From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #29 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Monday, January 29 2001 Volume 04 : Number 029 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [idealcopy] stupid pastimes ["giluz" ] RE: [idealcopy] The Velvet Underground / Filth & Fury ["giluz" ] RE: [idealcopy] OffTopic: Another new Fall collection ["giluz" ] [idealcopy] OT: Another new Fall collection [Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 11:48:23 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] stupid pastimes > All this talk a while back about Robert G. as eagle or turtle, Gilbert as > hare, etc. misses the real point - and the real point is to make the > arbitrary assumption that the members of any four-person band must each be > a particular Beatle. > > Okay, Robert Gotobed as Ringo is an easy call, and I'm going to argue for > Colin as Paul (strongest interest in pop song, melody, etc. among Wire) - > and Lewis seems to be John...but that leaves Bruce as George, and I'm not > so sure that proves anything but how pointless this exercise is. > Is Mike Thorne George Martin, then? And are all the other producers Wire had in the 80's a combination between Phil Spector and Jeff Lynne? Maybe Colin should be George (Harrison) 'cause he went to India. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 12:22:41 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] The Velvet Underground / Filth & Fury > Wire...phenomenal influence on much of what passes for left-field modern > music. Status comparable to Velvet Underground etc. > > No contest, mate! Absolutely right. Funny that you should mention the VU. I'm just reading Cale's biography, and been playing all of the old VU and Cale stuff which I haven't listened to in years. It always annoys me to hear how Lou Reed ruined it all with his ego games, not realising that the combination between his songwriting talents and Cale's avant-garde musical ideas was the whole point about the VU. Nothing the VU has done after Reed kicked Cale out even compares to Venus In Furs, All Tomorrow's Parties or Sister Ray. Even with those two first albums, the VU never really lived up to their true potential, which is amazing, considering their phenomenal influence on everything that happened later in music. I also think Sterling Morrison and Moe Tucker are way underrated as instrumentalists. Completely different subject (or is it?): Has anyone yet seen Julien Temple's Filth and the Fury (I think that's the name - the new movie he's done about the Sex Pistols)? It started to show here and got quite good reviews. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 05:46:17 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Wirral In a message dated 27/01/01 22:45:23 GMT Standard Time, Scott@kellock42.freeserve.co.uk writes: << Well Done Tranmere....congrats Nigal Blackwell and the boys! a band who come a close second to wire "Half Man Half Biscuit" , What do you think ? >> ////// i saw margi clarke honking "je ne regrette rien" backed up my HMHB on TV a couple of years ago. it was tragic. well , they had their moments. but if wire = #1 then i can think of a few dozen better candidates for the top ten. or is it just post-match euphoria?p (not too overwhelmed with a demolition of QPR. and i bet mark is sulking today) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 05:56:05 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Velvet Underground / Filth & Fury In a message dated 28/01/01 10:19:03 GMT Standard Time, giluz@nettalk.com writes: << Completely different subject (or is it?): Has anyone yet seen Julien Temple's Filth and the Fury (I think that's the name - the new movie he's done about the Sex Pistols)? It started to show here and got quite good reviews. ////// well i really enjoyed it , if you look at the r'n'r swindle as the mclaren version then this is the band version. lots of unseen footage , swindle outtakes , new interviews etc etc. i saw its been released on video here but as it was made by film 4 i guess it'll be on tv soon. WARNING ; to those of a nervous disposition , it does include sting in a gay sex scene. possibly the pinnacle of his "acting" career. p ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 09:41:43 -0500 From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - Hey! Look what I did! >OK- I actually attached it THIS time! Please don't. Some people might not appreciate receiving a 1 Mb attachment. Some people have their mailboxes limited and your huge file might cause them to lose their important mail (my hotmail box is limited to 2M and my archive is about 1.5M... I HATE people who email me MP3 files!) The smart list software removed it (at least in the digest version that I'm getting) so that all I saw was: >[demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type audio/mpeg which had a >name of Garbage3.mp3] Congratulations to smoe.org! I think this is the best way of handling such attachments! The *proper* way to distribute music file is to upload them somewhere and let people know where they can download it. That way: - - no size-limited mailboxed would be harmed - - no people who don't care about your MP3 would have to download it to their mailbox just to kill it - - people who do care can download it, say, at work where they have a better connection. If you don't have a Web site you could upload to, create a free account at one of those freedrive/idrive/xdrive/myspace/driveway .coms, upload your files there and share the username/password with us. Thank you for NOT posting MP3 files to the list in the future. Syarzhuk Be healthy, stay wealthy... Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://www.belmusic.net _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 18:07:35 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: [idealcopy] OffTopic: Another new Fall collection FALL: A World Bewitched - another Fall collection is due in the beginning of next month. From looking at the song list it looks like a collection of 90's rarities, including MES' projects with the Inspiral Carpets, DOSE, Wild Man Jan, Elastica, etc. Also contains some B sides like Blood Outta Stone & Why Are People Grudgeful. Released on Artful, their current label on 5/02. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 11:27:45 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Velvet Underground / Filth & Fury Giluz, << Absolutely right. Funny that you should mention the VU. I'm just reading Cale's biography, and been playing all of the old VU and Cale stuff which I haven't listened to in years. It always annoys me to hear how Lou Reed ruined it all with his ego games, not realising that the combination between his songwriting talents and Cale's avant-garde musical ideas was the whole point about the VU.<< The VU reunion came at the right/wrong time....in that Lou was on a crap ego trip at the time, so fell out with Cale big time... though if they'd left it any longer Sterling would have bben dead and there would have been no reunion at all. Nothing the VU has done after Reed kicked Cale out even compares to Venus In Furs, All Tomorrow's Parties or Sister Ray. << Not sure I agree with that. Try What Goes On from live 69. I like the third album and Loaded has its moments too. >>Even with those two first albums, the VU never really lived up to their true potential, which is amazing, considering their phenomenal influence on everything that happened later in music. << Too far ahead of the game. In the context of the 60s, that stuff was never going to be commercially successful. It took 10 years for music to catch up. >>I also think Sterling Morrison and Moe Tucker are way underrated as instrumentalists. >> Love them both. Moe'n'Sterling define the VU sound. That was the amazing thing about the reunion tour (saw the T&C gig in London). No other band could make that noise. Going to see John Cale solo next month at the QEH by the way...anyone else going? Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 11:30:16 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Wirral Paul, << ////// i saw margi clarke honking "je ne regrette rien" backed up my HMHB on TV a couple of years ago. it was tragic.<< Sounds dismal.... >>well , they had their moments. but if wire = #1 then i can think of a few dozen better candidates for the top ten. or is it just post-match euphoria?p (not too overwhelmed with a demolition of QPR. and i bet mark is sulking today) >> Grizzle. Moan. Grump. At least we played well and lost, which makes a change. Mark (concentrating on the league) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 11:33:37 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] HMHB Scott, << Novelty Joke Band!!! never, You obviously don't own the collection. Scott p.s. Don't take life so serious ( Have a Laugh) Cheers >> I don't take life seriously. But music's another matter ;-) Cheers, Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 16:34:20 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Golden Road Furniture Combo Alloyed in 40 Versions :-) Jeff told a Beatless joke >>>>Lewis seems to be John...but that leaves Bruce as George, and I'm not so sure that proves anything but how pointless this exercise is. But if Bruce is George then it could be something like Gilbert & George the artists who painted themselves gold & sang 'Underneath the Arches' for 7 years or something (was it a tribute to lamonte Young? No!) Let me now pointlessly compare the members of Wire and perhaps also the 'mysterious fifth letter' Paul Kendall with items of furniture. Bruce = small electric light Graham = fully stocked drinks cabinet Robert = the well tuned washing machine Colin = sturdy table (to meet under) Paul = ? (well he was going to be a chair but as we all know, chairs missing) George Gill makes a pointless early appearance as occasional hat stand. Next up? Wire as a selection of delicious organic vegan ice cream flavours! Ray asked >>>> Are there any bands out there now that have the same spirit of adventure and experimentation that Wire has??? Check out the new Silo Cd 'Alloy' on Swim - out in March - those Danes make it all sound just like a sofa - - so easy! Hard to imagine any Wire fan disliking it - don't let the mention of metallica as an influence on Silo put you off either, its a total red herring! Also try pan sonic Boredoms Melt Banana Einsturzende Neubauten Otomo Yoshihide & Ground Zero Faust the list is too long... I'd be surprised if anyone who likes both Wire & Kraftwerk didn't also like Silo, Symptoms, Autechre, Kreidler, Tarwater, To Rococo Rot, Trans Am... Then again... I haven't heard much Death in Vegas, but I do have the Scala single 'Slide' (Too Pure) which features both a remix by them & Bruce Gilbert (Gilbert one is a must!) The silly sod chucked cup @ Colin in garage >>>He explained that he threw the missile because he didn't like the 2000 version of Wire's interprtation of 40 Versions! And they dropped 40V from the set by Edinburgh! Let us hope the well furnished ones have not finally succumbed to 'skinhead pressure'. Paul - Nervepath - open it!!!!! But don't boil for too long first as it may impair the sculpture!!!!! My hats remain firmly locked away! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine webzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 11:35:12 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OffTopic: Another new Fall collection Giluz, << FALL: A World Bewitched - another Fall collection is due in the beginning of next month. From looking at the song list it looks like a collection of 90's rarities, including MES' projects with the Inspiral Carpets, DOSE, Wild Man Jan, Elastica, etc. Also contains some B sides like Blood Outta Stone & Why Are People Grudgeful. Released on Artful, their current label on 5/02. >> Sounds like a companion to A Past Gone Mad..... No good for sad completists like me though...though I don't think I've got the Wild Man Jan stuff... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 19:04:20 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: [idealcopy] RE:OffTopic: The Velvet Underground / Filth & Fury > The VU reunion came at the right/wrong time....in that Lou was on > a crap ego > trip at the time, so fell out with Cale big time... though if > they'd left it > any longer Sterling would have bben dead and there would have > been no reunion > at all. Yeah, I've got a friend who's been to one of the reunion gigs, and she said that Reed treated the velvets as his backup band - what a stupid notion, but that's the way he treated them from the beginning. Funnily enough, it didn't feel like that in Songs For Drella. From this album you got the sense that Reed & Cale really collaborated equally (it was all done in a matter of few weeks - Reed's ego problem probably needs more time than that, or maybe the whole project caught him unprepared). > > Nothing the VU has done after Reed kicked Cale out even compares > to Venus In > Furs, All Tomorrow's Parties or Sister Ray. << > > Not sure I agree with that. Try What Goes On from live 69. I like > the third > album and Loaded has its moments too. They have their moments and I love those albums, but they don't have that avant-garde revolutionary scent that the two first albums had. There isn't a strong enough musical presence to equal Reed's lyrics - it all sounds too soft, and sometimes even as bad as country-rock (especially on Loaded). Let's rephrase what I said: The later velevets albums don't even compare to Reed's great solo albums from the 70's, while the 2 first albums are probably the best stuff he's ever done. > Going to see John Cale solo next month at the QEH by the > way...anyone else > going? What's he doing now? I kinda had enough of his guitar/piano solo concerts. I didn't even go to see him a couple of years back in Israel. Cale is quite appreciated in israel, but mainly because of his late-night melancholy slow songs like Close Watch. You can't play songs like Sabotage or Mercenaries on solo guitar, and the versions he does now for songs like Leaving it Up To You just make me yearn for his full band gigs I've seen in 1985, probably the most manic and intense I've ever seen. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 19:34:55 -0000 From: "Garry Phillipson" Subject: [idealcopy] Adventurous Bands I haven't seen anyone mention Soul Coughing yet - to me they're one of the few to stand alongside Wire for adventure, experimentation - and let's not forget ridiculous lyrics.... I'll scratch you raw L'etat c'est moi I drink the drink And I'm wall to wall I absorb trust like a love rhombus I feel I must elucidate I ate the chump with guile Quadrilateral I was Now I warp like a smile (from Soul Coughing's 'Bus to Beelzebub'). Who else - apart from Newman - can you imagine singing that with a straight-ish face? Garry www.astrozero.btinternet.co.uk > Ray wrote > > a lot of agreeable comments about crap bands > > > > Are there any bands out there now that have the > same > > spirit of adventure and > > experimentation that Wire has??? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 12:30:05 -0800 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OffTopic: Another new Fall collection > FALL: A World Bewitched - another Fall collection is due in the beginning of > next month. From looking at the song list it looks like a collection of 90's > rarities, including MES' projects with the Inspiral Carpets, DOSE, Wild Man > Jan, Elastica, etc. Also contains some B sides like Blood Outta Stone & Why > Are People Grudgeful. Released on Artful, their current label on 5/02. Is their current label Artful or Eagle? I'm confused now...(^_^) (And, who the heck is Cog Sinister?) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 01:40:54 GMT From: timrobinson@cwcom.net Subject: [idealcopy] Off Topic-Felt I'm reading David Cavanagh's 'Creation Records Story' at the moment. (Highly recommended by the way. extensive, well researched, witty and informative etc etc..) and i've been reading about Felt. They are one of these bands I keep reading good things about but never got around to buying anything by. They had a pretty hefty catalogue. Anyone want to recommend a good starting off point? If it helps I've heard some of the stuff by Denim (post Felt solo thing) and I wasn't keen, but I've heard some of their earlier stuff was terrific. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 21:15:42 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Off Topic-Felt Tim, << I'm reading David Cavanagh's 'Creation Records Story' at the moment. (Highly recommended by the way. extensive, well researched, witty and informative etc etc..) and i've been reading about Felt. They are one of these bands I keep reading good things about but never got around to buying anything by. They had a pretty hefty catalogue. Anyone want to recommend a good starting off point? If it helps I've heard some of the stuff by Denim (post Felt solo thing) and I wasn't keen, but I've heard some of their earlier stuff was terrific. >> I love Felt. A brilliantly skewed take on what'd now be described as "indie"....produced by a genuine English eccentric pop nutter. Best ever band from Birmingham. Four albums are essential... (all have hugely pretentious titles BTW) Crumbling the Antiseptic beauty. First album, just six tracks. Defines the early sound - intricate, heavily reverbed guitar, alsmost surf-classical, with thumping, snareless, cymbal-less drums.... The strange idols pattern and other short stories. Third album, much more a pop record, but with fantastic three-minute songs interspersed with odd guitar interludes. Both these come as two-fers on CD, so you also get The splendour of Fear (second album - somewhere between 1 and 3!) and Ignite the Seven Cannons, which contains the nearest they ever came to a hit due to the presence of Liz Frazer on backing vocals. Forever breathes the lonely word. The most perfect Felt album. Start here. Me and a monkey on the moon. Last album, and the biggest production. Avoid the two instrumental albums (Let the snakes crinkle their heads to death, which sounds like the house band from the Sooty show playing Doors covers, and Train above the city...jazz...nice). There are also a number of compilations of singles etc, all of which are worthwhile. Avoid Denim....the first album has a few decent songs, but the two subsequent albums are dismal 70s pastiches. And especially avoid Lawrence's last album, released as Go-kart Mozart, which is one of the worst records ever made, and contains a song about the Queen Mother's hip replacement operation. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 11:03:29 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Adventurous Bands > I haven't seen anyone mention Soul Coughing yet - to me they're one of the > few to stand alongside Wire for adventure, experimentation - and let's not > forget ridiculous lyrics.... I don't own anything by them but anything I heard was really good - certainly one of the best bands around nowadays. Besides, their drummer's from Israel. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 11:07:50 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OffTopic: Another new Fall collection > Is their current label Artful or Eagle? I'm confused now...(^_^) I think it's Artful. Wasn't Eagle their label a few albums back? It's really hard to keep track. Their labels get more and more obscure over the years and they keep changing them as often as possible. Maybe it's all just a show-off: They have their own label and they just change the name once in a while to make it more interesting. > > (And, who the heck is Cog Sinister?) Another mystery. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 01:12:38 -0800 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OffTopic: Another new Fall collection > I think it's Artful. Wasn't Eagle their label a few albums back? See, that's what I thought too, except that The Unutterable is on Eagle.... > They have their own label and they just change the name once in a > while to make it more interesting. > > > (And, who the heck is Cog Sinister?) > > Another mystery. See - that's what I thought Cog Sinister was - Mark's own label. The Ununtterable CD I have is copyright Cog Sinister. Hmmm. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 01:19:58 -0800 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Adventurous Bands > > I haven't seen anyone mention Soul Coughing yet - to me they're one of the > > few to stand alongside Wire for adventure, experimentation - and let's not > > forget ridiculous lyrics.... > > I don't own anything by them but anything I heard was really good - > certainly one of the best bands around nowadays. Besides, their drummer's > from Israel. > Well, their drummer was from Israel. Come to think of it, he's still from Israel. But, he's no longer their drummer, since, unfortunately, Soul Coughing broke up. Still, you might find some cool stuff at their site - http://www.soulcoughing.com I am glad that I got a chance to see them live once. I was sorta dragged there - I hadn't heard enough of them to really want to go - but I'm glad I went. Amazing band live. Cheers, Paul "El Oso Quiere Miel!" - chanted by M. Dougherty during the last Soul Coughing tour ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 09:14:22 +0000 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: [idealcopy] OT: Another new Fall collection Extricate is on Cog Sinister. 1993, I think??? Chris. "Paul Pietromonaco" on 28/01/2001 20:30:05 To: "IdealCopy" cc: (bcc: Chris Ray/IT/MEDAS) Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OffTopic: Another new Fall collection > FALL: A World Bewitched - another Fall collection is due in the beginning of > next month. From looking at the song list it looks like a collection of 90's > rarities, including MES' projects with the Inspiral Carpets, DOSE, Wild Man > Jan, Elastica, etc. Also contains some B sides like Blood Outta Stone & Why > Are People Grudgeful. Released on Artful, their current label on 5/02. Is their current label Artful or Eagle? I'm confused now...(^_^) (And, who the heck is Cog Sinister?) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #29 ******************************