From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #1 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, January 2 2001 Volume 04 : Number 001 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Ants/Hats/Dogs ["ian barrett" ] Re: [idealcopy] standing ovation [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Ants/Hats/Dogs [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] [idealcopy] Off-Topic: Frigg ["giluz" ] [idealcopy] 12 times you ["giluz" ] [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V3 #389 ["David Mack" ] Re: [idealcopy] Radio 2 Fun ["Stephen Jackson" ] Re: [idealcopy] Ants/Hats/Dogs ["Stephen Jackson" ] [idealcopy] CN/MZUI [Wireviews ] [idealcopy] Ma McClaren Invents African Drumming????? [=?iso-8859-1?q?Gra] Re: [idealcopy] Ma McClaren Invents African Drumming????? [PaulRabjohn@ao] Re: [idealcopy] Ants/Hats/Dogs/Wire on Peel ["ian barrett" Subject: [idealcopy] Ants/Hats/Dogs This talk of Adam and the Ants reminds me, my brother once thought there was a line in Young Parisians that said; "Young Parisians are so French/They like packing cement" Can't remember what the line actually was since I have no interest in early, mid or late Ant music. My own favouriteWire related lyrical misinterpretation was when I had Chairs Missing on tape copy only, from I Feel Mysterious Today "Minus hat before dawn" came to my waxy ears as "Man is happy for dog" And speaking of dogs, strolling for my Sunday Times through snow covered streets yesterday morning, I was the subject of an unprovoked attack by a dog, fortunately on a lead (leash) or the scraped and almost broken skin on my left forarm (through jacket and sweater) might have been more throat and facial. But since this is the Ideal Copy list, any takers for which breed of dog it was? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 07:34:21 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] standing ovation Its the Ovation Breadwinner... also used by John McGough of Banshees and Magazine, Danny Partridge, Big Bob Smith of Le Cure and Jim Messina of... well you know The Breadwinner and Deacon are essentially the same model, with the Deacon having higher end finishes... both have battery powered active pickups that will capture anything in the room and provide fantastic hot feedback and Andy Gill-esque noise squalls... make sure the one you are looking at has the original electronics and the original hard case as they are obviously unique... you should be able to get one in the 350-500 range Ajw ////thanks. what do you mean by "higher end finishes"? is a deacon the same basic shape? must admit i do fancy one. though breadwinner and deacon must be the 2 worst names for a guitar i've ever heard....p ps what do you think to these danelectric guitars wire are now using? i'd never seen them before ; anything special? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 07:38:13 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Ants/Hats/Dogs that ant lyric is "they like patti smith" , but it doesn't scan too well.......... p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 15:24:54 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: [idealcopy] Off-Topic: Frigg Is anyone familliar with a German band called Frigg? I bought a CD called Brecht, which is, essentially, a tribute to Brecht and to Weill/Eisler - not covers of old Brecht songs, but new songs in a Brechtian style. The result is a sort of combination between Henry Cow and John Zorn (and, of course, Weill/Eisler). CDnow has some other import albums of theirs, and I wanted to know if anyone heard of those albums. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 15:53:34 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: [idealcopy] 12 times you Finally managed to download the mp3's off the pinkflag site yesterday. It seems that the 3 turntables I tried the 7" on were completely fucked, 'cause the sound is wicked. This single gets better with every listen. The more you're familliar with it, it sounds even longer than its 1:30 minutes length, 'cause there's so much in it. Every loop could be the basis of a brilliant track. Putting them there all together, in a short time of 1:30 minutes, is overloading your brain to its limits. Solution: Play it looped, as long as possible; play it to your friends, relatives and anyone you know; play it in your head when you're at work; play it in your dreams. And when you've had enough of it, do the same thing with the B side and start over again. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 07:55:40 -0800 From: "David Mack" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V3 #389 ! Happy New Millennium ! Went out looking for the Four Horsmen last night - but - yet another Millennium let-down. bryan inquired: > I hope the original MZUI album will be released. Only in our dreams - WMO pursued this but the license-holder (Rough Trade?) wanted #10k or something likewise absurd. quoth chas/wmo "put a microphone in a room with wood floors and walk around for a while" the object itself (vinyl edition) is something special - but that does not always translate to a worthy cd release anyways as with the instant sheds - the format is an integral part of the piece (i multi-tracked IS1&2 and burned them to cd, but IMO they are not supposed to sound exactly the same twice > And is the upcoming Colin Newman album going to have anything to do with the Vox > Pop album WMO was considering putting out? nope > What exactly are the Steve Albini sessions? New Wire material? a portion of the then-current live set 'be sure to loop' d ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 09:06:55 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] (off topic) John Peel In a message dated 31/12/00 14:50:28 GMT Standard Time, giluz@nettalk.com writes: << There isn't a single of instance of Wire on Peel's all time festive fifty as well - I found it an extremely strange list: Most of the tracks are from the 80's, there's too much Joy Division (but not too much Fall - I'm in complete agreement with Mr. Peel on this point), too much PJ Harvey (with all due respect, she's nice enough but not that nice), one too much Smells Like Fucking Teen Spirit at no. 8 and a surprising and worrying appearance of Pulp's Common People. What is this crap? I thought Peel was Mr. alternative, the only broadcaster who's tastes trully change according to the newest and most extreme marginal music, whose only constant behaviour, as far as musical tastes come and go, is The Fall. giluz >> /////// despite 5 sessions , did peel ever really play much wire? i struggle to recall much in the late 70's and virtually nothing in the 80's. i used to listen to peel a fair bit then and if he did play much then i missed it. thought that 2000 festive 50 was a bit conservative actually.p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 16:44:39 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: [idealcopy] Off Topic: Four Horsemen > ! Happy New Millennium ! > Went out looking for the Four Horsmen last night - but - yet another > Millennium let-down. And where have you been in the last few hundred years - they've been with us at least since the middle ages. Very few people actually spotted them during the 20th century, but that was just because they had so much work to do they couldn't be bothered to pose for the benefit of apocalypse enthusiasts. Happy new year. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 12:01:15 -0000 From: "Stephen Jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Radio 2 Fun > "Pisses" is a bit of a naughty word too, and that's on "Chairs > Missing"...... > >//// which song is that? "Too Late" Steve. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ They use the head and not the fist. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 14:47:40 -0000 From: "Stephen Jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Ants/Hats/Dogs > But since this is the Ideal Copy list, any takers for which breed >of dog it was? A German Shepherd, presumably ;o) Steve. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ They use the head and not the fist. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 09:19:49 -0800 (PST) From: Wireviews Subject: [idealcopy] CN/MZUI >Got 'em - of course I hope the original >MZUI album will be released. Not very likely, although you never know, I guess. >And is the upcoming Colin Newman album going to >have anything to do with the Vox >Pop album WMO was considering putting out? As I understand it, Vox Pop was originally supposed to be made up of old CN stuff (demos and such-like), and then was to be new versions of said old stuff as redone by Colin. Although Colin hasn't really said what the new album will contain, I very much doubt it will be retrospective. My guess is that it will follow the lines of his recent stuff, ie: maxed-out electronic/'rock' hyrbid, along the lines of a harder Bastard (see the stuff on Swim Team One, for example)... >What exactly are the Steve Albini sessions? >New Wire material? The Albini sessions are Wire's Y2K USA set as recorded at Albini's studio. Whether these are ever going to be released is unknown. Craig. ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. Snub.Comms: http://welcome.to/snub Veer Audio: http://listen.to/veer - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 18:11:26 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Ma McClaren Invents African Drumming????? Stephen Jackson said >>>>McClaren was supposed to have thought up that Burundi stuff? No, the drummers of Burundi practised it for years before McClaren even donned bondage Tartan. :-) And they get no credit! Ho ho... MM just reappropriated the music of another culture to make a quick buck, the age old story of the supposedly revolutionary character revealing his true colours as an imperialist clown. Or not, as the case may be. Echo & the Bunnymen invited the drummers themselves to play on 'All My Colours' aka 'Zimbo' which pisses all over that Wow Wow Ant crap kiddy pops. And the drumming on PIL's 'Flowers of Romance' shows the lot of them up as the chancer twerps they all were. Now there's a record that has stood the test of time, especially the instrumental version on the 12". Was this the most demonic record to ever hit the UK Top 40? Lydon's intense stare looming out of a TV made a big impression on my 11 yr old psyche. And that beat... What a shame they turned into a loathesome self-parody as soon as Keith Levene & Jeanette Lee got pushed overboard. Or was it because Lydon gave up taking the piss out of ma mcclaren? Bringing it back on topic - the waking man Robert has been said to indulge in a spot of African style drumming on the side. >>>>Btw, has anyone heard Mansun's cover of "Shot By Both Sides". Faithful to the original right down to the trademark McGeoch solo. Actually they played it on one of Peel's Xmas shows & I thought it was so unfaithful to the true spirit of the original as to laughable. Technically they actually got the solo you mention wrong. The singer had no character or vim or venom. It was limp Britpap wack, mate. They should all be shot by every side that has ever been! If they ever cover Wire, I will buy a gun. However, an Irish band whose name I forget (paradise something perhaps) also covered it & did an even worse job, if that could be possible. The record was only a 10p bargain bin job and I chopped it into pieces and glued it back together with shards of a 30p Genesis album which massively improved it, especially @ 78rpm thru a distortion pedal. J. Mascis' covers of Teeny fanclub, Pavement & the Ruts on the same peel prog were hilarious! Gary Numan also appeared, covering himself. Excepting 'Public Image' how come no one ever covers early PIL tracks? Keith Levene's guitar style must be one of the hardest to rip off (just listen to that boring sod from U2, or better still, don't). And doesn't 'New Years Day' (U2) actually sound like a sullied 'Song From Under the Floorboards' (Magazine)? Lock up the Ants! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine webzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 13:51:46 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Ma McClaren Invents African Drumming????? << Excepting 'Public Image' how come no one ever covers early PIL tracks? Keith Levene's guitar style must be one of the hardest to rip off (just listen to that boring sod from U2, or better still, don't). >> ///// i have a bootleg tape of an early pil gig where levine does "problems" and "belsen" in a pil stylee. very good indeed. the times did "religion" on their "pure" album , sampling lydons vocals in their entirety. not very good at all. p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 19:13:13 -0000 From: "ian barrett" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Ants/Hats/Dogs/Wire on Peel From: Stephen Jackson To: ian barrett ; > > But since this is the Ideal Copy list, any takers for which breed > >of dog it was? > > A German Shepherd, presumably ;o) > Steve. Correct. A big bastard as well. Any other listers with amusing stories with a tenuous Wire link about being attacked or injured? Re Paul R on Wire's absence on Peel in the 70s and 80s; I used to listen a fair bit in the late 70s and early 80s and never caught them much, although I did hear Red Tent I and Red Tent II for the first time on that programme. Ian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 14:36:13 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Ma McClaren Invents African Drumming????? On Mon, 1 Jan 2001, [iso-8859-1] Graeme Rowland wrote: > Stephen Jackson said > >>>>McClaren was supposed to have thought up that > Burundi stuff? > > No, the drummers of Burundi practised it for years > before McClaren even donned bondage Tartan. :-) And > they get no credit! Ho ho... > > Echo & the Bunnymen invited the drummers themselves to > play on 'All My Colours' aka 'Zimbo' which pisses all > over that Wow Wow Ant crap kiddy pops. And the drummers themselves also play on, I think, two tracks on Joni MItchell's _THe Hissing of Summer Lawns_. - --Jeff, thinking this may be the first time Ms. Mitchell's been mentioned in this forum... J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/reviews.html ::"In two thousand years, they'll still be looking for Elvis - :: this is nothing new," said the priest. now downloading "Twelve Times You" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 20:05:05 EST From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Ma McClaren Invents African Drumming????? In a message dated 1/1/1 4:46:51 PM, jenor@csd.uwm.edu writes: > >> Stephen Jackson said >> >>>>McClaren was supposed to have thought up that >> Burundi stuff? >> >> No, the drummers of Burundi practised it for years >> before McClaren even donned bondage Tartan. :-) And >> they get no credit! Ho ho... >> >> Echo & the Bunnymen invited the drummers themselves to >> play on 'All My Colours' aka 'Zimbo' which pisses all >> over that Wow Wow Ant crap kiddy pops. speaking of appropriated "ethnic" music, does anyone remember the episode of nothern exposure (80's american t.v. show) with adam ant as guest star? he plays a character similar to himself (or maybe a cross between mclaren & paul simon) who travels to cicely alaska (the town in which the show takes place) and assembles a group of native drummers for his new guitar rock material. i don't recall the ending of the episode, but i think he may have learned the "don't exploit the natives" lesson. not sure. anyone have better recollection? - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 22:02:49 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V3 #389 David, << Only in our dreams - WMO pursued this but the license-holder (Rough Trade?) wanted #10k or something likewise absurd.<< It was more like #500 for the artwork! >>quoth chas/wmo "put a microphone in a room with wood floors and walk around for a while" >> Ah, but it's me you're hearing on Mzui :-) Mark (yes, I was there!) ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #1 *****************************