From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #26 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Friday, January 26 2001 Volume 04 : Number 026 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] OT : Pavement [John Roberts ] Re: [idealcopy] OT : Pavement [John Roberts ] [idealcopy] Re:so and slow [Howard Spencer ] Re: [idealcopy] OT : digital firsts/other bands [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] [idealcopy] New Silo quick review ["giluz" ] [idealcopy] Re:lo-fi ["squonk" ] RE: [idealcopy] OT : digital firsts/other bands [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] so & slow [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OT : The Australian Wire Show [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OT : digital firsts/other bands [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Re:lo-fi [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OT : The Australian Wire Show [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy] OT : re Pavement ["ian jackson" ] RE: [idealcopy] OT : digital firsts/other bands ["giluz" ] [idealcopy] Ash International Night Feb 8 [=?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowlan] [idealcopy] Pavement and Loaf [=?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= ] RE: [idealcopy] OT : Fall/Levitation ["giluz" ] Re: [idealcopy] OT : Beefheart [Mark Short ] RE: [idealcopy] OT : Beefheart [David Turnbull ] [idealcopy] OT : Beefheart ["ian jackson" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re:lo-fi [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Re:lo-fi [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OT : Beefheart [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OT : Levitation [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OT Re:lo-fi [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OT Re:lo-fi [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] [idealcopy] OT - silo #2 - headphones buzz ["giluz" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re:so and slow ["scott kellock" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re:lo-fi ["dan bailey" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re:so and slow [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OT : Beefheart [Paul Pietromonaco ] Re: [idealcopy] OT Quiet gig etiquette breachers (was ASilverMtZ) [Tim Ro] Re: [idealcopy] OT Quiet gig etiquette breachers (was ASilverMtZ) [Rick ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 01:36:22 -0800 (PST) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT : Pavement Dan The 'Australian' prefix relates to the first wave of tribute bands that appeared in the UK in the 80s: i.e. Australian Pink Floyd, Australian Doors, and Australian Stooges. And no, I don't know if they were *really* Australian! John - --- dan bailey wrote: > If they're coming off as the Australian *any*thing > they deserve some sort of > credit, since they're from ... where? California? > Ohio? Someplace in the US, > at any rate. > > Dan, who despite himself likes Pavement's stuff > through Slanted & Enchanted > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Roberts > To: giluz ; IdealCopy > ; > MarkBursa@aol.com > Date: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 11:01 AM > Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT : Pavement > > > >I hate Pavement. They should just call themselves > The > >Australian Fall and be done with it. They get the > >North:South thing completely wrong when they > transpose > >it onto US culture in stuff like Two States. > (Which > >btw sounds like a Perverted by Language outtake > imo.) > > > >I remember Smith sacking Levitation when they > played > >support for them some years ago. I was at the gig > at > >Leicester Poly where Smith had thumped one of them > in > >the jaw. They deserved it imo: they sounded like > >Marillion. > > > >John > >Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great > prices. > >http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 01:46:42 -0800 (PST) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT : Pavement > So there's no need to "transpose" Britain's > north/south thing - their own > state has its own. I stand corrected. 8-) John Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 11:16:09 +0000 From: Howard Spencer Subject: [idealcopy] Re:so and slow >Surprised myself by stumbling across the 12" of So & Slow It Grows (including Orbital remix, of course, as well as LFO remix of Take It) in a box of import 12"s yesterday afternoon that someone had dumped at my favorite local used store ... snapped it right up, of course, even though I >bought the CD (I think off eBay, along with Vien) less than a year ago. The 12" vinyl a-side version of so and slow is a longer and IMO a better mix than the one on the CD single/first letter. I love the way the minimal blippy synth solo cuts in straight after the chorus. Important question: does anyone know if there were any `first letter' out-takes? Or did `Coatings' bring us completely up to date? Lists of `best' and `worst' albums are the last refuge of lazy music journalists with space to fill. That's the top and bottom of it. Howard ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 06:35:54 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT : digital firsts/other bands is there anybody out there into that whole Palace/Pavement/Sebadoh/Guided By Voices/Archers Of Loaf, 2nd/3rd-wave U.S. guitar thing???? ////// who were palace? p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:11:01 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: [idealcopy] New Silo quick review Just got it today on the mail, and had a first listen. It's more mature, more determined and less commercial than Instar (as if that was a commercial release). If you had on Instar one or two songs that had the conventional 4/4 beat in them, here all songs are in the more complex 5/4, 7/8, etc... (I didn't bother to count - just noticed that there wasn't a single 4/4), which is one of the reasons why their music is so interesting. You've got the same elements as in Instar - the hypnotic repetition of the drums/bass/guitar, layered on top of oscillator loops, with the new addition of electronic percussive add-ons, done in such a beautiful & subtle way. I think subtlety is the best word to describe Silo's music. You might think there's nothing much to it on the surface, besides the usual post-rock repititive patterns, but it's got depth beyond most other post-rock bands. I can already imagine myself discovering new sounds and new layers with each listen. So if you liked Instar, buy Alloy now. As far as I can tell it's at least as good, and that's before I even had more than one listen. cheers, giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 06:20:51 -0600 From: "squonk" Subject: [idealcopy] Re:lo-fi > is there anybody out there into that whole Palace/Pavement/Sebadoh/Guided By > Voices/Archers Of Loaf, 2nd/3rd-wave U.S. guitar thing???? i am not entirely certain all these bands have that much in common, other than none of them ever really appealed to me. i bought slanted and enchanted, palace songs, bee thousand on recommendations from respected friends and never 'got' any of them. will oldham might just be the jennifer lopez of alternative > Start with GBV, and with the Bee Thousand album. if you don't like that, I'd > give up on the whole lo-fi concept! exactly - though my fanatacal friend now insists that was the worst gbv to start with > I grabbed a Pale Fountains album, too, nice catch - i think they had a goal of producing one popsong single a week for a year but fell short of that mark trivially - andy diagram now plays with david thomas in 2 pale boys (of which there are 3 middle-aged men) > & wavered briefly on what I think was a live Klaus Nomi but stuck it on the shelves for later consideration) another good call ;) - i , myself have a cd reissue which is taking up valuable space anyone heard IBM? any more comments re: silo? d ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 07:23:29 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT : digital firsts/other bands Weren't pavement sacked by Mark E Smith in the middle of touring while supporting the Fall? I don't remember the reason (maybe they weren't good enough?) but I think it came as a complete shock to them. //// not good enough to support the fall? last time i saw them (worcester) they had a dire pub band doing covers like "girls on film". i could only imagine they'd been booked on price. i've seen the fall a few times and i can't recall a memorable support. i'm not a huge pavement fan but they'd have been genius in comparison.p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 07:27:09 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] so & slow In a message dated Wed, 24 Jan 2001 1:13:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk writes: << >>Tyrell (sp?) Corporation, who the hell were *they*? >>Dan Avoid them like the plague. I have a CD (bought for #1 from Mr CD). It is terrible white-trash funk. There is 1 average track on it, April In Kings Cross (this fooled me in to thinking that the album may be worthwhile). Chris. /// totally agreed. they are the kings of the dump bin and deservedly so ; i used to go out with a girl called tyrell and she bought the album out of curiousity ; it stank. limp white funk of the worst kind.p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 07:31:06 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT : The Australian Wire Show Still waiting for the Australian Wire Show! Cheers, Mark ///// well , i guess in the US they got the ex-lion tamers. they must've been a laugh.p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 08:01:42 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT : digital firsts/other bands Paul, << i've seen the fall a few times and i can't recall a memorable support. >> Used to have good supports - eg Electric Ballroom, 1983. The Smiths; Lyceum 82/Venue 83 - Felt... But recently I can't recall anybody any good..... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 08:07:37 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:lo-fi David, << > I grabbed a Pale Fountains album, too, nice catch - i think they had a goal of producing one popsong single a week for a year but fell short of that mark >> Of course Mick and John Head now trade as Shack, the unluckiest band in the world.... Pretty much trad "Britpop" sound on the face of it, but with a lot going on below the surface, and really good songwriting (if you like that sort of thing...) There's an album called Michael Head introduces the Magical World of the Strands (Shack under a different name) which is lovely. Sort of psychedelic heroin folk songs.... The guy deserves some long overdue critical acclaim IMO. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 08:09:22 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT : The Australian Wire Show Paul, << /// well , i guess in the US they got the ex-lion tamers. they must've been a laugh.p >> Yes, shame they never brought them over here.... They don't need them now, with three PF songs as setlist regulars! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:28:56 -0000 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] OT : re Pavement wow, i opened a real can of worms there, i think!?! thanks to everyone who responded, (Jeff with 2 F's, thanks for your support and superior knowledge in this little matter!, i had no idea "2 States" was about water rights!!) i tend to send personal replies so as not to clutter the list. some of you will be hearing from me soon. You'll all be pleased to know that i'm doing this to the sound of Immersion's "Oscillating" CD, which i haven't heard in a while, "Envelope" is still one of my favourite Newman-related tracks. regards, ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 16:02:10 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT : digital firsts/other bands > Paul, > > << i've seen the fall a few times and i can't recall a memorable > support. >> > > Used to have good supports - eg Electric Ballroom, 1983. The > Smiths; Lyceum > 82/Venue 83 - Felt... > I remember the Fall being supported by Suede - it was just after the release of their first single, and everyone sort of knew that they were gonna be a big hit. It was hate from first sight for me, which just grew and grew over the years, especially since they were so popular in Israel. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 09:17:51 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:lo-fi Of course Mick and John Head now trade as Shack, the unluckiest band in the world.... Pretty much trad "Britpop" sound on the face of it, but with a lot going on below the surface, and really good songwriting (if you like that sort of thing...) There's an album called Michael Head introduces the Magical World of the Strands (Shack under a different name) which is lovely. Sort of psychedelic heroin folk songs.... The guy deserves some long overdue critical acclaim IMO. Mark ///// now i did see shack support the fall in the late 80's. sorry but i thought they were really poor. i thought they did get a lot of positive press on their comeback , it was just the sales that were lacking..... p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:30:27 -0000 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] OT : Beefheart >I responded on the Beefheart point more to see if >anyone else on the list was a fan than anything else. >Doesn't appear so tho does it? ///Hi John, we'll agree to differ re Pavement then?? Regarding Beefheart maybe we should put a call out? Has he already been "dealt with" on the list though? Somebody?...out there? regards, ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:49:33 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Ash International Night Feb 8 Gig info forwarded from MSC Harding of Touch & Ash International, who released Ocsid's If I was in London I would be there! Graeme Sprawl [UK] The Global Cafi, 15 Golden Square, London W1 [Piccadilly Tube Station] 8th February 2001 S.E.T.I. Hazard The Ash International Sound System + large video screen projections + web broadcast 7:30 - 11:15 pm FREE CD for each paying entrant - HISS [Ash 5.2] - ------------- Please come! best Mike - -- MSCHarding Touch 13 Osward Road London SW17 7SS Web: http://www.touch.demon.co.uk latest info: http://www.touch.demon.co.uk/bull.htm Credit card sales hotline: +44 (0) 20 8 355 9672 or cc@touch.demon.co.uk Mail Order Catalogue: http://www.touch.demon.co.uk/dist2.htm Ash International has a new website: www.ashinternational.com ===== Cracked Machine webzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 15:12:39 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Pavement and Loaf is there anybody out there into that whole Palace/Pavement/Sebadoh/Guided By Voices/Archers Of Loaf, 2nd/3rd-wave U.S. guitar thing???? Yes. Exception: Sebadoh (they were good til Eric Gaffney was ousted) Not my favourite music but I still listen to all these occasionally. The first couple of pavement albums are particularly good! And the first Archers, GBV Alien Lanes & Bee Thousand too! LUYHats! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine webzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 15:20:41 -0000 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] OT : Fall/Levitation It seems through previous experience that if you want to support the Fall DO NOT at any cost let M.E.S. know that you're a fan. I met Levitation once, i think it was after that Fall incident. Their music was not to my taste, but they were a nice bunch of lads. I mentioned to one of them, Lawrence, that i didn't have the early Kraftwerk lp's and a week or two later, got a tape through the post. the sign of a decent human being, i'm sure you'll agree. Me and my friends have a saying... "As always, crap band, nice people though" ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 17:43:28 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT : Fall/Levitation > It seems through previous experience > that if you want to support the Fall > DO NOT at any cost let M.E.S. know > that you're a fan. I don't think you need to be a fan to have MES turn nasty on you. The best thing to do, whether you are or you're not a Fall fan, is to avoid supporting them. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 15:33:30 +0000 From: Mark Short Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT : Beefheart ian jackson wrote: > > >I responded on the Beefheart point more to see if > >anyone else on the list was a fan than anything else. > >Doesn't appear so tho does it? > I'll own up to being an occasional fan of the Captain. I was very much into him when I was 18 or so, but lost interest later. Everyone should have one of his albums, but more than one is excessive. And the "freak" image wears a bit thin. I don't know whether he had that image foisted upon him by The Man, or whether it was his own doing. One of his later guitarists, Gary Lucas, has done some solo stuff that has been quite well received, but I've not heard it myself. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 15:54:01 -0000 From: David Turnbull Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT : Beefheart Couldn't agree less about the miraculous Captain but each to his own.... Gary Lucas did an interesting set for Mixing It last year - video can be accessed here - www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/world/mixingit.shtml > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Short [SMTP:mshort@lucent.com] > Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 3:34 PM > To: idealcopy@smoe.org > Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT : Beefheart > > ian jackson wrote: > > > > >I responded on the Beefheart point more to see if > > >anyone else on the list was a fan than anything else. > > >Doesn't appear so tho does it? > > > > I'll own up to being an occasional fan of the Captain. I was very much > into him > when I was 18 or so, but lost interest later. Everyone should have one of > his > albums, but more than one is excessive. And the "freak" image wears a bit > thin. > I don't know whether he had that image foisted upon him by The Man, or > whether > it was his own doing. > > One of his later guitarists, Gary Lucas, has done some solo stuff that has > been > quite well received, but I've not heard it myself. This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC, unless specifically stated. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 15:58:20 -0000 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] OT : Beefheart mark short wrote :- >Everyone should have one of his >albums, but more than one is excessive. Come on mark, only one??? I've got quite a few and it still feels like not enough, how could anyone do without : Trout Mask, Clear Spot, Decals, Doc At The Radar Station, Safe As Milk, (insert your own choice here)... i didn't think i was that hardcore, blimey mind you, i'll have to do without "Grow Fins" for a while yet!!! i await john roberts comments with interest... ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 11:12:01 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:lo-fi Paul, << ///// now i did see shack support the fall in the late 80's. sorry but i thought they were really poor. i thought they did get a lot of positive press on their comeback , it was just the sales that were lacking..... p >> The first Shack album (Zilch) wasn't very good. Bit too 80s-tech on the production from what I remember. Saw them last year on the NME tour at the Astoria and really enjoyed the gig. Nowt wrong with crafted geeetar stuff if done properly (see also Teenage Fanclub) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 11:34:40 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:lo-fi The first Shack album (Zilch) wasn't very good. Bit too 80s-tech on the production from what I remember. Saw them last year on the NME tour at the Astoria and really enjoyed the gig. Nowt wrong with crafted geeetar stuff if done properly (see also Teenage Fanclub) Mark >> ////// i think there's a fine line between "crafted guitar music" (which can be fine) and bands just busking it with a pile of terrible byrds/dylan cliches. say travis as a prime example. or maybe the la's. i think that type of stuff has been done to death and i'm not sure there's much left interesting to do with it. p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 11:38:55 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT : Beefheart Ian, <> Probably Ice Cream for Crow.... I actually like the late period stuff best.TMR can be hard going, but Safe as Milk is as good a 60s psych-rock album as you'll hear. Good man, the Cap'n. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 11:44:13 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT : Levitation I always thought there was a slight touch of Wire about the first Levitation EP. Went downhill after that though. Terry Bickers features in the Creation records book...a very troubled individual. Had the misfortune to see the the three levitation blokes' band a couple of years ago (Dark Star). Pants. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 11:54:17 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT Re:lo-fi Paul, << ///// i think there's a fine line between "crafted guitar music" (which can be fine) and bands just busking it with a pile of terrible byrds/dylan cliches. say travis as a prime example.<< Totally agree. See also Coldplay. Also show me where the lame, whingeing "betwetting" attitude comes from. You'll not findthat in Byrds records.... Personally, I blame Morrissey. >> or maybe the la's. << Totally disagree! Brilliant band, saw them at the Marquee in about 1989, and they really nailed that updated-merseybeat sound. Started off almost acoustic and just built the sound up as the gig progressed. Superb. If they'd sequeced the album the same way it would be twice as good. >>i think that type of stuff has been done to death and i'm not sure there's much left interesting to do with it. p >> Other than just work within its constraints and produce records that put a smile on your face. Teenage Fanclub prove it's still possible, partly because they've got such a good internal editing process. You've got three songwriters who each get four songs on an album every two years. So the weak material gets weeded out. A lesson for Travis/Coldplay... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 12:04:45 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT Re:lo-fi << ///// i think there's a fine line between "crafted guitar music" (which can be fine) and bands just busking it with a pile of terrible byrds/dylan cliches. say travis as a prime example.<< Totally agree. See also Coldplay. Also show me where the lame, whingeing "betwetting" attitude comes from. You'll not findthat in Byrds records.... Personally, I blame Morrissey. >>>>> nothing against the byrds , just the legions of imitators. hate coldplay and all their limp ilk. >> or maybe the la's. << Totally disagree! Brilliant band, saw them at the Marquee in about 1989, and they really nailed that updated-merseybeat sound. Started off almost acoustic and just built the sound up as the gig progressed. Superb. If they'd sequeced the album the same way it would be twice as good. ~~~ well it started out good , but i thought some of their stuff was really derivative and i wasn't sure they were adding much new. never saw em live though.p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 19:31:49 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: [idealcopy] OT - silo #2 - headphones buzz Even more than the usual (excellent) sound of ~swim albums, Silo's mixes have a very dominant boost at the lower frequencies (approx. 90Hz, I think). That's really a good way to test your hi-fi system and see if it can cope with it. I remember a friend of mine once wanted to buy a really good hi-end hi-fi system, and he asked me to come along and have a listen to various amps and speakers. It was wicked just to see the salesman's face turn to a distinct shade of pale gray when I put the Silo CD on for reference: "What's this music? er... there's something wrong with this mix, it's not done properly, you can't expect THAT to sound good on this system" etc. I just remembered this as I played the new Silo at full volume, accompanied by a very prominent buzz on my left headphone (or maybe it's just my left eardrum), in tune with the bass guitar, reminding me that I need to buy a new set of headphones. cheers, giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 18:20:50 -0000 From: "scott kellock" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:so and slow - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard Spencer" To: ; Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 11:16 AM Subject: [idealcopy] Re:so and slow > Important question: does anyone know if there were any `first letter' > out-takes? Or did `Coatings' bring us completely up to date? > Howard > Howard, I have a Test Pressing of "the first letter" on vinyl ( mayking records ) dated the 4th Sept 91. and a promo of "So it Goes" on vinyl without a b-side (white label) if you or anyone else wants to make a bid. Will only sell to wire fan and not some collector of "Anything Rare" nut. I also own a copy of MZUI's "Waterloo Gallery" on vinyl on "Cherry Red" 1982. Talking about the Worst/Best 100 Albums," I just bought "the Vibrators" - the BBC SESSIONS it is classic Punk 10 out of 10. Cheers Scott ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:15:41 -0600 From: "Ciscon, Ray" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Re:lo-fi Paul wrote: ////// i think there's a fine line between "crafted guitar music" (which can be fine) and bands just busking it with a pile of terrible byrds/dylan cliches. say travis as a prime example. or maybe the la's. i think that type of stuff has been done to death and i'm not sure there's much left interesting to do with it. =================== I couldn't agree with Paul more. The lo-fi guitar/bass/drums 'could've been recorded live in the studio' sound dominated American so-called 'alternative' radio for the last half of the nineties, and I've had enough of it! It can range from the 'heavy grunge' end, ala Nirvana/Pearl Jam/Soundgarden to 'jangle-pop' like REM/The La's, to worthless crap in between like Blind Melon/Live/Third Eye Blind. Now of course, it's evolved into the abysmal pits of 'Heavy Metal Rap' with the likes of Eminem/Kid Rock/Korn, etc... all of it unimaginative, and all of it sounding the same. What happened to bands that would experiment in the studio? Bands that would sound different every album? Bands like Wire! Are there any bands out there now that have the same spirit of adventure and experimentation that Wire has??? Tough question... I can only think of a couple off of the top of my head... Death in Vegas, although do they count as a band? It's mostly Mr. Fearless in that one... How about the Alabama 3 (A3 for us in the US)? I've yet to pick up their second CD, but on their first one they sound different on almost every song... sweet, pretty, country, acid house music. - --- You know you're getting old when you listen to the 80's station more than the 'alternative' station. Then again it could be worse... my wife is lamenting to me that her favorite station, featuring disco hits and '70s soul has transmogrified into 'Lite Rock & Pop': Billy Joel/Nsync/Neil Diamond/Brittany Spears/Phil Collins/Whitney Houston... what I refer to as 'Music to put a gun in your mouth and pull the trigger by...' Cheers, Ray ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:39:40 -0600 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:lo-fi ... How about the Alabama 3 >(A3 for us in the US)? I've yet to pick up their second CD, but on their >first one they sound different on almost every song... sweet, pretty, >country, acid house music. The new one is, by & large, more downbeat than the first (reminding me of the Mekons' Journey to the End of the Night in that regard), but still highly recommended. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 15:55:47 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:so and slow > Important question: does anyone know if there were any `first letter' > out-takes? Or did `Coatings' bring us completely up to date? > Howard //// i mentioned before , i saw an ad once for a test pressing of a "big glue canal" 12". presumably there were other tracks/mixes intended for that release? wonder if the 2 vien tracks were recorded at the first letter sessions? (maybe that was the base material for those poppy hafler remixes?) just thoughts...... Talking about the Worst/Best 100 Albums," I just bought "the Vibrators" - the BBC SESSIONS it is classic Punk 10 out of 10. ////// hmmm , so that makes pink flag about 17/10 :-) i havn't seen this site but ABIAC seems a silly choice for a worst album chart. if a fan of straight rock was going to take the piss out of wire i'd have thought he'd aim at something "far out" like MZUI / in esse. but blimey , ABIAC is the accessible pop album. somebody send him a tape of in esse , might finish him off if we're lucky.p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:12:19 -0800 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT : Beefheart >One of his [Beefheart's] later guitarists, Gary Lucas, has done some solo stuff that has been >quite well received, but I've not heard it myself. Gary Lucas also co-wrote a couple of Jeff Buckley tunes. Mojo Pin comes immediately to mind. I can't remember the others right now. (^_^) Cheers, Paul *********************************************************** Brain: "Pinky, Are You Pondering What I'm Pondering?" Pinky: "I think so Brain, but can the gummy worms really live in peace with the marshmallow chips?" Paul Pietromonaco Test Engineer - Reflection X WRQ, Inc. E-Mail: paulp@wrq.com *********************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 03:05:18 +0000 From: Tim Robinson Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT Quiet gig etiquette breachers (was ASilverMtZ) I really enjoyed the first Godspeed gig I went to, it was in a tiny room above a mexican restaurant in Manchester. They were basically set up on the floor, at eye level, in front of us and they were magnificent. No-one dared breathe a word during the quiet bits, and even the barmaid wouldn't serve you a drink because the till bleeped too loudly! Last time I saw them they played for far too long like they were Yes or Pink Floyd. Contrary bastards! I'd taken some friends along on that good ol' premise 'you must see this band'......but they ruined it by pissing around for two and a half hours ( the band that is, not my friends!) , only to prove the theory that you *can* have too much of a good thing. On the subject of gig-ettiquette breaches, I must admit I've occasionally had recourse to recommend that certain persons standing nearby either shut up or go and chat in the bar. I've usally got my 'Beer-armour' on at this point, whereas normally I wouldn't say boo to a goose! I do seem to get oddly protective of my favourite bands after a few drinks. The only occasion this didn't have the desired effect was at a Wire gig funnily enough. It was at the Garage and some rather intense looking gentleman chucked his beer at Colin during the intro to 'Another the Letter'. I'd had a few drinks and I collared the guy as he passed me on the way to get another beer. He explained that he threw the missile because he didn't like the 2000 version of Wire's interprtation of 40 Versions! I gently suggested that he might wish to modify his behaviour or I would personally march him back into the streets of Highbury. However, minutes later he was back down the front staring manically at Colin, and I understand he attempted to gain access to the dressing room later on! Who was that then? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:36:58 -0800 (PST) From: Rick Hindman Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT Quiet gig etiquette breachers (was ASilverMtZ) For a real look into the effects of the gig-disrupters, you should check out the King Crimson sight, www.disciplineglobalmobile.com and read through Robert Fripp's diary entries entitled "kicking the wasp's nest". It's a pretty intense read, but an interesting perspective as he includes photographers and bootleggers as well. And on the last tour, a yelling idiot prompted KC to leave the stage prematurely!! Grrrrr! Hasta~ Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #26 ******************************