From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #87 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, March 22 2001 Volume 04 : Number 087 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [idealcopy] re: ot vic reeves ["giluz" ] Re: [idealcopy] OT: Hacienda [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] (OT) tv eye [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] [idealcopy] OFF TOPIC - Boredom lyrics ["ian jackson" ] Re: [idealcopy] Wire = Euro VU ["Syarzhuk Kazachenka" ] [idealcopy] Re: OFF TOPIC - Crispy Ambulance [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy] OffTopic: new Fall comp ["giluz" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: P'o [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] [idealcopy] OFF TOPIC - you're going on after... ["ian jackson" ] [idealcopy] curiosity shop [WAndyComer@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Mr Suit / Wire + Shakin' ["Ian B" ] Re: [idealcopy] OFF TOPIC - Nice New Wave [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: AW: [idealcopy] (OT) tv eye [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy] Wire Mail Order March 2001 ["wiremailorder.com" ] [idealcopy] Ooer Missus! Vic Split Velvet Underpants [=?iso-8859-1?q?Grae] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 11:43:15 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] re: ot vic reeves > I don't know if national identities really work tho > they must do to a certain degree as I imagine surreal > humour has more secure historical context in Europe? > If you like Python then you'll like Vic to a degree? er... no! > > There is a parallel with Wire in all honesty. If you > liked Wire then you liked Wire regardless of national > boundary. I don't think it's true at all, hence the list being dominated by Brits and Yanks. I guess most of the Americans here have a certain degree of anglophillia (one of the worst mental illnesses of our times), besides the fact that they share approximately the same language. And of course, let's not forget that all list members are from the Western world, brought up on western ways of thought and western music. One of the main reasons why I like Wire is because of their Englishness, so I like them because of the national boundary and not regardless of it. > There are certain aspects of people's > psychological make up that transcend national > identity? Hahaha - let's draw the psychological profile of the average Wire fan then. Mind, though we all like Wire, versatillity and eccentricity in musical tastes is one of the reasons I like this list, but maybe, after all, we all share that love for Wire just because we were abused as children, born via a ceasarian operation, or just had too much sweets? giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 05:21:11 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Hacienda Highlights included Howard Devoto (nearest I got to seeing Magazine - the band included Formula and Robin Simon, and half the set was note-perfect Mag songs, so it was near enough, and better, I suspect, than the Magic, Murder..era Mag gigs). ///// did they do gigs for that album? i thought devoto just walked out as it was released? i have a tape of a devoto solo gig that's awful , full of horrible female backing singers and saxophones completely wrecking some great magazine tunes. Also there for the Fall gig at which Tempo House on Perverted by Language was recorded. Parts of that gig are on the PBL bis video and I can see myself in the crowd! ////// ha ha i've got that , i shall go try to spot you. what are you wearing? never seen a gig in m/cr ; not a place i really know too well. almost all of mine have been midlands/london. this movie sounds confusing ; can it really be based on deborah curtis's book? i thought the idea was to give a big overview of manchester from punk thru to acid ; that book isn't at all about that , its a very personal look at IC/JD and not much beyond that. wonder who'll play mozzer? p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 06:14:29 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] (OT) tv eye Now "nice new wave" is a much-overlooked movement. Better dig out the New Muzik album! Mark >> ///// every big label had to sign up a few duff "nice new wave" acts in 78/79. what a dismal list ; the flys the zones the jags the jolt neon hearts after the fire new hearts fischer z the pleasers rubinoos original mirrors .......quite turns your stomach thinking about that lot. all currently available in a bargain bin or your local charity shop for very little indeed.p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 11:30:08 -0000 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] OFF TOPIC - Boredom lyrics many thanks to everyone who has responded to this. i think we've just about got it sorted now, so consider subject closed. WIRE FANS - (saucy old) SALT(s) OF THE EARTH!!! THANKS A LOT ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 11:58:45 -0000 From: "ian jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] (OT) tv eye ...and what about Hot Chocolate's 'Heaven's In The Back Seat Of My Cadillac'? what a groove!!! (predictably, it reminded me of Cud's version of 'You Sexy Thing'.) and what about Rufus Thomas? tremendous, what a show!!!... respect, is indeed due...blimey. forget about Fischer Z though, they were crap. ian.s.j. >From: MarkBursa@aol.com >To: PaulRabjohn@aol.com, idealcopy@smoe.org >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] (OT) tv eye >Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 17:09:48 EST > >Paul, > ><< well i just saw something i'd certainly not have believed existed. on >totp2 > they showed can doing "i want more" from 76. great clip of them in the >totp > studio. it'll be repeated on sunday , the show also feature the highly > under-rated lyndsey de paul. so it's (gulp) respect to steve wright , now > that's a phrase you don't hear too often. wonder what next ; faust on > cheggers plays pop? neu! on get it together?<< > >Now I knew that had charted, but I never knew they invited them on TOTP! >I'll >be away over the weekend...better set the video! > > >>......must own up to also reading FZ as fischer z , god that's so >uncool. >the > only thing i remember by them was "the worker" and those classic lines > "bought a 69 capri/failed the MOT/what a waste of time". now that's a >crap > lyric if ever i heard one. they were a sort of "nice" new wave-y act , >like > after the fire etc. you suspect very big in the benelux area.p >> > >Remember them on TOTP as well. I'd better 'fess up at this point that I own >a >copy of the Worker, which was acvquired at some stage in the mid-80s from >a >secondhand shop in Preston as part of a job lot of enormously obscure indie >singles. Sort of jolly cod-reggae with added fairground organ and winsome >vocals. Very "nice" indeed. > >Now "nice new wave" is a much-overlooked movement. Better dig out the New >Muzik album! > >Mark _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 07:06:33 -0500 From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire = Euro VU >Reed - ego, words, voice, pop sensibility, mullet >Cale - ego, avant garde, noise >Morrison - unique guitar style >Tucker - metronome > >Newman - ego, pop sensibility, voice >Lewis - ego, words, mullet >Gilbert - unique guitar style, avant garde >Gotobed - metronome > >Nearly the same! I'd add "pop sensibility" and "avant garde" to Lewis and "noise" to Gilbert Syarzhuk Be healthy, stay wealthy... Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://www.belmusic.net _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:29:12 -0000 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] OFF TOPIC - Crispy Ambulance mark, being the proud owner of several C.A. platters, (yes, even the 1st single with the Graham Massey sleeve) i've been wanting to know for years whether the Peel session that included 'Drug User, Drug Pusher' (correct title?) has ever been released and was that their only session? i only have 2 tracks on tape from the original broadcast. Haven't yet purchased the reunion CD. one of the best nights of my life was at Pickwick's in Liverpool, a post-war (psykick?) dancehall with a classic Factory bill of New Order, Section 25 and the Crispies, with Luis Bunuel's 'Un Chien Andalou' playing constantly as a backdrop. an opening piece of performance art, which involved one of the Factory mob, (you wouldn't happen to know who this was, would you?) kicking his way out of a previously sealed (and soiled) coffin, i got there so early i witnessed the whole preparation period. it was a life-changing experience, just me (no other bastard would come with me that night) a snorkel parka and a half bottle of whisky.....ah, halcyon days ian.s.j _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:55:02 +0000 From: Howard Spencer Subject: [idealcopy] Re: P'o Are Hear'say the first band since P'o to make such creative use of the apostrophe? Speaking of P'o, I was listening to Blind Tim last night - has anyone else noticed the `drag my canal, you saucy old salt' element to *that* lyric?! Or is it just my filthy, one track, sniggering schoolboy mind? I like Morning Bell and I like the supposedly naff lyric about shit behind the teeth. `I should have known better' would prob be my nomination, musically and lyrically far too near to prog for my liking (over which I'll take the `synth pap' of Manscape/Letter any day). In the deluge of recent traffic, I missed the Wire/shakin' stevens connection. Can someone repeat it. slowly and clearly for the benefit of the hard of reading? No cows on the ice ('cos most of them are on fire). Howard ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 09:09:07 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Re: OFF TOPIC - Crispy Ambulance Ian, << being the proud owner of several C.A. platters, (yes, even the 1st single with the Graham Massey sleeve) << Rightfully so. A seriously underrated band. If they'd had a sensible name they might have made it a lot further out of the cult twilight world they inhabit..... >>i've been wanting to know for years whether the Peel session that included 'Drug User, Drug Pusher' (correct title?) has ever been released and was that their only session? i only have 2 tracks on tape from the original broadcast.<< You're in luck - it's just been released by LTM on a new compilation called Frozen Blood, which contains the BBC session, the Piccadilly Radion session (from the Mark Radcliffe Show in 1979...I have a tape of that with Radcliffe's introductions, in a laid-back Peel stylee!) and the Deaf single, plus more live left-overs. >> Haven't yet purchased the reunion CD.<< Still pissed off about missing that. Didn't know it was on :-( It's surprisingly good! >> one of the best nights of my life was at Pickwick's in Liverpool, a post-war (psykick?) dancehall << Ah, know it well. With the mock-tudor front. Went there a couple of times - Echo & the Bunnymen in 1980 (one of the first gigs with a drummer) - supported by the Frantic Elevators (erk - how did Mick Hucknall get in here!) ; Orange Juice, Pale Fountains and Wild Swans in '81 and I saw the Fall there once too. >>with a classic Factory bill of New Order, Section 25 and the Crispies, with Luis Bunuel's 'Un Chien Andalou' playing constantly as a backdrop. an opening piece of performance art, which involved one of the Factory mob, (you wouldn't happen to know who this was, would you?) kicking his way out of a previously sealed (and soiled) coffin, i got there so early i witnessed the whole preparation period. it was a life-changing experience, just me (no other bastard would come with me that night) a snorkel parka and a half bottle of whisky.....ah, halcyon days<< Missed that one unfortunately. I saw a lot of the early NO gigs but not the Pickwicks one, so I don't know who yer man was. Probably a roadie! Good bill....better supports than the bloody Stockholm Monsters! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:25:37 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: [idealcopy] OffTopic: new Fall comp Just bought the new Fall 90's compilation, a world bewitched, and it's certainly recommended to all fall fans on the list. It's a 2-CD's 140 min compilation, with lots of B sides, almost all of MES' obscure collaborations (MES with Edwin Collins?) of recent years, and lots of other non-rare but great tracks. Even if you do have most of those, it's nice to have them on one CD (well, two actually, but it's one jewel case). And at last, I've got the studio version of Blood Outta Stone on CD - one of my most wished for Fall items (others included earliest singles, and this was solved with the release of Psykick Dancehall, another excellent Fall compilation). Also bought the Faust box, but this has been already discussed here before. cheers, giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 09:42:48 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: P'o In the deluge of recent traffic, I missed the Wire/shakin' stevens connection. Can someone repeat it. slowly and clearly for the benefit of the hard of reading? ////// in rob gotobed's pre-wire band the snakes (where rob was the singer), their one single featured the piano player from shakin stevens and the sunsets. just think , in a parallel universe when shaky split from the sunsets it was actually the sunsets who made it big as shaky's cocaine habit dragged him into the gutter. of course , the sunsets needed a new singer but luckily the pianist remembered a cool , skinny guy he played with once........ p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 14:59:47 -0000 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] OFF TOPIC - you're going on after... mark wrote :- Orange Juice, Pale Fountains and Wild Swans in '81 and I saw the Fall there once too. yep, me too, both gigs, i actually played there once supporting the Soup Dragons during their Buzzcocks period! small world and all that. thanks for the Crispies info, i can actually hear the full Peel Session now after twenty odd years!! The guy in the coffin has appeared in several JD/NO/Factory documentaries, cropped ginger hair and 'arch(ed)' eyebrows, still can't put a name to the face though. anyone out there know now??? thanks again mark, ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:17:50 -0000 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] OFF TOPIC - Nice New Wave paul rabjohn wrote :- the flys the zones the jags the jolt neon hearts after the fire new hearts fischer z the pleasers rubinoos original mirrors .......quite turns your stomach thinking about that lot. all currently available in a bargain bin or your local charity shop for very little indeed.p absolutely no Liverpool bias here people (ahem), ...but the Original Mirrors should have been massive, the last good thing Ian Brodie did??? i bought all their Mercury releases at the time... had to flog them later on... but hey, what can a poor Big In Japan kid with too much money do?!?!? The Jolt were one of the worst bands i ever saw, supporting their obvious heroes The Jam at Manchester Apollo, complete arse-lickers if memory serves... ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:38:24 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Re: OFF TOPIC - you're going on after... Ah, I think that's JD/NO's roadie/sound man, Terry (can't remember his surname but it's in one of the books). Could be wrong though! Mark << The guy in the coffin has appeared in several JD/NO/Factory documentaries, cropped ginger hair and 'arch(ed)' eyebrows, still can't put a name to the face though. >> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:56:23 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OFF TOPIC - Nice New Wave absolutely no Liverpool bias here people (ahem), ...but the Original Mirrors should have been massive, the last good thing Ian Brodie did??? ///well he produced some good albums. i saw OM supporting the skids and they were pretty mediocre (or so i thought at the time). i downloaded the lightning seeds version of outdoor miner off napster ; better luck next time , ian. i bought all their Mercury releases at the time... had to flog them later on... but hey, what can a poor Big In Japan kid with too much money do?!?!? ///// i guess sell yer BIJ records ; you'd get much more for them. The Jolt were one of the worst bands i ever saw, supporting their obvious heroes The Jam at Manchester Apollo, complete arse-lickers if memory serves... ian.s.j. _ ////// sadly they got in just a little too early for the tragic 79 mod revival or they'd probably have been huge. thankfully i never bought any of their records , but i do have the albums by neon hearts and the zones that i picked up on the grounds they were cheap and then wondered why i'd bothered. p ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:08:50 -0600 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] Wire/VU: One Last Time (for me) >Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 16:53:57 +0000 (GMT) >From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= >Subject: [idealcopy] Something new > >Michael said > >>>>>Bruce Gilbert has said that the VU and the Beatles >are the only 2 bands to have created something >completely new--or something like that. > >Bruce was just being self effacing, I guess. Well, if you say so, I guess. >What was Manscape? What else sounds like that? >What sounds like Ab Ovo? >And find me one other recording remotely similar to >The Haring please! Revolution #9. But seriously ... as the archieve will show (as if anyone has time to go through them!) no one has to sell me on Manscape or, especially, solo Bruce. But the question was influence, and no, I don't think these things were as inflencial as Beatles or VU--even if they were as original. >Beatles & VU ripped stuff off, especially Beatles >early on! Way more than Wire!!!!!!! But, again, they were ripped off more often than Wire was. >How influential would VU have been without Cale's >concurrent involvement with Tony Conrad & Lamonte >Young in the Dream Syndicate? > >A little less, I think! Far less, I'll say. In the Velvet's box there is a cd of early VU demos. They sound more like Bob Dylan than the VU. Cale's importance can't be over-stated. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 11:48:01 -0500 From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] (OT) tv eye >but a thompson twins/wire link defeats me totally....p Simple! I couldn't think of a direct link, but it's easy if you allow two steps: 1) Wire -> Cure 1.1. They started at approximately the same time 1.2. They both are post-punk British bands with 4-letter name that ends with "re" 1.3. They played together on at least one occasion (a while ago someone posted a link to Robert Smith interview where he mentioned being blown away by Wire's attitude) 2) Cure -> Thompson Twins 2.1. Cure's drummer in the 80s - Boris Williams - was recruited from Thompson Twins! Syarzhuk Be healthy, stay wealthy... Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://www.belmusic.net _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 09:24:29 -0800 (PST) From: John Roberts Subject: RE: [idealcopy] re: ot vic reeves Giluz I did put in an escape clause: > > I don't know if national identities really work > tho > > they must do to a certain degree as I imagine > surreal > > humour has more secure historical context in > Europe? What I meant was an appreciation of the more aesthetically inclined aspects of punk (or whatever you want to call it - certainly not 'nice new wave' 8-)) over say its more politicised factions? I don't really know how well marketed or distributed internationally Wire were on EMI or Mute tbh. John Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:35:12 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OFF TOPIC - Nice New Wave Paul, I think the big difference between Nice New Wave and Mod was that most of the 79 mod bands were failed ex-punks while the NNW crew were mainly pub rockers who were too old/soft for punk but saw a career opportunity...at least the best of the 79 mod bands (Chords, Purple Hearts) had a bit of attitude and had learned some decent Who riffs... of course some of the 79 mods were we-NNW - eg Secret Affair (the New Hearts)... At least it was better than prog. Mark << ////// sadly they got in just a little too early for the tragic 79 mod revival or they'd probably have been huge. thankfully i never bought any of their records , but i do have the albums by neon hearts and the zones that i picked up on the grounds they were cheap and then wondered why i'd bothered. p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 09:51:15 -0800 (PST) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Ahead video Talking of vids...I don't suppose anyone knows the URL of the Wire US 2000 gig video do they? I've tried the ATP one from last year but that seems to have disappeared. John > Lock up your videos, > Paul Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 13:16:46 EST From: WAndyComer@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] curiosity shop for those of you in the new york city area: introducing curiosity shop with eva aridjis andy comer grand opening: tuesday, march 27, 10pm - "late" route 85a (85 avenue a, between 5th and 6th streets, below "kim's video") a certain ratio. bauhaus. big in japan. cure. daf. damned. depeche mode. devo. duran duran. essential logic. felt. flying lizards. gang of four. human league. jesus and mary chain. joy division. kleenex. nitzer ebb. gary numan. omd. pil. pop group. section 25. siouxsie and the banshees. sisters of mercy. smiths. suede. throbbing gristle. virgin prunes. visage. wire. xymox. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 19:26:54 -0000 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Mr Suit / Wire + Shakin' ----- Original Message ----- From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Ian B Worst Wire lyric - Mr Suit; seems like a bad stab at punk cred; I mean, 'Mr Suit' - come on! Paul Rabjohn ////////don't you think its a sort of parody? p Ian B No I always just though it was pretty cringeworthy. I won't recognise the irony card on this one. By the way I spotted another Wire / Shakin' Stevens link which draws in another thread from recent posts. Wire appear in a Vic Reeves song. Vic Reeves appears in a Shakin' Stevens video. And while we're on, add Shakin' to the P'o-Hear'Say axis. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:26:02 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OFF TOPIC - Nice New Wave In a message dated 22/03/01 17:35:12 GMT Standard Time, Mark Bursa writes: > I think the big difference between Nice New Wave and Mod was that most of > the 79 mod bands were failed ex-punks while the NNW crew were mainly pub > rockers who were too old/soft for punk but saw a career opportunity... //////i'd probably agree with that. the mark one pub rock acts generally had a few good tunes (dury , parker , lowe , costello) but the later batch were like punk-lite with few redeeming features. god i just remembered another one.....any trouble. pse note i have resisted the urge to re-slag the unholy trinity geldof/toyah/o'connor. at least the best of the 79 mod bands (Chords, Purple Hearts) had a bit of attitude > and had learned some decent Who riffs... of course some of the 79 mods were > we-NNW - eg Secret Affair (the New Hearts)... > ////// i have a big problem with those bands , at school all the plastic punks instantly jumped on the mod revival bandwagon and i still can't take it seriously to this day. i even sufferred the chords live once. between 'em i think they added up to a jam b-side. and i don't like the jam much....... > At least it was better than prog. > /////// still the yardsick by which old toss is to be measured.p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 13:32:29 -0600 From: JH3 Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] (OT) tv eye >>but a thompson twins/wire link defeats me totally....p >Simple! I couldn't think of a direct link... I guess one direct link would be that the Thompson Twins' Matthew Seligman played bass on Peter Murphy's "Love Hysteria," and Mike Thorne played keyboards on Murphy's "Holy Smokes." Of course, if you can link Wire to Matthew Seligman, you can link them in less than six steps to just about anybody, including Eddie Van Halen, Jerry "I'm Dead" Garcia, and TORI AMOS. Which in turn is why I tend to avoid the whole "Six Degrees" thing completely, except for just now of course... And as long as I'm at it: >>the flys the zones the jags the jolt neon hearts after the fire >>new hearts fischer z the pleasers rubinoos.... >>original mirrors >absolutely no Liverpool bias here people (ahem), ...but the Original >Mirrors should have been massive, the last good thing Ian Brodie >did??? i bought all their Mercury releases at the time... Me too! I loved their second album ("Heart Twango Raw Beat"), though the first one was somewhat less-than-stellar. Either way, they don't really deserve to be lumped in with that bunch - IMO they were vastly more talented and even capable of the occasional killer hook. But I can see why some of the more avant-garde types around here wouldn't necessarily like them. Call me sentimental. >had to flog them later on... You FLOGGED them? I hope that's just another one of those "colorful UK idioms." John "we call it chastisement where I come from" Hedges ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:03:01 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OFF TOPIC - Nice New Wave Paul, << but the later batch were like punk-lite with few redeeming features. god i just remembered another one.....any trouble. >> Yep. Manchester's answer to the Jags. >>pse note i have resisted the urge to re-slag the unholy trinity geldof/toyah/o'connor. << A different genre altogether....worthless crap new wave. >>////// i have a big problem with those bands , at school all the plastic punks instantly jumped on the mod revival bandwagon and i still can't take it seriously to this day. i even sufferred the chords live once. between 'em i think they added up to a jam b-side. and i don't like the jam much.......<< Blackpool was something of a Mod mecca in 1979, so we got most of the nu-Mod bands on tour (at the Norbreck Castle Nite Spot...). Some of them were truly dire (eg the Merton Parkas, or the imaginatively named The Mods). Some were cleraly Very Old Men jumping on the bandwagon (the Crooks, anyone?!) But others did have some spark to them. Purple Hearts were pretty good (punk band in suits, basically). Support was the Nips if I recall....never saw the Chords. Guess I would have enjoyed it more than you did :-) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:15:05 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] (OT) tv eye John, << the OriginalMirrors should have been massive, the last good thing Ian Brodie did??? i bought all their Mercury releases at the time... Me too! I loved their second album ("Heart Twango Raw Beat"), though the first one was somewhat less-than-stellar. << I remember John Peel playing that album a lot, but I have no recollection of what it sounded like. So I guess I wasn't impressed. >>Either way, they don't really deserve to be lumped in with that bunch - IMO they were vastly more talented and even capable of the occasional killer hook. But I can see why some of the more avant-garde types around here wouldn't necessarily like them. Call me sentimental.<< There's no escape. They were definitely Nice New Wave ;-) >>had to flog them later on... You FLOGGED them? I hope that's just another one of those "colorful UK idioms." >> I often take records I don't like and 'whup their sorry asses' (there, the Yanks should understand that..) with a big stick. But Ian meant he sold them, in an idiomatic way! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 09:26:35 -0600 From: "wiremailorder.com" Subject: [idealcopy] Wire Mail Order March 2001 intro hello and welcome to a new year and another fairly thin newsletter. some reports from across the border of wire's end of term gig in edinburgh and news of some new releases from the extended wire clan plus news of the final release from wmo. website the new improved www.wiremailorder.com is up and at' em. please visit the site to order IBM and Ocsid (limited quantities) and the reissue of Hox. There are specials for WMO and Thousand items as well. wire reports from the wire gig in edinburgh on 8th december proved that the groups power to reinvent and surprise are still intact. first up from paul rabjohn: "the venue was superb, a circular church-type building with pews and a balcony. support band looked a bit uninspiring (altered images meets prag vec was my initial thoiught). wire strated up with the long slow throb of 'zoom', building into a relaxed 'heartbeat'. then cranking up the tempo for a brilliant 'ally in exile' and the punky 'germ ship'. no more new ones but 'he knows' stays there for now. then it was hit by hit as they raced to the finiosh line with 'advantage in height', 'lowdown', 'another the letter', '12xu' and a blistering 'pink flag'. a quick fag and then back to gibve 'drill' a mainly instrumental kicking. excellent performance under stark white light, an xmas party to be proud of." mark bursa, also there, added this: "a truly ferocious performance,as good as they've been this year, and delivered in a venue curiously reminiscent of oxford's museum of modern art. it was great to see ne material - only the truly talismanic old songs remain in the set - 'another the letter', 'advanatge in height', 'drill' and 'pink flag' is delieverd with venom. gone is 'mercy', also 'silk skin paws' from the garage set. the new material will hopefully swell the set list next year - the droning, e-bowed intro classes as a song,a ccording to the setlist, while the other all-new song would not have been out of place on 'pink flag', gig highlight for me was the revived 'ally in exile' - now a mutant hybrid of the 'document and eyewitness song' and its close relation 'art of persistence'. more streamlined than the original ,and bruce is mighty throughout, 'he knows' is now honed to perfection." finally, graeme rowland, offered up his thoughts. (an extended version of this can be found on the 'cracked machine' website): "the set opened with a drone instrumental which was perhaps closer to ocsid territory thasn anuthing wire have done before. the title was 'zoom' and only colin played guitar, droning with e-bow. bruce and robert set up a minimal synth beat and gadget atmospherics, and graham's synth was the only bass. graham walked on stage halfway througf the track, to applause. the other new one was a very short rocker called 'germ ship'. both colin and graham sand on this. it seemed to be made up of three sections, an opening vaguely reminiscent of 'the commercial', but way more venomous, the central singing part and then the closing with the opening instrumental cycle. 'ally in exile' was also played, and bruce's shifting block guitar sound really bit on thast one. the rest of the set consisted of the rearranged 'heartbeat', 'boiling boy', 'he know', 'lowdown', 'advantage in height', 'another the letter', 12xu', 'pink flag' and the encore 'drill'. bruce almost broke into a jig during 'pink flag'! robert looks more and more like a bird of prey with each passing gig," on 10-11 february colin was interviewed by claire kember on www.totallyradio.com about all things wire and swim~, and provided a choice of music that included some unreleased wire, newman and some of his personal faves by others. graham the new ocsid cd 'opening sweep', released by ash international. is now in stock. this cd is a live recording of their performance in munich in 1999. it is available from wmo in uk and usa as well as the usual outlets. also hox 'it-ness' has been reissued by the r&s/apollo label in belgium. copies, again, in stock by both wmo's. but quantities are limited so order soon! bruce the viennese mego label finally release the long-awaited ibm lp/7" 'the oval sessions' in january. ibm are ilpo vaisainen, bruce gilbert and mika vainio. i.e. pan sonic and bruce. a limited edition of 1000 has been pressed. it is available direct from wmo(us) in limited quantities so order soon! swim~ the first release of 2001 came at the end of february with silo's second cd; 'alloy'. described in the press release as "real headnod shit". future releases promised are new album from colin newman wmo a special offer for anyone who still hasn't got 'whore', 'turns and strokes', 'dugga or perhaps wants them for a friend'. contact wmo(uk) for europe or wmo(us) for north american details. the final final release from wmo is due in may. we are proud to release the late michael o'shea cd. and with the discovery of extra material (not gilbert / lewis produced, but still as evocative and excellent), the cd now runs at nearly 60 minutes. there are two bonus tracks with fellow irish musician stano, two backing tracks for the same songs, plus a track michael recorded in collaboration with poet/artist larry cosgrave. released with the full and co-operative help of michael's family we believe that this cd represents the complete recordings of this wonderful and lamented talent. wmo feel it a fitting end to the label. the only outstanding release wmo intends to put out will be a mail-order, subscription copy of ' the haring 2' by bruce gilbert. watch this space. those who you have visited our website will have seen that at the end of this year wmo(us) who controls this site will cease to be. order now to avoid dissapointment! outro this newsletter * 2001 wmo limited, except from other publications or stated authors which remain the copyright of the original copyright holders. all reviews are the opinion of the stated writers. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:01:27 -0500 From: "Stephen Graziano" Subject: [idealcopy] Soft Boys Soft Boys 9:30 Club Washington DC 3/21/01 You'll Have to Go Sideways Kingdom of Love He's A Reptile I'm An Old Pervert Unknown #1 (You're Part of Rock and Roll) Underwater Moonlight Queen of Eyes I Wanna Destroy You Unknown #2 (Evil Guy) Leppo and the Jooves Unknown #3 (Horn of Florida) Insanely Jealous Only the Stones Remain Encore Human Music Rock and Roll Toilet Bells of Rhymey Unknown #4 (Maybe It'll Rain) Encore 2 Give It to the Soft Boys (performed by YFF w/ Morris on drums) Unknown #5 (City of Shame) Where Are the Prawns Thursday's performance of the Soft Boys at DC's 9:30 club turned out to be a magical night of triumph for the band. Support was provided by the Young Fresh Fellows (who I only knew through a 1992ish Frontier release called "It's Lo Beat Time" which didn't too greatly impress me. They actually had a very punchy sound - both guitarits playing through Fender Twin Reverbs - that provided a nice cross between 60's garage pysche and late 70's power pop. At times they reminded be of both the great late Slickee Boys and Sweden's Nomads. Maybe there was a touch too much comedic schtick in the act but they genuinely seemed to be having a great time performing, as if in on a great party and really thrilled to be opening for the Soft Boys. I particularly enjoyed their cover of the Kinks "Picture Book". The Soft Boys opened with the instrumental - as if still unsure of themselves and the hall acoustics using a time honored technique of allowing the sound man a full song to set levels before worrying about getting the vocals across. The mix never quite settled in (though the YFF had great sound) with Morris's drums undermixed throughout, and the guitars strangely brittle. The vocals were quite prominent and clear, and Robyn's off the cuff monologs quite comprehendable. My only disappointment was Seligman's bass was practically inaudible on Kingdom of Love, which cut off the bouncyness of the song, and that the band didn't play "I Got the Hots For You". The inclusion of five new(?) songs was a major suprise and I'm not sure if they are indeed new compositions or numbers from Robyn's solo work (but they're not on Moss Elixir or Jewels for Sophia - the only post Element of Light CDs of his I own). All five are clearly in Robyn's newer songwriting style - straighter, certainly less quirky, though the arrangements are still open (or new) enought to allow a great Televisionesque call and response double guitar solo at the end of Maybe It'll Rain (all new song titles are what I guessed, Robyn didn't announce any of them except to mention that You're A Part of Rock and Roll will be "on the next album" I imagine that the band will only get tighter (there were a couple of noticible fluffs Thursday night, but it was only their fourth gig in the tour) and the new songs will grow into their own. Here's to hoping that this is the spark of some new Soft Boy life, and not just an exercise in nostalgia. I for one would greatly look forward to a new album. - Steve. G ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 22:22:07 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Ooer Missus! Vic Split Velvet Underpants It continues... The drone film of the century 'Speedy NYC 36 Hour Past its Sell By Factory' in which Wire give up a worthwhile vocation of 'pushing on' in order to glance back at their American counterpains and pay it all back in homage (Mr Reeds nose bill needs a paying). George Gill cannot be Nico, but Angus Maclise, surely? Or should Desmond Simmons get that part? Makes more sense to give it to Desmond perhaps. Paul Kendall is Doug Yule which implies that not only is John Cale Gilbert & Lewis, but Gotobed too! And by the looks of him these days perhaps he could do with the sleep! Actually, I think it makes more sense (or less) to put Gilbert in Morrison's shoes and Lewis in Cale's. It'll save their footwear bill! Michael Clarke is Gerard Malanga Kevin Eden is Victor Bockris In Esse is Metal Machine Music One of Our Girls is The Marble Index Lorries is Walk on the Wildside Rosh Ballata is The Marble Index Kluba Cupol is Church of Anthrax Boiling Boy is Ferryboat Bill and Fear is a man's best friend! and thats the short and long of it I can't stand it anymore because I'm made out of glue! A Vaguely serious aside: Wire are much more permeable, malleable and adaptable than VU. Their name is appropriate. After White Light/White Heat everything by Reed & Cale was a retreat except perhaps The Murder Mystery and Metal Machine Music (the only consistent Reed album besides New York, OK so there are a few I haven't heard but most of his solo records have only 2 worthwhile songs). And Sterling Morrison never seems to get the recognition he deserves for his contribution to VU - Reed without Morrison was a bit of a lame duck. Antony H Wilson as 'Man who invented Sister Ray' ?Who let him in? ?Who put him on guestlist? goes up the cry Always sticking his bloody nose in, but for the Smiths he was not to blame so maybe he can have the bit part of 'Mr Suit'! So does the Dome appearance at Fac 51 make an entre in the open all hours shut the city down its party time ten years ago them woz the good ol' days didn't we do some luvverly E's film? Does Boyd Rice bollocksing it up at Disobey get a look in? This woz Madchester, man But now we're all on prozac, Married 2.3 kids, In turgid theme pub lager swill limbo Please stop shoving these paper thin slices of celluloid misery down my throat! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine webzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #87 ******************************