From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #79 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Friday, March 16 2001 Volume 04 : Number 079 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] OT okay, here's my play list (sticks tongue out) [Chris.R] [idealcopy] OT Online Stores [Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk] [idealcopy] re: ABIAC v IBTABA debate ["ian jackson" ] Re: [idealcopy] IBTA Radio One A [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy] "80s" Wire [mflaher3@triton.cc.il.us] Re: [idealcopy] IBTA Radio One A [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: [idealcopy] There Are (Poets at Work Again) ["Ian B" Subject: [idealcopy] re: ABIAC v IBTABA debate throwing in my penny's worth... i much prefer ABIAC to IBTABA, for me IBTABA creates the same ('grey?' is that fair?) atmosphere as D&E (although the differences are obvious). I play these a lot less than the 'studio' lp's, though enjoyed listening to D&E for the first time in ages a month or two ago... IMO ABIAC is a fine piece of work, yes one or two tracks don't quite hit the spot, still a classic lp nonetheless, though it doesn't have the 'zing' TIC has, production differential maybe??? Maybe it just doesn't have the rush the band were feeling, after getting back together?. ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 07:43:31 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] IBTA Radio One A Sorry Craig...the bloke form the Smiths/Aztec Camera/Blue Orchids etc etc got in there somehow!!! Mark << Gannell????!?? >> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 04:51:49 -0800 (PST) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: [idealcopy] IBTA Radio One A > Perhaps, but Snub was the bastion of the indie band. > From what I remember, Wire was actually one of the > most famous bands on that show!! ... nah, it had some quality top notch bands on there like Tangerine, Ancient Beatbox, Junior Manson Slags... John Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 07:53:23 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] IBTA Radio One A Paul, << Uh, no edition of IBTABA that I own has the studio German Shepards on it. That's on the Silk Skin Paws single. The German Shepards on IBTABA is a rework, just like the rest of the album, except for In Vivo, Eardrum Buzz and The Offer. >> GS was actually written during a Peel session - it mutated from the Boiling Boy riff if I recall correctly. I just see those last four songs as the last 'real' '80s Wire (ie "Beat Combo" Wire) songs - even though Robert is programming the drum machines on Manscape, it's post-Beat Combo, drumless and neo-Wir. The Manscape tour was just the three of them, wasn't it. In Vivo, Eardrum Buzz and The Offer were all played as new songs at that Astoria gig - there was certainly still gas in the tank for writing popWire stuff at that point, but I suspect little interest in continuing with the Beat Combo format. Just look at the solo works at the time - It Seems and Take Care (roughly contemporary with ABIAC) are both synthed and sequenced up as much as possible. Inevitable that they would take the technology into Wire too. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 08:03:23 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] IBTA Radio One A John, << S'funny you should say that but I've always thought tht those last two tracks could have made very good pop singles. Mind you, so could a lot of Wire songs. >> Absolutely. Would have made a good little series (serious?) of singles.... Likewise I still don't know why they didn't go with the Gareth Jones remix of Madman's Honey (eventually released on Coatings) as a single. Don't think they know why either.... Typical Wire, again! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 08:06:49 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Autechre Gilbert Symptoms << If Wire are the British Velvet Underground<< They are. My theory (c)Bursacrap productions, 2000 >> then Autechre are the British Kraftwerk. >> Hmmm....hardly pioneering though. Not their fault they weren't born 20 years earlier!! How about Cabaret Voltaire? Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 08:24:01 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT Online Stores Chris, << Does anyone know of decent online CD stores apart from Carbondisks and Sister Ray? >> Try www.gemm.com - massive selection drawn from independent stores around the world, with new and used stuff. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 08:43:04 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Television @ Shepherds Bush Empire In a message dated Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:40:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, MarkBursa@aol.com writes: << Tickets are on sale via Ticketweb.co.uk....price #18.50 I've got mine! Mark ///// hey isn't cyberspace great. i'm sitting here in the middle of sweden remotely accessing my mail , and i've just bought a ticket for a concert 1000 miles away. let's hope the idealcopy non-wire-gig-curse doesn't strike for a third time. .......and i'm just off to see the person who i've had the rune lindblad cd/album/book set mailed to. she better not have let me down on this one.... p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 13:55:21 +0000 From: nsi4670000-Short Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Autechre Gilbert Symptoms MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > > << If Wire are the British Velvet Underground<< > > They are. My theory (c)Bursacrap productions, 2000 > > >> then Autechre are the British Kraftwerk. >> > > Hmmm....hardly pioneering though. Not their fault they weren't born 20 years > earlier!! How about Cabaret Voltaire? > > Mark The British Kraftwerk? Either Gilbert&George, or The Human League. Is Chiastic Slide typical of Autechre? It's the only album of theirs I've heard. For the first 10 minutes it makes me think "this is the future of music", then I start thinking "what is this racket?" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 15:59:26 GMT From: timrobinson@cwcom.net Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Snub TV >Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 01:18:34 -0800 (PST) >From: Wireviews >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] IBTA Radio One A > >> It had a decent in MTV terms video too. > >That's because it's a great video and certainly Wire's >best from that period. Remember, MTV used to play >decent music back then! :) > >> It got them good >> exposure on Snub for example. > >Perhaps, but Snub was the bastion of the indie band. >From what I remember, Wire was actually one of the >most famous bands on that show!! ... They were pretty good at finding bands who would later become mega famous, certainly more famous than Wire. They had Stone Roses, Happy Mondays, The KLF, The Sundays, The Pixies, Primal Scream... Mind you most of the time it was stuff like The Weather Prophets or Edsel Auctioneer, but pretty much every definitive indie band of the late 80s was on that show at some point. Great show. Bring it back!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 09:47:15 -0800 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: [OT] Autechre (was RE: [idealcopy] Autechre Gilbert Symptoms) >Is Chiastic Slide typical of Autechre? >It's the only album of theirs I've heard. In my opinion, it's very atypical of Autechre. I have Tri Repetae++, Chiastic Slide, ae (which I think is sometimes called LP5 - but not in America), and ep7. It was quite difficult getting Chiastic Slide in the U.S. - no label picked it up here. (Initially, for U.S. distribution, Autechre were on Wax Trax, now they're on Nothing records) Tri Repetae++ (the ++ indicates that it includes the anvil vapre and garbage eps) is very different. It features long swells of analog synths and almost hummable melodies. (My favorite, BTW.) The anvil vapre and garbage eps are "noisier", but still structured. Chiastic Slide features the oddest drum/rhythm programming I've ever heard. ae (The brown album) and ep7 sound like Chiastic Slide toned down a little, which makes them more effective for me. I quite like parts of ae - probably my second favorite Autechre release. (Sorry if the formatting on this e-mail comes out weird - I'm accessing the list thru a web browser right now.) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 10:08:47 -0800 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: RE: [idealcopy] IBTA Radio One A >GS was actually written during a Peel session - >it mutated from the Boiling >Boy riff if I recall correctly. Nope and nope. (Boy - I'm just being contrary today, aren't I? (^_^) ) In Everybody Loves a History, pg 156, Colin states that "It [German Shepards] was the riff out of "Finest Drops", and we were just playing round with it." Also, the book mentions that the a lyric had to be changed for broadcast on the Peel Show (The nasty "f" word was changed to "flying"), so it would seem to me that the original version of the song was an outtake for ABIAC, and revisited for the Peel Show. Certainly, to me, the original studio version sounds like it belongs on the album. Sequenced as heck! (^_^) In fact, it's kinda interesting listening to the three different versions of German Shepards. You can kind of tell where Wire's head was "at" with each version. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 14:12:45 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] IBTA Radio One A Paul, << >GS was actually written during a Peel session - >it mutated from the Boiling >Boy riff if I recall correctly. Nope and nope. (Boy - I'm just being contrary today, aren't I? (^_^) )<< No, you're just an anorak ;-) >>In Everybody Loves a History, pg 156, Colin states that "It [German Shepards] was the riff out of "Finest Drops", and we were just playing round with it."<< Well, memory fails me sometimes. It's old age... >>Also, the book mentions that the a lyric had to be changed for broadcast on the Peel Show (The nasty "f" word was changed to "flying"), so it would seem to me that the original version of the song was an outtake for ABIAC, and revisited for the Peel Show. Certainly, to me, the original studio version sounds like it belongs on the album. Sequenced as heck! (^_^)<< And the 'pissing in a bin' bit. I certainly remeber hearing the Peel version first, and being quite disappointed with the official one, despite the unexpurgated lyrics! >> In fact, it's kinda interesting listening to the three different versions of German Shepards. You can kind of tell where Wire's head was "at" with each version. >> I think they now consider the Peel version as definitive. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 14:53:47 CST6CDT From: mflaher3@triton.cc.il.us Subject: [idealcopy] "80s" Wire If by "80s" Wire we mean the first reunion, here's my order of preference: 1. Wir (album & ep) 2. Manscape 3. Ideal Copy 4. Drill 5. IBA ... 6. Bell Michael Flaherty - ------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Triton College's Web E-Mail. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 15:29:00 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [idealcopy] IBTA Radio One A On Thu, 15 Mar 2001 MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > In Vivo, Eardrum Buzz and The Offer were all played as new songs at that > Astoria gig - there was certainly still gas in the tank for writing popWire > stuff at that point, but I suspect little interest in continuing with the > Beat Combo format. Just look at the solo works at the time - It Seems and > Take Care (roughly contemporary with ABIAC) are both synthed and sequenced up > as much as possible. Inevitable that they would take the technology into Wire > too. Well yes, _It Seems_ and _Take Care_ are "synthed and sequenced up" - but to quite different ends. _Take Care_ is, to me, the lamest thing anyone involved in Wire has done. The production and arranging are oh-so-eighties - what's the song w/the chirpy female backing singing something about "shot my baby"? and then there's our boy Lewis's attempt to "rap" on a track or two. There are some good moments (and I just listened to it again yesterday to make sure I wasn't missing anything), but I remember when I first heard it, thinking "uh-oh - Lewis at least is going down the tubes." Later work redeemed him - - but I've still been wary of checking out all of it because of _Take Care_. (I like _Hail_ much better, fwiw). - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::the sea is the night asleep in the daytime:: __Robert Desnos__ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 22:33:22 -0000 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] IBTA Radio One A > Absolutely. Would have made a good little series (serious?) of singles.... > Likewise I still don't know why they didn't go with the Gareth Jones remix of > Madman's Honey (eventually released on Coatings) as a single. Don't think > they know why either.... > > Typical Wire, again! > > Mark I reckon, take away the IRA reference (which would have precluded airplay) and Ambitious could, in the summer of '87, have been the elusive 'hit' that they never had. I'm not sure Madman's Honey would've done it. Ian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 23:17:18 -0000 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] There Are (Poets at Work Again) - ----- Original Message ----- From: Graeme Rowland > One of my favourite Bruce lyrics / poems is the one he > reads for the opening section of 'There Are' (which > incidentally is incorrectly listed as an instrumental > on Andrew's Wire Page). Since many of you will have > the Cd compilation of 'This Way To The Shivering Man' > which omits it, here it is for your perusal and joy! > Who knows, it might just make you curious enough to > check out the original vinyl edition... > > Pale and thin, there are angels floating on the water > Their pockets are filled with deliverance > Printed on the finest bank note paper > > Weighted down by their holy scriptures > The choir dive for oysters > Its progress underwater recorded by a column of pearls > > And there, there are winter men squeezing the light > And the princes paint forgeries > > ('There Are', Bruce Gilbert / The Shivering Man) > > I think 'winter men squeezing the light' is one of his > most resonant images. > > Spanish squids scratching? > Graeme > I think There Are is one of Bruce Gilbert's finest moments - perfectly judged. I'm amazed it was dropped from This Way to The Shivering Man (would both albums not have fit onto one CD?) On the basis of There Are, The Other Window, Long Lost Life, Ticking Mouth and Flagwearing, I was really looking forward to The Haring, imagining a series of tracks featuring a Gilbert 'vocal'; as such, I was disappointed. Casting aside preconceptions, I'm still not particularly excited by it. Perhaps it may have made an interesting idea for a one-off radio broadcast, but as a CD, repeated visits don't really reveal anything new for me. Graeme - where did you source the lines from There Are? Are you sure the angels are afloat on the water? Also, can you help out on Long Lost Life - where do the memories parade in their slow march, and what does he examine the years with? Ian ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #79 ******************************