From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #98 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Sunday, April 1 2001 Volume 04 : Number 098 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] Stoppit and Tidyup / Dome+Tricky ["Ian B" ] [idealcopy] Big Black [=?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= ] [idealcopy] Re: stooges ["david mack" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: stooges [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] One Last Laugh (Tomorrow We Die) [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] One Last Laugh (Tomorrow We Die) [eric719@webtv.net (Eric] [idealcopy] 1-5-4 Maths ["david mack" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 11:35:14 +0100 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Stoppit and Tidyup / Dome+Tricky - ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Robinson > And one last thing, we preceded our last gig with a homage to The Orb > which included a sample of the theme music from Stoppit and Tidyup (UK > kids TV show voiced overed by Terry Wogan) and I'd forgotten one of the > characters was called GotoBed! And the theme music sounds like Dome! Once caught an edition of Little andd Large (gum bleedingly unfunny comedy double act on British TV late eighties early nineties - another gift from Manchester) and on the end credits among the list of writers was one Robert Gotobed. Anybody ever thought that musically 'Poems' on Tricky's Nearly God project owes a debt to Lewis and Gilbert? And is that a deliberate Wire reference in Massive Attack's Inertia Creeps? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 12:58:56 +0100 From: "they.wait" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Stoppit and Tidyup / Dome+Tricky > From: "Ian B" > Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 11:35:14 +0100 > To: > Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Stoppit and Tidyup / Dome+Tricky > > And is that a deliberate Wire reference > in Massive Attack's Inertia Creeps? what reference? please explain ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 14:23:10 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] A question of ethics and food Doctor said >>>>I'm sure I'm not the only copyist who would like you tell us what you ate. Lets have Rowlands Diets next week. I try to maintain a healthy balanced vegan organic diet. I'm a reasonable cook and am partial to chilli. It helps when thou hast to take up thy stethoscope and walk! Mr Sodium said >>>>A question of artistic/musical ethics...Just because the technology exists to allow something to be done, should it be done? This is also a big science issue. The genetic modification of food is a major worry these days. I like to know what the hell I'm eating so I eat as much organic food as possible. Of course eating organic could also be helping Wire's drummer maintain his livelihood. Those interested in issues of dwindling biodiversity and the encroachment of the monoculture might find this site useful: http://www.primalseeds.org (not to be confused w/plagiarist band of similar appelation!) Vive la difference! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 14:25:01 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] dol-lop >>>>I bought Doo-Lop (?) - Swim from Mr CD, Soho the other day. As some may know CDs are #1 in the basement. But, no disk when I got home. I cried. Is this worth hunting down again? Yes. It's dol-lop (for rotational symmetry). Japanese techno / dance which is quite a pleasant foot tapper and Craig's review on Wireviews sums it up quite well. Certainly worth more than half a little bottle of tasteless lager! Lock up your hats! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 14:25:59 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] One Last Laugh (Tomorrow We Die) Paul Rabjohn saw Killing Joke do a ropey through the motions greatest hits set in 1985. I don't doubt that they'd lost some of the intensity apparent on the 'Ha!' live 10" but 1985 was of course the year they had their biggish hit, 'Love Like Blood', which was the first I heard of them. I still rate the title track and 'Tabazan' from their 1985 album 'Night Time' as amongst their best work. The riff on 'Night Time' is one of the most intensely wired skullcrushers I've ever deafened myself with! And the intro to 'Kings and Queens' is a quality bit of composition. I've worn out a tape and a vinyl copy of that album. I'd rate it as their best since the first two. Around that time my younger sister was a regular Smash Hits reader, and thus so was I! The most memorable interview in the teeny mag ever must've been KJ. Jaz Coleman viciously slagged everything in the charts and rather accurately described some band on Paul Weller's fledgeling pretend-indie label as 'Weller's little cancerous growth'. Another good bit of Coleman negative showbiz was on some late night video jukebox jury type affair. Participants were able to stop a video by leaping up and pushing a button. Of course dear ol' Jaz stopped every single one almost immediately and had a huge amount of vitriol for the Blue Aeroplanes in particular. The 'America' video was itself a preposterous piece of high comedy, with Jaz doing a demented impression of some megalomaniac riding about in a tank. I'm not sure if that was their intention. I used to have dreams about Killing Joke gigs in which they machine gunned the audience. They made the first music I ever remember hearing in a dream. I finally got to see them when I went to Phoenix Festival for a day to see Shellac & Girls Against Boys. The golden oldies were delivered with enough passion and vitriol I thought, but maybe if I had seen a couple of 1981 gigs I'd have heard it differently. KJ trivia: Do any of you have any idea what a 'pandy' is? Personal trivia: I used to review and interview for a punk zine called 'Dregs' which was named after the KJ song. Music to dance to? Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 15:35:09 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Heartbeat (Boom Doom Boom Doom) graeme, i actually meant that there was probably no other way Big Black could have done the cover version. i'm aware of the possibilities of doing 40 versions of any track, i've been around a while...yours pedantically...ian.s.j. >From: Graeme Rowland >To: idealcopy@smoe.org >CC: shellac@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [idealcopy] Heartbeat (Boom Doom Boom Doom) >Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 18:16:30 +0100 (BST) > >Discussing Big Black's cover of Wire's 'Heartbeat', >Ian Jackson said > >>>>I agree with Ian Grant's comments on this subject. >having said that, there was probably no other way of >doing the cover version > >There ought to be as many ways of approaching a cover >as there are groups of musicians who can be bothered. > >Wire redid 'Heartbeat' for the Garage UK gigs May >2000. >They effectively covered it themselves, and it really >became as much a different song as Big Black's >version. > >The 2000 versions of many of the songs left in their >set by the US tour could be viewed this way. >Colin said that when approaching the retrospective >phase, Wire had to rely on having someone who could >teach the others how a song went! So the songs were >bound to morph. Mostly a streamlining seemed to occur. > >In the Big Black version, Steve Albini sings, "Like a >movie". I wonder if this was a mishearing or if he did >it intentionally as a pun on the fact that so many old >movies are remade into drastically inferior versions. >An example of this being 'Nosferatu', the original >version of which Faust rescored recently. But vampires >have no heartbeat. > >If Steve really thought the cover was like a movie >remake it would be quite ironic, considering the Big >Black version holds up so well. It is actually one of >their most angst ridden songs, which makes a big >contrast with the restraint of the more mature, >reflective and icey Wire original. Colin sounded >resigned and doomed, whereas Steve sounded like he was >fighting all the way. > >Wire's 2000 reworking was the most emotive and >poignant piece of music I've ever heard them play. > >It's behind me! >Graeme > >===== >Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine >http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine > >"What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert >Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk >or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 15:56:27 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Prolapse john, i'm not being funny here but i presume my reply will be seen by those mentioned. as well as I-C'ists, so i'll reply off-list when i've got time, later ian.s.j. >From: John Roberts >To: ian jackson >Subject: Prolapse >Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 10:22:13 -0800 (PST) > >Ian > >How do you know Prolapse? I live in Leicester where >most of em live. I know the drummer Tim well enough >to use to invite him round to watch the footy when I >had Sky - he seems to be a nice enough bloke (tho a >Newcastle fan). I used to play footy with him and two >other band members. I think I get what you mean. >They are a weird lot cos the other two always blank me >nowadays. But I did hear that one of them suffers >chronically with depression which made me think of >them in a more sympathetic light. I don't think >they're still going are they? The female singer was >doing a journalism course at the university I work at >and I think I'm right in saying now works at the local >paper. They were always quite good live I thought tho >their recordings were dull and tedious. Tim used to >play in a Fall covers band called Ludd Gang in his >spare time - I don't know if you're aware of that. > >Regards > >John >--- ian jackson wrote: > > graeme wrote :- > > >I did it at a Prolapse gig once and three of them > > >accompanied me on an impromptu rendition of 'Eat > > >Y'self fitter!' > > > > oh don't get me started on Prolapse, musically fine, > > but what a bunch of > > fucking failed drama students they are (personal > > experience). > > welcome to the Vitamin B glandular show. > > > > ian.s.j. > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at >http://www.hotmail.com. >Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 16:07:39 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Big Black Tim asked >>>>Anyone care to recommend a great albini/BB record for starters? Go for either 'Songs About Fnuging' or 'Atomizer'. The CD version of 'Atomizer' replaces the album's weakest track with the entire Headache/Heartbeat 12"+7" EP so if you must have CD then 'The Rich Man's 8 Track' is a good place to start. The 'Pigpile' live album is a bit of top notch home entertainment too. The best Shellac records are the 'Action Park' album and the second 7" 'Uranus'. Just in case you missed it, allow me to shamelessly plug the Shellac interview on Cracked Machine! Here's a useful site on Big Black: http://www.olywa.net/pasha90/bigblack.htm Kill the cow! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 16:08:34 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Feel it closing in Sorry, forgot who said this, but someone did! >>>>I dare say it would be interesting to see what other people could do to reimagine some other JD songs (high on my list being "Something Must Break" and some of the "Closer" material). Bruce Gilbert tackling "Atmosphere"? I'd pay to hear THAT. Did you hear the 'means to an end' tribute? Low covered Transmission with slow aplomb and Tortoise version of 'As You Said' was a revelation. I quite liked Kendra Smith's 'Heart and Soul'. Jawbox covered "Something Must Break" on their first album 'Grippe' (Dischord) but it wasn't all that great. >>>>Bruce Gilbert tackling "Atmosphere"? I'd pay to hear THAT. What's your price? I'd double it if he'd do Russ Abbot's version on the B-side! Codeine covered Atmosphere on MTAE but I don't think they pulled it off all that well. What I'd like to hear is a band do an entire set of JD songs in the style of Big Black... Incubation, Disorder, Ice Age, Interzone, Shadowplay, No Love Lost, Warsaw, Digital, Wilderness, She's Lost Control, Transmission. The band will be called Glad Subtraction and Tony Wilson will be on the list plus a thousand. And they will all have to dress up as pantomime cows. Lights are flashing Cars are crashing Getting frequent now! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 16:09:43 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Ballet Sham Killed Punky Oatey ian jackson said >>>>actually, i'd say it was more like 18 months, start to finish. IMO, Joy Div's 'Unknown Pleasures' signalled the death of punk rock, even though it's members probably had the most punk rock attitudes of all. No, Sham 69 had the most punk rock attitude. Sniffing Glue is in historical agreement here. And a million Gary Bushell clones can't be wrong! Witness the heartfelt and moving outsider lament of 'I'm a jumper on the wrong way with the label sticking up'. Who's got a dirty face then? Who broke out borstal? Who knew that if kids were united, they'd never be divided? Who wore lace up boot and corduroy? Who was going down the pub? Joy Division may have been dead souls living in the ice age but punk was just a means to an end for them. Sham 69 meant it, man. John Cale even produced their first single! Punk was dead when Sham 'singer' Jimmy Pursey did the most inept ballet ever seen on TV. It laughed itself to death. Pursey is now rumoured to have landed himself the lucrative role of Purple Teletubby. What would you do if I sang out of tune? Graeme (Friday listened to Killing Joke-1st, Wir-Vien, Magazine-Peel sessions, Eardrum - Last Light, VU - White Light/White Heat, Vibracathedral Orchestra - Hollin, Pauline Oliveros & David Gamper. Will be checking out Eno's Tiger Mt as and when) ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 09:39:06 -0800 (PST) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: [OT] That's Albini for you... (was Re: [idealcopy] A Certain Black Heartbeat/Stoppit and TidyupI') Big Black's Atomizer is the one you need. Then Songs about F*cking. John Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 10:01:26 -0800 (PST) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Killing Joke Frank > As you mentioned them I'd like to hear the opinions > of the lists's > subscribers about KJ. I have several records of them > ( the early 10'' > ep "are you receiving" among them ) and while I > don't listen to them very > often I have to say there are days in my life where > listening to KJ > is a must. Are you Receiving is a great 12". The first two albums are by far the best tho Revelations and Fire Dances are decent, Revelations more so by the inclusion of Empire Song and We Have Joy. I remember buying Empire Song as a single and playing it till I wore it out. Saw KJ many times in Leicester and Nottingham from Fire Dances on. I saw them at Leics Uni on the Night Time tour and under the influence of certain substances proceeded to berate Jaz from the middle of the moshpit including a very audible demand to 'Bring back Youth - all is forgiven' which didn't seem to go down too well as the band didn;t do an encore. I was rather out of it tho I do remember that the presence of some session muso/Billy Idol lookalike on keyboards had pissed me off somewhat. I went home and snapped the recently released Love Like Blood single in half. So you could say I was rather into them in those days. Saw them sometime v late 80s poss 1990 in Birmingham at Burberries (anyone used to know it?) where they were doing a one off low key Xmas gig and I don't think they had a record co at the time - they were excellent. John Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 14:03:51 -0600 From: "david mack" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: stooges > Could The Stooges be considered punk? as anyone who grew up in detroit in the 70's could tell you, the stooges were the beginning, middle and end of punk and all that for a couple hundred fans (tops) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 16:08:16 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: stooges In a message dated 31/03/01 21:13:55 GMT Daylight Time, dmack2002@yahoo.com writes: > > Could The Stooges be considered punk? > as anyone who grew up in detroit in the 70's could tell you, > the stooges were the beginning, middle and end of punk > and all that for a couple hundred fans (tops) > > > ///////// and for lots of kids in the uk (like , um , the pistols) they > were pretty much the same. p ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 16:13:34 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] One Last Laugh (Tomorrow We Die) ........the classic jaz coleman story concerns a music biz bash where chrissie hynde happened to see him eating a hamburger. at which she charges over to him and berates him for eating meat and causing "bad karma". to which jaz replies "look , two of your band are dead. don't you tell ME about bad karma". i always liked that one. and i have no idea what a pandy is. but when i was about 4 years old my favourite show on tv was "andy pandy". who was to the teletubbies what iggy was to the pistols. sort of. p ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 13:27:23 -0800 (PST) From: eric719@webtv.net (Eric Strang) Subject: Re: [idealcopy] One Last Laugh (Tomorrow We Die) <> It's a smack on the palm of the hand with a stick as punishment. Eric ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 20:53:51 -0600 From: "david mack" Subject: [idealcopy] 1-5-4 Maths music is all about numbers and times - which are all about numbers making music without math is like writing poetry without letters (ora characters in the east) > How exactly are common chord progressions "mathematical"? I suppose you > could start arguing from the physical properties of sound, with octaves > being created by doubling the frequency and a fifth being 1.5 times the > frequency - but it's doubtful whether those physical facts were an > influence on what made chord progressions work (except, perhaps, in the > sense that concord might bear some relation to neat mathematical > equations, while discord leads to more complex...but I doubt it). I'd be > curious what your instructors were referring to. ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #98 ******************************