From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #364 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, December 6 2000 Volume 03 : Number 364 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] collaboration(s) [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] collaboration(s) [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] [idealcopy] X after U which comes after 2 [=?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowlan] [idealcopy] [Ideal Copy] Twelve Times You ["Ciscon, Ray" > As I see it there are 3 distinct possibilities for collaboration. >> 1. Paul's original suggestion of an "Exquisite Corpse" with little preconcieved notion of composition or the others' contribution save a p-re-determined length. 2. An as-yet undefined basis, most clearly delineated by what it is *not*, specifically not a cover tune and not Paul's suggestion.<< You must have missed some of the emails, as both Giluz and I have attempted to define and clarify a means of working which provides for maximum flexibility, allows list members to contribute as much or as little as they want, and should provide an ever-changing body of work which is open to multiple interpretations. I've included some of the highlights at the end of this message which should hopefully clarify some of the ideas that have been knocked around. Within this framework, there is nothing to say that Paul's "exquisite corpse" concept could not be done - ie defining a set length piece which is assembled sight-unseen. The only "criticism" that has been applied to such an idea is that it is, for me, too anarchic an approach, and as such would not be a concept to get my creative juices flowing. My suggestions have been designed to widen the brief of Paul's original suggestion to get more people involved. I just don't believe that we should simply be striving to procuce just one "song" or whatever under a framework where all we have to work on is a pre-determined length. I'd rather see something as more of an installation - a changing piece of art, not just a "virtual band". >> 3. A wire Cover project with contributions or collaborations from the list.<< I'm not aware this was ever suggested. I certianly have zero interest in such an idea. >>Paul and I plan to pursue #1 so long as there is sufficient interest. I think the goals and means are fairly well defined. The somewhat maligned and undoubtably unfortunately named idealcopiests list will serve as a forum for that project. I have unsubscribed all but Paul and myself from that list. If you are interested, please up or re-up by emailing idealCopyists-subscribe@egroups.com. >> Personally, I'd rather it was kept here on idealcopy, with an OT flag. Mark Highlights of previous communications... I'd personally like to see is a situation where whatever anyone has to offer can be uploaded to a web site somewhere for download in a universal format (WAV or MP3), for others to use as they see fit. Someone was offering drum tracks for example, which would be a good starting point. Someone else may have a small sample, or a loop of noise. Somoeone might want to combine two elements and upload that back. Or someone may want to add guitar and bass tracks to the drums. So what if we get 40 versions of the same song ;-) I think that's the beauty of the concept. A mutating, changing project rather than an attempt to create "a song". In my experience of being in bands, the more stuff you throw at the wall the better the results, especially when we're dealing with a large group of people with a wide difference in tastes. As an extreme example, if someone decided that whatever we do was based on a rhythm track that I didn't like, I would not contribute. In a band situation, the song would inevitably be junked. So allow for flexibility, please. Also, there may be some on the list who aren't musicians but could contribute lyrics (sorry...texts, to use Lewisspeak!). I'd happily be the Newman to someone's Lewis! As an extreme example, say Graeme Rowland produced a 30-minute ring-modulator-mulched mantra. I might take a 4-bar loop and turn it into a 2-minute pop song, adding a guitar part. You might remix the pop song into a dance track. And someone else might take a 10 second sample of the dance track and mulch it into a 30-minute ambient track. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 09:40:31 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [idealcopy] collaboration(s) On Tue, 5 Dec 2000 MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > You must have missed some of the emails, as both Giluz and I have attempted > to define and clarify a means of working which provides for maximum > flexibility, allows list members to contribute as much or as little as they > want, and should provide an ever-changing body of work which is open to > multiple interpretations. I've included some of the highlights at the end of > this message which should hopefully clarify some of the ideas that have been > knocked around. Although I'm unlikely to participate because I lack equipment (a tragic war injury), it seems to me that yes, this should be as open-ended as possible. Once things start going, each different approach might be labeled: the 3:30 anti-pop song, the exquisite corpse approach, the completely open-ended "jam," the cannibalized Wire-noise thing, and any other idea people come up with. It would seem, too, that any component someone designates for one approach can be grabbed, fucked with, and tweaked for any other. As I understand it, this would be ongoing: at any given moment, someone could download the open-ended jam, add bits to it (or subtract them), etc. Some time later, it would be completely different. The other approaches would be a little more structured - but not much. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/reviews.html ::Any noise that is unrelenting eventually becomes music:: __Paula Carino__ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 18:00:19 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] collaboration(s) Did anyone bother to download the drum track I uploaded to my myspace.com site yesterday? It's a clean drum track with no effects, so it could be the basis for a few loops, that could get us started on something. As I mentioned in my e-mail yesterday, I can also e-mail it to anyone who's interested (it's a 725 kb mp3 file). giluz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 20:17:18 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] X after U which comes after 2 Got the '12XU' single today in Pelicanneck, Manchester for #3.99. This is essential for all on the list, needless to say. Those confused about which side is which should reflect the run out groove inscription in the light - the side that says 'X' is the kick ass rockin' tune & the side that says 'U' is Colin's hilarious condensed techno mix, latterly squelching through requisite farty noises. The only band in 2000 that rocked faster & harder & artier on vinyl were Melt Banana, I reckon. Wire have done it again! Another slab of genius! Now I've half a mind to hitch up to Edinburgh & then hitch back straight afterwards (even after reading Michel Faber's 'Under The Skin' but I'll be safe as I'm too skinny for vodeselisation!). Does anyone know if tickets are likely to be available on the door? Lock up your hats! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine webzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 14:29:48 -0600 From: "Ciscon, Ray" Subject: [idealcopy] [Ideal Copy] Twelve Times You I do hope that a CD release of this is planned... Some of us are turntable challenged. I'd even pay to download the MP3's of it! Does anyone know if www.pinkflag.com has any plans to sell MP3 downloads or anything like that? I need it bad!!! Cheers Ray Ciscon Remote Office LAN/WAN Support Manager Comark, Inc. In order to provide the best level of support, please contact: The I.S. Support Center at extension 4357 ** Every support call should begin with a call to the I. S. Support Center. ** Carthago delenda est. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 20:46:41 -0700 From: Don Poe Subject: [idealcopy] He Said Take Care & Intro I have been thinking about this for a while. EG Lewis has said that he wasn't happy w/ the He Said "Take Care" album because it was over-produced. This was my first side project I ever bought, and it has remained my favorite. My girlfriend liked it so much I got her a copy for herself, so I would bet she agrees. Is there any more concrete info out there about why Lewis doesn't view this record favorably? Also, looking back on it, I never intro'ed myself because I wanted to get a feel for the list before barging in. I was scolded for never posting a while ago(except for 2 sales things), so here is a little about myself. A friend let me listen to A Bell is a Cup back in 89 or so, and I have been hooked since. My favorite album is an Ideal Copy. I like the old stuff quite a but, but some days it doesn't click with me. My least fav of regular Wire stuff would be Manscape. I do try to get all the wire & side project stuff I can get my hands on, though. I live in Colorado, USA. I have been in a couple of bands(one of which just had a new CD released). But, right now I am going solo because my bandmates have all moved to different states. Other stuff I am into: Legendary Pink Dots Plastikman-like techno Jimmy Plotkin & Mick Harris Stuff(Scorn) GODFLESH, COIL, Swans, Merzbow, Whitehouse, Taint, Zoviet France, Nocturnal Emissions, and a whole slew of other stuff. And finally I work as a video editor/computer graphics guy at a video production house. ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #364 *******************************