From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #72 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Friday, March 9 2001 Volume 04 : Number 072 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [idealcopy] napster ["giluz" ] RE: [idealcopy] eco-mozzer (OT) Jarman ["giluz" ] Re: [idealcopy] eco-mozzer (OT) Jarman ["Jerry" ] [idealcopy] Rune Lindbald/Graham Lewis [kevin eden ] [idealcopy] bruce gilbert/pan sonic [michaela_s ] [idealcopy] Off-Topic - An apology to Mr. Albini ["giluz" ] [idealcopy] Re: OFF TOPIC - Scientists v Luddites/other bands/lists ["Sya] RE: [idealcopy] eco-mozzer (OT) Jarman ["giluz" ] Re: [idealcopy] Q+A [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] [idealcopy] Re: OFF TOPIC - Pere Ubu list ["ian jackson" ] [idealcopy] OFF TOPIC - Pere Ubu 2 ["ian jackson" ] [idealcopy] Re: Roos an Ran got Silo on the Brain! ["Syarzhuk Kazachenka"] [idealcopy] OFF TOPIC - 'ART' ["ian jackson" ] RE: [idealcopy] eco-mozzer (OT) Jarman [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Q+A [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Off-Topic - An apology to Mr. Albini [fernando ] [idealcopy] Commerciality vs. angularity [JH3 ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 13:06:52 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] napster > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org > [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of PaulRabjohn@aol.com > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 12:44 AM > To: idealcopy@smoe.org > Subject: [idealcopy] napster > > > well somebody told me today napster has 72 hours to live , which > is a real > shame. The death of Napster is just the beginning of the new era: There's already a new Napster-like programme, whose name I forgot. It already boasts to have more users than Napster. As Robert Wyatt said once: Nothing can stop us - the digital age is something which the law and the big corporations don't really understand. Especially when it comes to the internet, a system that has no centre. They just can't understand it - they're not used to thinking like that. If anyone's interested in the history of the internet, and especially the history of hacking, go to http://www.lysator.liu.se/etexts/hacker/ - the electronic edition of Bruce Sterling's The Hacker Crackdown - probably the first comprehensive book ever written on the phenomenon (it came out in the beginning of the 90's). Sterling gives a comprehensive history, since the invention of the telephone. He had access to both hacker resources (due to his being one of the first [to my opinion THE first] cyberpunk authors, and hence an idol figure for hackers) and to law enforcement resources. This has no direct connection to Napster, but it says a lot about the mentallity of the net vs. the law. And it's a good read, anyway. And it's also free. cheers, giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 13:08:35 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] eco-mozzer (OT) Jarman > i always rated the 3 vids they did with derek jarman as excellent stuff , I didn't know Jarman directed clips for them (I didn't know he directed any clip) - what are they like? I'm quite a fan of SOME of his films (there are some I just can't stand, though). giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 11:18:13 -0000 From: "Jerry" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] eco-mozzer (OT) Jarman Then you'll hate the one he did for the Pet Shop Boys "It's a Sin" as well as back projections for their tours. I like the PSBs but actually, yes, the It's a Sin clip is crap. The Smiths clips were much better. The Queen is Dead is a greatb one j - ----- Original Message ----- From: giluz To: IdealCopy ; Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 11:08 AM Subject: RE: [idealcopy] eco-mozzer (OT) Jarman > > i always rated the 3 vids they did with derek jarman as excellent stuff , > > I didn't know Jarman directed clips for them (I didn't know he directed any > clip) - what are they like? I'm quite a fan of SOME of his films (there are > some I just can't stand, though). > > giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 03:40:43 -0800 (PST) From: kevin eden Subject: [idealcopy] Rune Lindbald/Graham Lewis Further news about Graham Lewis involvement with Rune Lindblad exhibition: February 10 - March 18: Rune Lindblad In 1953, Rune Lindblad composed his first work of "musique concret": Party. With this work, he wrote himself into music history as one of the first composers in the world to employ electronic music, taped music and sampling. Between 1953 and his death in 1991, Lindblad composed over 200 sound works. In the late 1990s, Pogus Productions of New York released a couple of CDs of Lindblad's music, after which his work is being increasingly talked about. In Sweden he remains a relatively unknown figure. Fdrgfabriken have collaborated with Firework Editions in producing an LP, a CD and a booklet. As well as two compositions by Lindblad, the LP and CD include a series of tributes to Rune Lindblad by different musicians and composers. Parts of Lindblad's sound works have been used in new compositions. The contributors are: CD: Kent Tankred , Leif Elggren , Edvard Graham Lewis , B J Nilsen , CM von Hausswolff LP: Jean Louis Huhta , Brommage Dub The booklet contains a recent text by Magnus Haglund, a Gothenburg music critic. CD/LP/booklet, 200 SEK Please contact Catti Lindahl for order or call +46-8-645 26 90 Fdrgfabriken Lvvholmsbrinken 1 S - 117 43 Stockholm SWEDEN ===== kevin eden wmo, po box 112, stockport, cheshire, sk3 9fd, uk wmouk@yahoo.com http://wiremailorder.com/ "dreams that money can buy" Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 13:14:10 +0100 (CET) From: michaela_s Subject: [idealcopy] bruce gilbert/pan sonic anyone heard about the bruce gilbert/pan sonic cooperation? m ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 14:19:50 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: [idealcopy] Off-Topic - An apology to Mr. Albini Just wanted to end the last vinyl/CD debate with a kind of apology. I admit that most of my remarks concerning Albini's preference of vinyl to CD was due to ignorance. I don't know any of his work, so I just assumed this preference was the sort of lo-fi snobish attitude which just makes it hard on his fans. It seems that I was wrong. I take your word for it that Albini's stuff does sound better on vinyl, because of the sort of music he plays and the limitations of the current digital formats. As for lo-fi, I've got no objection to it - quite the opposite - I'm making lo-fi music myself, and I definitely think that post-production work today messes too much with the tiniest fractions of details. It's just that it's a hype thing, and when that happens people often go for things just because they're hype, and not because they actually believe in them or because they're really necessary. cheers, giuz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 07:40:59 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: RE: [idealcopy] eco-mozzer (OT) Jarman << > i always rated the 3 vids they did with derek jarman as excellent stuff , I didn't know Jarman directed clips for them (I didn't know he directed any clip) - what are they like? I'm quite a fan of SOME of his films (there are some I just can't stand, though). //// the 3 he did for the smiths to form a sort of mini-movie were the queen is dead/panic/there is a light. lots of whirling fast-cut images that go really well with the songs. there's also a promo for "ask" in similar style. i loved jubilee. but some of his later stuff really plodded. and "blue" was not the most gripping movie ever (90 minutes of a solid blue screen with a soundtrack). p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 12:41:03 -0000 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] OFF TOPIC - XTC, some personal thoughts found this thread fairly interesting, as i'm old enough to have seen XTC very early on (White Music and G02 tours).the thing that i really liked about them at the time was the high energy level, but after 'Drums & Wires' they started to lose me (couldn't stand most of Colin Moulding's songs anyway), but i stuck with them until i heard 'Skylarking' which really did stop me bothering anymore! curious Wire fans unfamiliar with their early stuff should at least check out G02, certainly their most credible lp IMO, which initially came with a kind of dub 12", GO+, (i'm not sure if it's included with the cd these days) which was an early introduction, for me, to remixing/studio manipulation (outside of jamaican dub-plates), haven't heard it in a while, so it may sound pretty naive these days... the bracketing thing with Wire, JD, Magazine, doesn't wash with me. XTC were obviously going to be around a long time, by which i mean that they were 'proper musicians', technically very good, (though the Beatles influence didn't pop up till later on). i remember a story about Terry Chambers being able to go into the studio, without the rest of the band, and lay down all the drum tracks beat-perfect, and then just piss off to the pub while the rest of them did the hard work!!! finally, i think that old fans who have stuck with them up to the present, would probably admit that they tend towards the poppy-end of stuff in general, so i'm back to that old 'it's all down to personal taste' cliche again! ooooohhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 05:13:17 -0800 (PST) From: Wireviews Subject: [idealcopy] Q+A/Silo/Napster "Back in the 80's, rawk critics (and label execs) constantly said the same thing about all three of these bands - "If they just tried to write a hit single once in a while, they'd be huge, but they have too much artistic integrity for that," etc. etc." It's funny, really, because I've always thought that was bullshit. Just because Wire weren't caught up in the corporate shenanigans that most bands were, that doesn't mean what they were doing was a million miles away from what could be a "hit single". The ingredients for "hit" were there in Outdoor Miner, Eardum Buzz, Ahead, So and Slow, etc... it's just because they weren't U2, the press rarely deigned to notice them... Of course, Mr. Hype Machine probably didn't help with Miner... "Craig at Wireviews tells me that Bruce and Graham are both Silo fans." Bruce saw Silo at Union Chapel, although didn't make an appearance in the bar, and both "Roos-an-Ran" saw them in the 'States. I believe positive noises were made at both occassions. Off the top of my head, I'd also imagine that B&G would probably like Symptoms, too. "well somebody told me today napster has 72 hours to live , which is a real shame." It's screwed, especially now everyone has turned into a shark, wanting a taste of the dying whale (the Grammy lawsuit being the most absurd). However, I imagine something else will emerge from the ashes in the not-too-distant. C ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. Snub.Comms: http://welcome.to/snub Veer Audio: http://listen.to/veer - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 08:11:05 -0500 From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: OFF TOPIC - Scientists v Luddites/other bands/lists >i've been tempted to join either Guided By Voices or the Fall's lists >...maybe even Pere Ubu's... Is there one? I know there is a alt.fan.pere-ubu, but never heard of a list. Hey, maybe I should start one... Syarzhuk Be healthy, stay wealthy... Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://www.belmusic.net _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 15:39:29 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] eco-mozzer (OT) Jarman > i loved jubilee. but some of his later stuff really plodded. and > "blue" was not the most gripping movie ever (90 minutes of a > solid blue screen with a soundtrack). p Frankly I thought Jubilee was quite disgusting, as well as Sebastian. I really liked his adaptaion of the Tempest (starring the long-time list favourite Toyah Wilcox), as well as Caravagio and Witgenstein. Never had a chance to "watch" Blue, though. I've got a friend who used to work at the BBC, and they were just doing a series of documentary films on British directors. Unfortunately, the two first directors they started with died during the shooting (Jarman and Lindsay Anderson). When they later called Theresa Russel, Nicolas Roeg's wife, she didn't want anything to do with them, 'cause she was frightened her husband might die during the shooting as well. I guess that's why Mr. Roeg is still alive today (mmm, he is, right?) giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 08:45:03 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Q+A On Thu, 8 Mar 2001 PaulRabjohn@aol.com wrote: > "life begins at > the > >hop"? to me that's just a new wave ditty > > Outdoor Miner, anyone? > ///// well shoot me down in flames if you will , but to me OM has some > good , interesting lyrics and LBATH is just a really cliched pop song. > "there's c-c-c-cola on tap" indeed.p I think both songs are great - both take aspects of "cliched pop songs" (which, in case you haven't noticed, have not actually been popular for about 20 years now) and subvert others. The music in both cases is pretty straightforward (although I like the way the XTC track gains some tension by repeating that opening lick invaryingly regardless of the underlying chords), but while Wire use unusual lyrics for a pop song, XTC uses the form for a light parody of scene-making ("back next week with another ridiculous tie-knot," for example) and lameness (that "c-c-c-cola": which also strikes me as both a reference to the Kinks' "Lola" and to the dumbass BBC rule about brand names: by stuttering, Moulding can almost say "Coca-Cola" but doesn't). Finally, "experimentation" doesn't mean anything without a ground or norm to experiment against. That works both inside and outside of any given track (contrast both to other tracks and to the more coherenet, normal aspects of the "experimental" track). Fact is, in comparison with, say, 20th century avant garde music, Wire is very conventional indeed. That's not a putdown, just a statement of fact. As for me, I think they're better off for that fact. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::When the only tool you have is an interociter, you tend to treat ::everything as if it were a fourth-order nanodimensional sub-quantum ::temporo-spatial anomaly. __Crow T. Maslow__ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 15:02:51 -0000 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: OFF TOPIC - Pere Ubu list syarzhuk replied to :- >>i've been tempted to join either Guided By Voices or the Fall's >>lists...maybe even Pere Ubu's... with :- >Is there one? I know there is a alt.fan.pere-ubu, but never heard of a >list. >Hey, maybe I should start one... sorry people, i seem to have caused some confusion here... i presumed there WAS a pere ubu/david thomas mailing list, the attraction being, that it might be as varied as the ideal copy. so syarzhuk...maybe you should! apologies and thanks, ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 15:21:09 -0000 From: "Stephen Jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Q+A >"life begins at >the >>hop"? to me that's just a new wave ditty > >Outdoor Miner, anyone? > >///// well shoot me down in flames if you will , but to me OM has some good , interesting lyrics and LBATH is just a really cliched pop song. "there's c-c-c-cola on tap" indeed.p "he lies on his side is he trying to hide in fact it's the earth since he's known since birth" is hardly poetry is it?!!! Steve. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ They use the head and not the fist. - -- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 15:32:33 -0000 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] OFF TOPIC - Pere Ubu 2 just had a quick look at the UBU PROJEX home page quote from page :- Other Items of Interest We get enough odd but interesting notes thru the email that it's probably time to start a page but for now we'll roll them in with Accusations of Paranoia. ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:37:05 -0600 From: "Ciscon, Ray" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Q+A Stephen wrote: > >Outdoor Miner, anyone? > > > >///// well shoot me down in flames if you will , but to me > OM has some good > , interesting lyrics and LBATH is just a really cliched pop > song. "there's > c-c-c-cola on tap" indeed.p > > "he lies on his side is he trying to hide in fact it's the > earth since he's > known since birth" is hardly poetry is it?!!! > Poetry, like all art, is in the eye of the beholder. In context with it's comparison to XTC, it certainly isn't treacly pop, which XTC have been known to descend into occasionally. I don't care if it's not poetry. I may not know art, but I know what I like... and I really like 'Outdoor Miner'! Cheers, Ray ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 11:27:05 -0500 From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Roos an Ran got Silo on the Brain! Graeme Rowland wrote: >Bruce & Graham both collaborated with Pan Sonic. Ok, Bruce+Pan Sonic=IBM, but what is the Graham's collaboration? Syarzhuk Be healthy, stay wealthy... Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://www.belmusic.net _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 16:31:19 -0000 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] OFF TOPIC - 'ART' Ray wrote:- I don't care if it's not poetry. I may not know art, but I know what I like... and I really like 'Outdoor Miner'! or to quote Monty Burns... 'I may not know much about art, but i know what i hate'. ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 11:55:52 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: RE: [idealcopy] eco-mozzer (OT) Jarman Frankly I thought Jubilee was quite disgusting, as well as Sebastian. ///// hey maaan , that was punk rock ! and as an unrepentant antfan of the era i still have a real soft spot for those plastic surgery / deutscher girls clips. not to mention toyah's moment of glory , downhill all the way after that :-) Never had a chance to "watch" Blue, though. //// there's a funny momus track on it called (ahem) "lesbian cocksucker blues" , that's probably the "highlight". I've got a friend who used to work at the BBC, and they were just doing a series of documentary films on British directors. Unfortunately, the two first directors they started with died during the shooting (Jarman and Lindsay Anderson). When they later called Theresa Russel, Nicolas Roeg's wife, she didn't want anything to do with them, 'cause she was frightened her husband might die during the shooting as well. I guess that's why Mr. Roeg is still alive today (mmm, he is, right?) ///// i will resist the temptation to crack an obvious joke about getting these guy's round michael winner's place then.p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 12:01:52 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Q+A >///// well shoot me down in flames if you will , but to me OM has some good , interesting lyrics and LBATH is just a really cliched pop song. "there's c-c-c-cola on tap" indeed.p "he lies on his side is he trying to hide in fact it's the earth since he's known since birth" is hardly poetry is it?!!! ////// what i was trying to say was that it wasn't a typical pop song with typical lyrics , not that it was shelley or keats or something. well maybe mr moulding was being highly ironic , but i never took it to be that way at all. p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 09:45:07 -0800 From: fernando Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Off-Topic - An apology to Mr. Albini At 02:19 PM 3/8/01 +0200, giluz wrote: >Just wanted to end the last vinyl/CD debate with a kind of apology. I admit >that most of my remarks concerning Albini's preference of vinyl to CD was >due to ignorance. I don't know any of his work, so I just assumed this >preference was the sort of lo-fi snobish attitude which just makes it hard >on his fans. It seems that I was wrong. I take your word for it that >Albini's stuff does sound better on vinyl, because of the sort of music he >plays and the limitations of the current digital formats. My thought would be not the limitations of the digital format, which are fewer compared to the vinyl realm, but that the distortions introduced by vinyl makes his music more appealing... that would make sense to me... just like you put the guitar through non-linear amps to make distortions... the vinyl has another appealing effect... the so-called "warmth"... but just because it is appealing to our ears, it does not mean that the digital has some limitations -- I swear that if someone could sell a digital box that takes the digital signal from a CD player, and makes the same kind of limitations that vinyl has... it would sell very well to those raised on vinyl! I had the Terraform CD for a bit, based on the recommendation of someone in the past... yesterday, I got the AT ACTION PARK album (found it used, to boot), and it is quite good! Thanks to the staunch recommendation as the best Shellac album... and yes, I can see how it would sound nicer on vinyl... especially with the care for mastering that Albini gives it. - -fernando ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:49:07 -0800 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Off-Topic - An apology to Mr. Albini > I swear that if someone could sell a digital box that > takes the digital signal from a CD player, and makes the same kind of > limitations that vinyl has... it would sell very well to those raised on vinyl! > Bob Carver takes the honors. He took a high end record player, one of his Carver CD players, a special "transform box" he cooked up, tied their outputs together on an oscillioscope, found a matching vinyl and CD release and tuned the CD player to sound like the record. It really didn't work very well, although numerically, it did match the vinyl exactly. It just didn't sound right. I think he even offered the player for sale as a "natural sounding" player or something like that, but it didn't sell very well. Other attempts at this were better - he'd been doing this to make his transistor amps sound like famous tube amps - and those were quite good. The main problem as I saw it was that you really got the worst of both worlds this way - the problems inherent in vinyl plus the problems inherent in digital. Yeesh! (^_^) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 13:06:34 -0800 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Off-Topic - An apology to Mr. Albini >Just wanted to end the last vinyl/CD debate with a kind of apology. Hi giluz, I don't think you need to make an apology. I found the e-mail thread quite interesting. Hopefully, we all got a chance to think about the music we listen to, and how we perceive it, etc. And, hopefully, my "physics lectures" weren't *too* boring. (^_^) It's only by continuing to talk about this stuff that we can learn anything about it. I found some of the comments very insightful, myself. For instance, you asked if any CDs sound better that their vinyl counterparts. I found an answer: Steely Dan. Check out these two references: http://www.steelydan.com/dennys3.html http://www.steelydan.com/discog.2.html The executive summary? The CD of Katy Lied sounds much better than the vinyl due to the use of condensor microphones placed too close to the cymbals. Vinyl couldn't be cut to reproduce this sound correctly. Also, the Grammy award winner Two Against Nature wouldn't make a good vinyl record - there's basically too much digital in it, and the vinyl would sound like a poor copy of the CD. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 21:14:52 -0000 From: "Stephen Jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Q+A >////// what i was trying to say was that it wasn't a typical pop song with typical lyrics and you were also saying that LBATH was a really cliched pop song.... And I was saying that the chorus of 'Outdoor Miner' is no better or worse, lyrically. > not that it was shelley or keats or something. well maybe mr moulding was being highly ironic , but i never took it to be that way at all. Sure. And I'm not knocking a song as good as Outdoor Miner...but likewise I think a song about the 'end of innocence' and nostalgia for those halcyon days on experimental snogging with some girl at a school or youth club disco is not typical of yer average pop song. No, wait a minute, it is. But Gregory's guitar playing, the trademark 'oo-wa-ooos' *and* the lyric make "Life begins..." a great song (IMO of course) Anyway, I guess we should move on now! Steve. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ They use the head and not the fist. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 00:30:20 -0600 From: JH3 Subject: [idealcopy] Commerciality vs. angularity >>"Back in the 80's, rawk critics (and label execs) >>constantly said the same thing about all three of >>these bands - "If they just tried to write a hit >>single once in a while, they'd be huge, but they have >>too much artistic integrity for that," etc. etc." >It's funny, really, because I've always thought that >was bullshit. Just because Wire weren't caught up in >the corporate shenanigans that most bands were, that >doesn't mean what they were doing was a million miles >away from what could be a "hit single". Well, to some extent, I was exaggerating the manufactured quote above, obviously. The truth is more complicated, since not all music critics are guilty of not knowing what they're talking/writing about. A lot of them probably wanted to say "These guys are fantastic, and if there were any justice in the world they'd be far bigger than U2 or the Police, but alas, the listening public are a bunch of easily-led morons." But saying that is problematic when those same morons are the ones buying the magazines and thus helping to pay your wages. OTOH, I think in a lot of cases, commercial success for a band is more a matter of having a charismatic lead singer who has a nice voice and appeals to the opposite sex than anything else... Oops, there I go, easily-led- moron-bashing again! And just for the sake of blathering on, I once thought (and still do, to some extent) that critics used the word "angular" in reviews of Wire albums simply because they assumed nobody would understand what the phrase "staccato guitar riffs" meant. Both XTC and Wire did many songs with staccato guitar riffs. The fact that "Practice Makes Perfect" is the first song on "Chairs Missing," and "I Should Have Known Better" is the first song on 154, sort of caused me to assume that the people who were comparing the two bands musically had heard *only* those leadoff tracks before thinking, "yeah, I've got these guys pegged" and then moving on to the next record in the review pile. But after the word like "angular" gets used on a band a few times, it becomes a "tag," a label, and everybody uses it because they assume that's just the accepted way of describing them. (XTC had that problem with both "quirky" and "clever.") You can't necessarily blame the critics for this, because they're just trying to convey the concept as efficiently as possible. But that doesn't necessarily make it less annoying to the hard-core fans like me... But I guess I'm stating the obvious? I think I'll stop now, too! John "Zzzzzz" Hedges ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #72 ******************************