From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #5 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Saturday, January 6 2001 Volume 04 : Number 005 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] Impressive Beginnings [Rick Hindman ] Re: [idealcopy] Impressive Beginnings [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy] Scanner at Bang on a Can ["Tom X. Chao" ] Re: [idealcopy] Scanner at Bang on a Can [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Scanner at Bang on a Can [virgin ] Re: [idealcopy] Scanner at Bang on a Can [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Impressive Beginnings + 154 G Lewis ["ian barrett" ] [idealcopy] Roos-an-ran solo [Wireviews ] [idealcopy] Impressive Beginnings [Wireviews ] Re: [idealcopy] Roos-an-ran solo [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Impressive Beginnings [Paul Pietromonaco ] Re: [idealcopy] Impressive Beginnings [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Impressive Beginnings [Rick Hindman ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 01:37:15 -0800 (PST) From: Rick Hindman Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Impressive Beginnings hmmm... > For me, it's The Ideal Copy. The intro to The Point > Of Collapse still > sends shivers down my spine. As much as I enjoy IC, I still remember the first time I heard IBTABA. That version of 'Finest Drops', 'Eardrum Buzz' and 'German Shepards' is IT, for me! A close second is 'Chairs Missing', especially with the staccato 'Another the Letter' mixed in with the (relatively) longer songs. Cool thread, BTW! RJH ===== - ----------------------------------------------------------- "Learn to handle hot things, keep your knives sharp, and above all, have a good time. - -Julia Child - ----------------------------------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 05:38:47 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Impressive Beginnings Paul, << >Anybody any opinions on which Wire / Related album has the best opening? >> 154, without a doubt. "I should have known better" as an opening track is a masterstroke - a slow-burner, not an obvious single/live favourite. Also it was the first time you's really heard Graham sing...his previous lead vocals were more shouty songs like "Sand in my joints". I'm always disappointed with albums which start with a single. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:25:25 -0500 From: "Tom X. Chao" Subject: [idealcopy] Scanner at Bang on a Can Scanner did a short set (~25 minutes) at the Bang on a Can Marathon at BAM in Brooklyn, NY, a few weeks ago. My impression was that it was moderately interesting and probably the loudest act of the day. The potential for audience participation dancing/grooving was very much downplayed as the venue was the BAM Opera House and the listeners were seated throughout. Of particular interest to me was that Scanner's equipment (arrayed on an ordinary table) included a tiny theremin, a G3 PowerBook, and some kind of device operated with a stylus, probably a PDA. He bent over his gear and methodically manipulated the controls. As such, his set resembed the Pansonic set that opened for Wire at Irving Plaza. Oh yeah, before starting Scanner was interviewed at the front of the stage for a few minutes and he was pleasantly engaging. By the way, I'm going through another period of intense Wire discovery/re-discovery (prompted by seeing their tour), and it's great. TXC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 10:05:18 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Scanner at Bang on a Can Tom, << and some kind of device operated with a stylus, probably a PDA.<< Could have been a Stylophone ;-) >> He bent over his gear and methodically manipulated the controls. >> Mmmm, post-rock is such a thrilling, visceral live experience, isn't it. Maybe one day he'll trash his powerbook..... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 16:22:01 +0000 From: virgin Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Scanner at Bang on a Can on 5/1/01 3:05 pm, MarkBursa@aol.com at MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > Tom, > > << and some kind of device operated with a stylus, probably a PDA.<< > > Could have been a Stylophone ;-) > >>> He bent over his gear and methodically manipulated the controls. >> > > Mmmm, post-rock is such a thrilling, visceral live experience, isn't it. > Maybe one day he'll trash his powerbook..... > > Mark He played at Fareham Arts Centre back in November very personal venue (about 40 seats?) anyway I had a chat with Robin. I had a look at the stylus thing I think it's just a funky midi controller with 2 buttons and a touch sensitive strip . Black and abouth the size of a game boy. Robin Rimbaud aka Scanner aka Trawl was included on the remixes of Osillating by Immersion back in 95 best track on the first 12" IMO. they wait... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 12:26:00 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Scanner at Bang on a Can I like those sort of gadgets. Sounds a bit like a Korg Kaoss pad, which plays samples and things by moving your finger around a light pad thing....mainly aimed at dance DJ types but can often be put to more interesting use.... Mark << I had a look at the stylus thing I think it's just a funky midi controller with 2 buttons and a touch sensitive strip . Black and abouth the size of a game boy. >> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 18:41:35 -0000 From: "ian barrett" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Impressive Beginnings + 154 G Lewis Mark wrote > 154, without a doubt. "I should have known better" as an opening track is a > masterstroke - a slow-burner, not an obvious single/live favourite. Also it > was the first time you's really heard Graham sing...his previous lead vocals > were more shouty songs like "Sand in my joints". That's another thing that often interested me, and one for those who were major fans of Wire from the outset. That is, what was your first reaction in 1979 when you set the needle down, and instead of the usual Newman voice, up piped the rich, bass, well spoken but distressed Lewis vocal of "I Should Have Known Better". My route to Wire was via Colin Newman and my first Wire album was 154 purchased in early 1981. I had no preconceptions as to what to expect vocals-wise, as I didn't know a great deal by or about them, but with the vocal dominance of Newman on the previous stuff I just wondered if it was a shock at the time. Anybody around who was there at the time? Ian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 13:55:43 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Impressive Beginnings + 154 G Lewis In a message dated 05/01/01 18:47:32 GMT Standard Time, ian@ibarrett.fsnet.co.uk writes: << My route to Wire was via Colin Newman and my first Wire album was 154 purchased in early 1981. I had no preconceptions as to what to expect vocals-wise, as I didn't know a great deal by or about them, but with the vocal dominance of Newman on the previous stuff I just wondered if it was a shock at the time. Anybody around who was there at the time? Ian >> //// i bought CM , then 154 , then pink flag (funny order...). i never twigged "sand in my joints" was lewis singing for ages. 154 sounded so much weirder , intriguing , out there than CM , i used to pick out favourite tracks all the time rather than just play the whole lp. 154 is still my fave , the order of the rest often changes. and yes , all those lewis tracks were quite a surprise. i'd love to have seen the recording sessions , must have been a real job keeping it all together.p ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 19:38:09 -0000 From: "Stephen JC Sheen" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Impressive Beginnings + 154 G Lewis >>What was your first reaction in 1979 when you set the needle down, and instead of the usual Newman voice, up piped the rich, bass, well spoken but distressed Lewis vocal of "I Should Have Known Better". My route to Wire was via Colin Newman and my first Wire album was 154 purchased in early 1981. I had no preconceptions as to what to expect vocals-wise, as I didn't know a great deal by or about them, but with the vocal dominance of Newman on the previous stuff I just wondered if it was a shock at the time. Anybody around who was there at the time? Ian<< As I remember it things were quite different in the 1970s - the LPs were the ultimate stage of the creative process, and their content would be familiar in advance of release to those who had access to the shows. Wire performances might have been timed to coincide with the promotion of the LPs, but would long ago have left behind the songs on the LP in question and comprised new material. So the 154 songs that were played live would have been featured well in advance of the LP, on the tour following the release of Chairs Missing, and then left behind. All the Pink Flag and Chairs Missing material would have been cleared out of the set by then, and there was no concept of "live favourites", except perhaps for the ironic retention of 12XU. So the release of 154 would not have caused great surprise amongst those who had attended the performances. I certainly remember the impact of the shows at Barbarellas in Birmingham, with Robert promoted to the stage front, Colin screaming that we had been defaced more than the first listen to 154 and Graham verging on the terrifying for the whole performance. I remember 154 as being a confirmation of views already held as to the status of the group. Haven't got any setlists from the period to confirm that I am not talking total bollocks through fading memory. Probably find now that "I should have known better" wasn't included in the set and would have been heard for the first time on the LP. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 15:30:15 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Impressive Beginnings + 154 G Lewis Stephen and Ian, << >>What was your first reaction in 1979 when you set the needle down, and instead of the usual Newman voice, up piped the rich, bass, well spoken but distressed Lewis vocal of "I Should Have Known Better". My route to Wire was via Colin Newman and my first Wire album was 154 purchased in early 1981. I had no preconceptions as to what to expect vocals-wise, as I didn't know a great deal by or about them, but with the vocal dominance of Newman on the previous stuff I just wondered if it was a shock at the time. Anybody around who was there at the time? Ian<< Well, you knew from bootlegs that Graham sang. Also I was aware it was him on Sand in my joints. And I'd heard the Peel session before 154, which is very different, especially with Colin singing The Other Window (rather than Bruce on 154 - now THAT was a surprise!!) >>As I remember it things were quite different in the 1970s - the LPs were the ultimate stage of the creative process, and their content would be familiar in advance of release to those who had access to the shows. Wire performances might have been timed to coincide with the promotion of the LPs, but would long ago have left behind the songs on the LP in question and comprised new material. So the 154 songs that were played live would have been featured well in advance of the LP, on the tour following the release of Chairs Missing, and then left behind. << Spot on. Not that I ever got to see tham back then - they never played near enough to me. But the Hull bootleg was floating around at the time (AKA Mittnacht Bahnhof Cafe Nostalgia) so you knew they had a whole load of new songs. That was recorded about three months before 154 came out, and features about 3 154 tracks. >>All the Pink Flag and Chairs Missing material would have been cleared out of the set by then, and there was no concept of "live favourites", except perhaps for the ironic retention of 12XU.<< Only revived for the D&E gig? Very little PF stuff survived into 79, but quite a lot of CM (I feel mysterious, Heartbeat, Another the letter etc). The German TV gig (Feb 79) is pretty much a 154 set. By July, the D&E 12in/Turns & Strokes stuff all appeared. >>So the release of 154 would not have caused great surprise amongst those who had attended the performances. I certainly remember the impact of the shows at Barbarellas in Birmingham, with Robert promoted to the stage front, Colin screaming that we had been defaced more than the first listen to 154 and Graham verging on the terrifying for the whole performance. I remember 154 as being a confirmation of views already held as to the status of the group. Haven't got any setlists from the period to confirm that I am not talking total bollocks through fading memory. Probably find now that "I should have known better" wasn't included in the set and would have been heard for the first time on the LP. >> ISHKB was in the set around late 78/early 79 I think. I have a live recording of it, which is quite different to the album - slower, and a lot more miserable with just guitars and no keyboards. More Bruce vocals!!! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 15:34:47 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Impressive Beginnings + 154 G Lewis Paul, From what I can remember, I acquired PF and CM through swapping them with some other kid who didn't like them because they weren't punky enough, or too boring or something. Swap may have involved a David Bowie album, and possibly No More Heroes by the Stranglers. Can't remember. 154 was the only one I bought in a shop, on the day it came out (so I got the free EP). Mark << i bought CM , then 154 , then pink flag (funny order...). >> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 12:45:32 -0800 (PST) From: Wireviews Subject: [idealcopy] Wireviews January 2001 update Hi all The first Wireviews of 2001 is now online, with the following new/updated stuff: - -- Review of Ocsid's Opening Sweep - -- Two reports of Wire's gig in Edinburgh, plus images - -- Updated A List - -- Latest Wire news, including WMO's future and the Swim~ non-space Best Craig. ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. Snub.Comms: http://welcome.to/snub Veer Audio: http://listen.to/veer - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 12:48:46 -0800 (PST) From: Wireviews Subject: [idealcopy] Wire in NME >Review of Wire's Edinburgh gig in NME. >Describes Bruce Gilbert as wearing >"Bastard" T shirt- surely CN? Yes, unless Gilbert is also wearing an 'Impossible Mission'-style Colin Newman rubber mask. This is about the third time in the last year or so that the mainstream press has got Colin and Bruce mixed-up: it's not as though they are identical twins, or anything! Thorough reporting, indeed. >And did they play "Reuters"? Not unless the set-list I got was very innaccurate!!! Craig. ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. Snub.Comms: http://welcome.to/snub Veer Audio: http://listen.to/veer - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 12:53:49 -0800 (PST) From: Wireviews Subject: [idealcopy] Roos-an-ran solo Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 21:32:28 -0000 From: "ian barrett" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OnTopic: Bruce / Graham solos recommendations >Giluz I'd agree with most, though not all, of >what MarkBursa says (and I'm jealous >about the 99p In Esse). Hmph: I'm not. I'd say 99p for that album is still expensive! Ab Ovo is a far better Bruce, as is a lot of the earlier stuff, such as Shivering. If only Mute hadn't sliced so many tracks of the reissue. >To both of you I'd say that He Said Omala - >'Catch Supposes' contains some >of Lewis's best work; Yep: only Hox is better, IMO (and the best thing Graham has ever done), but seeing as that's now criminally OOP, the earlier Origin stuff will probably have to satisfy you for now. Craig. ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. Snub.Comms: http://welcome.to/snub Veer Audio: http://listen.to/veer - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 12:56:15 -0800 (PST) From: Wireviews Subject: [idealcopy] Impressive Beginnings >Anybody any opinions on which Wire / Related >album has the best opening? Like Ray, I would say Ahead. Maybe it is the best and maybe it isn't, but it's the song that got me into Wire and gave me goose-bumps the first time I heard those four chords chang out. And subsequent times, too, now I come to think about it. It's certainly a song to grab the attention... Craig. ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. Snub.Comms: http://welcome.to/snub Veer Audio: http://listen.to/veer - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 16:23:31 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Roos-an-ran solo Craig, Well, I've bought worse albums for more and better albums for less ;-) And it looks nice on the shelf next to Ab Ovo. Mark << Hmph: I'm not. I'd say 99p for that album is still expensive! >> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 15:53:02 -0800 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Impressive Beginnings >A close second is 'Chairs Missing', especially with >the staccato 'Another the Letter' mixed in with the >(relatively) longer songs. > Hi Rick, This is not meant as a personal attack, so don't get angry (^_^). However, I feel I must point this out: Ian was specifically asking about album starts. i.e. >Anybody any opinions on which Wire / Related album has the best opening? Chairs Missing doesn't start with Another The Letter. It starts with Practice Makes Perfect. Does this change the position of Chairs Missing in your list? From what I can tell, you think that IBTABA has the best opening track of any Wire project. Is that true? It sounded from the tone of your e-mail that you were thinking of the strongest first time you heard a Wire album - which might be a good follow-up quiz. (^_^) The way I understood Ian's question, you're not necessarily supposed to list your favorite Wire album or the first time you heard a Wire album, or the strongest first impression of a Wire album, but the Wire album that has the best intro. Comments, Ian? Cheers, Paul P.S. Looking over some of the other lists, I would have to say that A-Z has a pretty impressive start track too. Ray caught me off guard with Ahead - I'd forgotten all about that compilation, so it counts. Ahead makes a great start off track. I usually never listen to the start track on 154 in sequence - I usually skip to Two People in a Room. I Should Have Known Better is too "orchestral" for me, personally, as a starter - but your points, Mark, are very valid. The reason I like The Point of Collapse so much is the jump start - Bang - it's going. Then, the words come in: "They're checking the traps - for one of the chaps". Those lyrics contrast so sharply with the happy, smooth delivery and the bouncy melody. Still an amazing kickoff for me. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 21:49:33 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Impressive Beginnings Paul, << Chairs Missing doesn't start with Another The Letter. It starts with Practice Makes Perfect. >> This runs ISHKB on 154 a close second. It's only the fact that it's a B-side.... That's one reason why I'm not keen on Ahead as a first track. Or Silk Skin Paws for that matter. For me, one vital feature of great albums is that they shouldn't kick off with the "big hit single". There are exceptions of course, but you can't beat a great non-single album opener... Both A-Z and Not To have great openings...as do Domes 1 & 2.... >>I usually never listen to the start track on 154 in sequence - I usually skip to Two People in a Room. I Should Have Known Better is too "orchestral" for me, personally, as a starter -<< Ah, but the transition from ISHKB to TPIAR is one of Wire's finest between-tracks silences! >>The reason I like The Point of Collapse so much is the jump start - Bang - it's going. Then, the words come in: "They're checking the traps - for one of the chaps".<< Funny song that one - started off as something much less melodic called "A three legged Waltz" (the line survives in PoC) which was played at early gigs and was, I think, in 3/4 time.... got the usual in-studio rewrite treatment! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 19:43:12 -0800 (PST) From: Rick Hindman Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Impressive Beginnings > This is not meant as a personal attack, so don't get > angry (^_^). > However, I feel I must point this out: Ian was > specifically asking > about album starts. i.e. Thanks for the note, Paul, I didn't take it as an attack, but appreciate the thought, especially with emails. Based on that notion, I am a bit puzzled now. The CD of Ideal Copy I have opens with "Point of Collapse", while several people mentioned "Ahead" as a favorite opening track, so I guess I thought the subject was a bit broader than Ian originally intended. But that does bring a question of whether there is a version of IC that opens with 'Ahead'. That is one of my favorite tracks on that album so I may change things. IBTABA still rocks, though, I had it at ear bleeding volume the first time I heard it and that grinding bass still gives me goosebumps! Then that clear, shimmering piano on top.... good stuff that!! Sorry for the thread confusion. R Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #5 *****************************