From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #49 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, February 15 2001 Volume 04 : Number 049 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [idealcopy] OT: The State of British Music ["giluz" ] RE: [idealcopy] Re: McCarthy/Stereolab 1987 MAINLY OFF TOPIC [John Robert] RE: [idealcopy] Re: McCarthy/Stereolab 1987 MAINLY OFF TOPIC [Paul Pietro] [idealcopy] Oh No Not So Mr Newman! [=?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= ] RE: [idealcopy] OT: re: McCarthy/Stereolab, High Llamas ["Eric Klaver" ] [idealcopy] Sheeeeeeeesh Kab' IBM o'Pixie man! [=?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20R] Re: [idealcopy] wire (nicky) [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy] FSAMTV! [Rick Hindman ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 11:56:14 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT: The State of British Music > i meant nirvana came eventually. wonder if another decent guitar > band could happen? i guess so , even if at times it seems unlikely. p There's a new band with 4 weird old geezers called Wire - they make quite decent guitar music, I think. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 11:46:05 +0000 From: Howard Spencer Subject: [idealcopy] Re: McCarthy/Stereolab 1987 MAINLY OFF TOPIC I hadn't realised there was a connection. McCarthy's lead singer was a pretty boy called Malcolm something, so was Tim Gane the guitarist? Red Sleeping Beauty was good - can't recall much about the rest. I think they were aligned with the RCP (Revolutionary Communist Party - sample policies, support for Serbia and Slobo, claiming that AIDS didn't exist and was a government conspiracy to prevent people from having it off) which is unfortunate. Was 1987 worse than 1985 or 6? I don't think so - there was the Ideal Copy for a start (my way into Wire) and also early house stuff - sounds lame now, but didn't at the time. Not to mention NO's True Faith, the Pet Shop Boy's second album, Scarlet Fantastic, Westworld and Sinitta! Howard ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:10:43 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Re: McCarthy/Stereolab 1987 MAINLY OFF TOPIC > Was 1987 worse than 1985 or 6? I don't think so - there was the Ideal > Copy for a start (my way into Wire) and also early house stuff - sounds > lame now, but didn't at the time. Not to mention NO's True Faith, the > Pet Shop Boy's second album, Any Pet Shop Boys album is reason enough to make the year it was released in as one of the worst. These guys suck big time. Never understood the critical acclaim they got. Bad music, bad tunes, bad singing, bad programming, bad gigs and international success - there are few acts that got any lower than this! giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 08:56:49 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: McCarthy/Stereolab 1987 MAINLY OFF TOPIC Howard, << I hadn't realised there was a connection. McCarthy's lead singer was a pretty boy called Malcolm something, so was Tim Gane the guitarist? << Yes. And songwriter. >>Red Sleeping Beauty was good - can't recall much about the rest. I think they were aligned with the RCP (Revolutionary Communist Party - sample policies, support for Serbia and Slobo, claiming that AIDS didn't exist and was a government conspiracy to prevent people from having it off) which is unfortunate.<< Indeed.... >> Was 1987 worse than 1985 or 6? I don't think so - there was the Ideal Copy for a start (my way into Wire) and also early house stuff - sounds lame now, but didn't at the time. Not to mention NO's True Faith, the Pet Shop Boy's second album, Scarlet Fantastic, Westworld and Sinitta! >> I suspect my 1987 playlist consisted of lots of indie, British and American. A good year though. My first visit to America and my first trip to the Far East. Mark Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:46:04 -0000 From: "ian jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: re: McCarthy/Stereolab paul, incredibly (for me) i've heard very little Neu but, with you on the Stereolab point, interesting conversation i had with a few members (when they were touring with Yo La Tengo in the U.K.), was that in the initial stages of a song they would be known variously as Neu 1,2,3, etc., or...Can 1,2,3,... or... F.. you get the gist!! I still have McCarthy's LP 'I Am A Wallet' which, overall, has dated somewhat (the good songs still stand out) but the other great McCarthy tune was 'The Fall'- B-side of 'Franz Hals'. ian.s.j. >From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com >To: >CC: >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: re: McCarthy/Stereolab >Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 12:09:14 EST > > > ><< 'Red Sleeping Beauty' - McCarthy, classic pop song. >'Mars Audiac Quintet' - Stereolab, classic pop album. >Tim Gane's been involved in some good stuff, hasn't he?? >A nod of approval in all your general directions. >coo-coo ca-choo, ian.s.j. > >////// i really liked stereolab , but got bored around "dots & loops". like >, how many pretty much similar albums do you need? and having now heard >neu! , it's very obvious where their ideas came from. good live though. > >i picked up a mccarthy album last year (called something like " the meek >shall inherit the earth") and it didn't do much for me. bit generic , >whereas s/lab sounded very fresh when they first came out. > >and a great running gag is the prices stereolab records fetch. i often >wonder if the band are sitting there dribbling the "rarities" out at #40 a >single when they need some beer money. which would not be very marxist.p _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 11:24:30 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: McCarthy/Stereolab 1987 MAINLY OFF TOPIC Scarlet Fantastic, Westworld >>>> i used to go to the same curry house as scarlet fantastic , nice guys. i loved the acoustic version of "no memory" on the b-side. but just like their previous incarnation (swans way) they couldn't follow up the hit. still think "where the action is" by westworld was a neglected classic. best post-gen x single? i do think that band called wire (of whose work i am aware) might push the idea of guitar music onwards , but not if the wider world remains unaware of them. i mean , last years releases were brilliant but went unreviewed and pretty much unpromoted. which i guess was intentional? i was going to say something about having to be pretty and 21 to get on the tv but then most of these nu-metal bands look older than i do. maybe if wire went for that offspring "35 year old guys in shorts" look.........or maybe not.p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 18:46:31 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: [idealcopy] Wire Y2K > i do think that band called wire (of whose work i am aware) might > push the idea of guitar music onwards , but not if the wider > world remains unaware of them. i mean , last years releases were > brilliant but went unreviewed and pretty much unpromoted. which i > guess was intentional? i was going to say something about having > to be pretty and 21 to get on the tv but then most of these > nu-metal bands look older than i do. maybe if wire went for that > offspring "35 year old guys in shorts" look.........or maybe not.p Well, maybe it's because it's just the start of their new incarnation, most of the releases so far have been released as a sort of bonus for hardcore fans like us. I kinda understand this - I wouldn't want the brochure CD or the third day CD to be considered as the new Y2K Wire album. Same goes for the Albini sessions, if they're ever released, I guess. 12 Times You is something different and should have been released for wider distribution, but I think it has: Even though it was limited edition, you could buy it via Sister Ray, and probably in other shops as well. You couldn't get the 3rd Day CD from anywhere else but the pinkflag site. I think Wire would consider something completely new as their first "real" current release, and according to what Colin said on totallyradio, that's not planned for the near future. Speaking of totallyradio, I think it would be nice to start a new thread as to the "How did Wire change your life?" question (and who's that Nick guy he was talking about?) giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 10:10:08 -0800 (PST) From: John Roberts Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Re: McCarthy/Stereolab 1987 MAINLY OFF TOPIC > Any Pet Shop Boys album is reason enough to make the > year it was released in > as one of the worst. These guys suck big time. Never > understood the critical > acclaim they got. Bad music, bad tunes, bad singing, > bad programming, bad > gigs and international success - there are few acts > that got any lower than > this! Which is why the Pet Shop Boys are punk rock. John (Ex - Pet Shop Boys hater) Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 10:37:58 -0800 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Re: McCarthy/Stereolab 1987 MAINLY OFF TOPIC >> Any Pet Shop Boys album is reason enough to make the >> year it was released in >> as one of the worst. These guys suck big time. > >Which is why the Pet Shop Boys are punk rock. What have I? What have I? What have I.....done to deserve this? (^_-) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 18:55:07 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Oh No Not So Mr Newman! On Totally Radio Colin stated that Wire had not functioned as Wire or met up between 91 and 99. At the risk of appearing pedantic, I must correct this - Wir did 'I Saw You' and 'Vien' in 93 then in 95 went on to remix Erasure as a favour to Daniel Miller at Mute. I got an exclusive on this when I interviewed Bruce at the Hacienda, but funnily enough still haven't heard 'Figures in Crumbs'. Wire later did a birthday Drill for Bruce's fiftieth at the ill fated Club With No Name in London. Dome also performed 'Tervis' at Disobey in London. Bruce and Robert both performed at The Brood events. I suspect Colin was simply trying not to waste time. Either that or faulty memory. Talking about Totally Radio thingy, Giluz said >>>>>I didn't really understand how they expect to work more as a band - what was it like in previous incarnations, then? 4 individualists doing solo work together? I think what Colin said was that they were going to try working on different levels. I think he means that they will be approaching the idea of 'being a band' from relatively unconventional angles, ie. not getting a big advance, not doing the boring promotion game, not giving up financial or artistic control to anything outside of Wire, remixing live material, building tracks from bits. He said they were trying to work more democratically, which is not necessarily always the best way for a band to work - The Fall & Beefheart are 2 very effective musical dictatorships that spring to mind! However I think Wire probably can and will work well democratically. I think in the past perhaps certain members have been more forceful than others in pushing the band in one direction or another. Having heard some rehearsal tapes for '154' I can say that there were certainly some arguments! Also 'IBTABA' had much more Gilbert and Lewis input at the mixing stage (Colin was apparently a little out of it in more ways than one, as Ben had just been born - Robert drums and walks), and there were major disagreements between Colin and the Domeheads on the way the Wir album should be mixed. I think what Colin was getting at is that they are now old and wise enough to take on the falls and the submissions and deliver more than a single KO for us all to hear. Disappointing that there were no totally new Wire tracks - I'd have loved to have heard studio mixes of Zoom and Germ Ship - certainly 2 tracks that work on very different levels to each other! I recorded it to tape so if anyone wants a copy let me know and we can sort out a trade perhaps. Sound quality is akin to superior AM/MW radio. Lock up your hats! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine webzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 14:40:15 -0500 From: "Cambra, Robert" Subject: [idealcopy] totallyradio > As a Mac user I couldn't even try to listen to the totallyradio.com > streaming radio show with Colin. I'd love to hear it, of course. Does > anyone know if it will be available for download? > > Robert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:16:02 -0500 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Oh No Not So Mr Newman! On Totally Radio Colin stated that Wire had not functioned as Wire or met up between 91 and 99. At the risk of appearing pedantic, I must correct this - Wir did 'I Saw You' and 'Vien' in 93 then in 95 went on to remix Erasure as a favour to Daniel Miller at Mute. I got an exclusive on this when I interviewed Bruce at the Hacienda, but funnily enough still haven't heard 'Figures in Crumbs'. //////////////////////////// At the risk of appearing equally pedantic (or sounding like the Simpsons' comic store geek), Doesn't Wire (or at least Colin) consider Wire to be the Gotobed, Lewis, Newman, Gilbert lineup exclusively? If this is the case, then Colin was correct, wasn't he? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:21:26 -0500 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT: re: McCarthy/Stereolab, High Llamas I saw the High Llamas, lead by Stereolab collaborator Sean o'Hagan, at the Horseshoe in Toronto and it was a brilliant gig. Anyone familiar with the venue knows that it is a great club with a small, intimate room. Sean had two guitarists, a bass player, drums, a keyboardist, a cello, viola, and violin section. Amazingg performance. I bought what I could of their stuff right then and there from a table set up at the back of the room. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 17:09:49 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Oh No Not So Mr Newman! In a message dated 14/02/01 19:01:22 GMT Standard Time, crackedmachine@yahoo.co.uk writes: > . I got an exclusive on this when I interviewed > Bruce at the Hacienda, but funnily enough still > haven't heard 'Figures in Crumbs'. > > /////// graeme , to rate "in esse" and not have picked this up is an interesting decision. you really should get a copy , i doubt it'd set you back much. the contrast between the original and remixed version is rather noticeable.p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 00:52:26 +0000 From: Tim Robinson Subject: Re: [idealcopy] wire (nicky) Whoops, sorry Mark & Paul no offence meant. I don't know where you come from or what you know/don't know. I just was just saying if you thought Oasis and Travis were the worst British bands, there is a lot worse to come in the shape of the uninspired drivel listed below. It is all Oasis' fault at the end of the day though. Their meat and potatoes approach to music ruined the music scene in this country, its only starting to recover, as Oasis dissolve into the farce they were always destined to become. The only good thing you can say about Oasis is they effectively paid for the studio bills run up by Kevin Sheilds for MBV's Loveless. My gripe is really with the NME. The only left-of-centre music journal left is fast becoming an inkie version of Kerrang! MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: tIM, << Its worse than that! Don't worry about BritPop or Stadium Indie-rock because its long gone. British music scene is in a much worse state than either of you realise.<< Erm...I think Mr Rabjohn and I are both fully aware how bad things are. More to the point, do we sound American!?!?! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 01:18:19 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Sheeeeeeeesh Kab' IBM o'Pixie man! Badly Drawn Stone Age Manic Cold Limp Preachers! What you lot need is an earful of the IBM album on Mego! 12" & 7" package sees Mr Gilbert & pan sonic tackle the corporate question in an intelligent and provocative way that the MStreet Bores would never dream of with all their watered down Clash hand me downs. Then get to Silo available mail order from Swim... awesome discs to start a millenumanumanumanum... 1987=OK from memory perhaps faulty just a few classics Pixies Sonic Youth BFFP Big Black BFFP Butthole Surfers BFFP Wire Big Stick BFFP Husker Diddle Neubauten The Fall WALKINGSEEDS Loop Throwing Muses s/t BFFP and who manages Wire these days? I rest my case and so on........ No yes! there were more good records in 2000 than any other year, as usual. If you couldn't find them maybe you were just hemmed in by genre bars! So many I almost had to give up breathing to make room! Check out Melt Banana, free the bee and burn the Manics on the PWeller Pyre boys!!!!! Wire are so young next to that lot!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Saw podgy Pixie Franco @ Manc Uni do entertaining set with quite a few Pixies songs - wasn't too sure if it'd be much cop but I had fun - Where is my Mind? In Heaven or Los Angeles? Why am I writing this I should be in bed with all my valentines? I give up! I was not Nimrod's Son! Gouge Away! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine webzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 20:21:46 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] wire (nicky) Tim, You really should read Dave Cavanagh's Creation Records book (My Magpoie Eyes are hungry for the Prize). Charts the whole story...brilliantly researched too. You should never expect bands that occupy the mainstream to be artistically satisfying! Mark << I just was just saying if you thought Oasis and Travis were the worst British bands, there is a lot worse to come in the shape of the uninspired drivel listed below. It is all Oasis' fault at the end of the day though. Their meat and potatoesapproach to music ruined the music scene in this country, its only starting to recover, as Oasis dissolve into the farce they were always destined tobecome. The only good thing you can say about Oasis is they effectively paid forthe studio bills run up by Kevin Sheilds for MBV's Loveless. My gripe is really with the NME. The only left-of-centre music journal left is fast becoming an inkie version of Kerrang! >> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 01:04:57 -0800 (PST) From: Rick Hindman Subject: [idealcopy] FSAMTV! Ideal Copyists~~ So I just got the aforementioned CD in the mail a couple of days ago. While I was able to run some of he movies at work, it wasn't until I loaded Quicktime and it's newest plugins, that the whole CD worked! What a fun CD! I loved seeing all of the videos and interviews! The FAQ film was particularly nice, BTW. And so while my main sights are on the Residents right now, I'd like to say "Get this disk if you don't own it yet!!!" you won't regret it at all! Looking forward to more of the disk! RJH Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #49 ******************************