you'd expect a slide guitar to sounds. To be honest it was just brilliant to see him playing a guitar again and the fact that it was such a unique event made it all the better. I was so eager to hear this document of a performance I'd witnessed that when it arrived in the post I took it to work and had it on the headphones non-stop all day and had to make a tape for the walkman as soon as I got home. On the night I was accompanied by a bassist friend who I used to play guitar with occasionally and she was bowled over by Susan Stenger's bass playing. If I remember correctly (and I might have this wrong) Susan didn't play any bass for a fair while when they started up. The bass seems more luminous on the remix and my impression of the remix is that its like a tinnitus roar in the ears after the original drones subside. I think it works really well as a companion piece and highlights some aspects of the original that maybe didn't cut through so obviously, but in the end the original is much more intense. It certainly isn't neatly cropped and clean, but neither is it like the chaotic entropy of 'Soli', which might be the reason you were expecting something noisier? I think GilbertPossStenger was exactly the kind of searching heck of it collaboration that experimentation in music is all about. The slagging it got from David Keenan in 'The Wire' really irked me because it was painfully obvious that he hadn't listened to more than the first ten minutes! Ordering Bruce Gilbert to go and 'bone up' by listening to Harry Pussy was really dumb. OK, so maybe he was trying to make the point that Harry Pussy are noisier and throw all caution to the wind and in comparison GPS might have seemed a little tentative to him. But Gilbert, Poss and Stenger have their own distinctive styles of playing and telling any artist to go and learn how to play in the style of another artist is deeply patronising and totally pointless. I mean Nine Inch Nails listened to Coil, Neubauten and Joy Division but it didn't clue them up did it? For the record, 'Soli' obliterates anything Harry Pussy can spew from six tortured strings noisewise! So maybe it was David Keenan who should've done the 'boning up'? Giluz>>>>Does anyone know if Dugga Dugga Dugga is also available on vinyl? No. I think the only WMO vinyl release was 'Turns & Strokes'. Cool in the north and very warm in the south... Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 00:05:54 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] off topic - Ruts D.C. SYARZHUK, don't know if anyone else has mentioned this yet but... after Malcolm Owen died, they carried on as Ruts D.C. (de capo) and released a great album called 'Rhythm Collision' which was pretty much all reggae influenced, it contained the awesome 'Accusation' one of my favourites... can't remember what label it was on, i should imagine it's pretty hard to find now, released about...'81/82 ish? not sure. 1999 saw a kind of re-release but the lp was remixed by Zion Train and not unsurprisingly called 'Rhythm Collision Remix' (!) on the Echo Beach label (Cat.No. EB-021) in the U.K. (also, engineered by Birminghams Mad Professor), anorak off, ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 06:18:41 -0500 From: "david mack" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: atp reviews ah - i was wondoring when the sopophoric effects of 'post-rock' would be appreciated i was all up on tortoise early on , being hometown boys and having really cool japanese import packages and collectable releases and all then i realized that no matter how hard i tried i coould not escape the inevitable conclusion that their music bores me to tears i have trouble with mr jim o'rourke's melodic works of late as wekk the first one (with the disturbing drawing of the man and bunny) was brilliant for what and when it was and who it came from (tho little surprise to anyone who had heard his choice of soundboard music befor a performance - van dyke parks is up top) but 3 records later - zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz similarly stereolab's last few chicago winters are harsh and may have sopophoric effects on musicians - avaio (i am afraid of what may happen to nobekazu takemura hanging around with thos shellbacks - was he at ATP?) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 01:22:37 +0100 From: "scott kellock" Subject: [idealcopy] Syarzhuk Kazachenka -The Ruts How can you say "In A rut" was average. Punk classic along with the B-side "H-Eyes". This origianally released on Misty In Roots "Peoples Unite" Record Label. As for Playing Reggae!!! Well Listen to "Rhythm Collision" or any out-takes from that album or the reggae tracks on "Animal" Make NO MISTAKE these guys could play. More musical than shit like UB40 etc. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 00:53:11 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] having passed through my stereo haven't seen anyone's lists recently. so, for those of you interested... in size order: sonic youth-syr 1 brighter-noah's ark wire-peel sessions the wake-make it loud xtc-english settlement love & rockets-express talk talk-laughing stock stereolab-jenny ondioline various-eyes of barbara steele various-party party soundtrack psychedelic furs-world outside steven brown-searching for contact louis armstrong-hot fives and sevens cocteau twins-otherness, victorialand new fast automatic daffodils-peel sessions durutti column-tomorrow, greetings 3, city of our lady - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #111 *******************************