From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #86 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, March 22 2001 Volume 04 : Number 086 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Fwd: RE: [idealcopy] I love you because you look like Vic Reeves [voyteck] Re: [idealcopy] OT: Hacienda [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Wire = Euro VU [Tim Robinson ] Re: [idealcopy] Wire = Euro VU [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] re: ot vic reeves [John Roberts ] AW: [idealcopy] (OT) tv eye [Woerner Frank ] Re: AW: [idealcopy] (OT) tv eye [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:41:12 -0600 (CST) From: voyteck@webtv.net Subject: Fwd: RE: [idealcopy] I love you because you look like Vic Reeves It's odd reading the IC and outside thoughts / ideas come to mind. And whatever / where ever other ideas come from, giluz & Graeme are with near parallel thoughts in the air with the following: For the last couple of days, memories of high school drafting class have been in mind, remembering being in a time crunch whereas I had to complete a mechanical drawing in little time. 'A' student classmate who had this same class & teacher the year before, gave me all his saved drawings and showed me how to "pinpoint" (connect the dots), thusly saving much time with homework assignments. Enough confession! Now with the mentioning of music rip-offs, VU, or whatever on the list in the past few days, crossing these thoughts with the pinpointing fire up a brainwave (giluz mention's of 'patterns' has me out of the shadows). With mathematical averaging (mean, median, & mode), and music recorded digitally (0's & 1's), would it be possible to take, say 2 most popular songs and 'average' them into a 3rd mutation mathematically? (Grammy-tically? LOL! ... all the way to the awards / bank?!) Or take each years number one songs of the last 50 years, average all 50 into a single mutation? As long as VU is spotlighted lately, what would 'Heroin' digitally crossed averaged with "The Archies" - "Sugar Sugar" sound like? Not being computer literate, I don't know how to do this, but I'm sure it can be done on something more advanced than the WebTV terminal I'm typing this on. Zero's and one's on a disk spinning the distance of a song's time crossed averaged (mean, median, or mode) with another (x many) song's to mathematically average the sound of the input songs. This is not simply overlaying songs on top of one another; this is genetic offspring mutations! Hybrid music! (the acorn doesn't fall far from the tree scenario ... to create a new forest of sound!). Think of the result of inputing Mr Suit with 'Spirit's' Mr Skin!?!? Or Drill with 'The Thong Song' and Left Said Fred's 'I'm too Sexy'?!?! (apologizes to those offended with this type of 'bastard'!) Plagiarizing in Divine Madness, Regards, DavO Received: from smtpin-101-6.bryant.webtv.net (209.240.198.40) by storefull-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net with WTV-SMTP; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:35:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by smtpin-101-6.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix+brightmail) id 937EF19E; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:35:46 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: voyteck@webtv.net Received: from smoe.org (jane.smoe.org [216.200.102.14]) by smtpin-101-6.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix+brightmail) with ESMTP id 96280110; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:35:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/listq-jane) with SMTP id MAA02565; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:28:08 -0500 (EST) Received: by smoe.org (bulk_mailer v1.10); Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:28:03 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/listq-jane) id MAA02493 for idealcopy-outgoing; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:27:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from nettalk1.netalk-inc.com (nettalk1.nettalk-inc.com [216.33.197.54] (may be forged)) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/daemon-mode-jane) with ESMTP id MAA02486 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:26:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from Gil (212.150.220.3) by nettalk1.netalk-inc.com (Worldmail 1.3.167); 21 Mar 2001 12:13:14 +0000 From: "giluz" To: "IdealCopy" , "Graeme Rowland" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] I love you because you look like Vic Reeves Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 19:28:41 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <20010321163011.79096.qmail@web10502.mail.yahoo.com> Sender: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org Precedence: bulk > >>>>Wire and the Fall can also be fully understood > only by British people > > Wire perhaps? > But it would probably take a lifetime and a few > breakdowns to ever fully get the Fall no matter what > country you came from. Mark Smith lives out/in his own > universe. This is not to slight Wire's originality, > it's just that they're crazier aspects have always > been very much kept in check, cardboard tube hats, bread Oh, you Brits don't understand how completely obscure you may seem to someone from the outside. I think even now, the few people in Israel that ever heard of the Fall seem to think of them as dark serious avant-garde, so serious that their music is virtually humourless. Same thing could be said about Wire's irony, which is way too subtle for our thick mid-eastern heads. > Beatles & VU ripped stuff off, especially Beatles > early on! Way more than Wire!!!!!!! > > All Beatles best ideas came from musique concrete. > > How influential would VU have been without Cale's > concurrent involvement with Tony Conrad & Lamonte > Young in the Dream Syndicate? The whole history of rock is about ripping off other people's stuff: Rockabilly was about white kids trying to imitate black music. Early 60's British pop invention was about young Brits trying to imitate rockabilly and R&B, and so on and on. Even Can admitted to using rock cliches (though in a completely original way). One of the greatest things about the Beatles was the unshameful way they utilised their musical influences and mixed them together. VU would not have been influential without Cale's avant-garde ventures, but do you actually prefer the Dream Syndicate to the VU? All of the history of art is about the way you use the currently conventional patterns, just like Wire did on Pink Flag, using punk patterns to make something which was more than punk. cheers, giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 19:45:29 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Hacienda Hi Laurel, (where'd you get to!) Now I reckon the last time I visited the Hacienda was probably about 1984...that was when I moved to London and I don't think I've been to a gig in Manchester since.... I was a Hacienda member right from the start. You had to join to buy tickets back then (it wasn't expensive - #5 I think, and you got more than a year's worth. I still have the membership card - it expired in July 1984!) I must have seen 8 or 10 gigs there - it was principally a live venue when it started - the dance club thing didn't really happen till later. Highlights included Howard Devoto (nearest I got to seeing Magazine - the band included Formula and Robin Simon, and half the set was note-perfect Mag songs, so it was near enough, and better, I suspect, than the Magic, Murder..era Mag gigs). Also there for the Fall gig at which Tempo House on Perverted by Language was recorded. Parts of that gig are on the PBL bis video and I can see myself in the crowd! Also New Order, the first time they ever played Blue Monday live. I remember the entrrance had aluminium flooring, and opened pretty much into the main room, with the stage to the right and stairs up to the balcony on the left. There were two bars - one upstairs that wasn't always open. The balcony gave really good views - it was quite near the stage as the stage was along the opposite wall (on-topic note - Dome played on the balcony!). Watched Devoto from the balcony. It wasn't a particularly cosy venue - especially when a gig was poorly sold - and the sound wasn't ideal - very booming. While the design was very modern for its time, it lacked the "clubbiness" of Rafters (which it effectively replaced), which is one of my all-time favourite venues... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 01:35:27 +0000 From: Tim Robinson Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire = Euro VU Better still, these could also be alternative lyrics for Kidney Bingoes.... MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: Reed - ego, words, voice, pop sensibility, mullet Cale - ego, avant garde, noise Morrison - unique guitar style Tucker - metronome Newman - ego, pop sensibility, voice Lewis - ego, words, mullet Gilbert - unique guitar style, avant garde Gotobed - metronome Nearly the same! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 21:04:59 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire = Euro VU Tim, Love it! Probably the best lyrics I've ever written! Mark :-) << Better still, these could also be alternative lyrics for Kidney Bingoes.... MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: Reed - ego, words, voice, pop sensibility, mullet Cale - ego, avant garde, noise Morrison - unique guitar style Tucker - metronome Newman - ego, pop sensibility, voice Lewis - ego, words, mullet Gilbert - unique guitar style, avant garde Gotobed - metronome Nearly the same! Mark >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:22:06 -0800 (PST) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: [idealcopy] re: ot vic reeves I just remember Vic & Bob falling flat on their arses at the Mont'x comedy fest. It was when they were at the peak of their powers with NME, Jonathon Ross etc. coverage. I always found them funny when they did Big Night Out. Then they seemed to stop being funny and repetitive. Shooting Stars gave them a new shot of life. I don't know if national identities really work tho they must do to a certain degree as I imagine surreal humour has more secure historical context in Europe? If you like Python then you'll like Vic to a degree? There is a parallel with Wire in all honesty. If you liked Wire then you liked Wire regardless of national boundary. There are certain aspects of people's psychological make up that transcend national identity? John - --- dMc wrote: > chiming in only because i initiated this unfortunate > thread > personally , i got quite a kick out of 'i remember > punk rock' and little > else there > the dexter gordonesquesaxsolo actually stands quite > well on it's own as does > bj cole's pedal steel > (anyone heard his 'claire de lune' ?) > that said - as a yank, i always thought british > humour was a contradiction > of terms > > > ...the python's humour also contained lots of > > culture-specific references, which didn't disturb > them to go big in > America. Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:54:52 -0800 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: [idealcopy] Ahead video Hi everyone, Say - I was poking around on launch.com. (I ended up becoming a member when musicvideo.com folded.) Anyway, as I was looking thru the usual cra...er...stuff (^_^), I decided to try my luck at Wire. I wasn't expecting to find anything but... http://www.launch.com/musicvideos/view/not_start/1,1218,166109~570,00.ht ml (You might have to cut and paste this carefully) Supposedly, Launch.com only gives you one viewing before you have to become a member. However, it would seem to me that if you knew which cookie was being requested, you manually delete it, and keep watching indefinitely. Anyway - I was very surprised to see that it was Copyright (c) 2000 Mute records. Really? Mute submitted this video recently? What's up with that? Lock up your videos, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:05:51 +0100 From: Woerner Frank Subject: AW: [idealcopy] (OT) tv eye As you all only seem to remember "the worker" might I give you a hint: Pretty Paracetamol ... the singer/guitarist was working in a hospital before his musical carreer. But talking about FZ on a Wire list seems strange to me ... ;-)) How about the Thompson Twins, Yazoo or Bronski Beat? regards FfB ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 04:26:21 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] (OT) tv eye But talking about FZ on a Wire list seems strange to me ... ;-)) How about the Thompson Twins, Yazoo or Bronski Beat? ////////well wire worked with vince clarke of yazoo on dome 4 and "figures in crumbs". and mike thorne produced the early bronski beat hits plus all the wire emi stuff. but a thompson twins/wire link defeats me totally....p ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #86 ******************************