From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #30 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, January 30 2001 Volume 04 : Number 030 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] RE:OffTopic: The Velvet Underground / Filth & Fury ["giluz" <] Re: [idealcopy] Off Topic-Felt ["Stephen JC Sheen" ] Re: [idealcopy] Off Topic-Felt [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Off Topic-Felt [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] RE:OffTopic: The Velvet Underground / Filth & Fury [MarkB] Re: [idealcopy] OT: Another new Fall collection [MarkBursa@aol.com] RE: [idealcopy] RE:OffTopic: The Velvet Underground / Filth & Fury ["gilu] [idealcopy] Re:OT - Hey! Look what I did ["dMc" ] Re: [idealcopy] Yoko Ono [WAndyComer@aol.com] RE: [idealcopy] Yoko Ono ["Ciscon, Ray" ] [idealcopy] OT - This weeks picks and a promise!!! [Rick Hindman ] RE: [idealcopy] Yoko Ono ["giluz" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 12:08:12 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: [idealcopy] RE:OffTopic: The Velvet Underground / Filth & Fury > Against the backdrop of 1969, the third album is pretty radical. Actually > prefer it to WL/WH, though I accept that album's ground-breaking status. Just wanted to add something to that: I'm just listening to Nico's Marble Index, produced, arranged and played by John Cale. This was released in 1968 - now, this is radical music, and it sounds radical even today. The velvets' third album doesn't come even close. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 11:20:46 -0000 From: "Stephen JC Sheen" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Off Topic-Felt General warning/encouragement for Felt exploration - apart from periodical pronouncements that Lawrence is on the verge of recording an LP that will be the apotheosis of pop, Felt most commonly hit the headlines these days as being a huge influence on Belle and Sebastian. But as much for attitude as for musical style. Felt are noted for releasing 10 LPs and 10 singles in their 10 year life, but this is certainly not because they only had 10 tunes worthy of singlehood. More detail on the compilations mentioned by Mark ... Absolute Classic Masterpieces (bred 97) - 18 tracks of Cherry Red material (1979-85), kicking off with the magnificent "Primitive Painters" (for all Cocteaus completists), and gathering together other absolute classic masterpieces (Penelope Tree, Dismantled King is Off the Throne) and some of those instrumentals as well - also includes a little history of the period. Absolute Classic Masterpieces - Volume II (cre cd 150) - double CD of 26 tracks compiled from the Creation material 1986-88), divided into singles and LP material, carrying on the tradition of ACMs (Ballad of the Band, Sandman's on the Rise Again) and noodling instrumentals. Essential purchases for the modern ironist. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 07:00:54 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Off Topic-Felt << I'm reading David Cavanagh's 'Creation Records Story' at the moment. (Highly recommended by the way. extensive, well researched, witty and informative etc etc..) ///// agreed , this is a great book. Avoid Denim....the first album has a few decent songs, but the two subsequent albums are dismal 70s pastiches. And especially avoid Lawrence's last album, released as Go-kart Mozart, which is one of the worst records ever made, and contains a song about the Queen Mother's hip replacement operation. ///// now i actually prefer the more light-hearted 2nd denim album to the first. but the 3rd one is garbage. GKM passed me by completely.p Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 07:39:24 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Off Topic-Felt Stephen, There's also an older Cherry Red one called Gold Mine Trash which has different versions of some of the Strange idols Pattern songs on it, and another called Bubblegum perfume, which is more of a whole-career retrospective. Mark << More detail on the compilations mentioned by Mark ... Absolute Classic Masterpieces (bred 97) - 18 tracks of Cherry Red material (1979-85), kicking off with the magnificent "Primitive Painters" (for all Cocteaus completists), and gathering together other absolute classic masterpieces (Penelope Tree, Dismantled King is Off the Throne) and some of those instrumentals as well - also includes a little history of the period. Absolute Classic Masterpieces - Volume II (cre cd 150) - double CD of 26 tracks compiled from the Creation material 1986-88), divided into singles and LP material, carrying on the tradition of ACMs (Ballad of the Band, Sandman's on the Rise Again) and noodling instrumentals. Essential purchases for the modern ironist. >> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 08:03:37 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE:OffTopic: The Velvet Underground / Filth & Fury Giluz, The radical thing was the fact that the album was a conscious attempt to NOT play loud'n'heavy - which was what everyone else was doing at the time. So the Velvets concentrated on the softer element of their sound that had always been there (eg Sunday morning/I'll be your mirror). Also with Cale gone there was a desire on Lou's part to move away from his influence. Mark << Except for the Murder Mystery, which was really dark and radical, I don't think it was that revolutionary. Reed was certainly trying, by that time, to achieve mainstream success and it certainly shows. The whole point of the velvets was that they were so loud, and from this album on they just play soft, like most other bands at the time. It certainly has better songs than WL/WH, but they're played and arranged in an almost middle of the road kinda way. >> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 08:04:30 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Another new Fall collection Paul, << (And, who the heck is Cog Sinister?) >> The Fall's own label. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 16:15:51 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] RE:OffTopic: The Velvet Underground / Filth & Fury > The radical thing was the fact that the album was a conscious > attempt to NOT > play loud'n'heavy - which was what everyone else was doing at the > time. What? Who was playing heavy in 1969, unless you're talking about MC5 or the Stooges, which were heavily influenced by the Velvets. The kind of heavy playing associated with Cream/Hendrix, which was quite popular at the time, is something completely different - if you take these people as being at the start of some sort of rock evolutionary tree, then Cream/Hendrix stand at the branch leading to hard rock/heavy metal, while the Velvets were certainly the first punkers. Their loud & heavy playing was completely different and much more intense than the others' style, and cannot be compared to it just on the basis of decibels count. Anyway, soft rock bands were still the majority, especially in the US, the result of too much flower power, folk music and hallucinogenics. You can say that Reed deliberately tried to make songs with a strong contradiction between sweet pop melodies and the lyrics, just as Ray Davies did with the Kinks. But the fact that the Velvets did the opposite thing on their two first albums kinda makes it look like a weak excuse for just wanting to go mainstream musically. You might like it - I like the Velets' third album myself, though I can't say the same about Loaded (that Doug Yule guy shouldn't have been there at the first place), but it's not radical. So > the Velvets concentrated on the softer element of their sound > that had always > been there (eg Sunday morning/I'll be your mirror). Also with > Cale gone there > was a desire on Lou's part to move away from his influence. But as much as I love these two songs they're not the ones that made the Velvets so influential and revolutionary. These songs are so good in the first album because they're so unlike all the rest of it. They give you some breathing space and they're great pop songs. Apart from that, there isn't anything new or radical about them. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 09:21:09 -0600 From: "dMc" Subject: [idealcopy] Re:OT - Hey! Look what I did > [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type audio/mpeg which had a name of Garbage3.mp3] and rightly so much as i am personally anxious to hear your work, i do not want attachments sent from mailing lists. i have enough problems with all the stuff my family forwards. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 13:36:33 -0600 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] Various: OT and on >///// well , i guess in the US they got the ex-lion tamers. they must've been a laugh.p They were. I usually don't like these kinds of things, but as an opening act it was great. Plus, they never tried to "look like" the band ... just some decent covers. When I saw them they got to join Wire for one of the encores. (I have no idea if this was the usual thing or not. I forget the song, but it was something new at the time). >From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= >Subject: [idealcopy] Ash International Night Feb 8 > >Gig info forwarded from MSC Harding of Touch & Ash >International, who released Ocsid's Speaking of ... is anyone else finding this release to grow more amazing w/ each playing? Very deceptive in its layers of information. >I just remembered this as I played the new Silo at full volume, accompanied >by a very prominent buzz on my left headphone (or maybe it's just my left >eardrum), in tune with the bass guitar, reminding me that I need to buy a >new set of headphones. > >cheers, >giluz Yeah ... well, let's hope it's the headphones .... >Are there any bands out there now that have the same spirit of adventure and >experimentation that Wire has??? Tough question... I can only think of a >couple off of the top of my head... >Ray I don't know about every album, but King Crimson and Sonic Youth have certainly continued to evol as much as Wire has. In the case of KC personnel changes has had a lot to do w/ this, but even w/in the individual units there's a lot of change.) > Talking about the Worst/Best 100 Albums," I just bought "the Vibrators" - > the BBC SESSIONS it is classic Punk 10 out of 10. > >////// hmmm , so that makes pink flag about 17/10 :-) i Yes ... except that Wire was never "really" a punk band--like John Lydon they were intellectually "above" the whole scene even while they were recording one of the movements classics. For pure punk The Vibrators are a favorite of mine. >Last time I saw [godspeed] they played for far too long like they were Yes or >Pink Floyd. Contrary bastards! What do you think of their latest? It does have that art rock thing going on, but I think it's really powerful. Then again, I love King Crimson and like Pink Floyd (hate the rest). >And on the last tour, a yelling idiot prompted KC to >leave the stage prematurely!! Grrrrr! I saw Robert stop a beautiful guitar solo when a "fan" was screaming for old songs. Someone on the Fripp list wrote to say he was finished (and how stupid of me not to know), but finished or not, he and much of the audience had had enough. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 12:58:18 -0500 From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Adventurous Bands giluz wrote: >Besides, their drummer's from Israel. Is that good or bad? :) Also on the Wire-as-Beatles topic - would Malka qualify as Yoko? Syarzhuk Be healthy, stay wealthy... Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://www.belmusic.net _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 18:41:11 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] idealcopy@smoe.org Vienerror & IBM Don't know if anyone else noticed it but due to a slip of the type finger I posted the wrong recording dates for the Vien EP Should be - recorded 7-9 Feb 93 Released 97. That's what it says on the back of the CD! 'The first letter' (album) was released in 91, so the Vien tracks were definitely not recorded at thsoe sessions. I think Vien is worth a listen in the light of Wire 2000- It seems to be a neat bridge between Wir and what they are doing now. Listen to the first few minutes of 'The First Letter from the horses mouth' then listen to Ocsid and there are more similarities and trajectories. **** as good a way to start the week as any ***** Got IBM LP & 7" in the post this morning - thanks Kevin & Bruce & Ilpo & Mika & Mego!) Before this turns into a bleedin' awards ceremony, a word of warning - if you get it by post be careful which way you open the sleeve (it has a kind of reversable design) as the 7" might fall out on the floor like mine did! No audible damage done - its so niosy you'd probably never notice anyway! 2 word review: RHYTHMIC NOISE IBM falls somewhere between the title track of Ab Ovo & In Esse in terms of easy listening, but maintains more than a semblance of rhythmic structure throughout. IBM makes the excellent new pan sonic CD seem somewhat genteel in comparison. If Ocsid sometimes summon the sound of rampaging elephants then this is a mammoth stomp to the end of the tusk jousts. They are not just fiddling about, that's for sure! This will not go down well with the pop tone zone, but is probably easier to chew than 'Soli'. It could be useful to compare it to the pan sonic / Gilbert tracks on the 'Rude Mechanic' CD (Piano) - good as those tracks were, IBM is more focused and effective. Bruce seems to push pan sonic away from cleaner tones and into the rougher more distorted textures they tend to save for climactic moments. The 7" has two faster beatier tracks whilst the Lp has three extended noise workouts which are really too dense to be described as drones. Parts sound like pan sonic munched by grunge pedals. That Gilbert electric saw sound which seems like the death cry of Cd's mangled by endless distortion is alive and kicking and kicking and kicking. Who needs titles anyway? 5 word review: A BIT OF A RUMBLE LUYHats! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine webzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 13:33:29 -0600 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] OT: VU; Filth and Fury >From: "giluz" >Subject: [idealcopy] RE:OffTopic: The Velvet Underground / Filth & Fury > Reed treated the velvets as his backup band - what a stupid notion, but >that's the way he treated them from the beginning. Funnily enough, it didn't >feel like that in Songs For Drella. From this album you got the sense that >Reed & Cale really collaborated equally They did: lyrics Reed, music Cale, for the most part. Cale says quite a bit about this experience (started great, end horribly) in the bio. >They have their moments and I love those albums, but they don't have that >avant-garde revolutionary scent that the two first albums had. I completely agree. The first 2 VU albums are the beginning of most of what I love that's found in the "rock" section of stores. The rest is good, but .... >What's he [Cale] doing now? I kinda had enough of his guitar/piano solo concerts. He's writing classically influenced soundtracks and giving solo concerts that you, and others, have had enough of. He's said that he's grown tired of rhythm. In the meantime, Tony Conrad is releasing more avant garde material from the 60s. As their is obviously a lot of interest, I'll post some info I have on it. Pistols Film: I didn't learn much from this (much of it is in Lydon's book), but I still enjoyed every moment. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 13:37:34 -0600 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] [sabotage] CALE BOX track list Info on the new Cale set: >Disc 1 "SUN BLINDNESS MUSIC" > >Sun Blindness Music (42.42) recorded Oct 28 1967 > >Summer Heat (11.06) recorded August 1965 > >The Second Fortress (10.36) recorded late 67 early 68 > > >Disc 2 "DREAM INTERPRETATION" > >Dream Interpretation (20.33) recorded Feb 6 1969 > >Ex-Cathedra (5.03) recorded late 67 or early 68 > >(Untitled) for piano (12.28) recorded early/mid 60's > >Carousel (2.32) recorded late 67 or early 68 > >A midnight rain of green wrens at the worlds tallest building (3.19) >recorded Feb 8 1968 > >Hot Scoria (9.21) recorded March 2 1964 0r 1965 > > >Disc 3 "STAINLESS GAMELAN" > >Stainless Steel Gamelan (10.30) recorded May 67 with Sterling > >At about this time Mozart was dead and Joseph Conrad was sailing the seven seas learning English (26.27) recorded May 67 with Sterling > >Terry's Cha-Cha (8.20) recorded mid 1960's > >After the Locust (4.18) recorded circa 1968 > >Big Apple Xpress (5.45) recorded early/mid 60's This will probably sound more like La Monte Young than the VU. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 13:38:44 -0600 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] Various: OT and on >Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 13:36:33 -0600 >To: idealcopy@smoe.org >From: Michael Flaherty >Subject: Various: OT and on >In-Reply-To: <200101260930.EAA22750@smoe.org> > >>///// well , i guess in the US they got the ex-lion tamers. they must've been a laugh.p > >They were. I usually don't like these kinds of things, but as an opening act it was great. Plus, they never tried to "look like" the band ... just some decent covers. When I saw them they got to join Wire for one of the encores. (I have no idea if this was the usual thing or not. I forget the song, but it was something new at the time). > >>From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= >>Subject: [idealcopy] Ash International Night Feb 8 >> >>Gig info forwarded from MSC Harding of Touch & Ash >>International, who released Ocsid's > >Speaking of ... is anyone else finding this release to grow more amazing w/ each playing? Very deceptive in its layers of information. > > >>I just remembered this as I played the new Silo at full volume, accompanied >>by a very prominent buzz on my left headphone (or maybe it's just my left >>eardrum), in tune with the bass guitar, reminding me that I need to buy a >>new set of headphones. >> >>cheers, >>giluz > >Yeah ... well, let's hope it's the headphones .... > >>Are there any bands out there now that have the same spirit of adventure and >>experimentation that Wire has??? Tough question... I can only think of a >>couple off of the top of my head... >>Ray > >I don't know about every album, but King Crimson and Sonic Youth have certainly continued to evol as much as Wire has. In the case of KC personnel changes has had a lot to do w/ this, but even w/in the individual units there's a lot of change.) > >> Talking about the Worst/Best 100 Albums," I just bought "the Vibrators" - >> the BBC SESSIONS it is classic Punk 10 out of 10. >> >>////// hmmm , so that makes pink flag about 17/10 :-) i > >Yes ... except that Wire was never "really" a punk band--like John Lydon they were intellectually "above" the whole scene even while they were recording one of the movements classics. For pure punk The Vibrators are a favorite of mine. > >>Last time I saw [godspeed] they played for far too long like they were Yes or >>Pink Floyd. Contrary bastards! > >What do you think of their latest? It does have that art rock thing going on, but I think it's really powerful. Then again, I love King Crimson and like Pink Floyd (hate the rest). > >>And on the last tour, a yelling idiot prompted KC to >>leave the stage prematurely!! Grrrrr! > >I saw Robert stop a beautiful guitar solo when a "fan" was screaming for old songs. Someone on the Fripp list wrote to say he was finished (and how stupid of me not to know), but finished or not, he and much of the audience had had enough. > >Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:28:22 -0600 From: "Ciscon, Ray" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Adventurous Bands Syarzhuk wrote: Also on the Wire-as-Beatles topic - would Malka qualify as Yoko? ===================== Oh no... under no circumstances could you compare Malka with Yoko Ono... Malka has talent you see, Yoko Ono has absolutely no talent whatsoever as far as I can tell... Cheers, Ray (Who can't forgive Yoko like some people can't forgive Nixon) Ciscon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:51:01 EST From: WAndyComer@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Yoko Ono In a message dated 1/29/01 3:41:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, rciscon@comark.com writes: > Yoko Ono has absolutely no talent whatsoever as > far as I can tell... > nor do you, if that's the extent of your capacity for creative discernment. you might look up a little movement called "fluxus" in something other than a world book encyclopedia. andy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:24:25 -0600 From: "Ciscon, Ray" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Yoko Ono Andy wrote: > Yoko Ono has absolutely no talent whatsoever as > far as I can tell... > nor do you, if that's the extent of your capacity for creative discernment. you might look up a little movement called "fluxus" in something other than a world book encyclopedia. Andy ================ Ouch! (Putting out the flames) Andy my lad, I apologize if you took my obvious (at least to me) tongue in cheek comment about Ms. Ono personally. Considering the fact you don't know me from Adam, your claims to the extent of my talent appeared to be stated in all seriousness. But then again, I don't claim to be an artist, and I've never claimed to be one, much less an admirer of an elitist art movement. I actually own recordings by Yoko Ono, and I don't like them. At all. Not my cup o' tea. What I do know is that I've read enough, and seen enough to know that Yoko Ono's relationship with John Lennon was not a healthy one, and certainly shortened the creative life of a FAR better artist than she ever was or will be. Those are my opinions. My opinions and a dime won't get me on a bus. But I'm as much entitled to them as anyone else. I never mean to offend anyone purposely, which I obviously did, but I also have an instinctual need to defend myself, which I did. I apologize if I angered or bored anyone. Sincerely, Ray (I may not know how to discern creative thingies, but I know what I like) Ciscon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:07:24 -0800 (PST) From: Rick Hindman Subject: [idealcopy] OT - This weeks picks and a promise!!! So fellow copyists.... Here is my latest 'top 20' picks for the work week! And I apologize for the MP3 thing and rest assured, it won't happen again! I wasn't aware that attachments were such a big deal, but can see that clearly, now. And thanks for the minimal amount of snarky comments!! And without further ado... Love and Rockets - Lift Bel Canto - Birds of Passage David Bowie - Low The Cult - Love Robert Fripp - A Blessing Of Tears Genesis - A Trick of the Tail Robyn Hitchcock & the Egyptians - Respect Tony Levin - Waters of Eden Ministry - A Mind is a Terrible Thing to Taste Peter Murphy - Cascade Nine Inch Nails - Broken Radiohead - Kid A The Residents - Diskomo 2000 KMFDM - Adios UK - s/t Wire - Pink Flag Todd Rundgren - Nearly Human Southern Culture on the Skids - Ditch Diggin' Split Enz - Time and Tide Switchblade Symphony - Serpentine Gallery Yes - 90125 U2 - Achtung, Baby Hasta for now RJH Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:22:36 -0800 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - This weeks picks and a promise!!! >And I apologize for the MP3 thing and rest assured, it >won't happen again! I wasn't aware that attachments >were such a big deal, but can see that clearly, now. >And thanks for the minimal amount of snarky comments!! > Awww - does this mean I can't flame you now? (^_-) Actually, I was surprised at the restrait of this list. Kudos to all - most lists would have flamed poor Rick within an inch of his life. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:50:18 -0800 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - This weeks picks and a promise!!! >Actually, I was surprised at the restrait of this list. Kudos to all - ->most lists would have flamed poor Rick within an inch of his life. And, of course, I can't type today. Should have been "restraint" not "restrait". Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 19:34:46 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy]Section 25 Fans of Factory obscurica will be delighted to learn that Section 25 have "done a Wire" and reformed. They've also done their own "Third Day" and recorded some new songs (plus a couple of oldies) which are available as free MP3 downloads from the SXXV web site (see bleow for details). Very much a back-to-basics approach - the new stuff is very much in the vein of the first two albums, rather than the later electronic stuff. New line-up is something of a Factory fringe supergroup with an ex-Tunnelvisioner on guitar. They're threatening gigs later this year....will keep you posted. Mark >>WHAT?! 6 high quality (192kbps) new tracks recorded by Section 25 in December, 2000 & January, 2001 taken from the HiSpace disk. SECTION 25: Larry Cassidy Bass & vocals Vin Cassidy Drums & percussion Jenny Ross Keyboards & vocals Ian Butterworth Guitar FEATURE PRESENTATION: ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ SANDWICH "A riff within a riff...Poise equals power, but too edgy at the moment for tangible lyrics. We all begin to count to ten..." ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ NEW HORIZON "Still hits the spot...Like it or not..." ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ GENE "A stalker of a rhythm adorned with hobo-slang...Dedicated to one Eugene Vincent Craddock" ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ELDERBERRY TWIST "Instrumental recorded whilst waiting for Divine Inspiration...Nearly called Pink Flamingos" ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ HAUNTED "Larry inserts a coin in the "angry meter" and unleashes venom on that thing called memory..." ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ENDGAME "Guitar-driven and pushed along with helpful assistance from the rest of the ensemble...Cold drinks were taken immediately when the song stopped!" WHERE TO DOWNLOAD: http://www.section25.com/ ...and follow the MP3s link... FORTHCOMING ATTRACTIONS: * New images of Section 25 * More MP3s * New recordings * Online fan club with provate member's area * Online discussion board * Website redesign * Gigs later this year * Freedom from the cycle of rebirth * etc., THE END: Section 25 info@section25.com http://www.section25.com/ << ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 21:33:18 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Adventurous Bands On Mon, 29 Jan 2001, Ciscon, Ray wrote: > > Malka has talent you see, Yoko Ono has absolutely no talent whatsoever as > far as I can tell... > > Ray (Who can't forgive Yoko like some people can't forgive Nixon) Ciscon For what? Surely you don't believe the old line that she "broke up the Beatles"? The Beatles would have broken up in any event - for four people to remain productively working together from their teens into their thirties, with all the changes that go along, is very rare. (Wire were smart enough to break up several times.) As for Ono's talent, I won't speak to her musical talent, because I don't have any of her records (although she's been fairly influential in the avant-garde wing of, uh, "rock" or whatever one might call it), but her conceptual art work, associated with the Fluxus group, is still held in fairly high regard - and she was doing that stuff before she'd met Lennon. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::can you write underwater on liquid paper?:: __Zippy__ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:22:13 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Yoko Ono > What I do know is that I've read enough, and seen enough to know that Yoko > Ono's relationship with John Lennon was not a healthy one, and certainly > shortened the creative life of a FAR better artist than she ever > was or will > be. You can argue over the quality of Yoko Ono's music and art stuff, but you can't ignore her huge influence on John and the masterpieces that resulted from it. Songs like I Am the Walrus wouldn't have been written if it wasn't for Ono's influenece (that's enough for me - I can't think of any others right now, but there were). As for the Malka comparison - I remember overhearing a couple of people doing that same comparison after the Immersion set at the RFH - that's one of the problems of Yoko being married to one of rock's most prominent figures: Her controversiality wasn't very good for the status of women musicians who happen to be married to musicians as well and collaborate with their husbands. Now: this is a real tough one: Does anyone on this list think that Linda McCartney had any talent? cheers, giluz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:38:18 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Yoko Ono > What I do know is that I've read enough, and seen enough to know that Yoko > Ono's relationship with John Lennon was not a healthy one, and certainly > shortened the creative life of a FAR better artist than she ever > was or will > be. I have to add another point here - what makes you say that their relationship wasn't healthy? And even if it was, why do you suppose it was Yoko's "fault"? Lennon's relationship with his first wife wasn't that healthy as well, but because of his saintly image people tend to forget that. Lennon was a genius, but not necessarily a very stable or nice person. Besides, who are we to judge and why do we bother? This is the sort of stuff more fitting for teenagers and journalists. We're in it for the music, not for the gossip, right? giluz ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #30 ******************************