From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #370 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, December 12 2000 Volume 03 : Number 370 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] 12XU ["Wilson, Paul" ] RE: [idealcopy] No Gramophones Aloud - 12 times you distortion ["giluz" <] Re: [idealcopy] A stupid (indirect) inquiry ["Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: [idealcopy] 12XU Hi all, Giluz asked about whether the 7" single suffers from distortion - the answer is - most definitely! I got my copy on Friday and have played it a couple of times (the first time, just to listen, the second - to record it onto CD - I put ALL my 7" singles onto CD, for convenience). But, the distortion is due to the recording - not the vinyl, which is of excellent quality (take my word for it - my turntable is a top notch job. I do sympathise with all you non-turntable folk - but 12XU is a 7" vinyl track. I'm glad it came out that way. Anyway, isn't there a couple of downloads of the songs available on the Pink Flag site? Just a general comment - a turntable really is a must. Invest in one - there are some pretty reasonable ones around for about #150 (not a lot, considering the lifespan of turntables) - about the cost of 10 CD's here in the UK. Paul (rezmole) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 12:16:51 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] No Gramophones Aloud - 12 times you distortion > That's a bummer, Giluz! Do you have any way of getting new > needles for your > turntables? I have an old Pioneer turntable, and I think I spent > $40 for a > new generic needle at a chain electronics store and it works > pretty well. I > don't have the new 7", so I can't say what's up with the possible > distortion... What kind of turntables do you have?? > Actually I do have a place for needles, but something always tends to go wrong every time I get there. I bring the turntable(s) with me and everything seems right at the shop but when I get home something always happens. I've got an Akai and Sherwood turntables - both quite crap and old (almost 20 years old I guess). The Sherwood turntable's needle seems to be alright, but something's gone wrong with the wiring - I can only hear one track (I don't even know if it's left or right) in mono. I dunno, I guess perhaps it's time for me to invest in a good turntable, even if it'll only serve me to backup my old vinyls to CDR's. Different note: Any mac user here bought the new Bitheadz sampling tool called Phrazer? Well, if you're considering it you might as well forget about it - it's crap, and would probably take them at least 2 versions for it to get even close to the capabilities of Sonic Foundry's Acid for PC (now- that's a great music programme). If anyone did buy it (or get it from any other source), though, please e-mail me. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 10:43:27 -0500 From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] A stupid (indirect) inquiry >>Is there a Wire or Wire-related song played in the chords of C, B >>and G (or any subset of these)? >Apparently somebody is starting to learn guitar! No, and have no intentions to do so whatsoever. I was just interested is there a song in the key of C(olin), B(ruce) or G(raham) :) Syarzhuk Be healthy, stay wealthy... Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://www.belmusic.net _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 10:02:59 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [idealcopy] A stupid (indirect) inquiry On Mon, 11 Dec 2000, Syarzhuk Kazachenka wrote: > >>Is there a Wire or Wire-related song played in the chords of C, B > >>and G (or any subset of these)? > > >Apparently somebody is starting to learn guitar! > > No, and have no intentions to do so whatsoever. I was just interested is > there a song in the key of C(olin), B(ruce) or G(raham) :) Not so "stupid" as it sounds: I don't have my copy of the Kevin Eden book handy, but weren't the chords of one song derived from the names of train stations along a particular route? And music is full of compositions embedding the name B-A-C-H ("H" is B-flat in German notation). I thought "French Film (Blurred)" might be based on those three chords, plus F# - but when I got home and listened to it, it was in a different key. Also, I was wrong about "G" - if transposed, the sequence would have been F#, C, G#, C, B. (I'm talking about the verse - clearest near the end with the repeated "a second language.") - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/reviews.html ::No man is an island. ::But if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie 'em together, ::they make a pretty good raft. __Max Cannon__ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 16:17:48 +0000 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: [idealcopy] OFFTOPIC-Shinkansen Just wondered if anyone was going to the Shinkansen (formerly Sarah Records) Christmas Party tonight at The Spitz. 3 great bands for #7.50!!!!!!! Chris. The Information in this communication is confidential and may be privileged and should be treated by the recipient accordingly. If you are not the intended recipient please notify me immediately. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose its contents to any other person. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 12:10:03 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew N Westmeyer Subject: Re: [idealcopy] A stupid (indirect) inquiry Excerpts from mail: 11-Dec-100 > > >>Is there a Wire or Wire-related song played in the chords of C, B > > >>and G (or any subset of these)? > > > > >Apparently somebody is starting to learn guitar! > > > > No, and have no intentions to do so whatsoever. I was just interested is > > there a song in the key of C(olin), B(ruce) or G(raham) :) I think "The First Letter" (from Vien) has only ONE chord (probably an open E chord, to keep that loose 6th string vibrating). So you could always transpose that song to another key. Play it in C for Colin's version, and so on. > Not so "stupid" as it sounds: I don't have my copy of the Kevin Eden > book handy, but weren't the chords of one song derived from the > names of train stations along a particular route? That's "106 Beats That". > And music is full of compositions > embedding the name B-A-C-H ("H" is B-flat in German notation). I think that was Bach's "Art of Fugue". H is B-flat, but one of the other letters is also different as well (I forget which). > I thought "French Film (Blurred)" might be based on those three chords, > plus F# - but when I got home and listened to it, it was in a different > key. Also, I was wrong about "G" - if transposed, the sequence would have > been F#, C, G#, C, B. (I'm talking about the verse - clearest near the end > with the repeated "a second language.") That one is tabbed on the web page. The guitar outro is probably incorrect, but the rest of the song is good. I also watched Colin play it on the Rockpalast show to be sure it was correct! (A)ndrew Westmeyer qwerty@cmu.edu www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~qwerty "I've been known to dabble." -007 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 10:10:30 -0800 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: [idealcopy] [OFF TOPIC] CD vs vinyl (was: No Gramophones Aloud - 12 times you distortion) > I know that theoretically vinyl would always be superior to CD, Um, that's not true. Vinyl has some advantages, but so does CD. From a physics/mathmatics standpoint here's a comparison. I'm not getting into the audiophile digital vs. analog debate. That's been contested so endlessly that it seems like the U.S. presidential elections. (^_^). This is strictly from a measurable, quantitative point of view. (So, no flames please - only constructive criticism.) This is not meant to be a comprehensive list, but a quick overview: Vinyl: Pros: Continuously variable voltage (analog - no digitization) of audio waveforms. No decay due to oxidation. Can have frequency response up to 40 kHz - although this requires special vinyl and stylus to achieve (the old CD-4 quadraphonic system did this, for example.) Cons: Styluses wear grooves at contact point. Dust and dirt a problem. Frequency response drops and distortion rises as the stylus reaches the inside of the record (constant angular veolicty of record at 33 or 45 means the actual linear veolcity gets slower and slower). Groove deformation of vinyl as stylus plays - the bow "shockwave" effect. Medium signal to noise ratio due to vinyl impurities. Warps and eccentricity in vinyl causes audible speed errors in playback. Incorrectly calibrated tone arm can cause errors in playback (i.e. tracking pressure, alignment). Poor channel separation. Average impulse response. CD: Pros: Ruler flat frequency response from 20 Hz - 20 kHz. High signal to noise ratio at normal audio levels (see cons). Pure impulse response, if correct filtering is used (no additional harmonics) (see cons). Excellent channel separation. No degradation to sound quality either due to location of track on disc, or repeated playback of disc. Convenient packaging. Cons: Distortion rises as signal level falls. (At 1 bit resolution, which is the lowest signal, CD achieves 100% THD or a square wave for an incoming sine wave.) 44 kHz sampling rate too low for human perception - we can "hear the snapshots", if you will. Same with 16 bit digital words - not enough resolution for human perception. Far less user adjustments possible - - you're at the mercy of the system designers with regards to such things as filtering design and D/A converter linearity. Discs can oxidize. Waveforms not continuously variable unlike the incoming signal - made up of "snapshots" which have to stitched back together (although higher sampling rates can help mask this). Personally, I have records and CDs. I like them both. Most of my CDs sound great. Sometimes, I find that vinyl can make for a pleasant listening experience, whereas the same title on CD can sound clinical and cold. Sometimes the vinyl will sound muted in comparison to the CD. Depends on the mastering engineer and the recording artist themselves, really. For instance, R.E.M., until just recently, only checked the vinyl editions of their albums. They didn't bother listening to the CDs at all. Listen to "Green" or "Automatic for the People" on vinyl if you get a chance - amazing. Also, Pearl Jam used to sequence their albums for vinyl - - "Spin the Black Circle" indeed. (^_^) Shellac even included a "throw-away" copy of the CD in their latest album just to prove the point. The best sounding format I have heard yet is the new PCM-based (not Dolby Digital AC-3 based) DVD audio. I have a couple of Audio DVDs that are 96 kHz/24 bit PCM audio. These will blow your socks off - assuming you're wearing socks, of course. (^_^). They have the warmth of records, with the accuracy of CD. The only drawback is that I have to be home to play them. (And, they were $35 U.S.). Unfortunately, if the original album mastering was done digitally at CD sample rates, this new standard won't add anything. You have to have done the original mastering analog or at higher bit rates/bit depth, but that's another topic. (^_^) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 14:29:30 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] A stupid (indirect) inquiry Not so "stupid" as it sounds: I don't have my copy of the Kevin Eden book handy, but weren't the chords of one song derived from the names of train stations along a particular route? And music is full of compositions embedding the name B-A-C-H ("H" is B-flat in German notation). ////// and the other one in this ilk is former airline , where the riff is B-E-A. i thought that was pretty funny actually.p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 14:36:48 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] An Evening of Fun in the Metropolis of your Dream In a message dated 10/12/00 20:01:34 GMT Standard Time, smj@zen.co.uk writes: << Subj: Re: [idealcopy] An Evening of Fun in the Metropolis of your Dream Date: 10/12/00 20:01:34 GMT Standard Time From: smj@zen.co.uk (Stephen Jackson) Sender: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org To: crackedmachine@yahoo.co.uk (Graeme Rowland), idealcopy@smoe.org >There were two new songs. The set opened with a drone >instrumental which was perhaps closer to Ocsid >territory than anything Wire have done before. Only just realised that Ocsid is 'Disco' backwards....Doh! ////////// just to say these records have got that new ocsid cd in stock , i bought one today. tel 020 7587 5349 for their mail order dept. they have stacks of bruce/graham stuff plus all the this heat reissues. p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 14:43:09 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Fwd: PJ Harvey: Live Show Webcast virtuecast.com - 11th December thought this might be of some interest................. Return-Path: Received: from rly-za02.mx.aol.com (rly-za02.mail.aol.com [172.31.36.98]) by air-za03.mail.aol.com (v77.14) with ESMTP; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 11:20:55 -0500 Received: from smtp.udac.se (smtp-back.udac.net [193.44.79.123]) by rly-za02.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 11:20:31 -0500 Received: from uucp1.udac.net (uucp-b.udac.net [192.36.179.10]) by smtp.udac.se (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA16150 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 17:23:44 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Received: (from uucp@localhost) by uucp1.udac.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with UUCP id RAA29760 for PaulRabjohn@aol.com; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 17:18:31 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 17:09:14 +0100 To: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: PJ Harvey: Live Show Webcast virtuecast.com - 11th December MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: TFS Secure Messaging /222000000/222020954/222002769/222100545/ X-Mailer: Version 4.02 Build 145 PJ Harvey: Live Show Webcast virtuecast.com Fans worldwide will be able to experience the first date of PJ Harvey's North American tour with an exclusive webcast on virtuecast.com on Monday, December 11th. The gig, which took place in Toronto Phoenix Concert Theater last Friday (Dec 1st) was described by allstar.com as 'a showcase of Harvey's raw power and elusive magnetism.' The show featured songs from the current, critically acclaimed album, 'Stories From The City, Stories From The Sea', including 'Good Fortune', 'The Whores Hustle and The Hustlers Whore' and 'Kamikaze', as well as tracks from past albums such as favourites 'Dry', 'Mansize' and 'Down By The Water'. The webcast will be available on December 11th for one day only on virtuecast.com, from 9am EST. It can also be accessed on the affiliated sites virtuetv.com and virtueoz.com. PJ Harvey is currently touring selected club venues in North America before undertaking her first ever tour of Australia and New Zealand in the New Year. Forward item: - ---------------------------------- Forwarded - ---------------------------------- From: PC:pjlist@pjharvey.net at INTERNET Date: 00/12/11 16:59 -0800 To: Paul Rabjohn at SSAB_DROITWICH_GB Subject: PJ Harvey: Live Show Webcast virtuecast.com - 11th December - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 19:54:36 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] A stupid (indirect) inquiry Jeff, You're thinking of 'Former Airline' perhaps, whose chords are B-E-A - the initials of British European Airways, which ceased to be on the creation of British Airways a few years before the song was written, hence becoming a "former" airline. I'll get me anorak. Mark << Not so "stupid" as it sounds: I don't have my copy of the Kevin Eden book handy, but weren't the chords of one song derived from the names of train stations along a particular route? And music is full of compositions embedding the name B-A-C-H ("H" is B-flat in German notation). >> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 20:29:37 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] An Evening of Fun in the Metropolis of your Dream Well, what can I add that Paul, Graeme and Uri haven't already said?? A truly ferocious performance, as good as they've been this year, and delivered in a venue curiously reminiscent of Oxford's Museum of Modern Art. It was great to see new material - only the truly talismanic old songs now remain in the set - Another the Letter, Advantage in Height, Drill and Pink Flag in particular being delivered with venom. Gone is Mercy, also Silk Skin Paws from the Garage set. The new material will hopefully swell the set list next year - the droning, e-bowed intro classes as a song, according to the setlist, while the other all-new song would not have been out of place on Pink Flag. Gig highlight for me was the revived Ally in Exile - now a mutant hybrid of the D&E song and its close relation, Art of Persistence. More streamlined than the original, and Bruce is mighty throughout. He Knows is now honed to perfection - imagine it closing side 1 of the vinyl edition of next year's new Wire album! I managed to snaffle lyric sheets for AiE and HK from the stage - will scan and post later this week. Also it was a pleasure to meet Paul and Mr Suit, while a special award goes to Graeme, whose made the trip so there's be four listers at the gig - one for each member of Wire! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 21:01:45 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [idealcopy] An Evening of Fun in the Metropolis of your Dream On Mon, 11 Dec 2000 MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > It was great to see new material - only the truly talismanic old songs now > remain in the set - Another the Letter, Advantage in Height, Drill and Pink > Flag in particular being delivered with venom. Gone is Mercy, also Silk Skin > Paws from the Garage set. Hmmm...I never would have thought of "Advantage in Height" as "talismanic": not a bad song, but hardly central to my impression of Wire, even Wire Mk. II. I think "Ambitious" might be a good contender to represent the early part of Mk. II (obviously "Drill" must be there...) - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/reviews.html ::I suspect that the first dictator of this country will be called "Coach":: __William Gass__ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 23:05:11 EST From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OFF TOPIC] CD vs vinyl (was: No Gramophones Aloud - 12 times you distortion) In a message dated 12/11/0 2:23:11 PM, paulp@wrq.com writes: >Sometimes, I find that vinyl can make for a pleasant > >listening experience, whereas the same title on CD can sound clinical and > >cold. my first experience with this goes back to blue bell knoll by cocteau twins. the cd really curls my nerve endings. luckily, the effect doesn't last through the whole cd, i guess the opening track kinda desensitizes the ears. :o) - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #370 *******************************