From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #93 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, March 28 2001 Volume 04 : Number 093 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [idealcopy] Sounding Off: This Week's Portion ["giluz" ] Re: [idealcopy] Sounding Off: This Week's Portion ["ian jackson" ] RE: AW: [idealcopy] OffTopic - apostrophe - black music ["giluz" ] RE: AW: [idealcopy] OffTopic - apostrophe - black music ["stephen grazian] [idealcopy] OT my two cents on Arthur Baker and Joy Division [j alberson ] Re: [idealcopy] Wiry XTC ["Stephen Jackson" ] Re:[idealcopy] Sounding Off: This Week's Portion [=?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=2] [idealcopy] Terminal Boredom [=?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= ] Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Remix Ethics [Paul Pietromonaco ] [idealcopy] on faust, xtc, classical math and counting records [Eardrumbu] [idealcopy] Whitechapel Gallery Events [Mark McQuitty Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Sounding Off: This Week's Portion > Graeme Rowland wrote: > > > Is it always the same? > > Tell me what it's like when you've had enough! > > Graeme > > > .. > I've had enough I've had enough! I haven't had enough, Graeme, and I do wish more people would write about what they listen to. But a few words describing the artists you mention would be quite welcome. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 12:14:05 +0100 From: Howard Spencer Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Love will tear us apart remix - OT Love will tear us apart remix was just a cleaning up operation - the band were never happy with the original mixes as I recall. There is a nice guitar line in the outro that comes up nicely in the remix - the whole thing sounds less muddy and I'd say it was worth having. The Arthur Baker dance mix on the 12" is, on the other hand, truly pointless - vocal line over a one note repetitive disco bass. Haven't played it since the day I bought it. Howard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 13:29:21 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wiry XTC > > Merging two recent strands, I have been spending a bit of time in the car > > recently with Fossil Fuel and imagining wiping the vocals off XTC songs and > > finding that the backing tracks wouldn't be too out of place sung over by > > Newman or Lewis. They actually turn out quite unconventional. Some singles > > that could be confused for Wire outtakes ... > > > > Making Plans for Nigel - 154 > > Generals and Majors - IBTABA > > Wake Up - Manscape > >Hmmm...I'm not sure on this either. I don't know if it's on _Fossil >Fuels_, but some of the weirder backing tracks, like say "Roads Girdle the >Globe," *might* be viable in this way. On the whole, I think the bands >sound very different: XTC are far "better" musicians, in the traditional >sense, and their parts are correspondingly harder to play. Wire seldom >have any parts that are hard to play: it's coming up with the sounds and >the way they work together where their genius lies. __ Jeff,actually straight off, i got the 'Nigel' comparison and maybe 'G & M', though in both cases the guitars would have to 'spikier', i'll have to check my copy of Fossil Fuel for 'Wake Up', then again, i'm not a 'Manscape' fan. with you on your last point, by the way.Has anyone heard 'Sub-Space Biographies' by Robert Pollard (Guided By Voices mainman)????it's from his solo lp of a few years ago, called 'Waved Out', the riff is so Wire/Newman you listees would not believe it was anyone but Wire. check it out if you can, you'll love it.ian.s.j. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 13:52:38 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Sounding Off: This Week's Portion sorry graeme, but i'm with the good doctor on most of this one, lists are fine but overheard stuff on pub juke boxes??...come on!!!does hearing ' Don't You Want Me Baby' ten times a night (new U.K. advertising campaign) count?!? i'm still resisting the temptation to jump in, thank god i don't do a radio show anymore or you'd be reading lists of obscure 'benga', 'jit', 'rai', 'fado', 'township jive', alongside as yet unreleased Digital Hardcore Records stuff, Ace re-releases, Kranky, electronica, etc, etc,etc. Todays emails are being done to the sound of Bonnie Prince Billy's new LP and Autechre's 'LP5' (inspired by idealcopyists!) ...i'm here, i'm here, and i'm staying all night! ian.s.j. >From: Dr Volume >To: idealcopy@smoe.org >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Sounding Off: This Week's Portion >Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 01:11:05 +0100 > >Graeme Rowland wrote: > >>Is it always the same? >>Tell me what it's like when you've had enough! >>Graeme >> >.. >I've had enough I've had enough! > >Well not quite....but can I be so bold as to offer some constructive >critcism? Don't take this the wrong way ol' Crack'd Machine dude.. > >Today (after work where there is no music only the Spinning of >Doctors) >I only had time to listen to the "Radiohead play the hits of Aphex >Twin >LP", a couple of Kid 606 things, Cocteau Twins/Seefeel >collaboration >from ages ago, thrashed around on the guitar (plugged into a Zoom >505II >pedal...make your own Bruce Gilbert/Newman solo LPs in your >headphones >for #69 a snip!) and I am now listening to Vision Creation by the >Boredoms which is the sound of pure energy and joy. A good evenings >listening all told, Alas it seems I can sum up my days listening in >a >single paragraph! > >We've established that you own a mountain of Audio Information and >the >lifestyle that allows you to listen to it. Are you a DJ or >something? > >I often enjoy your endless dialogue with this list but do we really >need >a blow by blow account of everything that flooded the Rowland ears >every >few days? OK I heard the Popstars album in a record store earlier >as >well, (it was without merit) and I heard the wonderful Outkast >record.....no-one wants to know about that from me though do they? > >I'm always on the look out for new music and you seem to have an >endless >supply so how about you give us Rowlands picks of the week, an Alan >'Fluff' Freeman style rundown of what has really frazzled your >cerebral >cortex this week, but don't just make long lists of obscurities to >show >off your vast collection, tell us why *we* the Idealcopyists should >perhaps get this as well! You're a pretty good writer, but learn to >edit >cos IMHO you're getting boring.....and I know you wouldnt want that. > >The Good Doctor. > > >"When you've seen too much is it almost the same?" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 14:18:01 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] OFF TOPIC - Big Black's Heartbeat i agree with Ian Grant's comments on this subject. having said that, there was probably no other way of doing the cover version. my feeling is that Albini was obviously paying homage to a band he loved and admired, as with Kraftwerk, and if there was a chance of working with them, all the better... ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 14:51:47 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] apostrophe frank wrote :- >Is the mentioning of a motown act allowed on this list? of course it is frank, in fact, if i remember correctly from a conversation a few years ago, i believe Mr. Newman is a big Motown fan.. the thought had struck me that there wasn't much discussion of black music on the list, but i don't think it's an issue!! ian.s.j.(on a love train, love train...) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 16:16:43 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: AW: [idealcopy] OffTopic - apostrophe - black music > frank wrote :- > >Is the mentioning of a motown act allowed on this list? > > of course it is frank, in fact, if i remember correctly from a > conversation > a few years ago, i believe Mr. Newman is a big Motown fan.. > the thought had struck me that there wasn't much discussion of > black music > on the list, but i don't think it's an issue!! You're not the first to mention it. Personally, black music is something I can absolutely live without. I appreciate it and am aware of it being one of the primary sources to be ripped off by most of the musical genres that I like. Still, in the last 20 years or so, it's been over-emphasised and over-played to the point where I'm quite sick of it. The best music is done by white kids failing miserably to immitate black artists!!! giluz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 15:36:55 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: RE: AW: [idealcopy] OffTopic - apostrophe - black music giluz wrote :- >The best music is done by white kids failing miserably to immitate black >artists!!! hmmmmmmm..... all very debatable. white kids with computers (but with no actual musical talent) interest me less than four African guys with three guitars and drum kit, but maybe you've never experienced this kind of thing in the flesh. i suggest you do at the earliest opportunity. ian.s.j. (...all the time, they want to take your place...) >From: "giluz" >To: "IdealCopy" , "ian jackson" > >Subject: RE: AW: [idealcopy] OffTopic - apostrophe - black music >Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 16:16:43 +0200 > > > frank wrote :- > > >Is the mentioning of a motown act allowed on this list? > > > > of course it is frank, in fact, if i remember correctly from a > > conversation > > a few years ago, i believe Mr. Newman is a big Motown fan.. > > the thought had struck me that there wasn't much discussion of > > black music > > on the list, but i don't think it's an issue!! > >You're not the first to mention it. Personally, black music is something I >can absolutely live without. I appreciate it and am aware of it being one >of >the primary sources to be ripped off by most of the musical genres that I >like. Still, in the last 20 years or so, it's been over-emphasised and >over-played to the point where I'm quite sick of it. > > >giluz > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 06:46:59 -0800 (PST) From: j alberson Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wiry XTC I don't see "Generals and Majors" fitting anywhere at all, but the other two might go well with the "Chairs Missing" material. Being sucked in again, Jack - --- PaulRabjohn@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 26/03/01 22:22:37 GMT Daylight > Time, ssheen@clara.co.uk > writes: > > > > Some singles > > that could be confused for Wire outtakes ... > > > > Making Plans for Nigel - 154 > > Generals and Majors - IBTABA > > Wake Up - Manscape > > > > By curious coincidence, also all Moulding efforts. > > > > ///////// well i've not heard "wake up" but as for > the other 2........do you > really think so? too "bouncy" shurely? p Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 09:52:41 -0500 From: "stephen graziano" Subject: RE: AW: [idealcopy] OffTopic - apostrophe - black music >From: "giluz" . Personally, black music is something I >can absolutely live without. ... it's been over-emphasised and >over-played to the point where I'm quite sick of it. > >The best music is done by white kids failing miserably to immitate black >artists!!! > >giluz Spoken like a true white man. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 06:55:38 -0800 (PST) From: j alberson Subject: [idealcopy] OT my two cents on Arthur Baker and Joy Division Hey all: Since I've noticed that my opinion always ends up differing from everybody else on this list and I end up playing devil's advocate, I thought I'd pitch in on the Joy Division remixes. The Gehman remix (he, by the way recorded "Lifes Rich Pageant" for R.E.M.) is nice. He did clean things up, and the rhythm guitar is an interesting surprise...it reminds me of The Byrds (despite the fact that it's obviously not a 12-string). As for the Arthur Baker remix, let me be the one person on the list that actually likes it. By the end, it picks up a little drive and completely changes the dynamic of the song for me. Framed it in a completely different context. I dare say it would be interesting to see what other people could do to reimagine some other JD songs (high on my list being "Something Must Break" and some of the "Closer" material). Bruce Gilbert tackling "Atmosphere"? I'd pay to hear THAT. Positions are shifting, Jack Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 16:40:54 +0100 From: "Stephen Jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wiry XTC .On the whole, I think the bands >sound very different: XTC are far "better" musicians, with the notable exception of their drummer on the first 5 XTC albums, Terry Chambers who had 'spirit' rather than technique, rather like Mr Gotobed. Terry is a great drummer, and i'm not talking about his ability to flam and do paradiddles....XTC's loss when he left. Listen to Making Plans, or Roads Girdle the Globe or Travel in Nihilon or Heaven is Paved With Broken Glass, and listen to the man hit them . Pure feeling..... Steve. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ They use the head and not the fist. - -----Original Message----- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 17:05:09 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: Re:[idealcopy] Sounding Off: This Week's Portion - --- Carl Schmitz wrote: > Hihi, Sorry for the bother, but I just had to ask > about yr post (I am cuckoo > for Bruce Gilbert) - what is 'Radio Impakt'? Its a recording of Bruce doing a performance using radios at the Impakt Festival. It also includes a short interview in which he confesses to an attraction to distortion... The whole thing can be heard as a Realplayer audio file on 'I Am Wired' which you'll find a link to on www.pinkflag.com resources section. A bit risky? Graeme ===== Cracked Machine webzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 17:09:17 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Terminal Boredom Giluz said >>>>Very clever indeed. I've seen Underworld's last concert at Lowlands Festival last summer, and it was so BOOORING. Talk about emperors new clothes. Terminal boredom! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine webzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 17:13:28 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Mice Parade? Mark said >>>>>Was that an advance O'Shea CD on the list? No its a tape of the aoriginal album. I don't think WMO have got any copies pressed up just yet! >>>>>Fancy the FatCat comp. It's a corker. I'd especially recommend the AMM 12" (not featured on the comp) and the Speedranch^Jansky Noise / Anthony Childs 12" The downside is that only one track from each artist is featured, and some are edited. >>>>Anyone checking out Mice Parade imminent tour? Are they playing in Manchester? ===== Cracked Machine webzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 17:16:02 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Fall Karaoke Giluz said >>>>While on the subject of Karaoke, I just had a vision: Imagine a Karaoke machine dedicated to Fall songs, including the naff Karaoke videos and especially the lyrics streaming across the screen. MES would probably be delighted. This is one of my favourite hobbies (singing along to The Fall). I did it at a Prolapse gig once and three of them accompanied me on an impromptu rendition of 'Eat Y'self fitter!' Wots a computuh? Graeme ===== Cracked Machine webzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 17:19:03 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Killing Joke First album = essential, vicious and nasty and hard. Ripped off by many crap metallers. 'The Wait' is their best one. Everything up to 'Night Time' is quite good, then it gets patchy. See the sun turn green From my penthouse window! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine webzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 10:14:39 -0600 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V4 #92 >From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= >Interviews with Mark Perry & Keith Levene can be read >on the latest Perfect Sound Forever > >http://www.furious.com/perfect/alternativetv.html > >http://www.furious.com/perfect/keithlevene.html Thanks. Very worth while. Strange: on the way in to work today I thought about Levene, and wondered if he was still alive (it's true!). Great to see him back in a creative mode. >I often enjoy your endless dialogue with this list but do we really need >a blow by blow account of everything that flooded the Rowland ears every >few days? Well, I vote yes. In fact, I consider these posts among the more useful on this list. Granted, I'll never have the time or money to hear all he hears either, but it's like reading Wire: full of good things to know about. That Mr. Rowland's taste in music is closer to mine than are most on this list probably has something to do with my interest as well. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 17:27:35 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] XTC not Wire ///////// well i've not heard "wake up" but as for the other 2........do you really think so? too "bouncy" shurely? p Must say I totally agree with you there Paul. Making Plans For Nigel would really spoil my favourite album, even if Bruce sang over the backing track! I rather like the last track on 'Drums & Wires' though. Is there an XTC album called 'No drums and wirs' then? It continues... Graeme ===== Cracked Machine webzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 17:31:54 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Satire >>>>I often enjoy your endless dialogue with this list but do we really need a blow by blow account of everything that flooded the Rowland ears every few days? No. In fact, we don't really need the internet at all. The word is satire... So tired... Actually its just a way of sparking off curiosity. One more time in the ghetto! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine webzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 17:34:11 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] PO Doctor said >>>>I heard the Popstars album in a record store earlier as well, (it was without merit) and I heard the wonderful Outkast record... Who are Popstars? Who is Outkast? I'm curious now! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine webzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 17:36:43 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Humble Boring Opinions Doctor said IMHO you're getting boring.....and I know you wouldnt want that. Actually I don't care. Scroll and delete! ===== Cracked Machine webzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 17:42:57 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Faust fans say yes to 154 Faust listers recently voted for their top ten albums. 154 got 3 votes. That's from me Giluz, is the other Faust / Wire fan here too? Graeme ===== Cracked Machine webzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 19:05:33 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Zoom Colin Newman says... "In the interest of accuracy I should point out that zoom is actually the first piece based on a sampled sequence made by Robert! Graham & Bruce contribute loops and I play an e.bow melody." Coincidence - the ad up on Yahoo above the mail Colin sent me about Zoom reads : "On Mother's Day, make her day with Zoom" ===== Cracked Machine webzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 19:08:12 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] At it again: Phill Niblock on The Brain Art is the only truly revolutionary force in the world. Phill Niblock - Touch Works, for Hurdy Gurdy and Voice http://brainwashed.com/brain/ have uploaded my Niblock review this week, go read, go read! Also Niblock biography here for those interested in drone: http://www.touch.demon.co.uk/Biographies/phillniblock.html Kitchen compilation (13th Hour especially) http://www.pigdogrecordings.com PiL - Metal Box (Second Edition) Low - Things We Lost in the Fire Tomorrowland - Sequence of the Negative Space Changes ......................................bedtime The Fall - Kimble Lee Ranaldo - Dirty Windows Vibracathedral Orchestra - Live at Manc Uni tape Wire - Live in Edinburgh 2000 tape (after 'Ally in Exile' Mark Bursa said, "Fuckin' sounds awesome!" Too true! Too true!) JJ Howard - Human Commodity Recordings http://www.rsirecordings.co.uk Scala - Slide (inc. amazing Bruce Gilbert remix) Tortoise - Standards Pan Sonic - Aaltopiiri Ocsid - In Between Pan Sonic - Aaltopiiri ........this time on walkman 'phones, sun goes down, walked past past Hacienda "reinventing city living" plastered all over corporate-ulent fading Fall poster mingled Diet Pixl (Daniel Weaver & Alex Impey) Gommorrahh (Mild Man Jan & Weaver) All three together after I goaded Impey into it playing live at aLECTRO-eCOUSTIC in Bar Centro http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine/aLECTRO.htm Avoided 'Throbbing Gristle Is An Overrated Band' beer brand in favour of vegan Coil Website Moonrise bottle then legged it across the road... Penthouse - live at ProleKult at the Night & Day Cafe http://www.fiftytons.co.uk Three quid in, Met a man with green hair. Shouted along to 'Ceremony' & 'Into The Groove(y)' at post performance punk disco. Requests for Metal Box, Wire & Big Black were ignored. DJ excuse: "All my Wire is on CD!" Cue "Get Pink Flag on vinyl" rant! The lagers tasted metal! ........................taxi home to Alex park! Sachiko M - Detect 3" (recommended hangover cure) Otomo Yoshihide - Digital Tranquilizer 3" The Fall - Kimble (These are the words of expectation) Disco Operating System - Love in an Alligator ...........new tape from Chorlectronica maestro G Bibby Buzzcocks - Chronology (demos, hilarity) The Slits - Cut (Typical Girls in Hulme back alleys) Phroq plays Sleep (a nice bit of noise sculpture) http://www.pigdogrecordings.com Keep strummin' them buzz-buzz guitars! B'dom B'dom! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine webzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 19:10:31 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Punk Was Dead (Again) Giluz said >>>>Attempts to make music based on mathematical equations exist in modern classical music, and is basically one of the main reasons why people don't write good classical stuff anymore. Pierre Henry and Bernard Parmegiani still write good stuff. Is that classical though? Is Luigi Nono still with us? >>>>Writing stuff based on Maths can work only if you use it as something to start with and then progress from there. If you dig serialism shout "Fish!" Put yr hands in the air like ya just don't care!!! Earlier Giluz said >>>>I was quite thrilled when 'Smells Like Teen Spirit' climbed the charts. When it got to no. 1 I began suspecting that something fishy was in the air. An enjoyable record at No. 1 is a rare thing indeed. >>>>By the time I watched Nirvana smash guitars at the MTV awards I realised that punk-rock was dead. If there was any single band/artist responsible for this it would be them. Punk died in 1977. Guilty: The Clash. It died again in 1978. And then in 1979 punk was pushing up the daisies. 1980 - punk kicked the bucket! It was wormfood by '81. 1982 saw punk shuffle off this mortal coil. By 1983, punk had had in its chips. Punk mortified in nineteen eighty FORE! Someone forgot to mention its death to Penthouse, who played in Manchester last night! Iggy Pop's my favourite zombie! The misfits and outcasts have done it at last, The die of destruction is finally cast! The drug crazed punk rockers' greatest excess: He Said Omala caught wearing a dress! Please try to keep a straight face, Dead Cities! Dead Cities! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine webzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 14:51:36 EST From: MrSodium@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] (no subject) >One of the more intriguing classical releases of last >year featured the voice of the Great Caruso(taken from >early twentieth century recordings) backed by a modern >symphony orchestra. A question of artistic/musical ethics...Just because the technology exists to allow something to be done, should it be done? In theory the ability to recapture and "polish" older performances may be a good thing, but it ultimately leads to the self indulgent and presumptious, i.e., Kenny G spoozing his cheesy, out of tune wanking onto a Louis Armstrong performance, or Natalie Cole exhuming her father and doing a crappy MOR "duet" with his ghost. (Pat Metheny wrote a great rant on this subject on his website). Also not too far removed from the distressing practice of modern artists in doing box set or other reissues to remix or rerecord tracks to eliminate the performance/contributions of old members now out of favor. (Fripp/KC, Shriekback, Tangerine Dream, to name a few of the more egregious offenders). "Admirable restraint" is called for, in my view. Part of what made Caruso great was his ability to transcend the limitations of his medium. Strip him of that and he is just another Andrea Boccelli. MrNa ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 15:15:37 -0600 (CST) From: "BotServerCentral-Sector:Mail a/k/a 2 Fs" Subject: [idealcopy] test ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 16:43:07 EST From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V4 #92 In a message dated 27/03/01 17:27:38 GMT Daylight Time, mflaher3@triton.cc.il.us writes: > > >I often enjoy your endless dialogue with this list but do we really need > >a blow by blow account of everything that flooded the Rowland ears every > >few days? > > Well I too concur that Mr Rowland's near daily account of his musical choosings are both informative & witty.But Graeme how the hell can you listen to so much stuff ? I feel near exhausted just reading what you've listened to ! Still I feel I must respond. This week on the O'Connell turntable & CD player. Boards Of Canada - In a beautiful place out in the country (Awesome) Future Sound Of London - We have explosive (4 Mixes) Mogwai - Xmas steps (people this CDS is absolutely top quality) Stereolab -Dots & Loops A Certain Ratio -Sextet LP Gentle Giant -The Power & The Glory (political or what?) LP The Pirates -Skull Wars LP John Stevens Away -mazin Ennit LP Penguin Cafe Orchestra - Signs Of Life Colin Newman - It seems LP Oh & I've just ordered Orbital tickets.I feel too old to stand these days ! Chriswire ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 16:03:13 -0600 (CST) From: "BotServerCentral-Sector:Mail a/k/a 2 Fs" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wiry XTC On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, ian jackson wrote: > anyone heard 'Sub-Space Biographies' by Robert Pollard (Guided By Voices > mainman)????it's from his solo lp of a few years ago, called 'Waved Out', > the riff is so Wire/Newman you listees would not believe it was anyone > but Wire. check it out if you can, you'll love it.ian.s.j. Oh, absolutely. In fact, if someone had told me the instrumental was an outtake from _AZ_, I'd believe them. Same way of playing with a simpe riff while the chords change around it, and the way that second-to-last note doesn't belong harmonically (but works anyway): very Newman-y. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::I'M ONLY AS LARGE AS AN ANT AND I'M HIDING INSIDE YOUR CAR:: __cryptic placemat phrase, Madison WI, 1986__ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 15:25:31 -0800 (PST) From: Creatured Subject: [idealcopy] ER~ Big Black's Heartbeat(Live Video) you guys should watch Big Black video (7/24/87 London) then you can see Big Black with Grahm & Lewis doing Heartbeat. Then ya can bitch about that not being perfect or maybe it's better than perfect;) Creatured http://www.angelfire.com/weird/bootlegs - --- Ian Grant wrote: > At 04:30 26/03/01 -0500, Graeme wrote: > >Big Black - Heartbeat 7" (only Wire cover ever to > >equal the original), Headache 12" > > I can't let that go, even if I have previously proclaimed the > greatness of > Big Black on this list. Admittedly, I was a great admirer of the > cover > until I finally heard the original. At that point, however, it began > to > remind me of an elephant trying to tap-dance. > > The beauty of the original - Wire at their most exquisite, to my mind > - is > its delicacy. You're always acutely aware that its structures would > easily > lend themselves to the kind of treatment that Big Black give it, yet > that > violence remains implicit rather than explicit. Instead, you get the > > splendid rise and fall of the riff, the steady build-up and the fade > away > long before any kind of crescendo, the understatement of an idea by a > band > in complete control. Sublime, indeed. In comparison, the Big Black > version just sounds crass. > > Having said all that, I'm off to listen to the new Sepultura lp, > so.... > > Cheers, > > ig. Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 18:08:27 -0800 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Remix Ethics >Also not too far removed from the distressing practice of modern artists in doing box set or other reissues to remix or rerecord tracks to eliminate the performance/contributions of old members now out of favor. (Fripp/KC, Shriekback, Tangerine Dream, to name a few of the more egregious offenders). > I have to praise George Harrison here. In his new CD issue of "All Things Must Past", he mentions the temptation to "take off some of the reverb", but decided that the album was of a piece with its history and should be left as is. Nice one, George. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 18:32:00 -0800 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Remix Ethics > In his new CD issue of "All >Things Must Past", Jeez - where's *my* head at? All Things Must Past.... cripes! Bela Lugosi's Dead, Paul *********************************************************** Brain: "Pinky, Are You Pondering What I'm Pondering?" Pinky: "I think so Brain, but can the gummy worms really live in peace with the marshmallow chips?" Paul Pietromonaco Test Engineer - Reflection X WRQ, Inc. E-Mail: paulp@wrq.com *********************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 23:57:04 EST From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] on faust, xtc, classical math and counting records hi, just felt the sudden urge to jot down (okay, type) a few thoughts on current topics... i'm a faust fan. the only recent recordings i own are the two live ones on table of the elements. great stuff. so far is one of my favorite albums. so is 154. generals and majors has never reminded me of wire, nor have any other xtc tunes. however, now that it's been mentioned here, making plans is quite wirey. drums & wires and black sea are my two fave xtc albums. there are a few tunes on both that have a wirey feel. i definitely hear it now. alban berg and anton webern were two contemporaries of schoenberg. (i think i got the first names right.) if you like more analytical math music, try webern. for more expressionistic, emotive math music go with berg. how about wim mertens though?! now there's a guy who can express himself without forgetting his times tables :o) here's a little list off my cd player and turntable this week. i have an incredibly crazy, hectic life with my 2 kids, and i am surprised i got to th is much! i couldn't resist: my kids listen (and dance) to most of these with me... stereolab-dots & loops, miss modular, first of the microbe hunters uilab-st elmo's fire snowpony-slow motion world of... mccarthy-banking violence... wim mertens-strategie de la rupture sugarplant-happy, trance mellow durutti column-sporadic recordings, vini reilly, sex & death south pacific-33 go betweens-spring hill fair, liberty belle... psychedelic furs-mirror moves, world outside, talk talk talk, psychedelic furs this perfect day-c 60 half string-eclipse oval hue medicine-sounds of... 17 pygmies-hatikva, missy fish, jedda by the sea tone-sustain nelly furtado-whoa nelly les negresses vertes-en public cath carroll-england made me fourwaycross-on the other hand, shimmer mahogany-dream of a modern day low-long division talk talk-laughing stock rainer bruninghaus-freigeweht wire-ibtaba, 154 grant lee phillips-ladies love oracle victoria williams-loose smiths-louder than bombs, meat is murder peter gabriel-so einsturzende neubauten-tabula rasa, silence is sexy and last but not least, a children's recording i honestly enjoy listening to with my kids... the wiggles-toot toot ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 08:10:17 +0100 From: Mark McQuitty Subject: [idealcopy] Whitechapel Gallery Events Thought you lot might be interested...got the following from the Whitchapel Gallery website... CONTINUITY DISOBEY Late June - Early July 2001 The Whitechapel is working closely with Mute Records to create an exhilarating and challenging programme of contemporary art, music and dance. Collaborators include renowned choreographer and dancer Michael Clark, artist Cerith Wyn Evans teamed with Wire, Finnish band Panasonic working with Carsten Nicolai, and many others. =========== So it would seem that Wire are not curating the events as I understood from what had previously Colin said. Still worth a look though :) Cheers Mark. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 23:47:40 -0800 From: jasonmb@calweb.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Killing Joke >>As you mentioned them I'd like to hear the opinions of the lists's >>subscribers about KJ. I have several records of them ( the early 10'' ep >>"are you receiving" among them ) and while I don't listen to them very >>often I have to say there are days in my life where listening to KJ >>is a must. Similar it is with Tool's second CD ( cannot remember the tilte >>right now ). >Frank, > >I prefer Brighter Than A 1000 Suns and Nighttime to the early stuff. >Brighter is a great album to be played at full volume (and make sure you >join in on the "woah"'s!). >The early stuff is still good. Avoid "Outside The Gate" like the plague. This list introduced me to KJ. I like all of their albums, but Brighter... and Night Time are also my favorites. Brighter is a perfect album -- not one bad song all the way through. Anyone else picking up the new live disc next week? ("No Way Out But Forward Go") - -- Jason Borchers jasonmb@calweb.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 00:04:29 -0800 (PST) From: eric719@webtv.net (Eric Strang) Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Killing Joke Where did you hear about a live Killing Joke album? I can't find anything about it. I'll definitely be buying it. Eric ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #93 ******************************