From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #95 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, March 29 2001 Volume 04 : Number 095 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [idealcopy] Whitechapel Gallery Events [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] RE: [idealcopy] Whitechapel Gallery Events ["giluz" ] [idealcopy] cerith wyn evans [Mark McQuitty ] [idealcopy] the best music (again) ["squonk" ] Re: [idealcopy] Killing Joke [eric719@webtv.net (Eric Strang)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 05:40:19 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Whitechapel Gallery Events > artist Cerith Wyn Evans teamed with Wire, Finnish band Panasonic working > with Carsten Nicolai, and many others. Is this the automn London gig Colin was talking about, or is it something different (June-July isn't really automn, I know)? giluz /////so does anyone know who cerith wyn evans is? and whils we're on the subject , anyone know when this venice biennale is? p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 12:56:49 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Whitechapel Gallery Events > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org > [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of PaulRabjohn@aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 12:40 PM > To: giluz@nettalk.com; idealcopy@smoe.org; > mark.mcquitty@dickinsoncontrol.co.uk > Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Whitechapel Gallery Events > > > > artist Cerith Wyn Evans teamed with Wire, Finnish band Panasonic working > > with Carsten Nicolai, and many others. > > Is this the automn London gig Colin was talking about, or is it something > different (June-July isn't really automn, I know)? > > giluz > > /////so does anyone know who cerith wyn evans is? and whils we're > on the subject , anyone know when this venice biennale is? p goto http://www.cca-kitakyushu.org/project/wynevansdet.html for his biography. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 12:26:18 +0100 From: Mark McQuitty Subject: [idealcopy] cerith wyn evans /////so does anyone know who cerith wyn evans is? Film maker. Worked with Derek Jarman for a while I believe. Couldn't name on of his films though. MarkM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 12:38:01 +0100 From: Mark McQuitty Subject: [idealcopy] Mice Parade/FatCat/e-rmx.com >>>>Anyone checking out Mice Parade imminent tour? Graeme wrote : Are they playing in Manchester? - - Not sure, don't think so. London for sure (as usual). I'm pleasantly suprised that there's a Birmingham date which means I get a chance to check out some live electronica-type stuff. Checked the FatCat site for info about the compilation but they say it's sold out. Bummer. Did download some of the MP3's from their Emiliana Torrini remix project at www.e-rmx.com some of which are top notch. On-Topic ref - Colin played a track of hers on the recent web radio broadcast. MarkM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 13:36:03 +0200 From: "\"Martin \\\"Bernd\\\" Schmeil\"" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Killing Joke Killing Joke (as well as Wire) is "my favourite band". While I somehow lost my interest in Wire (seen the ABIAC-tour and then got this very weak mixed album) I'm still very fanatic about Killing Joke. It doesn't matter to me that they did a couple of poor albums, starting with Brighter Than A Thousand Suns, the old stuff still kicks me every time I listen to it. I still love the old Wire stuff and the Snakedrill 12", but I prefer the old Colin and Dome stuff over the 80s / 90s Wire / He Said / etc. Whatever: If you like Killing Joke you should go to http://www.the-last-laugh.com, an incredible website maintained by Raven himself (and others). There are 100s of rare MP3s, a bunch of interviews, photos, videos, whatever you can think of. And it looks pretty good. - - tB! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 07:10:50 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: [idealcopy] List downtime on Thursday, 3/29 Howdy, folkses... Two admin sorta things... 1) The generous genius behind smoe.org, Jeff Wasilko, is moving the physical smoe.org servers tomorrow (Thursday 3/29/01). That means that there will be no mail service during the outage. All list mail will be held until Jeff reassembles everything, so stuff you send to the list during the downtime won't disappear. It'll just rush past the sluice all at once on Thursday evening or Friday. 2) In February, the idealcopy list passed its third anniversary. I'd like to thank Jeff and smoe.org for hosting us, and all of you for participating in this endeavor. List membership grew within the first six months to over 200 (equal numbers on the "instant list" and the digest), and has held steady ever since. later, listowner Miles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 15:33:09 +0200 From: Woerner Frank Subject: AW: [idealcopy] Re: Killing Joke >Whatever: If you like Killing Joke you should go to >http://www.the-last-laugh.com, an incredible website >maintained by Raven himself (and others). There are 100s >of rare MP3s, a bunch of interviews, photos, videos, >whatever you can think of. And it looks pretty good. Wow! Donnerwetter ! This website is really great ... and the downloads are VERY FAST ... ;_)) I got some mixes I did not have yet ... highly recommended for everone with a little interest in KJ. Frank from Bavaria ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 07:37:31 -0800 (PST) From: j alberson Subject: [idealcopy] OT graeme and my own music list. To Graeme: Keep doing what you do (on the list). I appreciate it greatly. I have a webzine myself (just reviewed the reissue of "Hydrology plus 1+2" by Recoil and getting ready to interview Nicole Blackman). Now, for what I've been listening to. Sorry if it's shite. Wire: "Chairs Missing"--definitely enjoying "Used To" a lot at the moment. Ladytron: that album that just came out...I think it's called "604". All I have to say is if you're going to rip someone off, pick someone good like Kraftwerk. Blur: "13"--actually, pretty adventurous in my opinion...as Blur go. Einsturzende Neubauten: "Ende Neu"--wore myself out on "Silence is Sexy" for the moment, and not quite in a "Drawings of Patient OT" mood at the moment. Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds: "Let Love In"--I just like it. H.A.L.O.: "imminent"--the love affair with Lewis continues...the fear grows Jane's Addiction: "Ritual de lo Habitual"--I love "Three Days". A lot. That's it. Jack Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 11:40:02 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wiry XTC Jeff, That was my immediate thought too. Probably my favourite XTC track. I often wish they'd made more 'dark' tracks like that one. I really can't see the other three tracks mentioned as having much to do with Wire. The XTC/Wire similarities are much more nebulous (angular/English sound)...IMO the two bands use entirely different methods to achieve different results. Mark << > > Merging two recent strands, I have been spending a bit of time in the car > > recently with Fossil Fuel and imagining wiping the vocals off XTC songs and > > finding that the backing tracks wouldn't be too out of place sung over by > > Newman or Lewis. They actually turn out quite unconventional. Some singles > > that could be confused for Wire outtakes ... > > > > Making Plans for Nigel - 154 > > Generals and Majors - IBTABA > > Wake Up - Manscape Even more so than my earlier suggestion, another track from _Drums and Wires_ (hmmm...) would be "Complicated Game." Instead of the nifty, semi-atonal solo, there could be Gilbert Noise. >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 11:44:15 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wiry XTC Stephen, << Don't trust my ears though - not only are they unable to work out the guitar part to "Shadowplay", but I still haven't got the 12XU riff. >> As a tip...use barre chords. Don't try and replicate either he Albrecht or the Gilbert style using "proper" chord shapes. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 11:56:05 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Love will tear us apart remix - OT Howard, I f***ing hate that bloody acoustic guitar! It comes really high up the mix and buggers up the fade. You're right that they weren't happy with LWTUA. Actually they had a LOT of trouble with it - two spearate goes at recording it (hence the B-side version). The Peel session nailed the song pretty well as it sounded live, but I think they wanted to beef it up in the studio. Hence the rewritten, simplified drum part, with massive Hannett compression, and slower tempo. Also the Intro is a slowed-down 12-string guitar rather than that lovely white Vox used on the Peel session (and played live by Ian C). I wish they'd left that on. Never bothered with that JD greatest hits thing. Seemed pointless. Buy Substance instead if you want a "best of". Mark << Love will tear us apart remix was just a cleaning up operation - the band were never happy with the original mixes as I recall. There is a nice guitar line in the outro that comes up nicely in the remix - the whole thing sounds less muddy and I'd say it was worth having. >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 12:00:13 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] apostrophe Ian, The much-derided 'Morning Bell' from Manscape was an attempt to sound like 'Why can't we live together?' by Timmy Thomas. Not entirely successful, but an unexpected Wirely reference point! Mark << if i remember correctly from a conversation a few years ago, i believe Mr. Newman is a big Motown fan.. the thought had struck me that there wasn't much discussion of black music on the list, but i don't think it's an issue!! >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 12:11:07 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] [Wirelist]If Lewis& Gilbert remixed Hear'say.... ....would the result be P'Opstars? I'll get me coat. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 18:19:31 +0100 From: "Andrew Lumbard" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V4 #92 - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of CHRISWIRE@aol.com Sent: 27 March 2001 22:43 To: mflaher3@triton.cc.il.us; idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V4 #92 Penguin Cafe Orchestra - Signs Of Life Colin Newman - It seems LP Oh & I've just ordered Orbital tickets.I feel too old to stand these days ! Chriswire Oh hey, PCO - Broadcasting from Home, for me! along with Add N to (X) - Add Insult to Injury Broadcast - The Noise Made by People Calexico - Hot Rail The Chills - Submarine Bells 25 Years of Rough Trade Oh & off to see Cousteau on Friday &, I'll say it quietly, Semisonic tickets arrived today. AndyL ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 18:28:53 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Mining Karlheinz and Kurt's Cardigans Giluz >>>>Attempts to make music based on mathematical equations exist in modern classical music, and is basically one of the main reasons why people don't write good classical stuff anymore. I suspect I was the only person who returned to the Royal Festival Hall two days after Wire delivered their Brochure to hear a performance of Karlheinz Stockhausen's quite impressive three orchestra sound movement composition 'Gruppen'. The Kings of Elgaland Vargaland did not herald the old Teutonic fella, but he did have a nice line in bright orange cardigans. Between performances I think he changed from one to another, having perhaps been impressed by that preening wallflower from Bauhaus. Kurt Cobain also wore a cardigan, however I think this had very little to do with the popularity of 'Smells Like Teen Spirit'. I never got close enough to check whether the cardigan itself smelt of anything at all. I did drink some spirits at some 5-6 Nirvana gigs though. At Reading the first time Nirvana were on the bill below tepid MBV copyists Chapterhouse. Would you credit it? I think Dinosaur Jr and Sonic Youth also played if memory serves. When Nirvana kicked into the as yet unsinglified 'Teen Spirit' a field erupted as one. Everyone seemed to move. It was really a moment to savour. That song had a power. It was a stunner of a rock gig moment on a par with Robert's drum tap that sprang 'Pink Flag' back into ear space. But I saw Nirvana do a ridiculously overlong plodding going through the motions Reading headline just before KC blew his brains out, and their fire was out. Nirvana were a good rock band. Things moved too fast and it all went wrong. My take on this is that Corporate Greed (and maybe drugs) killed Nirvana. Punk had nothing to do with it. To me, punk means 'No Rules'. I think that idea is very much alive and well. Another the reason that I am glad EMI messed up the chances of 'Outdoor Miner' being a big hit. He lies on his side Is he trying to hide? The grubby old cardy he's worn since birth! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 18:47:04 +0100 From: Howard Spencer Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Love will tear us apart remix - OT >I f***ing hate that bloody acoustic guitar! It comes really high up the mix >and buggers up the fade. To me it was a surprise to hear, and a good one.Perhaps I am a Joni Mitchell fan and just haven't realised yet. I'd better listen to that Arthur Baker remix again I suppose, and get ready to make a humiliating climbdown. It won't be the first time. I don't own Permanent - just got the LWTUA single on vinyl and CD. Substance is such an odd piece of work - half hits, half rarities (and we know the usual reason why things are rare, don't we kids?) An on topic point - the digest which I read this morning contained a lot of quotes/info from Colin - has he done an interview recently that I've missed? Howard ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 11:50:43 -0600 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V4 #92 At 04:43 PM 3/27/2001 EST, you wrote: >In a message dated 27/03/01 17:27:38 GMT Daylight Time, >mflaher3@triton.cc.il.us writes: >>I often enjoy your endless dialogue with this list but do we really need >>a blow by blow account of everything that flooded the Rowland ears every >>few days? Actually, the owner of the above address did not write that, but responded to it--negatively. Neatness counts, Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 20:18:02 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] We Don't Get Enough Dada! "The relationship between the public and the art-form was challenged. Works of art were not created to be bought and sold and passively appreciated by an owner, but to touch upon the persons life and philosophical and social outlook on the world. It was far better to produce a reaction of extreme contempt, disgust or horror in the art-consumer that one of indifference, the sign of a failed and uninteresting work of art, and this reaction was most commonly produced through performance. Instead of painting in a studio an artist may have chosen to paint on stage, with the finished product the painting playing an almost secondary role to the performance, the act of painting it. Dada rejected the artistic, political and cultural preoccupations of the time, but did so in what could be described as a non-rebellious, isolationist manner. Instead of rebelling directly, attempting to destroy pervading values in art and society by waging war upon those values, the Dadaists pointedly focussed their attention on their own different set of concerns and got on with doing what they wanted to do. The status quo was of no concern to them, so why waste time specifically trying to disrupt it? They were enormously influential and revolutionary in the process - almost any manifestation of free thought in the 20th Century can be traced back to Dada in its influences and roots. From John and Yokos bed-in for peace to the Yippies, Situationism, Surrealism, Absurdism, Minimalism and Fluxus all have their roots in Dada." A painter called Gotobed did something along these lines at the jeanette cochrane didn't he? Credit where its due http://www.clicks-and-clangs.com Chopped from a piece on Faust. Howard Devoto is also featured in an article there. Its a nice site. The status quo was of no concern to them, so why waste time specifically trying to disrupt it? The status quo was irrelevant to them, so why try to disrupt it? (a bit of editing practice there, how am I doing?) Take a banana! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 12:43:43 -0800 (PST) From: Rick Hindman Subject: [idealcopy] OT - KC tidbits & KJ info & Rez invite Hey all- Looks like a King Crimson tour of the US in brewing up! Same lineup as the tCoL tour: Adrian Belew Robert Fripp Trey Gunn Pat Mastelloto Which was a ripping, rocking band, BTW! And a very interesting diary entry from Fripp on the DGM site regarding perceptions of KC around the world. Having heard the 'prog' label occasionally on this list, I thought it interesting how much good and bad weight it carries. It has also been fascinating to hear the Killing Joke info that's been batted around the IC list. I have only heard one album, an ex-roomate's copy of "Pandemonium" that I really didn't like much. I tend to like live albums, so I may check that one out. Thanks again for all of the varied music discussions! RJH PS - For any list folks around central CA, I am hosting a Resident's DVD party at my house this coming Sunday. If you're interested, please feel free to write to me. ===== - ----------------------------------------------------------- "Learn to handle hot things, keep your knives sharp, and above all, have a good time. - -Julia Child - ----------------------------------------------------------- Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 16:14:35 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - KC tidbits & KJ info & Rez invite In a message dated 28/03/01 21:53:15 GMT Daylight Time, r_j_h@yahoo.com writes: > It has also been fascinating to hear the Killing Joke > info that's been batted around the IC list. I have > only heard one album, an ex-roomate's copy of > "Pandemonium" that I really didn't like much. I tend > to like live albums, so I may check that one out. > > ////////// i think that's their mid-90's "comeback" album. all i'll say is , try and get to hear the first album as that defines them totally.p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 16:43:08 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy]OT: Killing Joke, King Crimson etc Rick, << regarding perceptions of KC around the world. Having heard the 'prog' label occasionally on this list, I thought it interesting how much good and bad weight it carries. >> I've been amazed at how many King Crimson fans there are on the list. KC always sounded like pretentious turgid prog bollocks to me. However, undeterred, I downloaded various tracks from various albums that list members recommended. Open mind and that. And...... ....it sounds like pretentious turgid prog bollocks. Sorry folks, but all prog must die. I didn't fight in the punk rock wars to be listening to prog rock in the 21st century...etc etc... As for Killing Joke, I really liked them when they came out. The first EP and the first album are still good, and I'd agree with Paul R that they were very good live - I saw them twice, once in 1980 (superb) and once about a year later (not quite as good)...but I have to say that I quickly lost interest. Don't think I bought anything after the first album, and certainly didn't like the later stuff at all. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 16:53:44 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Keith Levene didn't know about Wire but Mark Perry did In a message dated 26/03/01 18:43:29 GMT Daylight Time, crackedmachine@yahoo.co.uk writes: > > http://www.furious.com/perfect/keithlevene.html > > ///// thanks for that graeme , really enjoyed it. i'd never read an interview with kl before where he did anything other than slag off lydon and/or martin atkins. and who'd have thought his big hero was (gulp) steve howe. whose influence on metal box is not exactly totally obvious. glad to see him taking most of the credit for the first clash album ; modest as ever.......p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 17:36:16 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Keith Levene didn't know about Wire but Mark Perry did He looks like he doesn't get out much, judging by the pic on his web site! Mark << ///// thanks for that graeme , really enjoyed it. i'd never read an interview with kl before where he did anything other than slag off lydon and/or martin atkins. and who'd have thought his big hero was (gulp) steve howe. whose influence on metal box is not exactly totally obvious. glad to see him taking most of the credit for the first clash album ; modest as ever.......p >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 17:06:46 -0600 From: george.m.hook@accenture.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy]OT: Killing Joke, King Crimson etc Mark: It doesn't really surprise me. Fripp segued into the 1980s New Wave revolution in admirable fashion (the lead guitar on Eno's "Baby's On Fire" and "Blank Frank") and he figured prominently on Bowie's "Heroes" album--and Wire was a major influence on the "Low-Heroes-Lodger" trilogy. The repulsion against prog rock is neat, neat, neat, but ill informed. Of course, Emerson Lake and Palmer, Topographical Oceans Yes, and other Spinal Tapian groups had to be destroyed ... but once punk rock finished its 3-4 year run, the new wave groups turned to more "in tune" prog rocks groups for influence; for example, PIL of Metal Box era was obviously in touch with Can and other Krautrock groups, as well as Fred Frith and Henry Cow. As you fought the punk rock wars, I have been waging a campaign for reappraisal of the more progressive prog rock groups. George This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged or confidential information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 15:26:59 -0800 From: jasonmb@calweb.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Killing Joke >Where did you hear about a live Killing Joke album? I can't find >anything about it. I'll definitely be buying it. You can find all the info here: http://www.the-last-laugh.com/nowayout.htm - -- Jason Borchers jasonmb@calweb.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 15:36:20 -0800 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Mining Karlheinz and Kurt's Cardigans >Nirvana were a good rock band. Things moved too fast >and it all went wrong. My take on this is that >Corporate Greed (and maybe drugs) killed Nirvana. > >Punk had nothing to do with it. > I would agree with this statement. Having been born in Seattle, and visited Aberdeen, WA, where Kurt grew up, I would say that Punk probably kept him alive - he would have left years ago without it. Aberdeen is a pretty miserable place - especially if you're a gifted, sensitive teenager. Seattle is a little better - but it used to be pretty rough too. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 21:10:12 -0600 From: "squonk" Subject: [idealcopy] the best music actually, the best music is done by japanese kids failing miserably at imitating french kids failing dismally at ripping off black artists the same way american and british kids do > The best music is done by white kids failing miserably to immitate black > artists!!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 21:11:15 -0600 From: "squonk" Subject: [idealcopy] the best music (again) btw - i know i am late to the dance on this one, but outKast are rockin' *my* world these days ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 21:27:11 -0600 From: "squonk" Subject: [idealcopy] re: vic and spinning the tables on the white boys how charmingly off-topic i would have never expected to see victoria williams namechecked on this list that said - she is probably the most engaging live performers i have ever seen and to whoever asked about outKast if there is really such a thing as IDM - they are IRM (intelligent rap music) but without the nasty sophilism if , say , the anti-pop consortium , who at the end of the day are too smart to tap the toes to - no such problem with andre 3000 and bif boi! funkadelic sensibility with todays beatz also kickin' it today were sussan deyhim - madman of god tipsey - uh-oh! (better even than trip-tease) the new mice parade (post rock doesn't - dunno why i keep getting sucked in again -0 tortoise climb back in your shell and be gone) robert wyatt - schleep (brilliant still) and some bootleg ryuichi sakamoto piano concerts - mediochre sound quality audience tapes and pan-ethnic dj set looking forward to a bunch of chilDisc stuff i ordered today from tower.jp graeme - heard any of that? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 19:57:12 -0800 (PST) From: Rick Hindman Subject: [idealcopy] OT - math & Nirvana > >>>>Attempts to make music based on mathematical > equations exist in modern classical music, and is > basically one of the main reasons why people don't > write good classical stuff anymore. On a somewhat related note...while in college, I took 2 years worth of music composition classes and one of the prevailing themes in classical music up until the romantic era was that chord progressions followed very mathematical patterns. You can still see alot of it in pop music, which is what kind of makes the really commercial stuff seem kind of boring.. my $.02 > To me, punk means 'No Rules'. > I think that idea is very much alive and well. AGREED! I am sick to death of the concept of rebels being recognized only if they conform to a "James Dean" blueprint. > Another the reason that I am glad EMI messed up the > chances of 'Outdoor Miner' being a big hit. YES!!! For all of the "Wire could have been huge if..." threads that have arose on IC and elsewhere, I think that sort of commercial success causes as many (or more!) problems as it solves! Probably, Wire would not exist in any form if they did have a hit single. That was alot of $.02!!! Some great threads, though! Without getting corny...you IC folks are some of the coolest folks I've encountered...virtual or otherwise! Stay Ideal and keep copying!!! RJH Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 01:10:44 -0800 (PST) From: eric719@webtv.net (Eric Strang) Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Killing Joke <> Thanks for the link, that's a cool site. Eric ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #95 ******************************