From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #73 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Saturday, March 10 2001 Volume 04 : Number 073 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Re: xtc debate/Eardrum Buzz [Howard Spencer ] [idealcopy] bruce gilbert/pan sonic [=?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= ] Re: [idealcopy] Def E Smith [John Roberts ] Re: [idealcopy] XTC ["Stephen Jackson" ] [idealcopy] Re: OFF TOPIC - XTC, some personal thoughts ["dMc" ] Re: [idealcopy] reaaalllyyy OT [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] [idealcopy] (OT) sod quad [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] RE: [idealcopy] (OT) sod quad ["Ciscon, Ray" ] Re: [idealcopy] (OT) sod quad [Paul Pietromonaco ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 11:39:11 +0000 From: Howard Spencer Subject: [idealcopy] Re: xtc debate/Eardrum Buzz RE XTC - I was never really into them much, but about a year ago I bought Fossil Fuel, the double CD singles compilation. I was really impressed, esp by the early stuff which I knew nothing of, and have played it regularly since (apart from anything else, it is good to have a change from the electronica that forms most of my `current' interests). To my cloth ears, the major similarity between Wire and XTC is that the stuff from c. 20 years ago has not become dated. There is also the talent of both bands in writing ridiculously catchy pop songs (eg kidney bingoes, generals and majors) that were somehow not chart hits. Trainspotters point - Eardrum Buzz WAS a hit in the UK - got to no 73! Now then, now then, rattle-rattle, jewellery-jewellery, cigar-cigar etc. Howard ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 04:36:13 -0800 (PST) From: kevin eden Subject: [idealcopy] check this out http://www.fourthdoor.co.uk/eno1.html ===== kevin eden wmo, po box 112, stockport, cheshire, sk3 9fd, uk wmouk@yahoo.com http://wiremailorder.com/ "dreams that money can buy" Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 13:11:39 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] bruce gilbert/pan sonic >>>>anyone heard about the bruce gilbert/pan sonic cooperation? m Are you new to the Ideal Copy? We've discussed it a fair bit here... It's called IBM It's on Mego http://www.mego.at I reviewed it for Brainwashed's Brain weekly online music bulletin. Craig reviewed it for Wireviews. If anyone would like me to post the unedited version of my review to this list then let me know! These Records inform us that it is selling fast! Only 1000 pressed. Hats! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine webzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 13:20:26 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Pan Under My Skin >>>>Ok, Bruce+Pan Sonic=IBM, but what is the Graham's collaboration? he put vocals for 'I've got you under my skin' to one of their tracks... I forget which one. It appeared on a Swedish magazine's CD compilation. I think it's listed in Andrew's Wire page discography. It was very good! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine webzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 13:25:20 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] XTC ////// what i was trying to say was that it wasn't a typical pop song with typical lyrics , not that it was shelley or keats or something. Gimme G lewis over those ol' fops any day! As for XTC I liked 'em up til 'Black Sea' & 2 songs off 'English Settlement'. Would agree that 'Go 2' is maybe their best, except the abysmal ABarry Andrews songs. Wire right vastly superior lyrics! XTC descend into pure corn way too much. Battery Brides, Travels in Nihilon & Science Friction were good 'uns though. haven't listened to XTC in years but plat Wire every couple of days or so. Lock up that Cola on tap! It'll rot yer teeth! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine webzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 13:35:18 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Def E Smith Mark Short said >>>>Going by the quality of the sound at gigs, most musicians/engineers sense of hearing is impaired rather than extra-sensitive. Judging by The Fall gigs I suffered last year, Smith must be completely deaf by now, and probably poked out the other band members' eardrums as a prerequisite. He is now trying to deafen all his fans so they stop asking him to sign their Half Man Half Biscuit & I Ludicrous sleeves. As for the soundman, a baboon on crack could probably do a better job! Contrast with Wire who got it nigh on perfect in Edinburgh! Geuuuurm Ship!!! Any time now!!!! Fatal Attractor!!!!! Der der doo der!!!!!!!!!! Graeme (still avoiding mad cow disease with foot in mouth blues) ===== Cracked Machine webzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 14:44:57 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Poppy I Lied! (So here it is, again) March 7th Got up 1 pm Sang in shower: Coil (Horse Rotorvator medley), Wire (A Serious of Madman's Honey Snakes) & Fall (Sleep Debt Snatches, Mark'll Sink Us) & wrote most of the day to Autechre - Chiastic Slide (Tk 6 onwards) Pan Sonic - Aaltopiiri Neil Young - Rust Never Sleeps LP (side 2 first) Neil Young - Shots (from Reactor LP) Bedhead - The Dark Ages New Order - Substance 2LP (sides 1 & 4 & Blue Monday) Dirty Three - Ocean Songs 2LP Coil vs elpH - Protection Wire - The Drill LP (side 1) Vibracathedral Orchestra - Lino Hi Throwing Muses - Limbo LP side 1 Throwing Muses - Hunk Papa LP side 2 Silo - Alloy Switched on the radio to listen to silly ol' Peelie but all he played for the first half hour was wishy washy dated indie pap & bog standard techno... So whilst I waited for the 2nd Beefheart session I span X Ray Spex - Identity / Lets Submerge 7" OMD - Electricity 7" Adverts - Bored Teenagers / Gary Gilmore's Eyes 7" Magazine - Shot by both sides / my mind ain't so open 7" ....flipped back to Peel & caught most of a mediocre Burnt Friedman track & a track by Kind of Like Spitting from Portland which had a pretty good guitar solo, followed by a nice dub cut from Disciples Riddim Section. ......Then a colourless shock quite unlooked for! Oasis clones infiltrating my ramshackle abode! So I played the only thing I could under the circumstances (it was time for desperate measures, almost emergency conditions) New Order - interview pic disc 7" at the wrong speed for that helium Hook Then after this daftness I heard quite a good track from Orbital's new album (not amazing or anything, but listenable - who needs these 2 bald bros when you have Autechre?) Captain Beefheart's 2nd session from May 1968 .......and then Siouxsie & the Banshees - Staircase 7" .......back to peel for a crap song by Frank Black & the best one of this broadcast from Evax (on Static Caravan), who I guess Colin might like. Peel segued it very effectively into some old 1939 dancehall jazz favourite from Bud somebody or other Benumbed sounded it, razor gargle metal Relapse Songs Ohia did Neil Young shtick, segued neatly into a classic bit of soul from Rex Garvin & the Mighty Cravers, then fairly convincing technoid trance Corvin Dalek - 'Pornogram' Then the dumbed down dipshit midnight news bulletin informed me of a budgie for the family, a drunk driver dead at the wheel for 15 years, a few goals, smokers with kids worse off under the inflating guts of Gordon Brown, students needing to get pissed & happy after rugby (scrumhalf! scrumhalf!), young girl getting shot in US school (but no claims against heavy metal rock pops reported). Giles Peterson sounded like a smarmy stoner so it was time to relax in my slippers, feet up, to Berkowitz, Lake & Dahmer - Contraception of the Gods ....Throbbing Gristle Body Rice ind est o noise fans should check this out via http://www.fflintcentral.co.uk There are about 1000 discs I want to listen to tomorrow so I'm going to approach the scientific establishment to find out about getting the day extended a few hours. I hear scientists can do just about anything these days! Motto Poptones! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine webzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 11:33:50 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Def E Smith Graeme, The one Fall gig I saw last year (RFH) had excellent sound - too clean if anything, showing up the new lads-ah's skills as being inferior to Hanley, Scanlon etc. You could even hear the words! Mark << Judging by The Fall gigs I suffered last year, Smith must be completely deaf by now, and probably poked out the other band members' eardrums as a prerequisite. He is now trying to deafen all his fans so they stop asking him to sign their Half Man Half Biscuit & I Ludicrous sleeves. As for the soundman, a baboon on crack could probably do a better job! >> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 13:02:39 -0600 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] Art >Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 07:40:59 EST >From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com and "blue" was not the most gripping movie ever (90 minutes of a solid blue screen with a soundtrack). p I saw this at the Mus. of Cont. Art in Chicago. I loved it, but it probably only works well in that kind of space: blue wall, piped in sound, in a very small room w/ no chairs. >From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey >Fact is, in comparison with, say, 20th century avant garde music, Wire is >very conventional indeed. That's not a putdown, just a statement of fact. I absoluetly agree w/ this. I don't necessarily think that it's for better or worse, it just is. Just because music doesn't sell doesn't mean it isn't commercial. Graham & Bruce outside of Wire is, of corse, a different story. >Poetry, like all art, is in the eye of the beholder. Ray No it's not. OK, everyone imagine something you've dedicated your life to understanding, and perhaps make your living by explaining parts of to others. Now there's me, who doesn't know much about it. Yet I claim my opinion on said subject of your expertise is just as valid as yours. Now you know why the above quote makes me bristle a bit (for about 10 seconds--OK, I'm over it). Micvhael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 11:22:22 -0800 (PST) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Def E Smith According to the Fall website the latest gig in Dublin featured yet more new musicians since the RFH gig and last tour. And, yes, he was out of his heat at this one too. John - --- MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > Graeme, > > The one Fall gig I saw last year (RFH) had excellent > sound - too clean if > anything, showing up the new lads-ah's skills as > being inferior to Hanley, > Scanlon etc. You could even hear the words! > > Mark Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 20:04:10 -0000 From: "Stephen Jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] XTC >As for XTC I liked 'em up til 'Black Sea' & 2 songs >off 'English Settlement'. Would agree that 'Go 2' is >maybe their best, except the abysmal ABarry Andrews >songs. S'funny...I'd say without hesitation that Go2 is their worst record (although I'd agree that BA's songs are terrible) >Wire right vastly superior lyrics! Not sure I'd agree there- although Lewis writes good stuff (usually) both GL and CN have written some pretty oblique, dare I say, meaningless lyrics? I mean, what *really* does "drag my canal you saucy old salt pale in belief I'm not without fault" mean?.....Morning Bell...terrible lyric. Over Theirs- lyric=bag o' shite..... For every 10 A "Serious" of Snakes there's one pile of arsecandle.... Sorry and all that.... Curiously my favourite Wire lyric is one of Bruce's- "The Other Window" Steve. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ They use the head and not the fist. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 14:37:13 -0600 From: "dMc" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: OFF TOPIC - XTC, some personal thoughts I saw 2 XTC shows in Detroit - in support of Drums and Wires at a small club called Bookies and in support of English Settlement at the Music Hall (a proper theatre). In both shows Andy was entirely off his nut. My impression was always that the nova blew out thereafter. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 14:40:11 -0600 From: "dMc" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] eco-mozzer (OT) Jarman > I've got a friend who used to work at the BBC, and they were just doing a > series of documentary films on British directors. Unfortunately, the two > first directors they started with died during the shooting (Jarman and > Lindsay Anderson). When they later called Theresa Russel, Nicolas Roeg's > wife, she didn't want anything to do with them, 'cause she was frightened > her husband might die during the shooting as well. I guess that's why Mr. > Roeg is still alive today (mmm, he is, right?) Rather callous there.. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 15:10:43 -0600 From: "dMc" Subject: [idealcopy] reaaalllyyy OT I picked up a dis by Vic Reeves called "I will heal you" Seriously warped fellow wih 'Steve Beresford, his piano and his orchestra", the wonder stuff and the grid making musical contributions. Any additional insights are appreciaed (possibly off list?) d ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 16:49:43 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] reaaalllyyy OT ........well not totally OT. vic did a song called "i remember punk rock" (sung in a crooning style) that namechecked wire amongst others.p ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 16:57:50 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] (OT) sod quad ..... i did read all those posts about cd quality , even understood a little :-) anyway , i saw today an article about something called (i think) SADC , which will be a sort of surround-sound cd format......... warning ; prog-alert ...........which means (oh dear) that all the old 70's quadrophonic tapes can be dragged out and re-issued in this format. first up are (quelle surprise) mike oldfield and tangerine dream. see , they'll re-sell you everything. i can remember seeing quad lp's in the shops , but i never knew anyone who owned the gear. doubt there were too many punk releases , but then i'd have guessed that about 8-track. so how about a surroundsound "154".......maybe we could get mike thorne in to do the re-mix. somebody send emi an e-mail.p ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 16:37:27 -0600 From: "Ciscon, Ray" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] (OT) sod quad Paul wrote: ..... i did read all those posts about cd quality , even understood a little :-) anyway , i saw today an article about something called (i think) SADC , which will be a sort of surround-sound cd format......... warning ; prog-alert ...........which means (oh dear) that all the old 70's quadrophonic tapes can be dragged out and re-issued in this format. first up are (quelle surprise) mike oldfield and tangerine dream. see , they'll re-sell you everything. i can remember seeing quad lp's in the shops , but i never knew anyone who owned the gear. doubt there were too many punk releases , but then i'd have guessed that about 8-track. so how about a surroundsound "154".......maybe we could get mike thorne in to do the re-mix. somebody send emi an e-mail.p =============== You're not as far off as you think.... Reports on Loopz, Orbital's website have them releasing a version of their next album on DVD, mixed for SURROUND SOUND. Being as big an Orbital freak as I am a Wire fan, I will of course be picking up this DVD release, I just hope it gets released in Region 1 or no Region. That's when I'll be able to tell if it's a good thing or not... Cheers, Ray ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 16:09:07 -0800 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: [idealcopy] (OT) sod quad >..... i did read all those posts about cd quality , even understood a little >:-) anyway , i saw today an article about something called (i think) SADC , >which will be a sort of surround-sound cd format......... > I think they're out in the states now. Are these from Sony? I think they're called SACD for Super Audio CD. I've seen 'em at my local Tower Records. Let's see, we have CD, CD Extra, CD+G, CD-ROM, CD-R, CD-RW, Video CD, Super Video CD, DVD, DVD-Audio, DVD-R, SACD - that's just not enough!!! That's just not enough!!!! We need more formats!!! Actually, here's the main hi-definition audio formats available: DTS CD - 5.1 channel sound, like DTS for the theater. This replaces the regular 2 channel CD audio tracks with DTS tracks. These are standard CDs, with different data streams. You can even use a regular CD player with digital outputs and an outboard DTS decoder. http://www.dtsonline.com/consumer/index.html DVD - 96 kHz/24 bit - These are regular DVDs that have higher quality audio. Your DVD player has to support this, but most do. Regular Stereo only, I'm afraid. (no web address per se - this is part of the regular DVD spec.) DVD Audio - These are special DVDs that have high resolution, multichannel audio tracks in a DVD audio format, and, for backwards compatibility, Dolby 5.1 channel digital audio tracks in a DVD Video format. You have to have a DVD audio player to play the high resolution audio tracks, but a regular DVD player can play the standard DVD Dolby 5.1 tracks. http://www.digitalaudioguide.com/faq/dvd-audio/faq_intro.htm SACD - Super Audio CD. Not DVD, nor CD. High resolution multichannel audio. These discs require a special player. They come single layer, dual layer and dual layer hybrid. The dual layer hybrid discs are supposed to play back on a regular CD player, but all of the discs for sale in the U.S. are single layer. http://www.sel.sony.com/SEL/consumer/sacd/static/format.html Of all of these formats, SACD is a solution in search of a problem. DVD audio runs a close second. (At least I can still play them in my DVD player - too bad they don't sound very good that way. (^_^)) DTS is still too far off in left field to make much of an impact. I like my three 96 kHz/24 bit DVDs, but since the major labels are pushing DVD audio (Warner) and SACD (Sony), I don't expect to get many more than three of 'em. Too bad too, because you don't need extra hardware (read $$$) to play 'em. And I had just replaced my stand alone CD player with my stand alone DVD player, too. Since DVD players can play CDs, I figured I was done buying stuff. How foolish of me... >warning ; prog-alert > >...........which means (oh dear) that all the old 70's quadrophonic tapes can >be dragged out and re-issued in this format. first up are (quelle surprise) >mike oldfield and tangerine dream. Yeah - they've already been issuing some of these quad tapes on DTS CD. Anyone for Wings "Venus and Mars"? Or Moody Blues "Seventh Sojourn"? >so how about a surroundsound "154".......maybe we could get mike thorne in to >do the re-mix. somebody send emi an e-mail.p Oooh - surround sound Wire. I always wondered what minimalist quad would sound like. (^_^) Cheers, Paul *********************************************************** Brain: "Pinky, Are You Pondering What I'm Pondering?" Pinky: "I think so Brain, but can the gummy worms really live in peace with the marshmallow chips?" Paul Pietromonaco Test Engineer - Reflection X WRQ, Inc. E-Mail: paulp@wrq.com *********************************************************** ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #73 ******************************