From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #83 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, March 20 2001 Volume 04 : Number 083 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] OT - new Joy Division live album [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy]OT: UK fall tour... [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OT - new Joy Division live album [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy]OT: UK fall tour... [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OT - new Joy Division live album [fernando ] [idealcopy] Re: reaaalllyyy OT (but with Wire/Vic Reeves Parallel) [Tim R] [idealcopy] OT - Rix Pix plus a Residential Review! [Rick Hindman ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 10:17:22 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] OT - new Joy Division live album Another "official" release, like the Preston gig... Mark >>Second in the series from the Factory vaults released in conjunction with Factory supremo, Tony Wilson and the band. "Les Bain Douches" features 13 tracks mainly recorded at the December 18th show in 1979 at the now, legendary and extremely fashionably Parisian venue. The bonus material comes from shows recorded in Holland in January 1980. Artwork by Factory in-house designer Peter Saville. The booklet also includes the original poster art for the "Les Bain Douches" show. Liner notes by Anthony H. Wilson. 1. Passover 2. Disorder 3. Love Will Tear Us Apart 4. Insight 5. New Dawn Fades 6. Shadowplay 7. Transmission 8. Day Of The Lords 9. 24 Hours 10.These Days 11.Means To An End 12.Atrocity Exhibition 13.Atmosphere To be release March 26th, 2001 on CD (FACD2.61) and can be order online via www.n-m-c.co.uk << ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 11:04:44 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy]OT: UK fall tour... Here we go again.... I quite fancy Milton Keynes.... Mark Apr 16/ Newport TJ's 17/ Brighton Concorde 2 18/ Maidstone The Union Bar 19/ Colchester Arts Centre 20/ Norwich Arts Centre 21/ Milton Keynes Woughton Centre 22/ Oxford Zodiac 23/ London Mean Fiddler 24/ Birmingham Academy 2 25/ Macclesfield Bar Cuba ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 11:38:10 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - new Joy Division live album ////// well that certainly sounds good. i have a really good tape of an amsterdam paradiso gig , guess that's where the bonus tracks come from? maybe its been rush-released to cash in on publicity for this turkey of a movie? still worth having i'm sure.p >>Second in the series from the Factory vaults released in conjunction with Factory supremo, Tony Wilson and the band. "Les Bain Douches" features 13 tracks mainly recorded at the December 18th show in 1979 at the now, legendary and extremely fashionably Parisian venue. The bonus material comes from shows recorded in Holland in January 1980. Artwork by Factory in-house designer Peter Saville. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 11:47:18 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy]OT: UK fall tour... I quite fancy Milton Keynes.... ////// well someone has to. i lived quite near MK as a teenager and can't ever recall a gig there. the woughton centre is probably a leisure centre......maybe MES can have a nice game of squash and a light work-out in the afternoon before the gig? .......but sadly i'm back in svenska the week of the MK/oxford gigs. (shurely oxford must be a better bet?)p Mark Apr 16/ Newport TJ's 17/ Brighton Concorde 2 18/ Maidstone The Union Bar 19/ Colchester Arts Centre 20/ Norwich Arts Centre 21/ Milton Keynes Woughton Centre 22/ Oxford Zodiac 23/ London Mean Fiddler 24/ Birmingham Academy 2 25/ Macclesfield Bar Cuba ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 09:32:20 -0800 From: fernando Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - new Joy Division live album Actually, it is not a rushed release... it has been on the planned stages since the release of the Preston one... if the Preston one did "well." There was a limited edition planned, with a CD-video of the gig, but that was cancelled due to costs. Also, there were some comments about not finding good source for the show. I remember a story going around that in the early 90s the station wanted to re-broadcast the gig, but noticed that an earlier DJ stole the master tapes, though the source used for the re-broadcast was quite nice. Anyway, the search for the better source delayed the release until now... or whenever it comes out. cheers! - -fernando At 11:38 AM 3/19/01 -0500, PaulRabjohn@aol.com wrote: >////// well that certainly sounds good. i have a really good tape of an >amsterdam paradiso gig , guess that's where the bonus tracks come from? >maybe its been rush-released to cash in on publicity for this turkey of a >movie? still worth having i'm sure.p > > > >>Second in the series from the Factory vaults released in conjunction with >Factory supremo, Tony Wilson and the band. "Les Bain Douches" features 13 >tracks mainly recorded at the December 18th show in 1979 at the now, >legendary and extremely fashionably Parisian venue. The bonus material comes >from shows recorded in Holland in January 1980. >Artwork by Factory in-house designer Peter Saville. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 13:15:07 -0600 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V4 #80 >listen). These recordings were lacking that secret >weapon: the Gilbert. All Bruce's albums still sound >amazing to me - in fact the startlingly original >'Music For Fruit' (1991) is possibly my most listened >to eighties early nineties Wire related album over the >last few years, a veritable masterpiece and an >animated triumph for those who are not vegetables! >Autechre fans would love it! Well, some might... ;-) > >Lock up your hats! >Graeme Bruce's refusal to worry about what anyone "wants" from him is one of the things that makes him a true artist. If Shiv. Man were released today, it would still sound incredible and fresh. His solo albums will never sell well, but they will last very well indeed. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 14:21:40 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy]OT: UK fall tour... Paul, << ////// well someone has to. i lived quite near MK as a teenager and can't ever recall a gig there. the woughton centre is probably a leisure centre......maybe MES can have a nice game of squash and a light work-out in the afternoon before the gig?<< The Woughton Centre is a very sedate theatre-style seated venue that hosts a lot of gigs by older, more folky/singer-songwriterish acts (eg John Martyn, Roger McGuinn etc). So the Fall there should be quite bizzarre. >>.......but sadly i'm back in svenska the week of the MK/oxford gigs. (shurely oxford must be a better bet?)p >> Alternatively the Mean Fiddler (actually the LA2 with a lick of paint) is a good option. Saw the Fall there in '98. You back from Swedeland by then? Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 13:21:18 -0600 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V4 #81 >>>>>If Wire are the British Velvet Underground then >Autechre are the British Kraftwerk. I simply don't believe for a second that Wire's influence is as far reaching as VU's. Please notice that I did NOT just say that no one has been influenced by Wire, only that Wire have not changed things as directly or as radically as the Velvet Underground did. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 14:45:16 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] manicured noise enjoyed the interview with kevin eden in this months wireviews , nice to hear reminiscences about the EMI era (hey , i'm just too young to have been there...) recalling kevin's comments on manicured noise i saw a copy of one of their singles for 5skr (about 30p) in a swedish bargain bin and had to indulge. what i bought was a 7" single moscow 80 / metronome. er , is this typical of them? its a pretty limp white funk workout complete with parping saxes ; i really can't imagine bruce and graham being fans. were there some other , earlier releases? what were they supporting wire? just curious,p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:54:38 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Best of the Worst (Stop!) So what is the worst Wire/Wir lyric? I'd go for either 'Mary is a Dyke' (although I think it's a bit unfair to count material that never made it onto albums) or this, from 'Stop!' 'I'm looking at life I'm looking at rhythm Got two left feet Can't do nothing with them' It's not reproduced on the insert of 'The First Letter' so perhaps it was a last minute improvisation? Oh please! The streets are full of howling cheese! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine webzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 13:16:02 -0800 (PST) From: eric719@webtv.net (Eric Strang) Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Best of the Worst (Stop!) <> I'll go with the first four lines of Morning Bell. I think it's the worst song Wire has done. Eric ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 16:24:08 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Best of the Worst (Stop!) sorry but to me its that "shit behind the teeth" lyric on morning bell. that is one of very few cringeworthy moments in the entire wire catalogue. i used to hate "mr suit" , but i quite like it now. wonder if george gill wrote the lyric of "mary...."? p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 15:50:30 -0600 From: "JH3" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] manicured noise >what i bought was a 7" single moscow 80 / metronome. er , is this typical of >them? its a pretty limp white funk workout complete with parping saxes ; i >really can't imagine bruce and graham being fans. They probably wouldn't be if they were just appearing now, but back in 1980 they seemed really cool, to me at least... But recently I was transferring both singles (the other one is "Faith" b/w "Freetime", and yes, it's quite similar-sounding) to CD and I couldn't help but thinking they were all just nice dance tunes, nothing really startling about them. So I guess it's just a matter of historical perspective? I say that about lots of things, of course. Remember, this was the pre-Kenny-G era, so saxophones were still acceptable to music fans. Anybody remember James White & the Blacks' version of "That Old Black Magic"? Yowwww! Also, MN's live sets probably had more experimental-sounding material than the two singles. But I didn't get to hear them myself... >...what were they supporting wire? Unlikely -- some form of steel-aluminum alloy is normally used to make the supporting wire that's sewn into ladies' brassieres, or else some other form of metal. Either way, I doubt that a defunct post-punk/funk- hybrid band from the UK would be used for this purpose; the mass- manufacturing problems alone would cause enough cost overruns to scuttle the whole idea, not to mention the challenges from a marketing perspective. Still, it's nice work if you can get it! John "mentally defunct" Hedges PS. Okay, yeah, they did open for them a few times. Sorry, sometimes I just can't resist... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 02:31:55 +0000 From: Tim Robinson Subject: [idealcopy] Re: reaaalllyyy OT (but with Wire/Vic Reeves Parallel) Tim Robinson Wrote (about Vic Reeves) His style of humour doesn't seem to 'travel' beyond these shores which always puzzles me because I always thought it was very Python-esque. Giluz Wrote: But the Pythons were funny, while Reeves is just vulgar and silly. As to his musical attempts, theye were even worse. giluz Oh thats interesting actually. I'm really intrigued by the way Humour doesn't travel as well as music. Certainly Vic Reeves musical efforts are, quite rightly, long long forgotten, although you may well hear his version of Dizzy (featuring the Wonderstuff) at Student discos in Preston, Lancashire to this day....but lets forget the musical aspect. The Pythons and Neil Innes are among the few people who made good comedy records...Vic Reeves ain't. However, You say Reeves is Silly and Vulgar....come on Python were silly as hell! Silly is funny! So is Reeves, However i'd argue that neither needed to use vulgar or 'shock' humour to make people laugh. (Anyone can be 'Shocking'...see the Wretched Damien Hurst, The Wretched Eminem.......the only shocking thing about Damien Hurst is his appalling taste in Blur and the only shocking thing about Eminem is those f**kin awful Dungarees) One of the things that was really refreshing about Vic Reeves was that (like Python) he didn't need to fall back on the toilet/tits/mother-in-law stuff, or even politics in his humour. Instead he based his material on things like Biscuits, Denim, Spandau Ballet, Meat, local Councillors, peformance art, Parnsips, Folk Music, handbags and Morrisey. All terribly English but the Kinks and The Smiths still sold/sell records all over the World didn't they? OK some of Vics later stuff fell back on lazy fart-gags and sexual innuedo (maybe thats all you've seen?)....same as Wire fell into worthless synth-pap around the time of Manscape. Our heroes let us down sometimes. He came back with 'Bang Bang Its Reeves & Mortimer' which was his 'The First Letter'.....he has yet to do his 21st Century comeback thing like Wire though. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:52:25 -0800 (PST) From: Rick Hindman Subject: [idealcopy] OT - Rix Pix plus a Residential Review! Greetings fellow ICers~ Here is the playlist for the week, as the shelling has let up a bit (heh heh!!) Also, I picked up the Resident's "Icky Flix" DVD and it rocks! I have seen their videos since the mid/late '70's, but they have been remastered and include old and new versions of the music! Plus there are some secret "rooms", one of which I found by accident! It is extremely entertaining and I highly recommend it!!! And now, to be slightly on-topic (gasp!). I listened to "Coatings" and "Diskomo 2000" today and it struck me that Wire and The Residents are two of the only groups I know of that can rearrange old material into a new style and have it come off as well (or better!) than the original version! It sees that most groups are too worried about alienating fans by growing and changing. They are two very special bands, and I'm glad I found them and appreciate them as I do... And now for something completely off topic.... Jeff Beck - Wired Bee Bop Deluxe - Live in the Air Age Christian Death - Amen Bruce Cockburn - Nothing But a Burning Light Eno - Taking Tiger Mountain KMFDM - Naive Love and Rockets - 7th Dream of Teenage Heaven Ministry - A Mind is a Terrible Thing to Taste Bill Nelson - Love That Whirls (Diary of a Thinking Heart) PIL - Compact Disc Primus - Tales From the Punchbowl Radiohead - The Bends The Residents - Diskomo 2000 Skinny Puppy - Back and Forth, Series Two Snakefinger - Chewing Hides the Sound Tom Waits - Blue Valentine Wire - Coatings Xorcist - Soul Reflection XTC - BBC Radio 1 Live Zappa/Mothers - Fillmore East, June 1971 Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 03:57:53 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] manicured noise >...what were they supporting wire? Unlikely -- some form of steel-aluminum alloy is normally used to make the supporting wire that's sewn into ladies' brassieres, or else some other form of metal. Either way, I doubt that a defunct post-punk/funk- hybrid band from the UK would be used for this purpose; the mass- manufacturing problems alone would cause enough cost overruns to scuttle the whole idea, not to mention the challenges from a marketing perspective. Still, it's nice work if you can get it! John "mentally defunct" Hedges /////// now i'm sure i typed that out as "what were they LIKE supporting wire". or maybe not. the magazine site has developed a really good glitch where it seems to try and translate a phrase into something more suitable. so i wrote "peter hook" but what appeared was "baited by anglers". so any attempt at a message on their bulletin board sort of falls flat.p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:18:09 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V4 #81 > >>>>>If Wire are the British Velvet Underground then > >Autechre are the British Kraftwerk. > > I simply don't believe for a second that Wire's influence is as far > reaching as VU's. Please notice that I did NOT just say that no one has > been influenced by Wire, only that Wire have not changed things > as directly > or as radically as the Velvet Underground did. Quite right, but also quite expected. VU were to art-rock / alternative / punk / post-punk / new wave, or whatever other definition you'd apply, what the Beatles were to pop. You can't expect any band showing up later that'd have the same influence. By the way, who's Autechre? giluz ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #83 ******************************