From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #103 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, April 5 2001 Volume 04 : Number 103 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Tapes/Ideal words/Terraze [Wireviews ] Re: [idealcopy]OT: Killing Joke, King Crimson etc [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy] Re:test pressings ["david mack" ] [idealcopy] Re: The Nature of Music and the Music of Nature ["ray\)\(o\)\] [idealcopy] 12TimesU ["ian jackson" ] [idealcopy] Re: UPT ["ray\)\(o\)\(mac" ] Re: [idealcopy] OT-a porky not so prime cut [j alberson ] RE: [idealcopy] Re: UPT ["giluz" ] [idealcopy] So, what is Music? (Mostly OT) [Michael Flaherty ] RE: [idealcopy] Re:sampled life ["Eric Klaver" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 01:39:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Wireviews Subject: [idealcopy] Tapes/Ideal words/Terraze >RE: Does anyone still collect cassettes? I still have a pile of cassettes, but have been gradually buying CDs to replace them. Audio quality on cassette is awful, even if you have a pro-system and they degrade fairly quickly. The only stuff I still "purchase" on tape is bootleg material and that's quite rare! >>>>I always assumed it said "Do men in > white have an advantage in height?" Fits > the pope vs Bombay colossus theme. The lyrics to this track are on the Ideal Copy sleeve - -- not sure if TWP took them directly, but I imagine it did. "Two men in white, an advantage in height" is accurate according to the biography (or at least makes sense regarding what the song is about). As for "terraze", it's Italian for "terrace" and can possibly be used for "balcony" -- a death on a balcony: a terraze wipeout... Maybe. Craig. ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. Snub.Comms: http://welcome.to/snub Veer Audio: http://listen.to/veer - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 06:28:38 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy]OT: Killing Joke, King Crimson etc George, << I agree with the review of Bowie's Low in the Third Edition of The New Trouser Press Record Guide, as written by John Walker and Ira G. Robbins: "From the grandiosity of Young Americans to the sketchy minimalist slices here, Bowie took heart from intellectual, bare-bones rock bands like Wire and, in turn, helped legitimize and promote such spartan stylings." Pink Flag and Low both came out in 1977, but I'm not sure which record was first (though I'd imagine Bowie probably knew about Wire before they put out the record). >> I'm afraid Trouser Press are talking bollocks. There is absolutely no way in which Wire could have influence Bowie's Low. Low charted in the UK in January 1977 (which means it was recorded in 1976), a month before Wire played their first gig. In fact Bowie had recorded and released Heroes (October 77) as well before Wire had released a record (apart from the two Roxy tracks). Pink Flag was released in November 77, preceded by the Mannequin single earlier in the same month. I don't think the UK punk scene had anything but a subliminal influence on the Dame at that time. He was into being a decadent Berlin junkie, and that just fitted with the mood of the times. So to go back to my original point, it was Bowie's albums that were a likely influence on Wire, not the other way round. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 07:07:37 -0500 From: "david mack" Subject: [idealcopy] Re:test pressings One motivation for collecting test-pressings was that they were most often of a higher quality than the commercial release. Reasons being - better quality vinyl and shorter pressing runs. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 09:12:22 -0500 From: "ray\)\(o\)\(mac" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: The Nature of Music and the Music of Nature Someone once defined music as 'organized sound' - a definition i tend to use Anyone know to whom to attribute that definition? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 15:18:23 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] 12TimesU well people, after dragging my heels somewhat, i managed to get hold of one of the last few through Rough Trade. And... it's great...'rougher' than i'd expected, but that's ok by me! ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 11:05:03 -0500 From: "ray\)\(o\)\(mac" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: UPT > > These days the multinational owned record companies > > seem so confused that they wouldn't know a new style > > or genre if it planted a bomb in the A&R office waste > > paper basket! > > Was there a time when it was not like that? when record companies were not multi-national there was a time when record companies were devoted to creating and forwarding style rather than reacting fortunately we have ~swim, et al today ;) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 09:10:26 -0700 (PDT) From: j alberson Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT-a porky not so prime cut Unfortunately, I've run into this a lot with EG recordings. That and I knew someone once who bought "Show" by the Cure and got "Skeletons From the Closet" by the Grateful Dead upon listening. Now that's torture. Doss hippies, Jack - --- Eardrumbuz@aol.com wrote: > bought a cd a while back, just got around to opening > it today. it's shirley > collins-fountain of snow. this is a compilation of > her works "presented" by > current 93, on world serpent (durtro010cd). > so, i take out the booklet and there's a nice > paragraph about shirley and > this release written by david tibet. he thanks the > various people involved in > the production, including denis at porky. so i press > teh play button and > voila...it's a rolling stones greatest hits cd! > anyone have similar stories? i've heard about this > kind of thing, but it's > the first time i've encountered it. also thought it > was funny that the > pressing job was mentioned in the booklet. > -paul c.d. Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 09:11:25 -0700 From: fernando Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:test pressings An even better motivation to get acetates as well... I found that some test pressings are quite dirty, but overall, they are better pressed and sound better. - -fernando At 07:07 AM 4/4/01 -0500, david mack wrote: >One motivation for collecting test-pressings was that they were most often >of a higher quality than the commercial release. >Reasons being - better quality vinyl and shorter pressing runs. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 18:37:44 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Re: UPT > > > These days the multinational owned record companies > > > seem so confused that they wouldn't know a new style > > > or genre if it planted a bomb in the A&R office waste > > > paper basket! > > > > Was there a time when it was not like that? > when record companies were not multi-national > > there was a time when record companies were devoted to creating and > forwarding style rather than reacting > fortunately we have ~swim, et al today ;) The situation today is certainly worse than ever, but it's no more than the same old shit: Major record companies have the same policy they always had. When did a major record company ever create a style? They operate only on the basis of audience demand. Once there's a new musical trend that attracts some attention, they'd go for it, but pull out at the first hint of commercial failure. Independent record labels were formed primaly because of this policy, and it happened a long time before the big companies turned multinational. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 12:39:03 -0500 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] So, what is Music? (Mostly OT) >From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey >Subject: [idealcopy] music vs. noise in no-holds-barred tag-team grudge match >So of course feedback can be very musical (in the praiseworthy sense of >"music"). But the question I was asking was more philosophical: is it >necessary that there be *intention* behind sound in order for it to be >regarded as music? Tough question. OK, I'll admit: sometimes I listen hums of electronic equipment. This probably explains a lot about me. ;) But for me to call something art or music ... yes, I think there needs to be an act of creation by an artist. >Uh, yeah - but "creativity" and "newness" are two whole other categories. Yeah, that was just a side comment ... I think Lou gets a little more credit than he deserves for MMM, but it has nothing to do w/ the quality of the album, which I like a great deal. "Making it new" is important, but I certainly do not equate newness as the final judgement on a work of art. >In the sense I was using it, "music" isn't a category - it's just a >description - and a fairly neutral one at that. Let's put it this way: I'm >asking "is _Metal Machine Music_ 'music'?" in the same way I might ask "is >the CD of _Metal Machine Music_ reflective of light?" > >Beyond that, I think Michael's point re the usefulness of both >appreciation without categories, but also of categories, is a worthy one. Metal Machine Music is a work of art. It is art using sound. If music is the use of sound for an artistic purpose, then MMM is music. But by that same definition most popular songs are not music, as they are not creative but manufactured in a factory-like way. One time I was playing Pre-He in my office (private). A co-worker came in with a question. She then asked, "Is that music?" I replied, "Depends on how you define music." She nodded, and we left it at that. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 16:30:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Creatured Subject: [idealcopy] RE: Tapes/Blank Cassettes i still buy lots of blank cassettes for trading live/demos bootlegs of bands. I don't buy official releases on cassette anymore though,i'd rather buy Lp's than cassette,but there was a time when i bought cassettes,so i could listen to them on the way home from the store,plus i had a job where i was in the car a lot,so i wouldn't have to copy it then. I still listen to cassettes in the car,the hiss thing is getting old i must admit,i hate to think it,but i might be a digital snob soon. Is there any format coming down the road that is going to replace cd's? I'm thinking of buying a cd burner since most bootleg traders trade on cdr nowadays. Rick http://www.angelfire.com/weird/bootlegs - --- Wireviews wrote: > >RE: Does anyone still collect cassettes? > > I still have a pile of cassettes, but have been > gradually buying CDs to replace them. Audio quality on > cassette is awful, even if you have a pro-system and > they degrade fairly quickly. The only stuff I still > "purchase" on tape is bootleg material and that's > quite rare! > > >>>>I always assumed it said "Do men in > > white have an advantage in height?" Fits > > the pope vs Bombay colossus theme. > > The lyrics to this track are on the Ideal Copy sleeve > -- not sure if TWP took them directly, but I imagine > it did. "Two men in white, an advantage in height" is > accurate according to the biography (or at least makes > sense regarding what the song is about). > > As for "terraze", it's Italian for "terrace" and can > possibly be used for "balcony" -- a death on a > balcony: a terraze wipeout... Maybe. > > > Craig. > > > > > ===== > ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- > http://welcome.to/wireviews > News, reviews and dugga. > > Snub.Comms: http://welcome.to/snub > Veer Audio: http://listen.to/veer > -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 02:03:49 +0100 From: Tim Robinson Subject: [idealcopy] Uh...Mark Prindle sucks dude..... Ill informed "Reviews" of Wires albums interspersed with some of the lamest attempts at humour I have ever read. Sample 'humourous line' "So remember, the next time you're out on a first date with a girl and you want to break the ice, lean across the table and shout, "Just let me know when you want to rub my wongdiggidydingwing!" (He adds this to his review of IBABTA, cos he's just such a Zany guy....kerrrazy.) Oh stop it, please, my sides will split. Why on earth have Wireviews bothered to add a link to this tedious drivel? I know its been a quiet month but are they that desparate for content? In that case could you add a link to my homepage www.clueless-unfunny-dickhead.com? I've written reviews of all the Dome albums. As I'm a Yorkshireman I've interspersed this with a liberal sprinkling of 'ee-by-gums' and a few Raunchy jokes. "Eee Dome 3 thats a reet class album that . Its reet avante gardy and I like a bit of noise concrete don't you? And ere's a bit of advice, always ask a lassie first if you want to get yer hands on here Domes eh lads? Cooooor!" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 02:51:57 +0100 From: Tim Robinson Subject: [idealcopy] Pick of the Pops (OT) Well 2001 has been *rubbish* so far! Its now April and only now have I found some good new records! So....this week I have been mostly listening to: The Boredoms - Vision Creation New Sun If Godspeed had a sense of humour they might make this. This is the sound of pure joy and pure energy. (How do they Drill so fast and so hard for so long?). Its basically loads of variations on one Can like groove, but morphing and changing into new shapes all the way through with a bloke shouting "Vison! Creation! New Suuuuuuuuun!" every so often. The Boredoms they do Dugga so I defy any Idealcopyist not to enjoy this record! If you like post-rock or Krautrock or punk-rock (without lyrical content) you will love this so go and buy it! Chris Clark - Clarence Park I only bought this because its on Warp, was only #7.99 (Is this a new trend for cut price debut LPs sparked off by Alan McGees new label Poptones?...lets hope so) and I liked the sleeve.(Scary eyed child in snowy landscape after The Shining) Fortunately its absolutely top knotch melodic, electronic noise fun. I think this is crackly and noisy enough for Graeme Rowlands & co. whilst still being tuneful enough to be accessible to the less hardcore among us. Basically if you like Aphex, Autechre, Black Dog and Warp stuff you will be glad you got this. As a coda to the 'Rules of Punk' thread, Chris Clark is classically trained but as far as I can tell this record meets Punk criteria...judge for yourselves. Wagon Christ - Musipial AKA Luke Vibert. He once made the best Drum and Bass Album on earth (under the name Plug. Its called 'Drum and Bass For Papa' and if you have any interest in D&B or Electronica at all, you *need* that record) and a great record called Big Soup. However I'd kind of fallen out with him after his last couple of lazy releases but this is tremendous. Its quirky, cheesy, joyful, silly, melodic and loads of fun and touches on the feel that made the aformentioned D&P4Papa such a stunning record. And it includes a sample of Johnny Ball from 'Think of a Number'. Kind of what the Orb might do now if they hadn't lost it big time...and hadn't fallen in with Island (Hello is it 1986 yet?) Records..... Bruce Gilbert - Music for Fruit OK this is old but I got this after on-list advice and it really is splendid. In parts its akin to, but a lot warmer than the Dome stuff. It was written for a contemporary darnce piece on Channel 4 or something but don't let that put you off. (Oops I'm starting to sound like Mark Prindle here). Its actually a fine but all to brief chunk of electronica. If the Aphex Twin released it tommorow everyone would say it was a work of genius. In fact its just a funny little relic from the 80s that maybe only the likes of us Idealcopyists will really listen to. I've listened to it 5 times which is probably 4 more than BCG has! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 21:42:39 -0400 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Re:sampled life <> I think I talked about this one in a previous posting, but I met chris at a conference in SF where he was presenting these recordings. His claim was that all places register the energy of things and that energy has an e(a)ffect on that place in the present. His recordings are of significant, ancient sites, for example medieval cathedrals in England and < I think, parts of Africa. He may have something because it was quite a tremendous experience listening to them. Eric in Toronto ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #103 *******************************