From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #32 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, January 31 2001 Volume 04 : Number 032 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] OT: A Little Help ["ian barrett" ] [idealcopy] Re:ot - mh ["dMc" ] [idealcopy] OT: Worst Bass [Michael Flaherty ] Re: [idealcopy] OT: worst bass player ["giluz" ] Re: [idealcopy] OT: worst bass player [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy] [OT] Love and Rockets term explained ["Paul Pietromonaco" ] Re: [idealcopy] OT: worst bass player [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Re:ot - mh [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OT: Worst Bass [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OT: worst bass player [j alberson ] Re: [idealcopy] Re:ot - mh ["dMc" ] Re: [idealcopy] OT: worst bass player [j alberson ] Re: [idealcopy] OT: worst bass player [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: Fw: [idealcopy] OT: worst bass player [Rick Hindman ] Re: Fw: [idealcopy] OT: worst bass player [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] RE: [idealcopy] OT: worst bass player ["Ciscon, Ray" ] Re: [idealcopy] OT: Hannett [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OT: Hannett [fernando ] RE: [idealcopy] OT: worst bass player [fernando ] : Re: [idealcopy] OT: worst bass player ["scott kellock" ] RE: [idealcopy] Yoko Ono [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: [idealcopy] OT: worst bass player [Andrew N Westmeyer Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: A Little Help It was, ahem, Alvin Stardust > In a message dated Tue, 30 Jan 2001 6:49:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk writes: > > << "And I feel like Buddy Holly 'cause it's raining in my heart." > > Does anyone know where those lyrics are from??? Sorry it is so off-topic. > > Chris. > > > ///// it was a terrible novelty single of the 80's. ted chippington did a version. i think it was called "i feel like buddy holly" , god knows the artist.p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:08:07 -0500 From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: [none] >Here is my latest 'top 20' picks for the work week! [...] >Love and Rockets - Lift You actually *like* it? I could hardly stand the "Happy Fool" CD single. "Lift" is just making me sleep - too monotonous, just droning techno music. Nothing like the L&R I liked before. On the topic of L&R - what is the meaning of the phrase "Sweet F.A."? Syarzhuk Be healthy, stay wealthy... Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://www.belmusic.net _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:16:10 -0600 From: "dMc" Subject: [idealcopy] Re:ot - mh >>Who (sic - was) Martin Hannett? >Produced Joy Division, New Order, Durutti Column, Happy Mondays, Magazine, >U2. U2? btw - he also produced a fair amoung of lesser acts (Happy Mondays?) very 80's drum sound - especially the snare ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:28:56 -0600 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] OT: Worst Bass I'm a big Sex Pistols fan, so of course I absolutely support the nomination of Sid Vicious for worst bass player. By the way, in "Filth and Fury" Lydon says that if Steve had agreed to drop Malcolm he would have agreed to fire Sid because "I could see he was ruining the band." Can help but wonder .... But then we wouldn't have all of those wonderful PIL albums, so maybe it's just as well. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:08:25 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: worst bass player > Sid doesn't play on any track on Never Mind the Bollocks. Some tracks were > recorded when Glen Matlock was still in the band. Steve Jones plays bass on > those written after Matlock left. Oops, I did it again... > And I still think "Pink Flag" smokes (speaking in > terms of technique) ANYTHING the Sex Pistols could > have ever done. Wire members get the A-level in > talent in my school. Of course it does, no one said anything to that effect. > By the way, in "Filth and Fury" Lydon says that if Steve had agreed to drop > Malcolm he would have agreed to fire Sid because "I could see he was > ruining the band." Can help but wonder .... But then we wouldn't have all > of those wonderful PIL albums, so maybe it's just as well. If there's one good thing that came out of the Sex Pistols (except for punk, that is:)) it's PIL. I'm not trying to slag SP off or anything, but PIL were so much better. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 16:27:06 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: worst bass player Giluz, << If there's one good thing that came out of the Sex Pistols (except for punk, that is:)) it's PIL. I'm not trying to slag SP off or anything, but PIL were so much better. >> Such is the wonderful benefit of hindsight! Musically perhaps, but in terms of the effect at the time..... > And I still think "Pink Flag" smokes (speaking in > terms of technique) ANYTHING the Sex Pistols could > have ever done. Wire members get the A-level in > talent in my school. Again, this is what happened once the flood gates opened. And of course, music changed forever in the wake of punk.But no Sex Pistols, no Wire.Simple as that. I guess you had to be there..... Cheers, Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:27:37 -0800 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: [idealcopy] [OT] Love and Rockets term explained > On the topic of L&R - what is the meaning of the phrase "Sweet F.A."? > Fcuk All (Well, it's really the bad "F" word, but you know what I mean...) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:34:12 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: Fw: [idealcopy] OT: worst bass player > > Again, this is what happened once the flood gates opened. And of course, > > music changed forever in the wake of punk.But no Sex Pistols, no > Wire.Simple > > as that. > > > > I guess you had to be there..... > > > I always wondered: Was it really like that? I mean, did the Sex Pistols really invent punk, and wouldn't it have happened without them? giluz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 16:52:53 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: worst bass player In a message dated 30/01/01 17:53:19 GMT Standard Time, Mark Bursa writes: << Subj: Re: [idealcopy] OT: worst bass player Date: 30/01/01 17:53:19 GMT Standard Time From: Mark Bursa To: PaulRabjohn, snowtostars@yahoo.com CC: idealcopy@smoe.org Paul, << 1. inept 2. tedious 3. pretentious 4. combinations of the above >> Derek Smalls?? Mark >> ////// look mark , this is a serious band i am trying to put together here so no fictional characters , right. although mr smalls is clearly a legend in his own lunchbox. but the challenge is to put together the worst possible band (as in most dire , not most inept. so clearly steve howe is a much more worthy candidate than joey ramone etc). i am not sure whether being dead should count you out of the reckoning ; i think not. so linda mccartney stays in. p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 17:00:25 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:ot - mh ////// so the happy mondays are a "lesser act" than U2? hmmmmmm. p >>Who (sic - was) Martin Hannett? >Produced Joy Division, New Order, Durutti Column, Happy Mondays, Magazine, >U2. U2? btw - he also produced a fair amoung of lesser acts (Happy Mondays?) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 17:04:53 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Worst Bass I'm a big Sex Pistols fan, so of course I absolutely support the nomination of Sid Vicious for worst bass player. ////// well , the idea has merits. but my current idea for a shit-kicking hard-rocking lead guitarist for this band is mike "rock god" rutherford. and i'm just worried about the band dynamics ; how are sid , mike and linda going to get along on the tour bus? i mean , these things are important....... By the way, in "Filth and Fury" Lydon says that if Steve had agreed to drop Malcolm he would have agreed to fire Sid because "I could see he was ruining the band." Can help but wonder .... But then we wouldn't have all of those wonderful PIL albums, so maybe it's just as well. //// and presumably the replacement lydon had in mind would have been wobble , his big mate of the time. so how about a 2nd pistols album with a lydon/wobble/cook/jones line up? could have been good...... p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:08:07 -0800 (PST) From: j alberson Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: worst bass player "This is '77, nearly heaven". ...and I would never presume to second-guess the musical significance of the Sex Pistols. Still, I enjoy Wire a whole lot more. ...and I don't want to sound like a brat, but isn't saying "I guess you had to be there" a little harsh? Unfortunately, I didn't have the choice. I was two years old, club-footed, and in rural Arkansas (don't hold THAT against me!) No, I see the point in saying that, actually. I know it wasn't meant the way I took it initially. I make the mistake anyone else would who couldn't be there. I romanticize it. I'd love to have seen Wire, Joy Division, The Fall, or even the Sex Pistols, and I'd love to say I was there. If only... Thank goodness I have the music to listen to, though. That, at the end of the day, should be the point, right? Dreaming of unknown pleasures, Jack __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 16:07:57 -0600 From: "dMc" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:ot - mh i really need to work on my communication skills that was not at all what i meant i meant lesser than magazine, joy division and durutti column u2 are of less than no interest to me - and happy mondays are only slightly mor visible on my radar (mainly for that dancer chap) > ////// so the happy mondays are a "lesser act" than U2? hmmmmmm. p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:11:24 -0800 (PST) From: j alberson Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: worst bass player Paul, How about just making Foghat or Lynyrd Skynyrd the worst possible band? Certainly American trailer rock is worse than even Linda McCartney. Cheers! Jack > Mark >> > ////// look mark , this is a serious band i am > trying to put together here so > no fictional characters , right. although mr smalls > is clearly a legend in > his own lunchbox. but the challenge is to put > together the worst possible > band (as in most dire , not most inept. so clearly > steve howe is a much more > worthy candidate than joey ramone etc). i am not > sure whether being dead > should count you out of the reckoning ; i think not. > so linda mccartney stays > in. p __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 17:15:19 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: worst bass player If there's one good thing that came out of the Sex Pistols (except for punk, that is:)) it's PIL. I'm not trying to slag SP off or anything, but PIL were so much better. /////// i love both and i can't make a comparison. the pistols were so much more than just the music , they catalysed almost everything that followed and single-handedly changed the whole music scene in a way maybe only 3 other acts have done in 50 years. PIL did some great stuff then turned into a rock band , i love their first couple of albums but he was never going to top his past work , and didn't. i guess if you weren't a teenager in the uk in 77 you may well see the pistols differently , but as someone who was i still think of them as something amazingly special in a way PIL don't approach.p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:17:14 -0800 (PST) From: Rick Hindman Subject: Re: Fw: [idealcopy] OT: worst bass player Hey all!!! Another $.02- > I always wondered: Was it really like that? I mean, > did the Sex Pistols > really invent punk, and wouldn't it have happened > without them? If I recall my history, the Ramones pre-dated SP by a bit. Punk really seemed like a movement that they rode on rather than started. Add Malcom McClaren and it looks like a way to cash in on a movement that was already underway. Admittedly, I am a bit biased about things McClaren is involved with! Just and opinion! BTW - it seems weird to me to refer to SP and not have it mean "Skinny Puppy"! RJH __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 17:33:45 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: Fw: [idealcopy] OT: worst bass player I always wondered: Was it really like that? I mean, did the Sex Pistols really invent punk, and wouldn't it have happened without them? giluz ///// i think that's what you call an "essay question" :-) there were punks before the pistols , but more the american artschool version that was never gonna reach a mass market. lydon gave it that brilliant popular twist and it bacame a movement that swept the old dross away and opened the door for wire and most of the other acts we all still talk about now. without the pistols you'd probably still have had a load of glorified pub rock like the stranglers/vibrators/hotrods , they gave it the sharpness , the intellectual edge that let it cut into an "art movement" and brought it to national attention. then the hype fans it's own fire and for the first time since the beatles/"british invasion" you've got a genuinely exciting and innovative scene with its own momentum. sad thing is its never happened here again (the US got its own version with nirvana of course). so i guess the simple answer is that the without the pistols the uk punk scene would never have been a fraction of what it became. sadly i was only 13 in 77 so i was a bit late arriving , but i got there in the end. as mark said , maybe you had to be there. i think a lot of those who were have never quite got over it....... there are dozens of punk books , i probably have most of them. the best is "englands dreaming" by john savage , he gets as close as anyone to explaining what it was like to be there and then. that might well answer your question better than i just have,p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 16:44:02 -0600 From: "Ciscon, Ray" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT: worst bass player Jack wrote: How about just making Foghat or Lynyrd Skynyrd the worst possible band? Certainly American trailer rock is worse than even Linda McCartney. ============== Two words: Molly Hatchet Yep, Molly Hatchet make Foghat (my wife LOVES 'Slow Ride' BTW) and Lynyrd Skynyrd look like real artists. Trailer Rock: When just one drummer isn't enough. Cheers, Ray ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 17:56:48 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Hannett BTW, Does the Magazine box set include the alternate versions of THE CORRECT USE OF SOAP, that was released in Canada on the title THE ALTERNATE USE OF SOAP? Though people laud the other albums, this has been my fave -- as a bit of a distant Magazine fan. ////// no , it doesn't. 2 discs are a selection of singles , b-sides , live tracks and a few album tracks. think "scree" + most of "play" and a few more to fill it up. the only "rare" tracks are 3 alternate versions of MMATW tracks. 3rd disc is peel sessions , i guess what most people bought it for ! i've never heard those AUOS tracks ; any good? p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:59:37 -0800 From: fernando Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Hannett I could not tell you how good the AUoS is... my roommate at the time mentioned it... and I never saw a copy. Later he said he found it on a trip to Canada, but did not get a chance to hear it... perhaps waiting for my own trip there. I bought the Japanese edition with extra tracks, but I doubt that it has anything from this other Canadian release. - -fernando At 05:56 PM 1/30/01 -0500, PaulRabjohn@aol.com wrote: > > BTW, Does the Magazine box set include the alternate versions of THE > CORRECT USE OF SOAP, that was released in Canada on the title THE ALTERNATE > USE OF SOAP? Though people laud the other albums, this has been my fave -- > as a bit of a distant Magazine fan. > > ////// no , it doesn't. 2 discs are a selection of singles , b-sides , live >tracks and a few album tracks. think "scree" + most of "play" and a few more >to fill it up. the only "rare" tracks are 3 alternate versions of MMATW >tracks. 3rd disc is peel sessions , i guess what most people bought it for ! > >i've never heard those AUOS tracks ; any good? p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:01:56 -0800 From: fernando Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT: worst bass player Well... melt in 38 special... but really... I cant wait for a post in a few years time: "Trailer Post-Rock: when just one drummer isn't enough (and now there are three... e.g., Tortoise)" by then, we should be discussing something other than worst bassist... perhaps worst turntablelist/sampler. - -fernando At 04:44 PM 1/30/01 -0600, Ciscon, Ray wrote: >Jack wrote: >How about just making Foghat or Lynyrd Skynyrd the >worst possible band? Certainly American trailer rock >is worse than even Linda McCartney. >============== >Two words: > >Molly Hatchet > >Yep, Molly Hatchet make Foghat (my wife LOVES 'Slow Ride' BTW) and Lynyrd >Skynyrd look like real artists. > >Trailer Rock: When just one drummer isn't enough. > >Cheers, > >Ray ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:13:07 -0000 From: "scott kellock" Subject: : Re: [idealcopy] OT: worst bass player - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 9:27 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: worst bass player > Again, this is what happened once the flood gates opened. And of course, > music changed forever in the wake of punk.But no Sex Pistols, no Wire.Simple > as that. > > I guess you had to be there..... Mark, Spot on! You had to be there.It was more than just the music. But what it also did was create Independant Record Labels which allowed bands to release 7" singles ( with record sleeves, coloured vinyl, picture discs ,wierd shaped records etc) and start a whole new movement.It had already started and the Pistols were just the best know of 1000's of bands. So really Wire would still have functioned as a band but would they have got the chance of a record deal if it weren't for punk in general.? Anyway that's another debate. Having been around for over 20 years and released numerous Great Albums I personally think the band should get back to the real "wire"sound. The wire that owned the "Roxy Album".The 2 minute classics, The brilliant guitar riffs, god I could go on and on. Having heard the new version of 12 xu, I would love to hear what "Pink Flag" would sound like now! What do you think ? Cheers Scott ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:45:31 -0000 From: "scott kellock" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: worst bass player - ----- Original Message ----- From: "j alberson" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: worst bass player > I make the mistake anyone else would who couldn't be > there. I romanticize it. I'd love to have seen Wire, > Joy Division, The Fall, or even the Sex Pistols, and > I'd love to say I was there. If only... > > Thank goodness I have the music to listen to, though. > That, at the end of the day, should be the point, > right? > > Dreaming of unknown pleasures, > Jack Jack, Yeah they were the days. It took Britain by storm and now we're left with the dregs. There were loads of talented and creative people in the late seventies and punk helped get alot of these people noticed. But hearing you guys talking about the above bands especially Joy Division. reminds of a Malcolm Owen whose life was also cut short.I know you've all heard of the Ruts but you should try and get hold of a copy of "Rhythm Collision"by the "Ruts DC".which was produced by "The Mad Professor" (who is now famous for working with Massive Attack) or "Ruts-Rule" by the "Ruts" which contains some brilliant demos. Malcolm Owen died July 1980 aged 26. signed by a sad 38 year old whose waiting for a "new wave"! Cheers Scott ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 19:37:29 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Fw: [idealcopy] OT: worst bass player Paul, I'm glad you got to this one before me! And a very accurate assessment of the situation too. As regards Ramones v Pistols, the Ramones were certainly at record-releasing stage before the Pistols, but viewed from a UK perspective it was a bit like comparing a cartoon show with a news documentary. The Ramones could be laughed off; the Pistols were headline news. "The filth and the fury" was a genuine front page headline on Britain's biggest selling "newspaper" (the Sun) the day after the Pistols swore on TV. So my comment about having to be there" doesn't imply that you had to be an ultra-hip London punk at the Vortex. It really refers to being a disillusioned teenage music fan in a shitty provincial English town, and getting swept up in a youth movement that blew apart the music establishment of the day... The Sex Pistols (and to a slightly lesser extent the Clash) will for those reasons always be important to me for something a little beyond just what's in the grooves.... Agreed re Savage's book. It's the one to read. Mark << ///// i think that's what you call an "essay question" :-) there were punks before the pistols , but more the american artschool version that was never gonna reach a mass market. lydon gave it that brilliant popular twist and it bacame a movement that swept the old dross away and opened the door for wire and most of the other acts we all still talk about now. without the pistols you'd probably still have had a load of glorified pub rock like the stranglers/vibrators/hotrods , they gave it the sharpness , the intellectual edge that let it cut into an "art movement" and brought it to national attention. then the hype fans it's own fire and for the first time since the beatles/"british invasion" you've got a genuinely exciting and innovative scene with its own momentum. sad thing is its never happened here again (the US got its own version with nirvana of course). so i guess the simple answer is that the without the pistols the uk punk scene would never have been a fraction of what it became. sadly i was only 13 in 77 so i was a bit late arriving , but i got there in the end. as mark said , maybe you had to be there. i think a lot of those who were have never quite got over it....... there are dozens of punk books , i probably have most of them. the best is "englands dreaming" by john savage , he gets as close as anyone to explaining what it was like to be there and then. that might well answer your question better than i just have,p >> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:40:01 -0600 From: Rob Warnock Subject: Re: Fw: [idealcopy] OT: worst bass player Rick Hindman wrote: > > Hey all!!! > > Another $.02- > > > I always wondered: Was it really like that? I mean, > > did the Sex Pistols > > really invent punk, and wouldn't it have happened > > without them? I had a similar argument with someone I know about Kraftwerk recently. I had said I thought they were one of the most influential bands ever, but was told that if they didn't do it, someone else would have. The argument I made was that if Neil Armstrong wasn't the first man on the moon someone else would have been, but since he was the one who actually made it there first he got the credit. That's not saying I agree with the Sex Pistols having invented punk, though. > > BTW - it seems weird to me to refer to SP and not have > it mean "Skinny Puppy"! > Me too. - -Rob- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 19:49:08 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: : Re: [idealcopy] OT: worst bass player Scott, Er... go to www.pinkflag.com, send two crisp tenners to the address provided and get copies of "The Third Day" and "It's all in the brochure", Wire's two CDs of 2000. You'll find that your wishes do sometimes come true ;-) Wire previewed new material at Edinburgh before Chriustmas that was very much in the Pink Flag vein - only harder, louder, faster and angrier. Mark << Having been around for over 20 years and released numerous Great Albums I personally think the band should get back to the real "wire"sound. The wire that owned the "Roxy Album".The 2 minute classics, The brilliant guitar riffs, god I could go on and on. Having heard the new version of 12 xu, I would love to hear what "Pink Flag" would sound like now! What do you think ? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 17:31:23 -0800 (PST) From: Rick Hindman Subject: [idealcopy] [OT] Yoko and Linda and... Here's a silly link for all of you who, like myself, have been cracking up at the 'worst band' being constructed here! (Although didn't 10cc claim that title for themselves on 'Sheet Music'?) http://www.onion.com read the 'Rock's first billiionaire' article! It's a scream!!! The bit about Maryln Manson's great too! RJH Who has to admit to owning 2 Foghat albums (and still listens to them occasionally)! No Skynyrd or Hatchet, though! __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 19:46:09 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Yoko Ono > > What I do know is that I've read enough, and seen enough to know that Yoko > > Ono's relationship with John Lennon was not a healthy one, and certainly > > shortened the creative life of a FAR better artist than she ever > > was or will > > be. I've forgotten who wrote this, and it's unclear who wrote the comment about heroin...but no one outside a relationship has any right to judge whether or not the relationship is healthy, and if the relationship seems to be unhealthy, who's to say whose fault it is? As to the heroin thing: nothing Lennon wasn't completely forthright about, and what the hell does Yoko have to do with it? As for the Beatles breakup thing: aside from its inevitability, blaming Yoko is foolish for a number of reasons. If anything, McCartney was far more separated from the rest of the Beatles than they were from one another after the breakup, as evidenced by the fact that each of other three appeared on one another's recordings shortly after the breakup. Ringo drummed on Harrison's _All THings Must Pass_ and, I believe, on parts of _Imagine_, and Harrison played guitar for both Starr ("Photograph," which he co-wrote) and Lennon (the solo on "Gimme Some Truth" is his). McCartney, on the other hand, played everything on his first two solo albums all by himself. I don't blame anyone for the breakup - it was, as I said, inevitable (that, or Allen Klein) - but the Yoko-blaming tends toward misogyny and xenophobia about 3/4 of the people who make that claim. I'm hoping whoever made it here is in the 1/4 who *don't* think that way. (Probably so, since if I recall, that person also championed Malka Spigel...) - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::playing around with the decentered self is all fun and games ::until somebody loses an I. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 20:55:10 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew N Westmeyer Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: worst bass player Excerpts from mail: 30-Jan-101 Re: [idealcopy] OT: worst b.. by PaulRabjohn@aol.com > Derek Smalls?? > >/// look mark , this is a serious band i am trying to put together > here so no fictional characters , right. He's no more fictional than any of the punk rockers who took fake names (eg, Johnny Rotten or Klive Nice and Hornsey Transfer). I saw Spinal Tap play in Cleveland back in 1992. Derek was a good bass player, so he shouldn't be on the list anyhow. It's the same question for the Monkees - band or not? (A)ndrew Westmeyer qwerty@cmu.edu www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~qwerty "Years of dealing with your kind has taught me patience." -Cecil Adams ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 20:57:20 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew N Westmeyer Subject: Re: Fw: [idealcopy] OT: worst bass player Excerpts from mail: 30-Jan-101 Fw: [idealcopy] OT: worst b.. by "giluz"@nettalk.com > I always wondered: Was it really like that? I mean, did the Sex Pistols > really invent punk, and wouldn't it have happened without them? For what it's worth, Colin told me once that punk rock began with Pere Ubu. I guess that depends on what you mean by "punk". Or "began". (A)ndrew Westmeyer qwerty@cmu.edu www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~qwerty "Years of dealing with your kind has taught me patience." -Cecil Adams ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 01:29:46 -0500 From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT: worst bass player >Sex Pistols are really underestimated as musicians, due to the image >built by McLaren. I'm not a great SP fan, but Don't Mind the Bollocks >certainly rocks, and you can't get that with people that lack talent. >Maybe Vicious didn't know how to play but he sounded good in the band he >was in. Giluz, it is widely known that Sid couldn't play and all the bass parts on NMTB were played by Steve Jones and Glen Matlock - nevermind McLaren had thrown Matlock from the band half a year before - they had to invite Matlock to record some parts. Sid could not play - listen to any of the '77 live bootlegs to see for yourself - he was mostly strumming one or two notes thru the whole show. Syarzhuk _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 15:51:49 -0600 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: worst bass player >Jack wrote: >How about just making Foghat or Lynyrd Skynyrd the >worst possible band? Certainly American trailer rock >is worse than even Linda McCartney. >============== >Two words: > >Molly Hatchet > >Yep, Molly Hatchet make Foghat (my wife LOVES 'Slow Ride' BTW) and Lynyrd >Skynyrd look like real artists. > >Trailer Rock: When just one drummer isn't enough. > >Cheers, > >Ray Whereas I must confess an unnatural fondness for Free Bird & Sweet Home Alabama. I'm not proud of it, but nonetheless it's a fact. Must have something to do with growing growing up in rural Arkansas as trailer trash once-removed (i.e. the decaying old ancestral manse was sold, razed & replaced by a trailer back in the late '80s, after my mother died). Dan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:14:34 +0000 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Love & Rockets I bought Hot Trip To Heaven (?) recently. Urrgh. Put me off Love & Rockets for life. Chris. "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" on 30/01/2001 20:08:07 To: idealcopy@smoe.org cc: (bcc: Chris Ray/IT/MEDAS) Subject: >Here is my latest 'top 20' picks for the work week! [...] >Love and Rockets - Lift You actually *like* it? I could hardly stand the "Happy Fool" CD single. "Lift" is just making me sleep - too monotonous, just droning techno music. Nothing like the L&R I liked before. On the topic of L&R - what is the meaning of the phrase "Sweet F.A."? Syarzhuk Be healthy, stay wealthy... Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://www.belmusic.net _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #32 ******************************