From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #55 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, February 21 2001 Volume 04 : Number 055 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: AW: [idealcopy] OT - Misc. Bands Trivia ["giluz" ] [idealcopy] OT: Don de Lillo [John Roberts ] [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V4 #54 [Ian Calder ] AW: [idealcopy] OT - Misc. Bands Trivia [Woerner Frank ] [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V4 #54 [Michael Flaherty ] RE: [idealcopy] vic gig [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] RE: [idealcopy] Venice Biennale ["giluz" ] [idealcopy] Soli and More TV [=?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:36:31 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: AW: [idealcopy] OT - Misc. Bands Trivia > I saw RM the first time in 1973 if I remember right. It > was after their first album but before the second. It was > in Nuernberg/Bavaria and me and my friends were backstage > after the show where I stole a feather from Eno's jacket - > that was the jacket you can see on the inner sleeve of > the second RM album. Whoa, cool!!! Do you still have it? Do you realise how much this is worth? This feather is made of serious rock myth stuff. And a feather is so much more than the usual song list. I am deeply impressed (no kidding). cheers, giluz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 03:25:10 -0800 (PST) From: John Roberts Subject: [idealcopy] OT: Don de Lillo > Quote: Waves and radiation. > First chapter Don de Lillo's White Noise. > I am starting now. Excellent novel. I've read a few of his now. Libra, Mao II and The Names I liked a lot too. On topic: there's a US gatefold version of Bell Is A Cup on that Vinyltap website. Anyone care to elaborate on what the sleeve looks like? John Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:47:27 +0000 From: Ian Calder Subject: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V4 #54 >> so which wire/roxy gig did you see before? tell us the tale ; >> i'd love to have seen one of those gigs. how did wire go >> down........ ?p > >snip< > >The second time I saw RM was in Erlangen/Bavaria. The opening >act was Wire. I already had all available Wire records at >the time but I cannot remember if I liked the show. > >The year might have been ... uhmm ... 1977 or 1978 or so ... >I cannot remember exactly. > >Frank from Bavaria It was spring 1979 when Wire supported Roxy. Somewhere I have a Wire interview from the NME that was done mid-tour where Wire commented on the differences between the two acts and pondered over how Wire might turn out in the future by flattening out their idiosyncrasies and given the music industry machinery to back them up - a la Roxy at that time (must have been the 'Manifesto' period). I think you could even see the late 79 (Jeanetta Cochran (spelling?) ) and early 1980 (Electric Ballroom) gigs as a reaction to their experiences of the Roxy support slot perhaps. Ian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 13:53:28 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Question - Minimal Compact ex-members > He also mentioned that two Minimal Compact artists went up back > to Israel and > becoming stars. Does someone know them? Giluz maybe? Minimal Compact members: Malka we all know of ; Sami Birnbach, the singer, is now DJ Morpheus, and you can read about him in Crammed's site. Go and see him play if you have the chance, 'cause he's certainly worth it. Max franken, the drummer (the only non-Israeli in the group) is not doing music, as far as I know. Now, the two that are left are Berry Sakharof and Rami Fortis, the two guitarists. Fortis actually only joined the band during the recording of their second album, Deadly Weapons, in 1984 (though he is credited as being an almost member on their first mini LP). Fortis was certainly the most important Israeli musician of the 80's - one of the first to start doing punk/new wave related stuff in a country where rock music was completely off-mainstream. During the years he's been to Minimal, his cult status in Israel only got bigger. After Minimal's breakup Fortis & Sakharof made an album for crammed as Foreign Affair. They later returned to Israel to do an album in Hebrew. I guess they didn't think it would have any commercial success, but surprisingly it did. Following that they returned to Israel, formed a band, and started touring and making records, none of which were better than "Tales from the box", the 1st one. However, they did quite well commercially. For me it was quite weird to see them that popular - the musical establishment has ignored them for years - Minimal Compact were not popular or famous in israel at all, because of Israel's musical conservatism. Their popularity was also what, I believe, led an Israeli record label to ask Malka to make Rosh Balata (which sold more copies outside Israel, when it eventually came out). In the early 90's Fortis & Sakharof split and each started making their own solo albums. Fortis formed a new band, consisted mainly of young musicians, which brought his music quite up to date. they released one superb album and another one which was less good but still had some excellent songs. They had moderate success. Sakharof's second solo album was maybe the 1st Israeli album that combined traditional rock ideas with the then new sampling techniques of electronic music. Quite ahead of its time in terms of sound and arrangement, it was a commercial flop, but I consider it as one of the best and most important Israeli albums ever, and one of my own favourites. It took a few years of releasing uncompromising material for Sakharof to be accepted as a musician in his own right and not just as a sidekick to Fortis (Fortis was always the stage persona, the one with the charisma, while Sakharof used to hide behind his guitar/keyboards. This changed slightly as time progressed and Sakharof got more confident on stage). Funnily enough, Fortis, who hasn't done much in the last few years, is now almost forgotten while Sakharof's career is now at its commercial peak. One of the only Israeli artists that I have much respect and admiration for, whose albums are always good and seems to get better the more you listen to them, who didn't sell out to become popular and keeps making great music even after he became popular. The sad thing about it is, that even though Fortis/Sakharof are considered as one of Israel's most important musicians, Minimal Compact is even less famous now than it's been in the 80's. It is no small thing for a Israeli band to have moderate success in Europe. It is no small thing for a Israeli band to do so and also make good music on the side. The production standards brought to Israel by Fortis/Sakharof were unparallelled by what's been here before, and influenced the whole industry, and that is just one aspect of that band's importance to israeli music and to a whole new generation of musicians that grew up in the 80's (most of them suck, though). Don't hesitate to ask any other question if you want. cheers, giluz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 04:16:30 -0800 (PST) From: Wireviews Subject: [idealcopy] Venice Biennale " Colin announced that Wire have posibilities to perform on the Venice Biennale and would be the second band ever. Does someone know who was the first? " Pulp, apparently. C ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. Snub.Comms: http://welcome.to/snub Veer Audio: http://listen.to/veer - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 13:21:11 +0100 From: Woerner Frank Subject: AW: [idealcopy] OT - Misc. Bands Trivia > -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: giluz [mailto:giluz@nettalk.com] > Gesendet: Dienstag, 20. Februar 2001 10:37 > An: IdealCopy; Woerner Frank > Betreff: RE: AW: [idealcopy] OT - Misc. Bands Trivia > > > > I saw RM the first time in 1973 if I remember right. It > > was after their first album but before the second. It was > > in Nuernberg/Bavaria and me and my friends were backstage > > after the show where I stole a feather from Eno's jacket - > > that was the jacket you can see on the inner sleeve of > > the second RM album. > > Whoa, cool!!! Do you still have it? Do you realise how much > this is worth? Wanna buy it ...??? ... ;-)) > This feather is made of serious rock myth stuff. And a > feather is so much > more than the usual song list. I am deeply impressed (no kidding). I always tried to go backstage before or after any concert at that time. And if the band doing the show included a female musician I at least tried to "steal" a kiss. I had success with Poly Styrene, Pauline Murray, etc. Unkissable were Siouxsie, the Slits, the Bangles, Dolly Parton ( just kidding ... ) etc. An interesting experience was an after-show pub-tour with Rod Stewart and Ronnie Wood on Oct 6th in 1974. I was deeply impressed how easy this thing with those groupies was/is ... just snap your fingers and SCORE ... Most funny musician I met was Ian Dury ... throwing candies at the audience during the whole show ... Hit me with your rhythm candy HIT ME, HIT ME Sadly he died a few months ago. Still living here in Nuernberg is Kevin Coyne but I wouldn't call him Mr. NiceGuy, very unfriendly musician. Enough trivia for today. Frank from Bavaria ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 14:11:22 -0000 From: "Jerry" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Question - Minimal Compact ex-members > Don't hesitate to ask any other question if you want. Yeah, what were they like and is any of the solo dtuff any good? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 08:39:57 -0600 From: "dMc" Subject: [idealcopy] Fw: translation First - IMHO Der Hatten Baby is the apex of creative acheivment. If you feel the need for translation : http://www.geocities.com/pommesrotweissx/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:51:54 -0600 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V4 #54 >In my opinion it occupies a honorary third position (after "Second Edition" >and "Live in Tokyo") >///////////// " live in tokyo" ; you're joking! have you heard 1st edition? LIT is the one he did with a gang of session musos as a joke , i sufferred a uk gig on that tour. sorry but i rate that as a real turkey.p I "kind of like" Live in Tokyo, but still ... 1st ed. Flowers of R., Commercial Zone ... not even close. Also: The new Roxy will include only Bryan, Phil, and Andy (just like last time) from the original band. Expect lots of songs from Avalon. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 17:56:27 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Question - Minimal Compact ex-members > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org > [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Jerry > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 4:11 PM > To: IdealCopy > Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Question - Minimal Compact ex-members > > > > Don't hesitate to ask any other question if you want. > > Yeah, what were they like and is any of the solo dtuff any good? Most of it's brilliant. If you're into Minimal Compact and like the way Fortis/Sakharof play, you'd probably like their solo stuff. Fortis is the guy who sang lead vocals on Minimal's I Imagine - he's known more as a singer and a great performer and less as a guitarist (though I tremendously like his guitar work). Sakharof's guitar playing is quite unique with its heavily influenced mid-eastern riffs and rhythm guitar-playing. Foreign Affair's East On Fire, released on Crammed Disks is a very good place to start - take Minimal Compact's guitar work, add gibberish lyrics (in most songs. Malka contributed the lyrics to one of the more coherent songs), electronics and a great sense of fun and play. Tales From The Box, their first album in Hebrew, is sort of the same, though less extreme because it was directed to Israeli audience. The "poppy" attitude of this album and the success it recieved was the basis for the format of their next 3-4 albums together, which weren't as good as the first one. Of their solo albums I'd recommend Fortis' first album after they split, which is heavier and less poppy than what he did before - a sort of return to form, containing elements of grunge with an excellent backing band and some brilliant songs. Of Sakharof's input I'd have to say that it's quite flawless - his 2nd album, the one I mentioned had lots of electronics in it, is a masterpiece. Fortis' first album in Hebrew was actually released before Minimal formed, in the late 70's and is now considered a classic. What was then considered as punk turns out to be plain good old rock n'roll. Nice tunes, great lyrics (by Minimal's Samy birnbach) and great performance from Fortis himself. I don't think this album can be understood outside of the Israeli musical scene context, though. As you've probably already realised, these guys are my ultimate Israeli musicians idols, one of the only ones that did stuff that was good enough to be compared to stuff done outside Israel. Seeing Fortis perform for the first time in 1984-5 with Minimal Compact actually changed my life - I was completely amazed by the way he could make the music flaw through him, pass it on to the audience, and still sometimes be completely tone-deaf and unmusical (conventionally, that is). From time to time, when Minimal took a break, they would come to Israel and perform with various lineups, playing stuff that later became Foreign Affair. Those gigs were experimental and daring, contained an all-new material, and formed my views as to how artists could present uncompromising new material to their audience and get away with it. If anyone's interested in purchasing any of their Israeli output, I'm willing to act as a middleman here, since you can't buy those off the internet record stores. cheers, giluz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:47:58 -0600 From: "Alyce Ornella" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Venice Biennale >Colin announced that Wire have posibilities to perform >on the Venice Biennale >and would be the second band ever. Does someone know >who was the first? >" argh!! There is a study trip from my school going for the Biennele, now I KNOW I should have tried to go and gotten three credits to see Wire play!!! argh. Does anybody else have the opportunity to go? alyce _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:56:31 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: RE: [idealcopy] vic gig ps If the opening act is the Butterflies of Love I saw them in a stripped down acoustic free lunchtime set a while back and they seemed like a class act. ////// that's the one. prety great bill really. p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 19:07:31 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Venice Biennale > argh!! There is a study trip from my school going for the Biennele, now I > KNOW I should have tried to go and gotten three credits to see > Wire play!!! argh. Does anybody else have the opportunity to go? > alyce Nice place, but I prefer London, if it's a gig. Besides, excuse my ignorance, but I guess this place is a kinda special venetian site, very arty, historical significance, etc. One of the problems I had with the RFH gig was the RFH itself, which just didn't fit the kind of music Wire play (it's a very respectable arty venue, where "serious" art is performed). I'd rather see them in a club. Besides, Venice is one of the prettiest places on earth, but there's not much to do there, once you've seen all the sites. If it was Florence then it would be a completely different story for me, but no. Let's just hope it doesn't sink when Wire are there. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 18:27:25 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Soli and More TV A Wireview on 'In Esse' >>>>>>I guess it depends whether or not you enjoy the aural equivalent of staring at white static on the television... I find this more interesting than most progs on TV actually. ===== Cracked Machine webzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 11:22:01 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: [idealcopy] OffTopic: scanned CD sleeves I think someone mentioned this here and that's why I ask - is there a site that has a database of scanned CD sleeves for printing? giluz ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #55 ******************************