From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #88 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Friday, March 23 2001 Volume 04 : Number 088 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [idealcopy] OT David Sylvian [Alistair Tear ] [idealcopy] RE: [OFF TOPIC] Shellac [Ian Grant ] [idealcopy] OT-Galactic Symposium ["ian jackson" ] [idealcopy] Pere Ubu list ["Syarzhuk Kazachenka" ] [idealcopy] No Wave [george.m.hook@accenture.com] [idealcopy] Pub-land trivia! [JH3 ] [idealcopy] OT: New music from old [voyteck@webtv.net] AW: [idealcopy] No Wave [Woerner Frank ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 09:07:00 -0000 From: Alistair Tear Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT David Sylvian > Man - we in the states got ripped off again. > But I guarantee you paid 1/2 what it costs over here A ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 13:48:15 -0000 From: Alistair Tear Subject: [idealcopy] OT-acting musicains Can't let this thread go by without a (dis-) honourable mention for Mr Joe Strummer in Jim Jarmusch's 'Mystery Train'. Buttock-clenching awful. Sank the film for me. A ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 11:30:22 -0000 From: "Stephen Jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] FSAMV trivia >Barry Andrews >Bjork >Tracy Ulman No Barry Andrews IIRC, but Barry Adamson and Howard Devoto (ex- Magazine) are in there, and from memory....Barney Sumner, The Cocteau twins, John Peel,Steve Martin (??????) Somebody out of Propaganda (??)... Who else? Steve. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ They use the head and not the fist. ------------------------------ Date: 5 Mar 2001 10:10:57 -0000 From: Ian Grant Subject: [idealcopy] RE: [OFF TOPIC] Shellac Graeme wrote: >Big Black was one of THE greatest rock bands!!! For me, hearing Big Black's "Atomiser" for the first time was a completely life-changing moment. As a seventeen year old, it introduced me to the idea that music could hit you so hard and so ferociously that the rest of the world suddenly became a rather wishy-washy, tedious place. The Wedding Present never sounded quite the same again, unsurprisingly. I bought the last Shellac LP out of curiosity, after reading some extremely positive reviews. For me, it failed to excite. The loud bits were structurally impressive, but somehow soulless. The quiet bits made me want to listen to Codeine. Cheers, ig. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 23:00:04 -0800 (PST) From: Joseph Silber Subject: [idealcopy] Fwd: Mail System Error - Returned Mail | ///Are there any Wire fans here who dislike Faust, | Beefheart or Shellac? | If so, what was it about it you didn't like? /// | | Don't know Faust or Shellac and only a wee bit of Beefheart. TMR is one of | those albums I've been meaning to get for ages (in '88 it was listed in | Rolling Stone's Top 100 most important albums, but then again so were | Thriller and Off The Wall). Isn't Shellac Steve Albini's post-Big Black | gig? | | | ///If you had to choose one non-Wire related release to | listen to over & over, what would it be? /// | | Probably nothing in the rock/pop idiom, though Filigree & Shadow is a | distinct possibility. Billie Holiday's Lady Sings the Blues or Lady In | Satin, Miles Davis' Birth of the Cool or Porgy & Bess, La Nef's Music For | Joan The Mad (late 15th C. Spanish folk music - gorgeous). | | //What other music related lists are Ideal Copiers | subscribed to? // | | Um, Blue Period (SF glam band | -http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/58/blue_period.html), Red Meat (a San | Francisco Texas Swing act - http://www.redmeat.net/audio.htm), and Marginal | Prophets (SF hip hop/rock band - | http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/44/the_marginal_prophets.html) | | dwei pfennigs from Joseph | | - - - - - - - - | It's no fun being an intellectual by yourself... | Book - Arden of Faversham (anonymous 17th C. revenge drama) | Film - The Gene Krupa Story (Sal Mineo as Krupe - excellent - the script | could have used a little work) | CD - John Fahey: Let Go (guitarist who died a couple weeks ago, found this | tape in the Sam Goody cutout bin today - good shit - very versatile, solo | instrumental, mostly California folk-style), Soft Boys: Underwater Moonlight | (bought my tickets this morning - April 7th at the Fillmore. Fuck Yeah.) | | | | | | _______________________________________________________ | Send a cool gift with your E-Card | http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ | | - - - - - - - - - It's no fun being an intellectual by yourself... Book - Film - CD - _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 23:39:19 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Frank_J=FCrgen_W=F6rner?= Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OFF TOPIC - Nice New Wave - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Cc: Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 10:03 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OFF TOPIC - Nice New Wave > > >>////// i have a big problem with those bands , at school all the plastic > punks instantly jumped on the mod revival bandwagon and i still can't take it > seriously to this day. i even sufferred the chords live once. between 'em i > think they added up to a jam b-side. and i don't like the jam much.......<< > > Blackpool was something of a Mod mecca in 1979, so we got most of the nu-Mod > bands on tour (at the Norbreck Castle Nite Spot...). Some of them were truly > dire (eg the Merton Parkas, or the imaginatively named The Mods). Some were > cleraly Very Old Men jumping on the bandwagon (the Crooks, anyone?!) But > others did have some spark to them. Purple Hearts were pretty good (punk > band in suits, basically). Support was the Nips if I recall....never saw the > Chords. Guess I would have enjoyed it more than you did :-) Oh yeah, this list's members seem to know all the acts I liked in '79. I think I was the only mod at this time in Hamburg. I still have all the albums ( Merton Parkas, Secret Affair, etc. ) but prefer the "ska thing" now when looking back.. I saw the Beat, Specials, Selecter at this time in Hamburg and was perfectly dressed when I wore my cool black suit. The Wild Swans were mentioned ... what a coincidence, I just had their second cd in my discman this week. Anyone of you heard of the Swell Maps and the Cravats ... had their records playing this evening ... still worth listening after all these years. Frank from Bavaria ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 23:06:56 -0000 From: "ian jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: [OFF TOPIC] Shellac shellac still to better 'At Action Park', though 'Psrayer To God' from '1000 Hurts' must rank as one of the best things Albini's ever recorded. ian.s.j. >From: Ian Grant >To: idealcopy@smoe.org >Subject: [idealcopy] RE: [OFF TOPIC] Shellac >Date: 5 Mar 2001 10:10:57 -0000 > >Graeme wrote: > > >Big Black was one of THE greatest rock bands!!! > >For me, hearing Big Black's "Atomiser" for the first time was a completely >life-changing moment. As a seventeen year old, it introduced me to the >idea that music could hit you so hard and so ferociously that the rest of >the world suddenly became a rather wishy-washy, tedious place. The >Wedding Present never sounded quite the same again, unsurprisingly. > >I bought the last Shellac LP out of curiosity, after reading some >extremely positive reviews. For me, it failed to excite. The loud bits >were structurally impressive, but somehow soulless. The quiet bits made >me want to listen to Codeine. > >Cheers, > >ig. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 18:11:46 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Ooer Missus! Vic Split Velvet Underpants Graeme, By far your most entertaining piece for ages...not least for the following, 100% accurate parallel!! << Kevin Eden is Victor Bockris >> You're right about Sterling too. All up-strokes, just like Mr Lewis's bass playing. One of the absolute highlights of my gig-going life was seeing Sterling play.... Sadly Dome won't make "24-hour mad for it me out me fookin head on e party people oops we forgot to get New Order to sign the contract I'm on telly me the old dears like me reading the news bugger Ian's topped himself party people". Nor will Palais Schaumburg's performance, where there were more people in the band than in the audience. The bass player played from the dance floor for large parts of the gig. Superb! Still got the poster... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 18:18:30 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OFF TOPIC - Nice New Wave Frank, << Oh yeah, this list's members seem to know all the acts I liked in '79. I think I was the only mod at this time in Hamburg. I still have all the albums ( Merton Parkas, Secret Affair, etc. ) but prefer the "ska thing" now when looking back.. I saw the Beat, Specials, Selecter at this time in Hamburg and was perfectly dressed when I wore my cool black suit. >> Soemwhere I have a 1979 German ska single (!!) by the very excellent Fehlfarben. Guns of Navarone theme, 100mph ska with demented German vocals. Truly marvellous! >>The Wild Swans were mentioned ... what a coincidence, I just had their second cd in my discman this week.<< Never really followed them when they reformed. But they were probably the best third-on-the-bill-band-you've-never-heard-of I've ever seen back in 1981. That first single is still great (and sits next to Wire in the vinyl section!) >>Anyone of you heard of the Swell Maps and the Cravats ... had their records playing this evening ... still worth listening after all these years.<< Yes, definitely. I knew Rob and Shend from the Cravats pretty well, as they worked in a record shop in Brimingham where I used to hang out. Always playing Birmingham pubs, usually with the Nightingales. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 23:45:54 -0000 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] OT_nice new wave frank, i think the Beat and the Specials still sound great. i must try to buy S.Maps 'Trip To Marineville' on CD soon, the Cravats was the infamous Shend wasn't it? i remember 'Let's Go Out' but was that the Cravats or another Shend-band? ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 00:10:34 -0000 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] OT-Galactic Symposium just heard G.S.'s version of 'YMCA' on John Peel's show again, anyone got any further info on this lot? why won't anyone re-release the single? they would make a fortune,...well y'know...ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 01:19:16 +0100 From: "Jan J Noorda" Subject: [idealcopy] (Wire OT but not totally) Rune Lindblad Did receive the ode to Rune Lindblad cd/lp/booklet published by Fargfabriken today. The package looks very well And I must say our Lewis did a nice contribution. It's called: "A strong candidate for isolation". A piece of music in a way I haven't heard before of him. Long sounds.I have no idea how far he used or reformed the sound of RL yet. I like also the other contributions like Leif Elggren, B. Nilsen, CM von Hauswolff, K. Tankred, J.L Huhta and by the master RL himself. He Said: Takes you away, brings you straight back ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:54:47 -0800 (PST) From: Rick Hindman Subject: Re: [idealcopy]OT - Soft Boys Yeeha!! I just bought my ticket for the 4/7 show at the Fillmore in SF! That should be a great show! Thanks for the set list and review! RJH - --- Stephen Graziano wrote: > Soft Boys 9:30 Club Washington DC 3/21/01 > > You'll Have to Go Sideways > Kingdom of Love > He's A Reptile > I'm An Old Pervert > Unknown #1 (You're Part of Rock and Roll) > Underwater Moonlight > Queen of Eyes > I Wanna Destroy You > Unknown #2 (Evil Guy) > Leppo and the Jooves > Unknown #3 (Horn of Florida) > Insanely Jealous > Only the Stones Remain > > Encore > Human Music > Rock and Roll Toilet > Bells of Rhymey > Unknown #4 (Maybe It'll Rain) > > Encore 2 > Give It to the Soft Boys (performed by YFF w/ Morris > on drums) > Unknown #5 (City of Shame) > Where Are the Prawns > > Thursday's performance of the Soft Boys at DC's 9:30 > club turned out to be a > magical night of triumph for the band. Support was > provided by the Young > Fresh Fellows (who I only knew through a 1992ish > Frontier release called "It's > Lo Beat Time" which didn't too greatly impress me. > They actually had a very > punchy sound - both guitarits playing through Fender > Twin Reverbs - that > provided a nice cross between 60's garage pysche and > late 70's power pop. At > times they reminded be of both the great late > Slickee Boys and Sweden's > Nomads. Maybe there was a touch too much comedic > schtick in the act but they > genuinely seemed to be having a great time > performing, as if in on a great > party and really thrilled to be opening for the Soft > Boys. I particularly > enjoyed their cover of the Kinks "Picture Book". > The Soft Boys opened with the instrumental - as if > still unsure of themselves > and the hall acoustics using a time honored > technique of allowing the sound > man a full song to set levels before worrying about > getting the vocals across. > The mix never quite settled in (though the YFF had > great sound) with Morris's > drums undermixed throughout, and the guitars > strangely brittle. The vocals > were quite prominent and clear, and Robyn's off the > cuff monologs quite > comprehendable. My only disappointment was > Seligman's bass was practically > inaudible on Kingdom of Love, which cut off the > bouncyness of the song, and > that the band didn't play "I Got the Hots For You". > The inclusion of five new(?) songs was a major > suprise and I'm not sure if > they are indeed new compositions or numbers from > Robyn's solo work (but > they're not on Moss Elixir or Jewels for Sophia - > the only post Element of > Light CDs of his I own). All five are clearly in > Robyn's newer songwriting > style - straighter, certainly less quirky, though > the arrangements are still > open (or new) enought to allow a great > Televisionesque call and response > double guitar solo at the end of Maybe It'll Rain > (all new song titles are > what I guessed, Robyn didn't announce any of them > except to mention that > You're A Part of Rock and Roll will be "on the next > album" > I imagine that the band will only get tighter (there > were a couple of > noticible fluffs Thursday night, but it was only > their fourth gig in the tour) > and the new songs will grow into their own. Here's > to hoping that this is the > spark of some new Soft Boy life, and not just an > exercise in nostalgia. I for > one would greatly look forward to a new album. - > Steve. G Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 18:36:38 -0500 From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: [idealcopy] Pere Ubu list A quick note - I just started a Pere Ubu discussion list and invite everyone interested to subscribe! We might get David Thomas himself to join. The list is called "The Bailing Men" and can be located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheBailingMen/ To subscribe go to that URL and follow the instructions or simply send a blank email to TheBailingMen-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Thanks, Syarzhuk Be healthy, stay wealthy... Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://www.belmusic.net _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 17:31:21 -0600 From: george.m.hook@accenture.com Subject: [idealcopy] No Wave How about "No Wave"? I just purchased "No New York" over eBay for a ridiculously low price. Produced by Brian Eno, with a cover photo by Eno, it documents early New York No Wave artists like James White and the Contortions and Teenage Jesus and the Jerks. I'll bet each member of Wire has a copy (but it's rare, I think it's only available on Japanese import CD ... and original vinyl). This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged or confidential information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 17:35:10 -0600 From: JH3 Subject: [idealcopy] Pub-land trivia! Paul R. wrote a while ago: >and the record is...... "teenage head" by the snakes, featuring robert >gotobed on vocals. >so somebody tell me what the snakes sounded like? the record was >produced by nick garvey , he was in the motors i think. so i guess >we're talking pub rock?p Definitely a fair assumption. Garvey was actually the founder of the band - formed it, in fact, after he left Ducks Deluxe, yet another band that most Wire fans probably wouldn't be interested in! It's the first item on Gotobed's personal discography pages at sites such as "Wire Central" and Andrew Westmeyer's site: http://www.stereosociety.com/wirgot.html http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~qwerty/wire/albums/gotobed.html Apparently they also appeared on a compilation LP much later called "Light up the Dynamite" with (among others) the Count Bishops, the Flyin' Spiderz, Nick Lowe himself, and... Shakin' Stevens!!! But my question is this: Is "Teenage Head" a cover of the Flamin' Groovies tune? I'd assume so, but you can never be completely certain, can you? I might be interested to hear it, if it is. And if anybody has a copy of "Light up the Dynamite," it's probably worth roughly $20/#15 in near-mint condition. (On eBay, that is...) Paul, since you have the sleeve, does it say the song was written by Roy Loney? I'm just curious... though for the life of me I can't imagine why. And there are probably a whole bunch of pub-rock fans out there who just automatically assume that Robert Gotobed has always been Wire's lead singer, ever since Day One! John "off to the BAR" Hedges ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 22:12:04 -0600 (CST) From: voyteck@webtv.net Subject: [idealcopy] OT: New music from old Although you may think this the wrongful place for me to post these thoughts (perhaps diary of a madman), it is reading along with each of your posts as well as being a composite product of the environment in which I live which has inspired my reply yesterday to/of 'music ripoffs' and to continue / finish the trane of thought on this page. Any music or computer geniuses, or likewise visionaries out there, I'm throwing a ball into your court; run with it if you see fit / as you will. Here's my drivel: Before 'controlled' fire was discovered, people asked "what good is it? / it's dangerous". Probably much the same upon (primitive POV) viewing of the wheel, gunpowder, electricity, plastic, etc. With music through time, musical instruments have evolved from beating hollow logs, blowing through hollowed sticks & reeds, and however guitar/piano (strings) came to be all the way into today's electronica. Any music made throughout time that was any good / worth saving to repeat again had to be documented (& perhaps eyewitnessed). Wah-Lah! The birth of sheet music. Not knowing myself how to read sheet music or operate a computer (beyond this webtv terminal), analogies will do to convey thoughts. Say 10 different colors / colours (your choice), paints, lights, or whatever are available, the mathematical combination of variations available is 3,628,800! In music (input your / the correct input going along) say: A, B, C, D, E, F, & G are available. Within these 7 are 5040 variations, and from trying to make sense of an 'basic music' website visited before typing here, am I to understand there are 15 major and 15 minor key signatures (?), which would equal 7,957,58633!!??!! (note 33 power!) So, as music is digitized on CD (binary encoded?), at any given moment (stopped / frozen / paused), that frequency or wavelength of sound is present with whatever major / minor - sharp / flat or whatever inflected. Enter the computer, where a song may be downloaded from Napster into computer digitization. Again, download a 2nd song into digitization. Alter / remove any instrument / voice via it's digital signature if so desired and cross the 2 in / out of sync, randomly, backwards, etc. for a hybrid mutation offspring, song or passage. Mentioning 'signature', yours / everyones personal signature could be equated as a mathematical equation, if every line & loop in our letters were measured geometrically (arcs, angles, etc.). Maybe this will simply illustrate all this concept: Michael Jackson's 'Black or White' video (morphing) or Conan O'Brian's spoof of crossing celebrities / stars together to yield a comedic offspring (photo) are as exact analogies to videos as I am trying this convey this only to sound instead. Maybe a VCR that can record 100 different channels at once, yielding 600 hours on a single T-120 VHS tape, disk, or whatever would be easier to pursue ... perhaps it's time to simply 'enjoy the joyride' as it is and forget conglomerate 'Footsi-Footsi'. Still, to hear offspring mutation / hybrids / morphing of such as these artists would still be curious: Wire ~ Tones On Tail ~ Undertones ~ Snakefinger / Residents ~ Vibrators ~ Bunnydrums ~ Echo & the Bunnymen ~ Stranglers ~ 999 ~ Cramps ~ Sad Lovers and Giants ~ Comsat Angels ~ Chris Spedding ~ Toy Dolls ~ Mars ~ D.N.A. ~ Teenage Jesus & the Jerks ~ Contortions ~ Flamin' Groovies ~ Be Bop Deluxe ~ Adrian Belew ~ The Brains ~ Doctors of Madness ~ Revolting Cocks ~ Buzzcocks ~ New Order ~ The Headboys ~ Shriekback ~ MX-80 Sound ~ Suicide ~ Suicide Commandos ~ Tyla Gang / Ducks Deluxe ~ UK Subs ~ Scars ~ T Rex / Marc Bolan ~ X ~ Yello ~ Willie Alexander & the Boom Boom Band ~ Angst ~ APB ~ Cowboys International ~ Teenage Filmstars (not 'Teenage Fanclub') ~ Diodes ~ Illusion of Safety ~ Adverts ~ Man-Ka-Zam ~ Television Personalities ~ Hawkwind ~ Nina Hagen ~ Cabaret Voltaire ~ Flipper ~ Ultravox ~ Dead Kennedys ~ and perhaps as optional measure in balance, B-52's & Devo. Regards All, Take Care (remember He Said), DavO ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 10:19:11 +0100 From: Woerner Frank Subject: AW: [idealcopy] No Wave >-----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- >Von: george.m.hook@accenture.com [mailto:george.m.hook@accenture.com] >Gesendet: Freitag, 23. Mdrz 2001 00:31 >An: idealcopy@smoe.org >Betreff: [idealcopy] No Wave > > >How about "No Wave"? I just purchased "No New York" over eBay for a >ridiculously low price. Produced by Brian Eno, with a cover >photo by Eno, >it documents early New York No Wave artists like James White and the >Contortions and Teenage Jesus and the Jerks. I'll bet each >member of Wire >has a copy ... that's for sure ... and a pin-up of Lydia Breakfast ... or what her name was ... Frank from Bavaria ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #88 ******************************