From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #351 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, November 23 2000 Volume 03 : Number 351 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: RE: [idealcopy] Off Topic - list member musicians unite ["giluz" ] [idealcopy] 12 Times You ["giluz" ] [idealcopy] OT re Worry [alan gray ] Re: [idealcopy] FW: Reply now to join the idealCopyists group [PaulRabjo] Re: [idealcopy] FW: Reply now to join the idealCopyists group [MarkBursa] Re: [idealcopy] Off Topic - list member musicians unite ["they.wait" Subject: RE: RE: [idealcopy] Off Topic - list member musicians unite >I also think > that, just for > the hell of it, only wire-related samples/loops could be used. > Just wanted to clarify this bit: I meant that you could put in anything original of your own, but if you'd want to use samples or loops from different sources, only wire-related stuff should be used. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 07:20:01 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] On/Off Topic? Giluz, I din't realise there was another list! Do we really need one?? It seemed to work fine before, and there was only one guy moaning about OT posts? Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 14:29:03 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: [idealcopy] FW: Reply now to join the idealCopyists group I've got this on the mail this morning. I thought all you guys recieved it as well. What the hell's going on? giluz - -----Original Message----- From: idealCopyists moderator [mailto:idealCopyists-owner@egroups.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 10:39 PM To: giluz@nettalk.com Subject: Reply now to join the idealCopyists group Hello, Reply to this email to join the idealCopyists group, an email group hosted by eGroups, a free, easy-to-use email group service. JOIN NOW, IT'S EASY: reply to this email by choosing "Reply" and then "Send" in your email program. By joining idealCopyists, you will be able to exchange messages with other group members. eGroups also makes it easy to store photos and files, coordinate events and more. Here's an introductory message from the group moderator: - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I took the liberty of starting another list which y'all can opt-in at your option. It seems to me that otherwise we could just flood the list with too much OT, and hopefully this will be an on-going affair. Apologies to anyone who doesn't approve of this iniative. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ TO JOIN THIS GROUP: 1) REPLY to this email by clicking "Reply" and then "Send" in your email program - -OR- 2) Go to the eGroups site at http://www.egroups.com/invite/idealCopyists?email=giluz%40nettalk%2Ecom&iref =YWWyJRn5E6v2V5Q8eZ5qcfXMhpE and click the "JOIN" button If you do not wish to join the idealCopyists group, please ignore this invitation. SPECIAL NOTE FROM eGroups: Because eGroups values your privacy, it is a violation of our service rules for moderators to abuse our invitation service. If you feel this has happened, please notify us at egroups-abuse@yahoo-inc.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 15:33:03 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: [idealcopy] idealCopyists moderator Would the idealCopyists moderator please come to the information desk... Identify yourself!!! giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 15:45:56 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: [idealcopy] 12 Times You 12 Times You is now available at the pinkflag site for 3 quid (shit - and I couldn't wait and bought mine at Sister Ray for 3.99) - go and get it! giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 09:47:08 -0500 (EST) From: alan gray Subject: [idealcopy] OT re Worry >>what i got offerred was a record called hoxanne by some act >>called the police. i did some research and apparently this is >>nothing to do with graham but rather it is a superranuated new >>wave act where the geordie singer uses a bizarre cod-jamaican >>accent for resons lost in the mists of time. i think this guy >>might be someone to avoid.p I've been off the air for a while,just started catching up and came across this reference to the Police and so this geordie singer might therefore be "The Derivative Sting". If so I also think that he's someone to avoid. This Hoxanne track might not be anything to do with Graham but He's probably rearranged some wire lyrics and passed them off as his own at some point. Alan - ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 11:54:24 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] FW: Reply now to join the idealCopyists group << I've got this on the mail this morning. I thought all you guys recieved it as well. What the hell's going on? giluz ////// i have no idea at all. is this an "off topic" list or an "on topic" list? i don't seem to have been invited. i guess i have been naughty and gone off on too many tangents. boo hoo.p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 12:42:28 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] FW: Reply now to join the idealCopyists group me neither....my guess is that we've gone off on too many tangents! Mark << ////// i have no idea at all. is this an "off topic" list or an "on topic" list? i don't seem to have been invited. i guess i have been naughty and gone off on too many tangents. boo hoo.p >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 19:53:35 +0000 From: "they.wait" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Off Topic - list member musicians unite on 22/11/00 9:33 am, giluz at giluz@nettalk.com wrote: > no > way am I gonna work with analogue compact cassettes. I second this emotion! Personnaly I think anything but email will slow the project to a snails pace. Here's a suggestion - why don't we all pitch in a sample say no bigger than 500k we then download them manipulate and repost. we can then discuss a strategy for arranging and "recording". but let's get a move on! so we can get a demo to Swim! - -- They wait... ps I think we should avoid any Wire loops ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 15:19:05 -0500 From: "Katherine Pouliot" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] -- off topic - idealCopyists group Yeah, I didn't know there were still people with their undies in a twist about the whole topic issue. wow kath > ////// i have no idea at all. is this an "off topic" list or an "on topic" > list? i don't seem to have been invited. i guess i have been naughty and gone > off on too many tangents. boo hoo.p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 15:33:29 -0500 From: "Katherine Pouliot" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Off Topic - list member musicians unite so, anyone can e-mail a sound snippet in ? > Here's a suggestion - why don't we all pitch in a sample say no bigger than > 500k we then download them manipulate and repost. we can then discuss a > strategy for arranging and "recording". > > but let's get a move on! so we can get a demo to Swim! > > > -- > They wait... > ps I think we should avoid any Wire loops ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 16:36:38 CST6CDT From: mflaher3@triton.cc.il.us Subject: [idealcopy] OT: Commercials and Music For me, it's simple: 1. Any performer has a right to sell his/her music to be used in commercials. 2. Any performer who does so will fall somewhat in my opinion of him/her as an artist (if that is what the person is trying to be). Maybe this isn't fair. Oh, well, they'll get over it. 3. I don't really have to worry about this, because no music I really like a lot is going to be wanted by a major company any way. ;) Michael Flaherty - ------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Triton College's Web E-Mail. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 17:10:05 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [idealcopy] On/Off Topic? On Wed, 22 Nov 2000, giluz wrote: > Did anyone actually understand which list is the on-topic and which one's > for off-topic mail? This is really confusing, and would be getting even more > so. Quite often, off-topic subjects become on-topic and vice versa. What > should we do then - send a message to the on-topic list just when the word > wire appears in it? I too did not know there even *was* another list - since when? Splintering the group is about the surest way to kill it: either people will post to both lists and piss off the people who think their list is for "on-topic" only, or confusion will make people just say fuck it and post to no list. And as Giluz says, there's no clear dividing line between on- and off-topic posts: they often transform one into the other. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/reviews.html ::Drive ten thousand miles across America and you will know more about ::the country than all the institutes of sociology and political science ::put together. __Jean Baudrillard__ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 18:28:11 -0500 From: Carl Archer Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Off Topic - list member musicians unite Wouldn't uploading to an FTP server by the best path? > From: "Katherine Pouliot" > Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 15:33:29 -0500 > To: , "they.wait" > Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Off Topic - list member musicians unite > > so, anyone can e-mail a sound snippet in ? > > >> Here's a suggestion - why don't we all pitch in a sample say no bigger > than >> 500k we then download them manipulate and repost. we can then discuss a >> strategy for arranging and "recording". >> >> but let's get a move on! so we can get a demo to Swim! >> >> >> -- >> They wait... >> ps I think we should avoid any Wire loops ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 20:11:10 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Explanation please! All, Will someone please step forward and explain what the fuck is going on? It ain't broke. It don't need fixing. Mark << > Did anyone actually understand which list is the on-topic and which one's > for off-topic mail? This is really confusing, and would be getting even more > so. Quite often, off-topic subjects become on-topic and vice versa. What > should we do then - send a message to the on-topic list just when the word > wire appears in it? I too did not know there even *was* another list - since when? >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 20:16:19 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Off Topic - list member musicians unite There are probably two types of participant here. 1: Those who are currently "active" musicians who have material they have available to submit. 2: Those of us with the wherewithal to participate but without readily available material. I'm definitely in the latter category - I haven't recorded much for several years and what exists is on portastudio cassettes - hardly ideal for copying (!!) to digital media! I think uploading files to webspace is the best bet - most people have a few megs with their account? So then anyone can download stuff and work on it as they see fit. In my case that probably means de-digitising the stuff and analoguing it up! Mark << > so, anyone can e-mail a sound snippet in ? > > >> Here's a suggestion - why don't we all pitch in a sample say no bigger > than >> 500k we then download them manipulate and repost. we can then discuss a >> strategy for arranging and "recording". >> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 01:18:06 +0000 From: Tim Robinson Subject: [idealcopy] List Members unite whether musician or not!!! > Basically, I think everyone should have the freedom to do anything they want > with it. The whole thing should be based on this 'do your stuff and pass it > around to the next in line' idea. The only guidelines I'd use would be to > try to maintain the concept of the way Wire are making music, i.e. not > Wire's musical style but their way of thinking. I also think that, just for > the hell of it, only wire-related samples/loops could be used. Giluz, I like the idea in principle and indeed my own contribution will probably include a couple of cheeky Wire snippets but really that would limit the number of people that can get involved because it would require them to either have access to a Sampler or a PC....and presumably some of you are reading this at work and can't really start sampling into your Boss's computer? > >i don't want to direct the sounds at all really, so i hesitate to > > analyze too much (especially before we've even done anything!). > > perhaps we > > should just compile our list of who's interested (names, addresses) and > > decide how many "songs" and a duration for each. my instincts tell me we > > should attempt about 3-4 songs, 1-2 short, 1 medium, 1 long. > > I think we should start with just one track, not impose any timing or > styling limitations and see how it goes from there. it's a bit early to talk > about no. of songs or song lengths. On the contrary, I think if the thing is going to work then these kind of details need to be agreed at the outset, otherwise it becomes a meandering shambles that will never be completed. > to this. include name, address, and if you are > > willing/able to > > mix. i'm assuming we're using cassettes. > > No fucking way - where do you guys live? This is not the 80's anymore. Even > the most extreme lo-tech bands don't use them - they're the naffest format > there ever was. I'd be happy to do the CD burnings and mailing stuff, but no > way am I gonna work with analogue compact cassettes. Typical! Someone suggests a musical collaboration and out come the egos! :) The idea has only been floating around for a week and already I feel like I've joined the Beatles circa 'The White Album'.....or worse still Fleetwood Mac when they were making Rumours!! Inter-band fighting already!!! I'm not having a go at Giluz cos he's a good bloke and not normally as agressive as this, but IMHO we have to allow cassettes if we are to involve as many listees as possible. Remember not everyone has a CD writer or a PC capable of recording to hard disk. Perhaps the best idea would be for everyone to contribute on whatever recording medium they choose and then have a list of volunteers who will recieve the material and mix it. I'll happilly do some of the work. Maybe we could persuade messers Gilbert, Lewis, Newman and Gotobed to do something as well?! The project is a good idea but it will be really boring if its just the preserve of the muso's on the list! I want everyone to be involved in this, even if they just read the shipping forecast into a Binatone mono tape recorder or something! Its gotta be open to everyone even if they don't consider themselves musicians, whatever that means. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 19:36:41 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [idealcopy] List Members unite whether musician or not!!! On Thu, 23 Nov 2000, Tim Robinson wrote: > > Giluz, I like the idea in principle and indeed my own contribution will probably > include a couple of cheeky Wire snippets but really that would limit the number of > people that can get involved because it would require them to either have access to a > Sampler or a PC....and presumably some of you are reading this at work and can't > really start sampling into your Boss's computer? > > > > No fucking way - where do you guys live? This is not the 80's anymore. Even > > the most extreme lo-tech bands don't use them - they're the naffest format > > there ever was. I'd be happy to do the CD burnings and mailing stuff, but no > > way am I gonna work with analogue compact cassettes. > > Typical! Someone suggests a musical collaboration and out come the egos! :) > The idea has only been floating around for a week and already I feel like I've joined > the Beatles circa 'The White Album'.....or worse still Fleetwood Mac when they were > making Rumours!! Inter-band fighting already!!! > > I'm not having a go at Giluz cos he's a good bloke and not normally as agressive as > this, but IMHO we have to allow cassettes if we are to involve as many listees as > possible. Remember not everyone has a CD writer or a PC capable of recording to hard > disk. I'd have to agree - the key would be figuring a way to make your medium's limitations into a strength. (Thus quoth the Eno...) I think it'd be interesting if one track were a shiny, digitally perfect sequence and in the other channel is a totally ripped electric guitar recorded through a $20 Radio Shack handheld cassette player... - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/reviews.html ::Being young, carefree, having your whole life ahead of you, ::dancing the night away to celebrate... ::oh, and the untimely death of Jackson Pollock. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 10:19:10 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] List Members unite whether musician or not!!! > Giluz, I like the idea in principle and indeed my own > contribution will probably > include a couple of cheeky Wire snippets but really that would > limit the number of > people that can get involved because it would require them to > either have access to a > Sampler or a PC....and presumably some of you are reading this at > work and can't > really start sampling into your Boss's computer? You didn't ubderstand me - I didn't mean that you'd have to have a wire sample in your track. Just that if you were gonna use a sample taken from somewhere else you should use one by wire. > I'm not having a go at Giluz cos he's a good bloke and not > normally as agressive as > this, but IMHO we have to allow cassettes if we are to involve as > many listees as > possible. Remember not everyone has a CD writer or a PC capable > of recording to hard > disk. Alright, I get the point, but let's do it like this, then: Cassettes would be used only when no other means is available (unless one deliberately wants to use hiss, which is their right). The best way to send files over the internet would be via mp3's (unless you have an ultra-fast connection and can send 10's of Megs of wav/aiff files). I think before we do everything like that, if we're getting into the technical side like which format should we use and how we send it, let's first see who's interested and what means they've got. Then, based on what we know, we can form a strategy. So, starting with me, I'm quite equipped as to the hardware and software side, 'cause I kinda started to get into music-making quite seriously in the last few months. I can send the file/s on a CDR via snail mail, or upload it to my freespace site, where I have lots of space. This could theoretically be used by all members, but I heard that lots of people have problems with it - a much better solution would be if someone has an ftp server we could use. they're much more reliable and fast. > > Perhaps the best idea would be for everyone to contribute on > whatever recording > medium they choose and then have a list of volunteers who will > recieve the material > and mix it. I'll happilly do some of the work. > Maybe we could persuade messers Gilbert, Lewis, Newman and > Gotobed to do something as > well?! > > The project is a good idea but it will be really boring if its > just the preserve of > the muso's on the list! > I want everyone to be involved in this, even if they just read > the shipping forecast > into a Binatone mono tape recorder or something! > Its gotta be open to everyone even if they don't consider > themselves musicians, > whatever that means. I like the idea of everyone from the list contributing something, but I don't think wire members should be involved - it's like having Malka make her own presentation for her project - anyway, it's too soon to talk about things like that when we have nothing yet. giluz ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #351 *******************************