From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #60 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Monday, February 26 2001 Volume 04 : Number 060 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [idealcopy] The The (OT) ["giluz" ] RE: [idealcopy]OT - King Crimson ["giluz" ] [idealcopy] ex-Minimal Compact members ["giluz" ] Re: [idealcopy] The The (OT) [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] RE: [idealcopy] The The (OT) ["giluz" ] [idealcopy] Things are happening in Manchester! [=?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20] RE: [idealcopy] The The (OT) [Aaron Mandel ] Re: [idealcopy] The The (OT) [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] RE: [idealcopy]OT - King Crimson [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] [idealcopy] He Said - Could You ["giluz" ] Re: [idealcopy] He Said - Could You [eric719@webtv.net (Eric Strang)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 12:40:20 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] The The (OT) > I had no idea who The The were, and took there CD from the > library to get a > feeling. It was "Mind Bomb" with Marr on guitar, and I quite like it. I > dunno though if he was anything more than just a session muso there. Never really understood the fuss over The The during the 80's. After Matt Johnson's excellent first album at 4AD (was it called Burning Blue Soul or somethig like that? i forgot), The The made some nice pop songs alongside the usual mediocre crap, but not much more than that. Soul Mining had some nice songs and is very nice if you wanna get into 80's nostalgia, but not much more than that. It's a part of its times but never gets beyond that, not the same as, let's say, the Ideal Copy is part of its times but also has much more to it. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 12:40:37 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy]OT - King Crimson > There's a big Prog feature in the new issue of Mojo magazine, which cites > Larks Tongues in Aspic as one of the great prog albums. Probably the best > starting place. But I don't hold out much hope. Greg Lake is not > allowed in > the house. Larks' Tongues In Aspic's a great album, but I wouldn't start with it. Actually, I don't know if I would have liked it if I were introduced to it today. I probably would have dismissed it as another 70's pretentious prog thing. Red, on the other hand's the perfect KC introduction. As much as I like KC I would have been satisfied even if that was the only album ever released by them. The combination of prog rock, metal and funk sounds so late 80's (except for the prog rock, that is) that it's amazing it's been released in 1975. A band at its full force, where even when they do dwell deeply into a sort of 70's prog rock ballad like Starless, they go out the other end with one of the greatest guitar solos ever - oh god - I made myself blush, never thought I'd ever write something like that. I'm really not into guitar solos, especially not 70's guitar solos made by prog rock bands, but this one's certainly an exception. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 13:10:57 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: [idealcopy] ex-Minimal Compact members To continue what I wrote about Minimal Compact guitarists, here's a real audio broadcast of Ghosts Can't Run Away, from their Crammed Foreign Affair album, East On Fire (I'm not sure what year this was on, probably 1988-1989): http://www.contel.co.il/berry/sound/goast.ra giluz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 06:26:31 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The The (OT) In a message dated 25/02/01 10:46:41 GMT Standard Time, giluz@nettalk.com writes: > Never really understood the fuss over The The during the 80's. After Matt > Johnson's excellent first album at 4AD (was it called Burning Blue Soul or > somethig like that? i forgot), The The made some nice pop songs alongside > the usual mediocre crap, but not much more than that. Soul Mining had some > nice songs and is very nice if you wanna get into 80's nostalgia, but not > much more than that. ///// funnily enough mtv2 showed the vid for "heartland" this morning. i think you have to look at soul mining/infected in the context of the times ; they were fairly glossy productions which made them appeal to pop kids , but he sneaked in some quite stinging anti-thatcher lyrics and got it in the top 20 and played on the radio. which for an "indie" act in the mid-80's was quite an achievement. i recall the dj on the BRMB morning show (shit birmingham local radio) ripping off "heartland" during the "51st state" fadeout as he figured what was being said. but after mind bomb everyone seemed to lose interest , and stuff like "hanky panky" got seen as a bit of a joke. never heard that recent album but hard to see where he could go to , basically he's just been refining the same sound since soul mining and never seems to want to do much different.p ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 16:29:06 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] The The (OT) > 20 and played on the radio. which for an "indie" act in the mid-80's was > quite an achievement. This is all very nice, but nothing close to the promise Johnson showed in Burning Blue Soul. Besides, it would have been much more of an achievement if it did actually have "indie" content and not just be an indie act. Wasn't Kylie Minogue (or however you spell her name, some details are really much too expandable for me to remember) or Jason Donovan also signed to an independent record label? No-one considered their no.1's as being "indie achievements". But when someone like Matt Johnson, who had an "authentic" independent background releases pop songs that wouldn't shame the biggest record labels, he's treated differently. Wasn't Matt Johnson signed to epic, a very non-independent label, by the way? giluz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 14:45:10 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Things are happening in Manchester! A few weeks back Giluz expressed surprise at Tim's assertion that not much interesting was happening in the music night vein in Manchester UK. Anyone who wants the lowdown on what *is* going on in Manchester should check this out: http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine/aLECTRO.htm I've also added an interview with Philip Jeck and a review of Otomo Yoshihide's 'Japanorama' to Cracked Machine. Bruce Gilbert is mentioned in the Philip Jeck interview, and I'd advise anyone who likes Bruce's solo recordings to give Philip's 'Surf' CD (Touch) a listen! http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine/jeck.htm Deconstruct & Disobey! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine webzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 12:17:56 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: RE: [idealcopy] The The (OT) On Sun, 25 Feb 2001, giluz wrote: > The The made some nice pop songs alongside the usual mediocre crap, > but not much more than that. Soul Mining had some nice songs and is > very nice if you wanna get into 80's nostalgia, but not much more than > that. It's a part of its times but never gets beyond that, I disagree. Soul Mining is still one of my favorite albums; it's always seemed to me like Johnson managed to do what bands like the Blue Nile were lauded for doing, except that Blue Nile and the like were drawing on somewhat more obvious ways to create an expansive, lonely sound, while Soul Mining seems to have been put together with someone else's tools. It meant a lot to me in high school, so that probably biases me a bit, but then, I can't stand a lot of the other things I listened to in high school now. a ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 13:46:04 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The The (OT) > 20 and played on the radio. which for an "indie" act in the mid-80's was > quite an achievement. This is all very nice, but nothing close to the promise Johnson showed in Burning Blue Soul. Besides, it would have been much more of an achievement if it did actually have "indie" content and not just be an indie act. Wasn't Kylie Minogue (or however you spell her name, some details are really much too expandable for me to remember) or Jason Donovan also signed to an independent record label? No-one considered their no.1's as being "indie achievements". //////// well MJ came from an indie background and i think at the time he would have been considered an "indie" act (stylistically , does it matter who your distributor is ?). soul mining/infected were pretty credible at the time. is soul mining so different to BBS? just seems like a logical progression to me. > > Wasn't Matt Johnson signed to epic, a very non-independent label, by the > way? > > /////// some bizarre thru epic. i think a label like SB gave artists a lot > more control than many indies. and a load more money to make the records > with.p ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 15:16:54 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: RE: [idealcopy]OT - King Crimson On Sun, 25 Feb 2001, giluz wrote: > thing. Red, on the other hand's the perfect KC introduction. As much as I > like KC I would have been satisfied even if that was the only album ever > released by them. The combination of prog rock, metal and funk sounds so > late 80's (except for the prog rock, that is) that it's amazing it's been > released in 1975. Funk? I don't hear it, but okay... A band at its full force, where even when they do dwell > deeply into a sort of 70's prog rock ballad like Starless, they go out the > other end with one of the greatest guitar solos ever - oh god - I made > myself blush, never thought I'd ever write something like that. I'm really > not into guitar solos, especially not 70's guitar solos made by prog rock > bands, but this one's certainly an exception. That may be because the solo in question works much less by flinging a zillion notes around like so much monkey crap and more by a constant build of texture and intensity. Really, it's mostly just a big scale (if you're talking about the extended coda to that song) - but the way it builds makes it more than just a guitar solo (the solo isolated from the rest of the track wouldn't work anywhere near as well). - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::beliefs are ideas going bald:: __Francis Picabia__ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:04:52 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] The The (OT) Aaron Mandel wrote: > On Sun, 25 Feb 2001, giluz wrote: > > > The The made some nice pop songs alongside the usual mediocre crap, > > but not much more than that. Soul Mining had some nice songs and is > > very nice if you wanna get into 80's nostalgia, but not much more than > > that. It's a part of its times but never gets beyond that, > > I disagree. Soul Mining is still one of my favorite albums; it's always > seemed to me like Johnson managed to do what bands like the Blue Nile were > lauded for doing, except that Blue Nile and the like were drawing on > somewhat more obvious ways to create an expansive, lonely sound, while > Soul Mining seems to have been put together with someone else's tools. > > It meant a lot to me in high school, so that probably biases me a bit, but > then, I can't stand a lot of the other things I listened to in high > school now. It meant a lot to me in highschool as well, but some things meant much more and most of them still mean a lot to me. The The's stuff was nice enough pop, but not good enough so that it would remain more than that. I've got no objection to pop, when it's done right. I even think that creating a pop masterpiece is much harder than doing something experimental. Maybe that's why not any good pop song gets to enter my best-list. The The's stuff wasn't that good, especially considering Burning Blue Soul, which showed much more promise. PaulRabjohn wrote: (stylistically , does it matter who your distributor is ?). soul mining/infected were pretty credible at the time. is soul mining so different to BBS? just seems like a logical progression to me. /////// I wouldn't say logical. You could certainly hear it's the same singer/songwriter, yeah. The main difference was in the attitude taken towards doing the job, which affected the production, the arrangements and the sound of the whole thing. On the other hand, I haven't listened to BBS for almost 20 years now (and am not in a position to do so now, i.e. lost my copy), so these could all be just the extreme viewpoints of a teenager, though I have to admit I had much more respect and admiration towards The The at the time than I do now. cheers, giluz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:07:56 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: [idealcopy] He Said - Could You I've been acquainting myself with He Said's Take Care, when I found out that Could You was a song that I knew. Was this a single, back in the 80's? I really knew it quite well, but never knew it had any relation to Wire, though. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 01:21:45 -0800 (PST) From: eric719@webtv.net (Eric Strang) Subject: Re: [idealcopy] He Said - Could You According to "Everybody Loves A History', it was released as a single in 1988 along with He Said:She Said. Eric ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #60 ******************************