From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #20 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Saturday, January 20 2001 Volume 04 : Number 020 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] HOX [kevin eden ] [idealcopy] OT: Gang of Four ["Syarzhuk Kazachenka" ] RE: [idealcopy] OT: Gang of Four ["Steve Speight" ] Re: [idealcopy] OT - Taking the 'Fall' ["Syarzhuk Kazachenka" ] Re: [idealcopy] Commercial Suicide [Rob Warnock ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 01:36:10 -0800 (PST) From: kevin eden Subject: [idealcopy] HOX GOOD NEWS! Belgian label R&S are to reissue the HOX CD in February. It will come in exactly the same packaging. Both WMO (UK) and WMO(US) will be holding stock. Watch this space for more details. ===== kevin eden wmo, po box 112, stockport, cheshire, sk3 9fd, uk wmouk@yahoo.com http://wiremailorder.com/ "dreams that money can buy" Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 07:11:09 -0500 From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: [idealcopy] OT: Gang of Four >is this Andy Gill of Gang of Four? Speak of the devil. I know GoF is almost as highly regarded on this list as The Fall :) What's the best album to get that "acquired taste"? I have "Shrinkwrapped" - liked it but can't remember a single song now. Also have "Mall" - boring. Started sownloading some "Entertainment" tracks on Napster - - so far my impression is that of a bad sounding Joy Division wannabe band. So what's the best album to start? Syarzhuk Be healthy, stay wealthy... Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://www.belmusic.net _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 13:46:19 +0100 From: Woerner Frank Subject: AW: [idealcopy] OT: Gang of Four > -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Syarzhuk Kazachenka [mailto:bamboo7431@hotmail.com] > Gesendet: Freitag, 19. Januar 2001 13:11 > An: idealcopy@smoe.org > Betreff: [idealcopy] OT: Gang of Four > > > >is this Andy Gill of Gang of Four? > > Speak of the devil. I know GoF is almost as highly regarded > on this list as > The Fall :) What's the best album to get that "acquired > taste"? I have > "Shrinkwrapped" - liked it but can't remember a single song > now. Also have > "Mall" - boring. Started sownloading some "Entertainment" > tracks on Napster > - so far my impression is that of a bad sounding Joy Division > wannabe band. > So what's the best album to start? Hi, if you want a general impression then go with "anthology" which also has some live tracks on it ... I saw them live in Hamburg and was very impressed. I for myself prefer the earlier albums - that's similar to my preference for Wire's PF, CM and 154. Frank ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 10:20:26 EST From: WAndyComer@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] gang of four how one could characterize gang of four's "entertainment" as the work of a "bad sounding Joy Division wannabe band" is beyond me. you'd be well advised to listen a bit closer, if you'll excuse the pun...in addition to being turned on to an inimitably unique and influential recording, you might even gain some insight into thinking without the comfort of trite platitudes. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:45:07 From: "Josh Zarbo" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Gang of Four "Bad sounding Joy Division wannabe band." Hmmmm. If you are feeling that way about Entertainment then I'd suggest either skipping the band all together or having your stereo speakers checked out. Cause you're not hearing it right. Definitely one of the greatest rock records ever made in my opinion. And the best starting point for "discovering" GOF. Good luck. > >>is this Andy Gill of Gang of Four? > >Speak of the devil. I know GoF is almost as highly regarded on this list as >The Fall :) What's the best album to get that "acquired taste"? I have >"Shrinkwrapped" - liked it but can't remember a single song now. Also have >"Mall" - boring. Started sownloading some "Entertainment" tracks on Napster >- so far my impression is that of a bad sounding Joy Division wannabe band. >So what's the best album to start? > >Syarzhuk > >Be healthy, stay wealthy... > >Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://www.belmusic.net > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:56:56 -0000 From: "Steve Speight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT: Gang of Four If you don't like Entertainment (one of the best albums of the 70's) I wouldn't bother with them. Steve A woman navigator is a woman lost - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Syarzhuk Kazachenka Sent: 19 January 2001 12:11 To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: [idealcopy] OT: Gang of Four >is this Andy Gill of Gang of Four? Speak of the devil. I know GoF is almost as highly regarded on this list as The Fall :) What's the best album to get that "acquired taste"? I have "Shrinkwrapped" - liked it but can't remember a single song now. Also have "Mall" - boring. Started sownloading some "Entertainment" tracks on Napster - - so far my impression is that of a bad sounding Joy Division wannabe band. So what's the best album to start? Syarzhuk Be healthy, stay wealthy... Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://www.belmusic.net _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 12:17:17 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wir live In a message dated Tue, 16 Jan 2001 7:43:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, Howard Spencer writes: << >>I've only ever seen the Wir videos and, yes, they're pretty bad, but I don't think they were really taking things that seriously then -- the break was immanent. << Can't agree with this at all, although I can see that the Kilburn footage of Wir might lead one to suppose it. It sounds as if I went to the same gig (mean fidder) as Mark Bursa. I was completely blown away by them (sounds as if Mark was a little more reserved about it) and it felt very intense, very committed. I would say the same of the Clapham Grand appearance in 92 - afaik their last. I recall the person I went with said to me afterwards 'I hope that they've got happy home lives' - it was very brooding and dark - absolutely no sense of going through the motions. Interesting to read in the garage interview - which, incidentally, seems to be reproduced more fully on Craig's site than it was on cracked machine - that EGL was having a bad time of it around 91/92, when doing the interviews for Kevin's book. It is one of life's regrets that I bogged off to get the bakerloo line in the middle Of a stupendous Wir encore of drill at the mean fiddler - anyone else remember this? Howard >> /// it is a huge regret of mine that i missed the kilburn/fiddler wir gigs ; i just never found out they were on. i was at "i saw you" which was brilliant.no going thru any motions there. the "graham as leader of wir ; hey he was centre stage" argument is a fascinating one. case not proven milud.p ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 09:52:31 -0800 (PST) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - Taking the 'Fall' A Sides are all the over produced pop non-hits (Victoria, Hit the North etc) with the rare decent single too (Living Too Late, CREEP). Seminal Live is a mini LP released to piss the Fall off after they jumped contract to Phonogram. It's half live and half filler unreleased studio tracks. With the exception of the Receiver compilations these are the worst two Fall albums ever released. How can you say that these are the best Fall LPs????????!!!!!! Compare Mollusc in Tyroll or the crap live versions of 2x4 and Victoria to anything on Infotainment Scan. Infotainment Scan has a lot of good original tracks: Ladybird, It's A Curse, League of Baldhead Men, Glam Racket to begin with. Best Fall LPs are: Live at the Witch Trials (paranoid tales of excessive speed intake and psychic girlfriends), Dragnet (ditto: but recorded thru one mike stood next to the crash cymbal), Grotesque (anti-music biz rants and accentuated Northern perspectives), Slates (six tracks veering more into a garde territory: tempo changes and kazoos), Totale's Turns (crucial as a document of its time: live in working men's clubs (let's see how to explain WMCs to non-UK): 'Last orders half past ten'), The Early Years compilation (for the otherwise unavailable b-sides Psycho Mafia, In My Area, 2nd Dark Age and the unbeatable original versions of Fiery Jack, Bingo Masters Breakout and Rowche Rumble), Hex Enduction Hour (the Fall at their peak imo), Wonderful and Frightening World of... (big label debut with proper production and tight tunes (even if they do rip off the Stooges)), This Nation's Saving Grace (in the same vein but more nods towards Can), Extricate (the first post Brix LP with Bramah back in and the Fall beginning to enjoy working in the studio), Infotainment Scan (post Bramah and more studio friendly: signs that MES's writing is getting back to form: 'I'm on mobile: is your house for sale?', 'If I ever end up like Ian McShane...'), Middle Class Revolt (ditto and welcome return to form for MES's lyric writing. Plus it has City Dweller). That's all you need to know about the Fall to begin with. (I'll get back in my bunker.) 8-) John - --- Syarzhuk Kazachenka wrote: > >Infotainment Scan is highly regarded. > By whom? :) > The only good tracks there are 2 or 3 covers - all > originals are boring to > hell. > For a newbie the good place to start with The Fall > would be the A Sides > compilation (also referred to by number) and > "Seminal Live" concert. > > Which brings me to a question - other than "The > Fall" - the band and > "Killing An Arab" - the song - what are the other > musical references to > Camus? > > Syarzhuk > > Be healthy, stay wealthy... > > Visit Belarusan Music Source - > http://www.belmusic.net > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 12:57:34 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - Taking the 'Fall' In a message dated Wed, 17 Jan 2001 10:58:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, MarkBursa@aol.com writes: << John, Yeah, Dragnet is good too. All the 79-83 albums are spot on... Mark ///// last fall album i bought was shift-work , just thought there were better things around than a 12th fall album (or whatever). still think witch trials is my fave , i really like that "spaced out" productionjob. great when bramah got back in the band for extricate. sad a guy who's been around so long can't get a grip on his back catalogue.p << I'd second that. But not Perverted by Language... try Dragnet. >> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 18:22:06 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Manchester Mulch Molesters Tim said >>>>in this city at least, most clubs and bars seem to rely on DJs with > an incredibly narrow musical agenda. > (usually hard house, well-worn Indie standards like Oasis or boringly > 'authentic' jazz-funk) Then Giluz said >>>>This is kinda surprising for me. I always thought the biggest advantage of big places was that there were enough people to form a quite big alternative scene. There is quite an interesting music/noise/raw beat/improv/sound art thing thriving in Manchester, comprising the likes of RSI recordings, Dan Weaver's fortnightly alectro-ecoustic evenings, Matt Wand's Hot Air label & longtime copyright flouters Stock, Hausen & Walkman, V/Vm's butchery atrocities going international, Mild Man Jan's inventive installations & Switchflicker label and many a Cd-R burning computer molester. Speedranch is growling for a new James Plotkin band Atomsmasher & Jansky Noise is back in town to offend all with mouldy old dough. Then there's the excellent Stray Light, who do a Sonic Youth kind of slow rock thing, and their guitarist's solo drone project The Double Life of Veronique. They haven't gigged since I asked them to support Bardo Pond which is a shame. They've only had CD-R's out as yet, but Elsie & Jack are releasing a Veronique Cd soon. For whatever reason Tim seems to ignore this whenever he starts one of his Manchester-is-boring diatribes. I'm not getting at Tim, far from it - the so called Manchester music scene is a smug, complacent, dated load of crap for the most part. But there noises a-rumbling which are ignored by the hype merchants and always will be. Tim's own Kids Indestructable did an entertaining techno & tambourine version of 'Frosty the Snowman' for a silly Xmas gig too, and Oceansize who headlined did a very creditable Mogwai-sation of 'Walking in the Air'! Apologies to Tim for missing his Kitchen Sink, sandwiched in between 2 Otomo Yoshihide gigs & a day spent walking around Liverpool as it was I just needed a night in to rest! Japanorama was well worth hearing twice, since only the Okinawan folkie did the same set both nights. Spent #66 on Otomo Yoshihide & Sachiko Matsubara Cd's... I'm going to have to start an aluminium diet! Anyone up for Silver Mt Zion at Planet k, manc on Sunday? Anyone heard the new Silo record yet? What Do You See? Is it illuminated? Graeme ===== Cracked Machine webzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 13:52:55 EST From: WAndyComer@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] the fall; "working men's clubs" here's your big chance to explain what a "working men's club" is to a provincial yankee. andy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:25:21 -0500 From: "Creaig Dunton" Subject: [idealcopy] Commercial Suicide Hi everyone, just a curious question...I just received a used copy of Colin's _Commercial Suicide_ CD(European Crammed Discs version), and I thought the liner notes are a little odd looking...the cover folds out with the standard production notes, pictures of the band and the 12 Belgians, but also a separate folded sheet with the lyrics and a Wire/CN discography (that stops at _Document and Eyewitness_). Was this normal, or some weird issue of it? Probably a dumb question, I know ;) And secondly, is the Patrick Codenys credited for "digital consultant" the same from Front 242? Inquiring minds want to know ;) Thanks! - --Creaig Dunton http://www.2fmp.com http://fpc.hypermart.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:50:54 -0500 From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - Taking the 'Fall' >A Sides are all the over produced pop non-hits >(Victoria, Hit the North etc) with the rare decent >single too (Living Too Late, CREEP). I think we found something perfect - two people who share a totally opposite view on the same album! I think all these "over produced pop non-hits" - Rollin' Dany, Couldn't Get Ahead, Cruisers Creek, Hit The North, Hey! Luciani, Victoria, Dead Beat Descendant, IIRC now - are brilliant. That means for any Fall LP you can ask my opinion and if I like it you need to avoid it like hell :) Just to confirm - my first Fall song was "Bingo Masters". To this day I think it's one of the best songs ever written by anybody. The second one was "Eat Yourself Fitter" and I think it's just nonsense drivel. You must be thinking of BM as "over produced pop non-hit" and of EYF as a "rare decent single", right? :) Syarzhuk Be healthy, stay wealthy... Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://www.belmusic.net _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:29:31 -0800 (PST) From: eric719@webtv.net (Eric Strang) Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Commercial Suicide Creaig Dunton wrote: <> The copy that I got here in the states is the same way. It is rather interesting. Eric ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:02:05 -0800 (PST) From: Rick Hindman Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Commercial Suicide - --- Eric Strang wrote: > Creaig Dunton wrote: > < received a used copy of > Colin's _Commercial Suicide_ CD(European Crammed > Discs version), and I > thought the liner notes are a little odd > looking...the cover folds out > with the standard production notes, pictures of the > band and the 12 > Belgians, but also a separate folded sheet with the > lyrics and a Wire/CN > discography (that stops at _Document and > Eyewitness_). Was this normal, > or some weird issue of it?>> > > The copy that I got here in the states is the same > way. It is rather > interesting. > > Eric Actually, mine is as well! And now I am starting to understand the "12 famous belgians" comments that have been batted around the site. RJH Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 22:35:52 -0600 From: Rob Warnock Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Commercial Suicide Creaig Dunton wrote: > > > And secondly, is the Patrick Codenys credited for "digital consultant" the > same from Front 242? Inquiring minds want to know ;) > >Yes. In fact around the same time there was a band named parade ground who put out an e.p. called "Dual Perspective". One side was Produced by Daniel Bressanutti from Front 242, and the other side was produced by Colin Newman, and engineered by Gilles Martin. Patrick Codenys is listed as a Digital Consultant on it as well. For an even more useless bit of trivia, the two people who made up the band were Jean-Marc Pauly and Pierre Pauly, who both eventually turned up on Front 242's "06 21 03 11 Up Evil" album. ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #20 ******************************