From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #110 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, April 12 2001 Volume 04 : Number 110 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Wire in stores [Wireviews ] [idealcopy] wiremailorder.com ["wiremailorder.com" ] [idealcopy] dobly ["ian jackson" ] [idealcopy] off topic - G.B.V. ["ian jackson" ] [idealcopy] off topic-Stoppit/ACR ["ian jackson" ] [idealcopy] OT ; all tomorrows parties [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] RE: [idealcopy] post-whore [Paul Pietromonaco ] Re: [idealcopy] post-whore [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] RE: [idealcopy] post-whore [Paul Pietromonaco ] [idealcopy] But No, Is Art In A Dome Rut? [=?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowlan] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 04:34:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Wireviews Subject: [idealcopy] Wire in stores "Wire product and information probably sits on store shelves next to Princess Di buttons and Chunnel t-shirts (you lucky bastards!)" Uh, quite. Having said that, the last time I was in the USA a few years ago, every record store I went into had a whole load of Wire stuff. By comparison, even our independants don't carry much anymore. The biggest selection of Wire stuff tends to be in our big chain stores in London (Tower, HMV, etc)... Craig. ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. Snub.Comms: http://welcome.to/snub Veer Audio: http://listen.to/veer - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 06:53:00 -0500 From: "wiremailorder.com" Subject: [idealcopy] wiremailorder.com FYI - there are remaining stocks of: 5 copies of Gilbert/Lews/Mills 22 copies of P'o 2 copies of Matching Crosses 24 copies of Hox 12 copies of IBM move yer feet, loose yer seat..... shop@wiremailorder.com http://www.wiremailorder.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 08:01:48 -0500 From: "wiremailorder.com" Subject: [idealcopy] wire video faq is back on the website, under the links tab. It's a whopping 8.4mb Quicktime file that Craig put together. charles shop@wiremailorder.com http://www.wiremailorder.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:24:08 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] dobly paul wrote :- Can someone elaborate on Dolby? yeah, it makes your cassettes sound like shit. cheers, ian. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:34:23 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] off topic - G.B.V. paul wrote:- i went to see G.B.V. last Friday at the Showbox theater here in Seattle. lucky old you! despite being a massive G.B.V. fan (the first thing i heard was 'Exit Flagger' from the 'Propellor' lp), i have yet to experience them live. i passed on the dubious temptation of seeing them support Gomez in Liverpool a while ago. i have a friend in London who goes to see them in places like Texas and North Carolina for fun...the bastard. has there been a break today? yours, stoned comedian ringo. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:53:34 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] off topic-Stoppit/ACR chris, tim or graeme wrote :- we preceded our last gig with a homage to the Orb which included a sample of the theme music from 'Stoppit and Tidyup'... >weird, i was only talking about 'Beequiet' and 'Beehave' to a blank face the other day!!! 'We're up in the air, we're down on the ground' - Howard Devoto tim wrote :- They also did a great one (cassette) for ACR's Graveyard & Ballroom in a clear plastic wallet with the tape loose inside, an ex-girlfriend years ago had one which i used to covet! >still got mine!! (e.g., self-satisfied, smug) never bought any of the other Fac. tapes though...bugger. chriswire wrote :- I used to love ACR...however 'Sextet' to my ears is just a really strange record. it looks fantastic and some of it is completely brilliant, but Martha Tilsons tone-deaf wailing ruins several otherwise storming tracks. i prefer 'I'd like to see you again' a great example of mostly white men (apart from Donald Johnson of course) trying to make black music and failing brilliantly! >Yes, 'Sextet' still sounds strange and it has one of the best covers ever. Martha's vocals initially bugged me but with time i grew to love the thing as a whole! i think it's a masterpiece along with parts of the 1st lp and of course 'Flight' and 'Waterline' (this could go on all day!! if anyone hasn't heard 'Flight' check it out for god's sake...) 'I'd like to...' was great but too smooth and i think it was downward slope for me after that... still got the 'Sir Horatio' 12" as well!! i remember seeing Don Johnson for the first time and being nothing less than astounded by his drumming...and then he comes 'out front' and he's just as good on the bass, one of the most underrated musicians of all time, to be sure. 'this is something that only happens in the night' - A.C.R. bye, ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 16:01:56 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] off topic - bands of the rising sun tim wrote:- The Boredoms do Dugga so i defy any any IC-ist not to enjoy this record! >ok... i actually like the 'idea' and the mayhem of The Boredoms and Melt Banana, rather than the sounds they make... now Zeni Geva that's more my thing... today's emails have been done to the sound of the first 3 lp's by ROONEY, 'Time on Their Hands', 'On Fading Out', and 'On The Closed Circuit' all on Common Culture Records, the best thing to come out of Liverpool lately. ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 16:03:07 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] off topic - A.C.R./Graveyard&Ballroom mark wrote :- That was on the poorest quality cassette ever made. yes, it's terrible but that's part of why i love it! hadn't heard 'Faceless' in ages...that guitar, woah! sorry for so many A.C.R. posts, it must be tedious for anyone who hasn't heard of/doesn't like them! ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 11:50:13 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] off topic - A.C.R./Graveyard&Ballroom Ian, << mark wrote :- That was on the poorest quality cassette ever made. yes, it's terrible but that's part of why i love it! hadn't heard 'Faceless' in ages...that guitar, woah! sorry for so many A.C.R. posts, it must be tedious for anyone who hasn't heard of/doesn't like them! >> It wasn't just poor quality. it self-destructed, by leaving deposits of brown gunk on your heads. By track 3 the sound was all muffled. I had to make a back up, pausing after each track to clean the heads... Thank fuck for CDs. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:05:14 -0700 (PDT) From: j alberson Subject: Re: [idealcopy] post-whore This is when I wish it were possible to afford to put out a Wire covers cd of my own. I was in a band that used to (try to) do "Practise Makes Perfect" and "Outdoor Miner". I'd like to be able to get other Idealcopyists to do covers. Wouldn't that be great? *sigh* Jack - --- MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > Paul, > > I recently d/ld a cover of The 15th by a band called > Earthquake Pills. Quite > nice, if a bit literal. At least they didn't choose > an obvious one. I'll let > you know if I find any more. Wish I had a tape of > Felt's version of Outdoor > Miner. > > Mark > > << on the one hand a compilation cd would be fun. > shame about 50% of the > tracks > would be outdoor miner or 12xu. i'll continue > looking..... p >> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 16:05:21 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] OT ; all tomorrows parties just read a review of this (anyone here go?). sounds like television were great but the reviewer felt the younger acts were a little humourless. particular scorn was poured on tortoise who allegedly sent several audience members to sleep , their extended xylophone solo (i kid you not) was not well recieved. i recall similar comments about last year when wire were a breath of fresh air amongst the mogwais et al. ....... i mean its a bit disturbing when wire and television steal the show at these events 25 years after their "prime". bit of a sad reflection on what's happening now really , it's all going a bit 1975. still , we all know what happened next back then.p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:22:19 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: RE: [idealcopy] post-whore Say - I have some video of a band I was in performing "Mannequin"... We actually did a pretty decent version. Kind of a combination between the Wire and the fIREHOSE versions. Cheers, Paul - -----Original Message----- From: j alberson To: MarkBursa@aol.com; idealcopy@smoe.org Sent: 4/11/01 12:05 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] post-whore This is when I wish it were possible to afford to put out a Wire covers cd of my own. I was in a band that used to (try to) do "Practise Makes Perfect" and "Outdoor Miner". I'd like to be able to get other Idealcopyists to do covers. Wouldn't that be great? *sigh* Jack - --- MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > Paul, > > I recently d/ld a cover of The 15th by a band called > Earthquake Pills. Quite > nice, if a bit literal. At least they didn't choose > an obvious one. I'll let > you know if I find any more. Wish I had a tape of > Felt's version of Outdoor > Miner. > > Mark > > << on the one hand a compilation cd would be fun. > shame about 50% of the > tracks > would be outdoor miner or 12xu. i'll continue > looking..... p >> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 16:46:00 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] post-whore .................why don't you stick your version on napster so we can all have a listen ! p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:52:01 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: RE: [idealcopy] post-whore >why don't you stick your version on napster so we can >all have a listen ! Ummm.. I don't Napster, but I could digitize it and put it on one of my webservers. You'll have to wait until I get home to Seattle, though, since I'm in Tokyo. (^_^) Cheers from Japan, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 22:04:54 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] But No, Is Art In A Dome Rut? I asked you lot not to start me off but you wouldn't let it lie so... Tim Robinson said >>>>Bruce's solo stuff is Interesting, clever and sometimes fun, but not the sort of thing I'd want to listen to over and over again. Maybe I'm just too thick to understand it. I don't think you really have to have an intellectual understanding of Bruce's solo work to enjoy it. No amount of theory would convince most people that 'Soli' is worth the eardrum damage! Some I have talked to are put off by what they perceive to be Bruce's 'college lecturer in elbow pad jacket' image. This is missing the point, which is simply that he's made some great records! They grow better over the years, it's true. When I brought home a 'Shivering Man' LP about ten years ago, I played it once and filed it away between the first Dome album and 'Hail', mentally tagged as a very odd bit of techno influenced weirdness. At the time Colin's albums up to 'Commercial Suicide' were all in my collection and all got played rather more often than any of the Gilbert and/or Lewis stuff. >>>>Richard James has written some heart-breakingly beautiful music, (see huge chunks of Ambient Works Vol 1+2 and his warp albums) plus some truly wonderful twisted-pop records. Bruce Gilbert has written some heart-breakingly beautiful music (see 'Cruel When Complete', Scala remix, 'Just Talk') plus some truly wonderful twisted-pop records (Kidney Bingos, Ambitious, Madman's Honey, etc.). Funnily enough when I spoke to him before the Edindurgh gig in December he said that he had been pursuing beautiful sounds. >>>>ask me in 10 years time, but over all the Wire solo stuff I've heard my favorite is still the last Immersion Album which is gorgeous. 'Low Impact' is a great album. So is 'A-Z'. So is 'Bastard'. So is 'Oscillating'. 'A-Z' is quite likely my most played soloWire disc but it was also the first one I got. I still like it more than 'Dome 1' actually! The last 3 tracks are as good an end to an album as any ever recorded! The thing about time to grow is relevant though. I had 'Dome 1' and 'The Shivering Man' for quite some time before they started to get played a lot and to be honest only 'Cruel When Complete' and 'Ampnoise' kept me coming back to 'Dome 1' for the first few listens! It was when I heard 'Red Tent' opening 'Dome 2' that I got hooked. 'Ab Ovo' was really a perspective shifting experience for me, perhaps more so than any other Wire related release. It was really this disc that made me realise that there was quite a bit more to music than guitar rock! That's not to say that I only listened to guitar rock, but it was the staple of my musical diet up til the mid nineties. Hearing pan sonic live was a revelation, in that before then I was pretty dismissive of techno. But it was 'Ab Ovo' that shifted the boundaries and opened the door to let in a flood of experimental shenanigens! >>>>I guess I'm a NewmanOid and Graeme is a Gilbertoid! Actually I think they make a lot of their best sounds together. I'm sure we all agree on that! The way the Gilbert and Newman guitars work off/against each other could be the most important apsect of what makes Wire such a great group for me! That might be the main reason I was quite glad they'd gone back to the 2GBD set up for the Brochure bash and subsequent gigs. Can I be an Ocsidoid and a Hoxoid too? >>>>Sorry mate but V/vm to my (perhaps ill-informed) ears sounds like a troubled boy in a bedroom feeding 'Now That's What I Call Music -Volume 4' through a ring modulator...... This does indeed sum up one of the many approaches V/Vm might well use in their relentless attempts to make the worst sounds ever recorded. The likes of 'Total Eclipse of the Heart' are rendered comically listenable by such a process. Not sure if they do actually record in a bedroom though! They have recently been recording in a Dome actually... >>>>is it art? Am I missing something?! It's (allegedly) the worst. All you are missing is a fat hole in your wallet, and an occasional diamond floating in a sea of recycled shit. The V/Vm remix of Falco's 'Rock Me Amadeus' is well rockin'! It's all a bit silly, and might seem a little perverse but that's the Edgely Masher for ya! Don't take it all too seriously! The old folks at Stockport Town Hall love 'em! >>>>The got me thinking, are all the early Wire singles taken from LPs the same as the LP versions? i.e. any reason for getting the singles other than the nice sleeves? 'Outdoor Miner' is longer on the single with an extra piano fill. That version is also on some 'Chairs Missing' Cd's. 'A Question of Degree' is my favourite Wire single and never appeared on an album, but was recorded at the '154' sessions. 'Dot Dash' was also not an album song, but was recorded around the same time as the 'Chairs Missing' material. 'Our Swimmer' had two different versions. The original was recorded after '154' along with 'Midnight Bahnhof Cafe' (which appeared on the flipside) and 'Go Ahead' (which appeared on the earlier 'Map Ref' single). Rough Trade released it as a single during the first Wire hiatus. This was possibly the most exciting record fair find of my youth - a Wire single I never even knew existed! And when I got it home it didn't disappoint. Later RT also issued 'Second Length', the hyperspeed 'Our Swimmer' reworking which kind of foreshadows '12 Times You' in a way, which was on the flipside of 'Crazy About Love' 12" with 'Catapult 30'. These tracks have all turned up on CD reissues so you needn't pay the silly money record dealers often charge for the early Wire singles. There is also a very good bootleg of a 1979 Hull gig which is notable for a very different and quite funky version of 'Midnight Bahnhof Cafe'. Michael Flaherty said of Dome >>>>I hear more Bruce than I do Graham in a lot of it. For me, the only "reliable source" would be Graham and Bruce themselves. Agreed. I think what I should really say here is that it is certainly not my opinion that Dome is more Ran than Roos, but Domend did happen in Le Havre without Bruce. Most Dome voice is Graham's, but there are actually quite a few Bruce vocals in Dome sometimes quite subtle. Then again 'Long Lost Life' was done by Bruce alone and is actually a pretty atypical Dome track (if there ever could be a typical Dome track??!). Since it was originally recorded for the '154' EP it's hardly representative, but it's really hard to pick out representative Dome pieces, let alone Gilbert in general! Really you'd have to go back through every Dome album and take every track on its own merits and ask whether it would fit in with other Lewis & Gilbert work and it'd be a pretty pointless exercise. This is a can of worms that doesn't need opening in the end isn't it? But I feel some trivial wriggles coming on... 'Plosive Pluck' wouldn't sound out of place on 'Music for Fruit' perhaps, and some other bits of 'Yclept' could be in sympathetic company with 'Ab Ovo' but 'Because We Must' would be more at home on 'Take Care' perhaps... a Donna Summer tribute to weigh in next to that Leonard Cohen cover... this could go on forever! I think ultimately its pretty clear that most Dome pieces were very collaborative and the best example of that could arguably be the random studio explorations which they ordered for the last track on 'Dome 2'. There was also more than a little input from Angela Conway, Peter Price and Eric Radcliffe especially on 'Dome 3'. To my ears it's P'o and the two Ocsid discs which are closest in intent to Dome (and Domera satellites mostly compiled on '8 Time') compared to anything else in the Wire related hinterlands. The '3R4' album (compiled as part of the '8 Time' CD) was one exception where Bruce and Graham clearly defined their roles in the recording process. stephen graziano said of the Ruts >>>>Although my fave track of theirs "Westone (Shine on Me)" is truncated by more than half. As is the 7" single release - it was restored to full dubwidth on the 'Grin & Bear It' compilation. I had the misfortune to hear the Almighty covering 'In A Rut' recently, wherein they manage to excise all the desperate urgency of the original leaving just a flaccid submetal twiddle. The first Ruts single 'In A Rut' is great and after that its a downhill slide... Hey Gil, if you want to find more Ruts info online maybe the punknet77 site would be worth a look? There's a link to it from www.pinkflag.com resources. Is anyone still reading? Well, I'll just quickly mention that I reviewed Daniel Weaver's 'Pulse' CD for this week's Brain http://www.brainwashed.com/brain/brainv04i13.html and compared one track to the second track on Colin Newman's 'Singing Fish' album - there's an Mp3 extract of it up there and I'd be interested to see if anyone else can hear the (coincidental) similarity. Its beginning to and back again! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #110 *******************************