From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #25 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, January 25 2001 Volume 04 : Number 025 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] OT CD-WOW NEW Bargain Basement - Chart CDs @ =?iso-8859-1?Q?=A36.?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?99_inc_FREE_Delivery!?= [] [idealcopy] OT : digital firsts/other bands ["ian jackson" ] RE: [idealcopy] OT : Pavement ["giluz" ] Re: [idealcopy] OT : Pavement ["dan bailey" ] [idealcopy] "100 Worst Albums of the 20th Century" [jasonmb@calweb.com] Re: [idealcopy] so & slow ["dan bailey" ] Re: [idealcopy] so & slow [Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk] Re: [idealcopy] so & slow [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OT : Pavement [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OT : The Australian Wire Show [MarkBursa@aol.com] RE: [idealcopy] "100 Worst Albums of the 20th Century" ["giluz" ] Re: [idealcopy] OT : Pavement [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 10:32:37 +0000 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: [idealcopy] OT CD-WOW NEW Bargain Basement - Chart CDs @ =?iso-8859-1?Q?=A36.?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?99_inc_FREE_Delivery!?= Only two interested me. S Vega - 9 Objects and T Waits Beautiful Maladies. Are either of these worth getting? Chris. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ CD-WOW Are pleased to announce our new BARGAIN BASEMENT Dept. http://www.cd-wow.com/bargain.php OVER 150 Great Titles at only #6.99 inc FREE Delivery WHILE STOCKS LAST, FIRST COME FIRST SERVED. Please allow 10 days for delivery of these Special offer Bargain Basement Purchases. The Information in this communication is confidential and may be privileged and should be treated by the recipient accordingly. If you are not the intended recipient please notify me immediately. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose its contents to any other person. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 14:55:37 -0000 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] OT : digital firsts/other bands Having resisted buying a CD player for a long time,and also working on a fairly cool radio show for a couple of years, which meant i had loads of cd's but nothing to play them on, in the end i gave in and bought Captain Beefheart's " I May Be Hungry, But I Sure Ain't Weird" in 1992. Also, glad to see so many Fall, Gang Of Four, PIL, Joy Div/New Order, Magazine etc,etc, fans on the list BUT..... is there anybody out there into that whole Palace/Pavement/Sebadoh/Guided By Voices/Archers Of Loaf, 2nd/3rd-wave U.S. guitar thing???? Obviously, there are fans of Big Black/Shellac/Sonic Youth/Pixies/Husker Du, but those other bands don't seem to get mentioned at all, just curious really, not a big deal. bye, ian.s.jackson. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 10:20:27 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT : digital firsts/other bands Ian, << Also, glad to see so many Fall, Gang Of Four, PIL, Joy Div/New Order, Magazine etc,etc, fans on the list BUT.....<< Well, a lot of us are locked in to that late-70s/early 80s thang.... >> is there anybody out there into that whole Palace/Pavement/Sebadoh/Guided By Voices/Archers Of Loaf, 2nd/3rd-wave U.S. guitar thing???? Obviously, there are fans of Big Black/Shellac/Sonic Youth/Pixies/Husker Du, but those other bands don't seem to get mentioned at all, just curious really, not a big deal. >> There was a lot of discussion about GBV a while back - Rob Polland is a big Wire fan. Generally yes, I like some of the lo-fi stuff, particularly GBV and Pavement (obviously big Fall fans...) Never really got Sebadoh....some good stuff but the albums are a bit of a mess...likewise Archers of Loaf. Got a couple of albums but never really got into them. The general 'slacker' vibe gets a bit annoying unless there are really good tunes under the sludge... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 17:49:40 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT : digital firsts/other bands > Wire fan. Generally yes, I like some of the lo-fi stuff, > particularly GBV and > Pavement (obviously big Fall fans...) Weren't pavement sacked by Mark E Smith in the middle of touring while supporting the Fall? I don't remember the reason (maybe they weren't good enough?) but I think it came as a complete shock to them. > gets a bit annoying unless there are really good tunes under the sludge... Absolutely agree with you here - I do like the lo-fi attitude, though, but haven't heard any lo-fi band that's really worth my time and money. cheers, giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 07:49:49 -0800 (PST) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT : digital firsts/other bands - --- ian jackson wrote: > Having resisted buying a CD player for a long > time,and also working on a > fairly cool radio show for a couple of years, which > meant i had loads of > cd's but nothing to play them on, in the end i gave > in and bought Captain > Beefheart's " I May Be Hungry, But I Sure Ain't > Weird" in 1992. That's the outtakes from Strictly Personal isn't it? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 10:01:07 -0600 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] MOMA, Used Newman cds Tonight I'll check my >copy for any contact information. If I find anything I'll post it tomorrow. > >Michael Flaherty I did ... and there wasn't anything. Sorry. It Seems isn't that hard to find for a reasonable price on cd (used). I agree that w/ Commercial Suicide vinyl is your best bet (if you have a turn table), unless you're willing to pay a pretty high price (say 30 $ or so on Ebay for a standard used copy). Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:30:23 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT : digital firsts/other bands Giluz, << Weren't pavement sacked by Mark E Smith in the middle of touring while supporting the Fall? I don't remember the reason (maybe they weren't good enough?) but I think it came as a complete shock to them.<< I'm sure MES thought they were layabout slackers-ah! Notebooks out plagiarists! >>> gets a bit annoying unless there are really good tunes under the sludge... Absolutely agree with you here - I do like the lo-fi attitude, though, but haven't heard any lo-fi band that's really worth my time and money. >> Start with GBV, and with the Bee Thousand album. if you don't like that, I'd give up on the whole lo-fi concept! Cheers, Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 08:59:59 -0800 (PST) From: John Roberts Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT : Pavement I hate Pavement. They should just call themselves The Australian Fall and be done with it. They get the North:South thing completely wrong when they transpose it onto US culture in stuff like Two States. (Which btw sounds like a Perverted by Language outtake imo.) I remember Smith sacking Levitation when they played support for them some years ago. I was at the gig at Leicester Poly where Smith had thumped one of them in the jaw. They deserved it imo: they sounded like Marillion. John Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 19:16:27 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT : Pavement > I remember Smith sacking Levitation when they played > support for them some years ago. I was at the gig at > Leicester Poly where Smith had thumped one of them in > the jaw. They deserved it imo: they sounded like > Marillion. Oh right, it was Levitation, then (they also described themselves as Fall fans). The only thing I know by pavement was the Range Life single, which was nice enough, but not really exciting. I bought it, listened to it a few times and stashed it. cheers, giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:56:17 -0600 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT : Pavement If they're coming off as the Australian *any*thing they deserve some sort of credit, since they're from ... where? California? Ohio? Someplace in the US, at any rate. Dan, who despite himself likes Pavement's stuff through Slanted & Enchanted - -----Original Message----- From: John Roberts To: giluz ; IdealCopy ; MarkBursa@aol.com Date: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 11:01 AM Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT : Pavement >I hate Pavement. They should just call themselves The >Australian Fall and be done with it. They get the >North:South thing completely wrong when they transpose >it onto US culture in stuff like Two States. (Which >btw sounds like a Perverted by Language outtake imo.) > >I remember Smith sacking Levitation when they played >support for them some years ago. I was at the gig at >Leicester Poly where Smith had thumped one of them in >the jaw. They deserved it imo: they sounded like >Marillion. > >John >Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. >http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 09:55:01 -0800 From: jasonmb@calweb.com Subject: [idealcopy] "100 Worst Albums of the 20th Century" http://www.motorbooty.com/100/100.html 63. Wire: A Bell Is a Cup Until It Is Struck If there were a list called the 100 Worst Lists of the 20th Century, this one would have to place in the top 10. - -- Jason Borchers jasonmb@calweb.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 12:02:02 -0600 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] so & slow Surprised myself by stumbling across the 12" of So & Slow It Grows (including Orbital remix, of course, as well as LFO remix of Take It) in a box of import 12"s yesterday afternoon that someone had dumped at my favorite local used store ... snapped it right up, of course, even though I bought the CD (I think off eBay, along with Vien) less than a year ago. As noted, whoever dumped these records had amassed several hundred late-'80s/early-'90s UK & European 12"s (& a few LPs ... I grabbed a Pale Fountains album, too, & wavered briefly on what I think was a live Klaus Nomi but stuck it on the shelves for later consideration), quite a few of which I'd never heard of. Multiple copies of 12"s by some outfit called the Tyrell (sp?) Corporation, for instance, whose name I guess stuck in my head because they must've taken it from (if memory serves) the cult movie Blade Runner ... who the hell were *they*? Dan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 18:00:25 +0000 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: Re: [idealcopy] so & slow >>Tyrell (sp?) Corporation, who the hell were *they*? >>Dan Avoid them like the plague. I have a CD (bought for #1 from Mr CD). It is terrible white-trash funk. There is 1 average track on it, April In Kings Cross (this fooled me in to thinking that the album may be worthwhile). Chris. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 13:59:35 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] so & slow Dan, Crap white boy funky dance act from (I think) Manchester. Best left witrh the Klaus Nomi! Mark << Multiple copies of 12"s by some outfit called the Tyrell (sp?) Corporation, for instance, whose name I guess stuck in my head because they must've taken it from (if memory serves) the cult movie Blade Runner ... who the hell were *they*? >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 14:08:59 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT : Pavement John, << I remember Smith sacking Levitation when they played support for them some years ago. I was at the gig at Leicester Poly where Smith had thumped one of them in the jaw. They deserved it imo: they sounded like Marillion. >> Once saw the Fall play Manchester Uni. Some bloke threw a pint of beer at MES. He leapt into the crowd and strated beating the crap out of the bloke...while the band played on, accenting each blow of Mark's skinny fists on his assailant by a firmly struck drum beat, or a heavily strummed chord. Bit like on Batman, where it goes "Blamm!" when a villain gets thumped. The song was The North Will Rise Again, and I have the incident on tape somewhere. Mark shouts "Yer fuckin' ugly twat-ah!!" and off he goes. Genius. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 14:04:33 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT : The Australian Wire Show Dan, << If they're coming off as the Australian *any*thing they deserve some sort of credit, since they're from ... where? California? Ohio? Someplace in the US, at any rate. >> Ah, this is an oblique reference to the fact that over the past few years in the UK we have been overrun by "tribute" bands which play note-perfect covers of (usually) departed acts. Many of these bands come from Australia and bill themselves as "The Australian Doors Show" or "The Australian Pink Floyd Show" etc... Amusingly, Robert Forster and Grant McLennan played some gigs a while back as "The Australian Go-Betweens Show". They are, of course, the Go-Betweens, and Australian. Hence pavement could be "Tha Australian Fall Show" - though really they only ripped off Hip Priest on S&E. The rest of the stuff is far less Fall-esque, especially the last album, which I liked a lot, especially "The Hex" - oops, another Fall reference! Still waiting for the Australian Wire Show! Cheers, Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 21:20:51 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] "100 Worst Albums of the 20th Century" > http://www.motorbooty.com/100/100.html > > 63. Wire: A Bell Is a Cup Until It Is Struck > > If there were a list called the 100 Worst Lists of the 20th Century, > this one would have to place in the top 10. > It looks like all the other 100 best lists: It has some good albums in it, some bad albums too, but the best (or in this case worst) ones just fail to get there (or if they do, they're usually at no. 99). What I particularly hate is this "best/worst records in the last 100 years" thing, when the oldest album here (and on most other best/worst 100 list) is no more than 25 years old. Records exist for more than 100 years now, and even if they didn't, it's kinda silly to be dependant on the format - it's like having the 100 best films list exclude all the silents (except for some Chaplin crap maybe). But they do that too, don't they? OK, I give up. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 21:56:06 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] "100 Worst Albums of the 20th Century" Been browsing in that motorbooty site, and in their archive (http://www.motorbooty.com/library/archives.html), issue no. 1 from fall 1987, between "Necros Tour Diary Part One" and "Indie Rock Must Die" there's a piece called "What Happened to Wire?". Unfortunately, there's no link to the article. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 14:25:44 -0800 From: obie Subject: Re: [idealcopy] "100 Worst Albums of the 20th Century" But isn't this a joke site? I mean they have to be doing this to start a flame war or something , I mean "The Clash -London calling" ,"The Beatles Sergeant Pepper" "Kraftwerk- Electric Cafe" these don't even meet their "formula" that they claimed they use to rate these with. jasonmb@calweb.com wrote: > > http://www.motorbooty.com/100/100.html > > 63. Wire: A Bell Is a Cup Until It Is Struck > > If there were a list called the 100 Worst Lists of the 20th Century, > this one would have to place in the top 10. > > -- > Jason Borchers > jasonmb@calweb.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 14:41:01 -0800 (PST) From: eric719@webtv.net (Eric Strang) Subject: Re: [idealcopy] "100 Worst Albums of the 20th Century" <> Sounds to me like it's just a bunch of morons with too much time on their hands. Eric ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 14:45:52 -0800 From: Eric Nelson Subject: RE: [idealcopy] "100 Worst Albums of the 20th Century" Kraftwerk - Electric Cafe Wire - Bell is a Cup U2 - The Joshua Tree Come on...This list is pretty far fetched. Duh. - -----Original Message----- From: eric719@webtv.net [mailto:eric719@webtv.net] Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 2:41 PM To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] "100 Worst Albums of the 20th Century" <> Sounds to me like it's just a bunch of morons with too much time on their hands. Eric ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 18:07:14 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [idealcopy] "100 Worst Albums of the 20th Century" On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Eric Strang wrote: > Sounds to me like it's just a bunch of morons with too much time on > their hands. Indeed, that's Motorbooty's long-standing reputation. a ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 15:59:57 -0800 (PST) From: BillyD Subject: Re: [idealcopy] "100 Worst Albums of the 20th Century"B Something's telling me I have about 99 of these... - --- jasonmb@calweb.com wrote: > http://www.motorbooty.com/100/100.html > > 63. Wire: A Bell Is a Cup Until It Is Struck > > If there were a list called the 100 Worst Lists of > the 20th Century, > this one would have to place in the top 10. > > -- > Jason Borchers > jasonmb@calweb.com ===== . ./\/\/\. [ . . ] /\ -- -Get Well Sammy! (R)SOT Ltd. http://depechemode.acmecity.com/freestate/54 http://www.fortunecity.com/uproar/mental/111/ Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 21:56:45 -0500 From: Carl Archer Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT : Pavement 1) Pavement no longer exists 2) Pavement was from Stockton, California USA 3) Pavement admitted to being huge Fall fans and somewhat hinted at ripping them off intentionally. Carl on 1/24/01 12:56 PM, dan bailey at dpbailey@worldnet.att.net wrote: > If they're coming off as the Australian *any*thing they deserve some sort of > credit, since they're from ... where? California? Ohio? Someplace in the US, > at any rate. > > Dan, who despite himself likes Pavement's stuff through Slanted & Enchanted > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Roberts > Date: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 11:01 AM > Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT : Pavement > > >> I hate Pavement. They should just call themselves The >> Australian Fall and be done with it. They get the >> North:South thing completely wrong when they transpose >> it onto US culture in stuff like Two States. (Which >> btw sounds like a Perverted by Language outtake imo.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 23:03:57 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT : Pavement On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Carl Archer wrote: > > > 1) Pavement no longer exists > 2) Pavement was from Stockton, California USA > 3) Pavement admitted to being huge Fall fans and somewhat hinted at ripping > them off intentionally. > > Carl > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Roberts > >> I hate Pavement. They should just call themselves The > >> Australian Fall and be done with it. They get the > >> North:South thing completely wrong when they transpose > >> it onto US culture in stuff like Two States. (Which > >> btw sounds like a Perverted by Language outtake imo.) The band's origins, pointed out above, might suggest what "Two States" and, more directly by title and sometimes lyrc, "In the Mouth a Desert," "Conduit for Sale!" and especially "Unfair" are about: the battle over water rights between northern California (where the water is) and southern California (where the water isn't, or wasn't until irrigated down in huge waves through massive pipelines - and where the money and power are). Particularly in the areas of N. Cal. suffering from depressed agriculture markets, this galls - Stockton is near enough that it was probably part of the Pavement lads' b.g. So there's no need to "transpose" Britain's north/south thing - their own state has its own. - --Jeff, Pavement fan, who insists there's much more to the band than Fall ripoffs J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::I feel that all movies should have things that happen in them:: __TV's Frank__ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 00:53:03 EST From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT Quiet gig etiquette breachers (was ASilverMtZ) just to start off "on topic"...i felt the crowd at the wire gig in ny last year was very decent. as for assholes at club gigs...it seems there's almost always at least one in the crowd. the godspeed you black emperor show i saw previous to the most recent one had a guy talking at the top of his voice (and gybe play pretty darn loud!) for a good part of the show. moronic comments like "holy shit, he's playing guitar with a screwdriver! do you see that?" and "this is so cool"...save it for after the show please (or at least wait til they're between songs). the best was robyn hitchcock, though. a couple pushed their way near the front for what reason? you would think it was to see the guy they paid to see. but no. they stand at the front and start a conversation. i wish they were paying just enough attention to the stage to see the sneers on robyn's face and the daggers coming from his eyes. end of rant. i feel better. cheers, paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 00:47:48 -0800 (PST) From: kevin eden Subject: [idealcopy] Ideal Copy Posters There are still a few Ideal Copy Posters left. Anyone who has pre-ordered has their's reserved. Order now to avoid disappointment. Once they're gone, they're gone for good. GBP2.00 plus GBP1.00 P&P. UK currency, cheques, IMO's and P'O's accepted. No credit cards. Orders over GBP20.00 receive free poster on request. ===== kevin eden wmo, po box 112, stockport, cheshire, sk3 9fd, uk wmouk@yahoo.com http://wiremailorder.com/ "dreams that money can buy" Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #25 ******************************