From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #84 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, March 21 2001 Volume 04 : Number 084 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] RE: reaaalllyyy OT (but with Wire/Vic Reeves Parallel) ["gilu] Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V4 #81 [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] manicured noise [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy] Take Care [Mark McQuitty ] [idealcopy] ebay news [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Take Care ["Stephen Jackson" ] Re: [idealcopy] OFF TOPIC - Help needed with lyrics ["Stephen JC Sheen" <] Re: [idealcopy] Take Care [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V4 #81 [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OFF TOPIC - Help needed with lyrics [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Take Care/There Are/Worst Lyric ["Ian B" ] Re: [idealcopy] Take Care ["BotServerCentral-Sector:Mail a/k/a 2 Fs" ] RE: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V4 #81 [Tim Robinson ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:31:56 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: [idealcopy] RE: reaaalllyyy OT (but with Wire/Vic Reeves Parallel) Tim Robinson Wrote (about Vic Reeves) His style of humour doesn't seem to 'travel' beyond these shores whichalways puzzles me because I always thought it was very Python-esque. Giluz Wrote: But the Pythons were funny, while Reeves is just vulgar and silly. As to hismusical attempts, theye were even worse.giluz Oh thats interesting actually. I'm really intrigued by the way Humour doesn't travel as well as music. Certainly Vic Reeves musical efforts are, quite rightly, long long forgotten, although you may well hear his version of Dizzy (featuring the Wonderstuff) at Student discos in Preston, Lancashire to this day....but lets forget the musical aspect. The Pythons and Neil Innes are among the few people who made good comedy records...Vic Reeves ain't. However, You say Reeves is Silly and Vulgar....come on Python were silly as hell! Silly is funny! =========================== I didn't mean to say that the pythons weren't silly and vulgar - they certainly had an amazing talent for bad taste (something they're very much proud of, I'm sure). What I meant was that they were also funny, despite, and in their case also, because, of those other things, whilst Reeves, though silly and vulgar, lacked that quite significant talent that makes a comedian - being funny. It's not enough just being silly and vulgar. I'm sure that there are some culture-specific references which I've missed with Reeves, me not being English, but the python's humour also contained lots of culture-specific references, which didn't disturb them to go big in America. Wire and the Fall can also be fully understood only by British people, but still have enough other ingredients that can appeal to us non-Brits. >OK some of Vics later stuff fell back on lazy fart-gags and sexual innuedo (maybe thats all you've seen?)....same as Wire >fell into worthless synth-pap around the time of Manscape. Our heroes let us down sometimes. He came back with 'Bang Bang >Its Reeves & Mortimer' which was his 'The First Letter'.....he has yet to do his 21st Century comeback thing like Wire >though. And that's one of the main differences - Pythons only got better over the years, releasing masterpieces such as Holy Grail and Meaning of Life. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 07:47:16 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V4 #81 Michael, << I simply don't believe for a second that Wire's influence is as far reaching as VU's. Please notice that I did NOT just say that no one has been influenced by Wire, only that Wire have not changed things as directly or as radically as the Velvet Underground did. >> It's hard to think of any cult '70s band that has had the same influence as the VU - so much was pioneered in the '60s. Kraftwerk probably fits the bill best, though unlike VU or Wire Kraftwerk did achieve considerable mainstream success. However, Wire's influence is far greater than the obvious copyists (Elastica etc), hence the comparison, which I believe is valid. But sure, it's not as radical an effect... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 07:53:20 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] manicured noise Paul, << what i bought was a 7" single moscow 80 / metronome. er , is this typical of them? its a pretty limp white funk workout complete with parping saxes ; i really can't imagine bruce and graham being fans. were there some other , earlier releases? what were they supporting wire? just curious,p >> You're dealing with a band whose entire recorded oeuvre stretches to two singles. No peel sessions, no compilation tracks. And one of the singles (as you've found out) is an instrumental. So it's not really representative. Moscow 80 was written as an alternative theme song for the Olympics - Orange Juice had the same idea BTW, and the same title. The other MN single (Faith/Freetime) is definitive. Think a raw, early Talking Heads playing Northern Soul, with sax (popular with new wave turns in them days!). A great single, and it was a shame they never made an album. Did you get the free postcard in Moscow 80? Probably the only known picture of the band! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:16:54 -0000 From: Mark McQuitty Subject: [idealcopy] Take Care I'd just like to add my voice to the defense of He Said : Take Care. I still enjoy the occasional listen and I'd agree with Craig that the first four tracks are top electro/pop. They feature one of my favourite Wire-things, Lewis crooning. As much as I like his new stuff, Hox, etc. I'm not as much into his 'almost-spoken' deliveries compared to his full-on singing style. One of the dissapointing things for me about current Wire is the lack of exposure for Grahams voice. Step up to the mike Graham! Some top Lewis crooning that comes to mind... The background harmonies at the end of Kidney Bingoes - totally perfect. Rolling upon my day - Dome 1 All his vocals on Dome 2 - my fave Wire-related album Pale Feet - He Said : Hail Blessed State - 154 Finest Drops - ABIAC Any others?... Cheers, Mark. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:34:02 -0000 From: "ian jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Best of the Worst (Stop!) graeme wrote:- >So what is the worst Wire/Wir lyric? 'I'm looking at life I'm looking at rhythm Got two left feet Can't do nothing with them' sorry, i'm a simple old soul, but i really like that lyric!!! ian.s.j.(retaining a sense of humour!) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:14:46 -0000 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] OFF TOPIC - Vic Reeves one thing nobody's saying is that Vic & Bob's humour is very working-class (note the last two words are not in inverted commas). you either get it or you don't, but Python stuff travelled better because they were public schoolboys (easier 'higher educational/ classical' reference points). (reaches for asbestos coat). Vic & Bob's musical attempts were strictly punk rock, disposable and not to be taken seriously, anyone who bought it really did have more money than sense. but it dun't really matter does it? no, it dun't matter...... ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:29:03 -0000 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] OFF TOPIC - Help needed with lyrics dear people, general shout out to anyone who can help with this... after extensive search of websites, etc., i still can't get a few lines of the Buzzcocks 'Boredom', in particular :- i. 4th line, 3rd verse (the bit after 'because my future ain't was it was...') ii. 1st line, 4th verse (verse after two-note guitar solo, 2nd line '...or so it seems to me) a friend is doing a cover version, and after having played it dozens of times, i still can't make them out, maybe someone has an old Buzzcocks 'songbook' somewhere????? any help will obviously be greatly appreciated thanks and b'dum, b'dum, ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:45:49 -0600 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] VU, Beatles, Gilbert been influenced by Wire, only that Wire have not changed things >> as directly >> or as radically as the Velvet Underground did. > >Quite right, but also quite expected. VU were to art-rock / alternative / >punk / post-punk / new wave, or whatever other definition you'd apply, what >the Beatles were to pop. You can't expect any band showing up later that'd >have the same influence. >giluz Oh, I agree. Actually, that's pretty much what I meant to say. On your last point, Bruce Gilbert has said that the VU and the Beatles are the only 2 bands to have created something completely new--or something like that. While this doesn't mean everyone has to like them the best (Bruce doesn't like the Beatles--I do, but not nearly as much as the VU--or a number of other bands), there is some truth in there. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:06:12 -0000 From: "Stephen JC Sheen" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OFF TOPIC - Help needed with lyrics The words are a bit clearer on the Magazine BBC session version ... "... well I think I know the words that I mean" "I've taken this extravagant journey ..." In relation to which ... this month's Total Guitar features a nice bit of TAB for Joy Division's "Shadowplay" (together with "Foot Tapper" by the Shadows). But also an extended feature on the 300 Greatest Guitarists Ever. No sign of BC Gilbert anywhere, but creeping in at no 10 in the Punk category is the mighty Magazine axeman Howard Devoto. An inspiration to us all. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:48:47 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OFF TOPIC - Help needed with lyrics > But also an extended feature on the 300 Greatest > Guitarists Ever. > No sign of BC Gilbert anywhere, but creeping in at no 10 in the Punk > category is the mighty Magazine axeman Howard Devoto. An > inspiration to us > all. Devoto playing guitar??? giluz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:48:33 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] manicured noise A great single, and it was a shame they never made an album. Did you get the free postcard in Moscow 80? Probably the only known picture of the band! Mark >> ////// yes , i got it postcard & all , pretty impressive it was still there after all that time. i take it they all came with that sort of embossed/no paint label , so the sleeve basically looks pure black. maybe i'll get that other single ; i looked on gemm and they only go for about $6.p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:53:03 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OFF TOPIC - Help needed with lyrics But also an extended feature on the 300 Greatest Guitarists Ever. No sign of BC Gilbert anywhere, but creeping in at no 10 in the Punk category is the mighty Magazine axeman Howard Devoto. An inspiration to us all. ///////////but as a vocalist not a guitarist shurely? in their rockpalast he just plays guitar on the first track (feed the enemy). and i can't ever recall another picture of him with a guitar. who's #1 on this list ; john bonham? keith emerson? p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:03:08 +0000 From: Howard Spencer Subject: [idealcopy] Re:worst lyrics, never! 'I'm looking at life I'm looking at rhythm Got two left feet Can't do nothing with them I've always been quite fond of these! Fall in Oxford sounds like a good plan. Anyone else interested. Howard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:20:23 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] ebay news case yr interested , 3 things that went on ebay in the last couple of days; 154 5-track promo 12" $27.50 cupol 12" $26.50 3R4 12" $52 .......i got one of these , tried for another and (thankfully) already had the third. i think 2 of the above are more than a little overpriced.p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:20:54 -0000 From: "Stephen Jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Take Care >Any others?... The fantastic enunciation on "I Should have Known Better"....especially the way he says "I haven't found a measure yet to...." (Despite its grammatical errors ;-) ) Oh, and his singing on "And then.." Steve. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ They use the head and not the fist. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:06:08 -0000 From: "Stephen JC Sheen" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OFF TOPIC - Help needed with lyrics Um, yes. Axe ace Howie even gets the vote ahead of Pete Shelley - "for his involvement in Spiral Scratch (check out Boredom) and his later work in Magazine, Howard just edges it". Obviously hiding the light that pours out of him behind a bushel. John McGeoch does get a No 5 ranking for Siouxsie and the Banshees in the Goth section as compensation. No place for Diggle. ///////////but as a vocalist not a guitarist shurely? in their rockpalast he just plays guitar on the first track (feed the enemy). and i can't ever recall another picture of him with a guitar. who's #1 on this list ; john bonham? keith emerson? p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:09:23 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Take Care << >Any others?... >> Live versions of 'I feel mysterious today' with Lewis' interjections..."quite!", "watch out!", "grow, grow, grow..." (best version is from the Montreux gig, also on the 'Take a terrfying trip to the past' 7in bootleg) The manic vocal performance on D&E, particularlt the backing vocals on 'underwater experiences' and of course 'Eels Sang Lino' Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:13:49 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V4 #81 Michael, << OK, I can see this too. Again, I'm not doubting Wire's influence, just whether or not the British Velvets title is fair. I still don't think so, but I do see your point. >> In which case, is the title valid at all? Can you think of another potential "British Velvets" candidate? Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:23:53 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OFF TOPIC - Help needed with lyrics Where do they get their writers?!!? Usually axe-mags are quite hot on the anorak elements, but this is laughable.... Mark << Um, yes. Axe ace Howie even gets the vote ahead of Pete Shelley - "for his involvement in Spiral Scratch (check out Boredom) and his later work in Magazine, Howard just edges it". Obviously hiding the light that pours out of him behind a bushel. John McGeoch does get a No 5 ranking for Siouxsie and the Banshees in the Goth section as compensation. No place for Diggle. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 20:49:41 -0000 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Take Care/There Are/Worst Lyric > >Any others?... > I once made a compilation tape which by chance had a Lewis vocal track on one side (can't remember which) and flipped over directly opposite on the other side was "It's Raining Today" by Scott Walker. The latter was more 'polished' but the similarity was marked. Graeme - There Are - definitely not water; Mire perhaps, although I've just tried to decipher it and that's probably wrong; also, purpose and not progress? Worst Wire lyric - Mr Suit; seems like a bad stab at punk cred; I mean, 'Mr Suit' - come on! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:10:23 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OFF TOPIC - Help needed with lyrics In a message dated 20/03/01 19:06:35 GMT Standard Time, ssheen@clara.co.uk writes: > No place for Diggle. > > > /////// boo hiss. stevie , still my hero.p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:17:54 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Take Care/There Are/Worst Lyric In a message dated 20/03/01 20:58:20 GMT Standard Time, ian@ibarrett.fsnet.co.uk writes: > Worst Wire lyric - Mr Suit; seems like a bad stab at punk cred; I mean, 'Mr > Suit' - come on! > > ////////don't you think its a sort of parody? p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:26:30 EST From: MrSodium@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] repetitious arhythmic bipedal anomalies Who was dumber first--Wire or FZ? Previously: >So what is the worst Wire/Wir lyric? >'I'm looking at life >I'm looking at rhythm >Got two left feet >Can't do nothing with them' FZ: One of my legs is shorter than the other 'N' both my feet's too long 'Course now right along with 'em I got no natural rhythm But I go dancin' every night Hopin' one day I might get it right ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:30:15 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OFF TOPIC - Vic Reeves one thing nobody's saying is that Vic & Bob's humour is very working-class (note the last two words are not in inverted commas). you either get it or you don't, but Python stuff travelled better because they were public schoolboys (easier 'higher educational/ classical' reference points). (reaches for asbestos coat). //////// and yet the other 2 british shows that play endlessly across america are benny hill and "are you being served" , both totally lacking any cultural reference points at all. but what both do have is a real quirky "britishness" which i think is what the appeal is abroad. obviously the (english) python guys all had their oxbridge degrees , but i think the appeal is more a wacky eccentric englishness that seems totally surreal (and very funny)to foreigners. i don't think most of the audience is really aware of the classical reference points at all. (i am a python fan BTW). and of course , laughing at public schollboys is always to be encouraged....... > Vic & Bob's musical attempts were strictly punk rock, > disposable and not to be taken seriously, > anyone who bought it really did have more money than sense. > ////// i think V&B would agree with the above , they don't seem very egotistical about anything they've done. i think they fit nicely into the line of british humour stretching from the 50's to league of gentlemen. although not much of the "comedy" of the last couple of years has been much cop.p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:40:54 -0600 From: "dMc" Subject: [idealcopy] giving in to the playlist mania this week: ooioo (or 00100 (?)) - green and gold fred frith - traffic continues tipsy - uh oh (or is that dipsy - damn you brits and your teletubbies anyways - they've invaded my home and my mind - anyways these tinky-winks are from sf) joy zipper - joy zipper (this one has legs in my playlist) one star - triangulum akiko yano - home girl journey (as al said: simply beautiful) hox - opening sweep (better late than never) ornette coleman - tone dialing (the wire interview sent me back here) he said - take care (discussions here made me review and reject anew) puffy - jet (opens with beautiful ripoff of 'won't get fooled again' with jgirlpop vocals - utterly unironic mainstream deconstruction) and my fave for the week... kleenex girl wonder - thong song (exclusivly available at the march records website) ra)(o ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:47:02 -0800 (PST) From: j alberson Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Take Care I quite believe that my personal favorite Lewis singing would be on "I Should Have Known Better" and on "So and Slow it Grows"...the first doesn't have much of that Lewis croon but it's a chilling song. The latter, however, is on the level with the best Barry White croon! Aha! Wait! I take it back..."Eclipsed" from H.A.L.O.'s "Imminent"...marvelous!!! The "spoken" Lewis...I have to be in the right mood for some of it, which is not to say that it turns me gut. Am I laughing or crying? Jack P.S. For Colin lovers, how about "Quite Unrehearsed" from "It Seems"? Love that one. Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:10:39 -0600 (CST) From: "BotServerCentral-Sector:Mail a/k/a 2 Fs" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Take Care On Tue, 20 Mar 2001, Mark McQuitty wrote: > I'd just like to add my voice to the defense of He Said : Take Care. I still > enjoy the occasional listen and I'd agree with Craig that the first four > tracks are top electro/pop. They feature one of my favourite Wire-things, > Lewis crooning. As much as I like his new stuff, Hox, etc. I'm not as much > into his 'almost-spoken' deliveries compared to his full-on singing style. > One of the dissapointing things for me about current Wire is the lack of > exposure for Grahams voice. Step up to the mike Graham! Since I was the one who began the _Take Care_ dissing, I will add that I don't think it's a total loss. The first or second track, with the lengthy, abraded guitar part, is quite good, and other tracks have their moments. It's just that for me, those moments are surrounded by others much more dire. And I'm also in the "More Lewis singing, please" camp - I think it works best as a contrast w/Colin Newman's less refined, cagier vocals - not that Lewis is overrefined, just that that's more a part of his range than it is of Newman's. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::"In two thousand years, they'll still be looking for Elvis - :: this is nothing new," said the priest. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 22:26:28 -0000 From: "Stephen Jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] repetitious arhythmic bipedal anomalies >FZ: >One of my legs is shorter than the other 'N' both my feet's too long 'Course now right along with 'em > I got no natural rhythm > But I go dancin' every night >Hopin' one day I might get it right Well, as Sheik Yerbouti was released in '79 I guess Zappa was there first ;-) Steve. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ They use the head and not the fist. - -- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 19:49:11 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:worst lyrics, never! Howard, << Fall in Oxford sounds like a good plan. Anyone else interested. >> Well, I do need to get my annual Fall gig in somewhere...torn between Oxofrd, MK and London (all of which have appeal in various ways!) Wonder whose granny will be on bongos.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 19:50:29 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] manicured noise Paul, << ////// yes , i got it postcard & all , pretty impressive it was still there after all that time. i take it they all came with that sort of embossed/no paint label , so the sleeve basically looks pure black. maybe i'll get that other single ; i looked on gemm and they only go for about $6.p >> I've seen them both for less fairly recently....can't remember where though! Faith is definitely worthwhile, though "of its time"... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 19:52:47 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OFF TOPIC - Help needed with lyrics Steve, << this month's Total Guitar features a nice bit of TAB for Joy Division's "Shadowplay" >> As easy a piece of guitar music as you'll find....anyone with any ear for music should be able to work out all three chords and all four notes of the solo. Can't make head nor tail of those tablature thingys! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 01:45:14 +0000 From: Dr Volume Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - new Joy Division live album > PaulRabjohn@aol.com wrote > > ////// well that certainly sounds good. i have a really good tape of an amsterdam paradiso gig , guess that's where the bonus tracks come from? maybe its been rush-released to cash in on publicity for this turkey of a movie? still worth having i'm sure.p How do you know its a Turkey? They haven't finished filming yet! Me I can't wait to see Steve Coogan as Tony Wilson, an inspired bit of casting if you ask me. I doubt the new JD record is designed to cash in, I think the film is supposed to be about the manchester music scene through Wilsons eyes rather than a Curtis biopic. I heard the LP was going to be available in a limited edition Aluminum Sleeve....now that would be good. So does anyone know why this particular set is being released? I'd been led to believe that the only decent quality recordings had already been released on Still and the box set....Preston is bootleg quality and I assume it was released because it captures them almost suceeding under very grim circumstances and has them improvising like mad midway through...plus you get to hear Rob Gretton shouting at the band and at the peak of confusion a girl utters the immortal words.."Anyone going to Wigan the Coach leaves in five minutes!!!". So whats special about this new set? Any JD experts know? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:16:51 -0800 From: fernando Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - new Joy Division live album Hmmm I replied a bit earlier... but no worries. The aluminum edition was cancelled due to cost. It was to be a 2CD case with a video CD on it of the gig. The release date is set for next week... not sure if it will happen... there is always the delays. The box set has a good gig, as it was taped by Alan Hampsell from Crispy Ambulance... it seems that Peter Hook forgot who gave him the tape, because the box set mentions that they do not know the source. There is the original tape from Effennaar which is a fab gig, which the people who bootleg the show claimed that they sent the tape to the band. Paradiso has been bootlegged tremendously, and possibly that will never have a legit release (or let's hope so). There are other gigs of great quality, like the one at Blackpool taped by Larry Cassidy on that night that Ian and Rob offered to produce their first single. Peter is the keeper of all the soundboard tapes (though Larry has shared some of his copies)... and Peter has even earlier stuff. It could be a nice thing to release many of these... but I am not sure if he would cooperate with Wilson at this point... who is the one behind these releases. The Paris shows master tapes were stolen by an employee -- supposedly a DJ of the station -- but a broadcast after the theft, I think that in the 94/95 time frame, is of better quality than the bootlegged version, that is for sure. cheers! - -fernando At 01:45 AM 3/21/01 +0000, Dr Volume wrote: >>PaulRabjohn@aol.com wrote > >>////// well that certainly sounds good. i have a really good tape of an >>amsterdam paradiso gig , guess that's where the bonus tracks come from? >>maybe its been rush-released to cash in on publicity for this turkey of a >>movie? still worth having i'm sure.p > > >How do you know its a Turkey? They haven't finished filming yet! Me I >can't wait to see Steve Coogan as Tony Wilson, an inspired bit of casting >if you ask me. I doubt the new JD record is designed to cash in, I think >the film is supposed to be about the manchester music scene through >Wilsons eyes rather than a Curtis biopic. > >I heard the LP was going to be available in a limited edition Aluminum >Sleeve....now that would be good. >So does anyone know why this particular set is being released? I'd been >led to believe that the only decent quality recordings had already been >released on Still and the box set....Preston is bootleg quality and I >assume it was released because it captures them almost suceeding under >very grim circumstances and has them improvising like mad midway >through...plus you get to hear Rob Gretton shouting at the band and at the >peak of confusion a girl utters the immortal words.."Anyone going to Wigan >the Coach leaves in five minutes!!!". So whats special about this new set? >Any JD experts know? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 02:47:49 +0000 From: Tim Robinson Subject: [idealcopy] Wire = Euro VU From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V4 #81 If Wire are the British Velvet Underground then Autechre are the British Kraftwerk. I simply don't believe for a second that Wire's influence is as far reaching as VU's. Please notice that I did NOT just say that no one has been influenced by Wire, only that Wire have not changed things as directly or as radically as the Velvet Underground did. OK slight rethink as Graeme rightly points out they are the European Velvet Underground...what with EG Lewis being born in Elgerland Vargerland or wherever... But surely gross overstatement is entirely acceptable when discussing music isn't it? Its like Tony Wilson saying Shaun Ryder is the 90s Bob Dylan! My argument holds some water, and indeed I'm not the first listee to draw this parallel.....it was one of the other serial idealcopyists...Paul or Mark I think. Colin is clearly Lou Reed (mouthy egotistical genius), Gilbert is clearly Cale (quieter egotistical genius with serious avante garde heaviness), Gotobed is Mo Tucker (understated, born cool and complete metronomic perfection), trouble is Lewis is a sort of Cale/Reed hybrid so they haven't got a Sterling Morisson.....near enough though innit?? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 02:48:44 +0000 From: Tim Robinson Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V4 #81 Giluz Wrote By the way, who's Autechre? giluz Oh heck! I do apologise to everyone else on this list for going on about Autechre all the time but he did ask! .... Basically they are the best British electronic band of their generation. They make extraordinary records full of intricate layers of melodies and beats, and over the last few years they have developed their own musical langauge which is often imitated (myself included) but rarely matched. They are always intriguing, never boring and often heartbreakingly beautiful. I think you might like them. I'd say their most accessible release would be one of the earlierer ones, like Amber or Tri Repatae, but all their releases are all quite an advance on the previous one and well worth a listen. However, you need to give them time to sink in, repeated listening really does reward you with their stuff. I usually 'get' each sucessive LP after 30 or so spins! I'm still getting to grips with their last release which was a John Peel Session...I expect to understand it sometime next year...thats the way it is with Autechre. I honestly believe that they will be regarded as incredibly important and influential in the coming decades....give em 15-20 years and they will be musical legends! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 19:05:35 -0800 From: jeffh@artnet.net (Jeff Hall) Subject: Re: [idealcopy] manicured noise >>what i bought was a 7" single moscow 80 / metronome. er , is this typical of >>them? its a pretty limp white funk workout complete with parping saxes ; i >>really can't imagine bruce and graham being fans. > >They probably wouldn't be if they were just appearing now, but back >in 1980 they seemed really cool, to me at least... But recently I was >transferring both singles (the other one is "Faith" b/w "Freetime", and I think Faith / Freetime is the hit single, head & shoulders above their other work. Dated now, maybe, but in the day it was like happenin'. Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:45:07 -0000 From: "Stephen Jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire = Euro VU >Colin is clearly Lou Reed (mouthy egotistical genius), Gilbert is clearly >Cale (quieter egotistical genius with serious avante garde heaviness), >Gotobed is Mo Tucker (understated, born cool and complete metronomic >perfection), trouble is Lewis is a sort of Cale/Reed hybrid so they >haven't got a Sterling Morisson.....near enough though innit?? and presumably that Gill fellow was Nico, right? ;-) Steve. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ They use the head and not the fist. - -- ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #84 ******************************