From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #350 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, November 22 2000 Volume 03 : Number 350 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] OFF TOPIC - Goldfrapp live on XFM [Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk] [idealcopy] Re: Malka's project/ music compo [Howard Spencer ] [idealcopy] Posteverything [Michael Flaherty ] [idealcopy] colin vinyl [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Off Topic - advertising [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] Re: RE: [idealcopy] Off Topic - list member musicians unite [Tim Robinson] Re: [idealcopy] Off Topic - Better Music for Commercials Worldwid e! [Ma] Re: RE: [idealcopy] Off Topic - list member musicians unite [Eardrumbuz@a] [idealcopy] On/Off Topic? ["giluz" ] RE: [idealcopy] Noise Project - computer music ["giluz" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Malka's project/ music compo No one (on the digest, at any rate) has yet mentioned the provisional completion of Malka's project. This is at the point now where the contributors are being asked to approve or add texts, so I'd best not broadcast the URL, I guess (have no strong feelings myself but don't want to put anyone out). I just wanted to say that I thought the results were really impressive, and as my line manager says (very irritatingly) `well done to all concerned'. I'd be well up for contributing something to a music compilation. Don't know how noisy it would be, though. Part of my thing (only part of it, mind) is novelty pop. I had a hand in all the downloads at http://www.komfymeat.com if anyone is interested. Howard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 05:42:41 -0800 (PST) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: [idealcopy] sniffing glue... I'd thoroughly recommend it. If only to debunk the claims that punk rockers were politically sussed urban guerilla types. Perry and Baker's (and another whose names escapes me) writing is v. naive. I hope I'm not offending anyone on the list when I laugh at the Kursal Flyers and Blue Oyster Cult. The Hammersmith Gorrillas pass on account of those sideburns and their cover of You Really Got Me. John - --- WAndyComer@aol.com wrote: > what's the lowdown on this "sniffing glue" book? > author? publisher? > intrigued, > andy Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 05:45:15 -0800 (PST) From: John Roberts Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Off Topic - list members musicians I happen to know (cos I live in Leicester) that Yeah Yeah Noh used to write most of their songs by post. (One of them lived in Birmingham, one Liverpool, two Leicester.) John > Wasn't there a band (forgot the name) where one > member lived in US, the > other one somewhere in Switzerland or Belgium > (forgot as well), they never > met each other in person, but kept writing albums by > emailing pieces back > and forth? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 16:07:21 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Off Topic - list members musicians > I happen to know (cos I live in Leicester) that Yeah > Yeah Noh used to write most of their songs by post. > (One of them lived in Birmingham, one Liverpool, two > Leicester.) > > John > Fucking lazy bastards :) - I mean, it's not like a different country or anything - and it's all England, not even Wales or scotland... giluz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:12:09 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] sniffing glue... << I'd thoroughly recommend it. If only to debunk the claims that punk rockers were politically sussed urban guerilla types. Perry and Baker's (and another whose names escapes me) writing is v. naive. I hope I'm not offending anyone on the list when I laugh at the Kursal Flyers and Blue Oyster Cult. The Hammersmith Gorrillas pass on account of those sideburns and their cover of You Really Got Me. John //////i think the naivety is really touching , before there became a standardised "punk" way of doing things. the other guy was called steve mick , i think he was the resident old hippy. the KF's always made me laugh , have you seen that old b&w documentary about them slogging round in an old van? almost a british spinal tap.p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 14:12:42 +0000 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Off Topic - list members musicians But then again. Where would they meet. Birmingham, urrgh. Liverpool, not likely. Leicester, oh dear. Sorry John, I was born in Doncaster so bring on the flames. : ) Chris. "giluz" on 21/11/2000 14:07:21 To: "IdealCopy" , "John Roberts" cc: (bcc: Chris Ray/Finance/MEDAS) Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Off Topic - list members musicians > I happen to know (cos I live in Leicester) that Yeah > Yeah Noh used to write most of their songs by post. > (One of them lived in Birmingham, one Liverpool, two > Leicester.) > > John > Fucking lazy bastards :) - I mean, it's not like a different country or anything - and it's all England, not even Wales or scotland... giluz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 14:46:44 +0000 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: [idealcopy] Off Topic - Not a lot will be interested but . . Well, apologies for another off-topic post. The multi-national giant Gap have a new series of ads out. No, I don't think Mobby is providing the music. He's sticking to car adverts & BBC programme links. Badly Drawn Boy do appear and get this Low - Little Drummer Boy from there Christmas EP. Big deal, eh? No? Well, for me yes! It's not that I want to keep the music "secret" or deny these people their "fame" but oh, come on. Lisa Gerard - Sanvean on an advert for NHS. What's next GSYBE advertising fruit gums for Christ's sake. Any comments? The Information in this communication is confidential and may be privileged and should be treated by the recipient accordingly. If you are not the intended recipient please notify me immediately. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose its contents to any other person. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:09:52 -0600 From: "Ciscon, Ray" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Off Topic - Better Music for Commercials Worldwid e! Chris wrote: The multi-national giant Gap have a new series of ads out. Badly Drawn Boy do appear and get this Low - Little Drummer Boy from there Christmas EP. Big deal, eh? No? Well, for me yes! It's not that I want to keep the music "secret" or deny these people their "fame" but oh, come on. Lisa Gerard - Sanvean on an advert for NHS. What's next GSYBE advertising fruit gums for Christ's sake. Any comments? ================ Yep, I've got comments... it looks like the quality of music on commercials is going to improve. As long as the artists get paid for the use of their music, I don't have a problem with it. The artists DON'T have to allow the use of their music, but it can be very lucrative for them to do so. My guess is that Stereolab and Fluke have made more money in the USA from Volkswagen commercials than from actual CD sales. But then again, I may be the only admitted capitalist on this list... :-) Cheers, Ray Ciscon Remote Office LAN/WAN Support Manager Comark, Inc. Carthago delenda est! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 15:23:14 +0000 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Off Topic - Better Music for Commercials Worldwid e! Good point, Ray. I'm still going to skip Little Drummer Boy when I play the Low EP. As soon as the first "Par-rap-a-pa" drifts out, I know, my mind will be projecting an image of 5 chiselled-faced figures walking towards the camera and fake snowflakes. If I see that commercial again I shall bury my head in my jersey. That's my Gap jersey. Doh! Chris. "Ciscon, Ray" on 21/11/2000 15:09:52 To: idealcopy@smoe.org cc: (bcc: Chris Ray/Finance/MEDAS) Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Off Topic - Better Music for Commercials Worldwid e! Chris wrote: The multi-national giant Gap have a new series of ads out. Badly Drawn Boy do appear and get this Low - Little Drummer Boy from there Christmas EP. Big deal, eh? No? Well, for me yes! It's not that I want to keep the music "secret" or deny these people their "fame" but oh, come on. Lisa Gerard - Sanvean on an advert for NHS. What's next GSYBE advertising fruit gums for Christ's sake. Any comments? ================ Yep, I've got comments... it looks like the quality of music on commercials is going to improve. As long as the artists get paid for the use of their music, I don't have a problem with it. The artists DON'T have to allow the use of their music, but it can be very lucrative for them to do so. My guess is that Stereolab and Fluke have made more money in the USA from Volkswagen commercials than from actual CD sales. But then again, I may be the only admitted capitalist on this list... :-) Cheers, Ray Ciscon Remote Office LAN/WAN Support Manager Comark, Inc. Carthago delenda est! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 10:27:03 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Off Topic - list member musicians unite Definitely seems the best way to go. Count me in. Mark << >I think it would be even more interesting, since >a few people already offered to assemble it, that anyone who can would >do it >as well - then we'd have a few different mixes to the same tracks, each >track and each mix done by a different person. What do you think? fantastic, of course! i was going to mention something to this effect in my original post, but didn't want to get too wordy or seem presumptuous. so, right on! -paul c.d. >> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 17:34:37 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Off Topic - Better Music for Commercials Worldwid e! Ray wrote: > Yep, I've got comments... it looks like the quality of music on > commercials > is going to improve. > > As long as the artists get paid for the use of their music, I don't have a > problem with it. The artists DON'T have to allow the use of their > music, but > it can be very lucrative for them to do so. > My guess is that Stereolab and Fluke have made more money in the USA from > Volkswagen commercials than from actual CD sales. > > But then again, I may be the only admitted capitalist on this list... :-) > ======================= Sorry to disapoint you, but I think you're right (this happened too frequently in the last few months - we agree too much. something must be wrong here...). As long as the artists agree and make money out of it, I've got no objection. In Israel we have a very small and evil-minded music industry - all musicians, except for the 5-6 biggest, hardly make any money out of their profession. Commercials are sometimes these people's only real income, unless they want to play circus in the naff talk shows (and even those are not enough for anyone supporting a family). I'd rather have people do commercials and make money out of them than making it on their albums. I know this sounds weird, but this can actually take the pressure off the artist and enable him to concentrate on doing his own thing instead of trying to please everyone in order to sell. Don't get me wrong - I don't like commercials, and I don't like the way commercials use music promote their products. But I'd never blame the artists for doing this (we're talking alternative here, I'm not talking about Michael Jackson doing a few more millions [he paid for that dearly - didn't he?]). giluz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 15:11:41 -0500 From: "Katherine Pouliot" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Off Topic - Gap Ads... I like the Little Drummer Boy music, better than other ads. What does NHS stand for? (duh) I still like Moby, getting a little tired of his personal antics, though (yawn). But I wouldn't mind hearing Lisa Gerrard on tv sometimes. Nothing wrong with that, IMO. On the same topic, an offshoot, though - just something I was thinking this weekend. I was watching the classic Willy Wonka movie and I figured out where all these dancing Gap ads came from - the Oompa Loompas! I mean, they're standing in a V shape, dancing around and singing, with matching clothes on. Right? At the very least, it could be a very funny fake commercial - to put that to music and have the Gap logo on it. Who else agrees with me? . '-) kath ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 20:12:10 +0000 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Off Topic - Gap Ads... NHS stands for National Health Service. I will have to rent the Wonka video and comment some other time. Chris. "Katherine Pouliot" on 21/11/2000 20:11:41 To: idealcopy@smoe.org, Chris Ray/Finance/MEDAS cc: Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Off Topic - Gap Ads... I like the Little Drummer Boy music, better than other ads. What does NHS stand for? (duh) I still like Moby, getting a little tired of his personal antics, though (yawn). But I wouldn't mind hearing Lisa Gerrard on tv sometimes. Nothing wrong with that, IMO. On the same topic, an offshoot, though - just something I was thinking this weekend. I was watching the classic Willy Wonka movie and I figured out where all these dancing Gap ads came from - the Oompa Loompas! I mean, they're standing in a V shape, dancing around and singing, with matching clothes on. Right? At the very least, it could be a very funny fake commercial - to put that to music and have the Gap logo on it. Who else agrees with me? . '-) kath ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 20:45:25 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Noise Project I fiddle about with Audiomulch on my computer - sine tones, white noise, delay & ring modulator can keep me occupied for hours on end. I used to play guitar &n do most of the shouting in a trio who were described as 'a cross between Joy Division & Trumans Water' although I always thought we sounded like a very bad version of Live Skull. We used to cover 'Smile' by the Fall and 'The Other Window'. Anyway, what format should these contributions to the Ideal Copy Audio Explosion be in? I prefer to use cassettes... what a luddite. Lock up your hats! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine webzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 14:58:34 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Off Topic - Better Music for Commercials Worldwid e! On Tue, 21 Nov 2000 Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk wrote: > Good point, Ray. I'm still going to skip Little Drummer Boy when I play the > Low EP. As soon as the first "Par-rap-a-pa" drifts out, I know, my mind > will be projecting an image of 5 chiselled-faced figures walking towards > the camera and fake snowflakes. If I see that commercial again I shall bury > my head in my jersey. That's my Gap jersey. Doh! *sigh* First of all, you'll probably only remember the commercial for a short while after it runs, if the song itself is any good. Second, if you're that worried about the song's impression being polluted for you, do what I do: hit the MUTE button every time a commercial comes on. And if you're curious, because everyone's nattering on about the soundtrack to a commercial, you can hear it - once - and avoid having the image/sound association burned into your skull. Oddly perhaps, I'm less irked by *less* popular artists allowing *less* popular tracks to be used in commercials than I am by popular bands using popular tracks. I guess my logic is that the more popular band doesn't need the money (the low-level band, as Ray points out, probably makes more money from the commercials than from CD sales). I think it also matters whehter the commercial is any good. Someone will doubtless crucify me - but i think the Nick Drake/VW ad is very well done, and is an effective use of the song that's more or less sensitive to the song. That is, the ad's less about selling VWs than it is about associating a certain kind of mood with WVs, a mood established by the plotline and visuals of the ad and reinforced by Drake's song. And I'm sure his estate is well pleased also. And I'm pretty sick of the attitude that says, for example, if someone only discovered Nick Drake through the ads that makes that person some sort of poseur. Good music is where you find it, early or late. On the other hand, I dislike the more direct sort of music/ad associations...like Xerox using "The Ideal Copy," say. And I like instrumental excerpts in ads better than ads that attempt to call upon the lyrics of a song. As for the "selling out" aspect: there's a huge difference between tryhing to make enough money to live on and continue making music - which god knows we should all support among bands we like - and being greedy. This is why Sting must die. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/reviews.html ::This is America. People do whatever the fuck they feel like doing.... ::As a result, this country has one of the worst economies in the world. __Neal Stephenson, SNOW CRASH__ np: Early Day Miners _Placer Found_ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 16:02:55 -0500 From: "Katherine Pouliot" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Noise Project Is Audiomulch a Mac program? My husband was just asking me what people are using to mix music and create music on Macs these days...Any program names anyone can recommend?? Thanks! Kath ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 15:31:13 -0600 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] Posteverything Stock will be delivered to posteverything and I'll put an >announcement about prices / ordering on the pf site when we have it. I assume from this that he doesn't expect Posteverything to be up anytime "soon" (but they'll keep us informed). I wish they would make everything available to sisterray. Then we could order online. Yes, I do realize how spoiled the net has made me, ;-) Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 17:31:27 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] colin vinyl if anyones interested , a german website called www.funrecords.de has cheap vinyl copies of commercial suicide and (better) the interview 12". way too much stuff to bother ploughing through and a few cheap (but not rare) wire things. but maybe worth a look.p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 19:09:42 EST From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Off Topic - advertising i'd say, let the artists get their $$ if that's what they want to do with their music. i know, given my own financial state, i'd jump at the chance to have my music on a gap or vw commercial. of course the beatles were in a much different financial situation all the time they were asked to sell products and flatly refused. michael jackson is such an asshole. - -paul c.d. In a message dated 11/21/0 11:03:36 AM, Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk writes: >Low - Little Drummer Boy from there >Christmas EP. Big deal, eh? No? Well, for me yes! It's not that I want >to >keep the music "secret" or deny these people their "fame" but oh, come >on. >Lisa Gerard - Sanvean on an advert for NHS. What's next GSYBE advertising >fruit gums for Christ's sake. >Any comments? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 00:20:22 +0000 From: Tim Robinson Subject: Re: RE: [idealcopy] Off Topic - list member musicians unite I've been watching this thread and I think this is a darn good idea. Kind of a MZUI thing really isn't it. I few lists I've been on have done tribute CDs of bad cover versions, perhaps it would be fitting for IdealCopy members to do something like this in the spirit of Wire but not actually imitating them....I'm sure Wire would be interested in the whole idea...ties in nicely with Malkas thing as well. I'll happily contribute and execute some of the items! I'm sure even listees that don't have access to musical instruments could contribute some noises or whatever. Over to you Eardumbuz! > > > In a message dated 11/20/0 5:44:09 AM, giluz@nettalk.com writes: > > >I think it would be even more interesting, since > >a few people already offered to assemble it, that anyone who can would > >do it > >as well - then we'd have a few different mixes to the same tracks, each > >track and each mix done by a different person. What do you think? > > fantastic, of course! i was going to mention something to this effect in my > original post, but didn't want to get too wordy or seem presumptuous. so, > right on! > > - -paul c.d. > > ------------------------------ > > End of idealcopy-digest V3 #349 > ******************************* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 21:01:15 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Off Topic - Better Music for Commercials Worldwid e! Jeff, Currently the Argos poor-quality catalogue shopping emporium is using Status Quo's "Whatever you want" to peddle its wares. For Xmas, they've made a special new version which fetaures sleigh bells and a sort of oompah bassline. It's somehow strangely perfect, and brings a smile to my face when I see the ad. Not that I have any intention of buying anything from Argos, mind. And yes, Sting must indeed die, for that wretched Jaguar advert alone. Mark << On the other hand, I dislike the more direct sort of music/ad associations...like Xerox using "The Ideal Copy," say. And I like instrumental excerpts in ads better than ads that attempt to call upon the lyrics of a song. As for the "selling out" aspect: there's a huge difference between tryhing to make enough money to live on and continue making music - which god knows we should all support among bands we like - and being greedy. This is why Sting must die. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 00:03:46 EST From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: RE: [idealcopy] Off Topic - list member musicians unite In a message dated 11/21/0 8:21:28 PM, timrobinson@cwcom.net writes: >perhaps it would be fitting for IdealCopy members to do something >like this in the spirit of Wire but not actually imitating them....I'm >sure Wire >would be interested in the whole idea...ties in nicely with Malkas thing >as well. i was thinking (hoping with fingers crossed actually) the same thing. i envision some pretty interesting sound collages coming out of this. i'd love to hear opinions on whether there should be any structure/guidelines at all, besides that each player would play for the same amount of time. for example, if 3 participants create drum tracks for the same piece, there's a good chance things'll get ugly. is that a bad thing? i do have faith in those of you who would be mixing the tracks to do the best that can be done for each track. i don't want to direct the sounds at all really, so i hesitate to analyze too much (especially before we've even done anything!). perhaps we should just compile our list of who's interested (names, addresses) and decide how many "songs" and a duration for each. my instincts tell me we should attempt about 3-4 songs, 1-2 short, 1 medium, 1 long. personal info can be mailed to me offlist. i'll compile the list and send to all who reply to this. include name, address, and if you are willing/able to mix. i'm assuming we're using cassettes. ***also, if y'all wanna take the rest of this discussion to the idealcopyists list @egroups, that'd be fine with me. cheers! - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 10:55:48 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: [idealcopy] On/Off Topic? Hi all, Did anyone actually understand which list is the on-topic and which one's for off-topic mail? This is really confusing, and would be getting even more so. Quite often, off-topic subjects become on-topic and vice versa. What should we do then - send a message to the on-topic list just when the word wire appears in it? giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 11:23:21 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Noise Project - computer music Kath wrote: > > Is Audiomulch a Mac program? My husband was just asking me what people are > using to mix music and create music on Macs these days...Any program names > anyone can recommend?? Steinberg's Cubase VST and Digidesign's Pro-Tools are probably the most common programmes for creating/mixing music. I'm not much familliar with Pro-Tools, but I know that it's considered to be superior to Cubase as far as audio manipulation and user-friendliness go. However, it's not only software - there's some hardware you have to buy in order to wxploit it to its full capabilities. A demo version of the software (no hardware needed here) is avilable from digidesign's site (http://209.10.227.211/) so you can check it out. Steinberg's Cubase was (I think) the first personal computer based sequencer (released originally for Atari computers). A few years ago they added audio capabilities. Version 5.0 for the Macintosh is due any day now. You can download the demo of version 4.1 from Steinberg's site (www.steinberg.de). Apart from that you'd need a wave editor. I don't remember which company made it but Peak is the most common wave editor for the mac. A good loop-editing programme, based on Sonic Foundry's Acid for PC, is due this month from Bitheadz. It's called Phraser, and you can find the info on their site (no demo is avilable as yet - www.bitheadz.com). By the way - Cubase was used on Wire's 80's albums (they were one of the first to use it) and on most of Colin & Malka's stuff. They've been working with Pro-Tools for the last few months. cheers, giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 11:33:49 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: RE: [idealcopy] Off Topic - list member musicians unite > i was thinking (hoping with fingers crossed actually) the same thing. i > envision some pretty interesting sound collages coming out of > this. i'd love > to hear opinions on whether there should be any > structure/guidelines at all, > besides that each player would play for the same amount of time. Basically, I think everyone should have the freedom to do anything they want with it. The whole thing should be based on this 'do your stuff and pass it around to the next in line' idea. The only guidelines I'd use would be to try to maintain the concept of the way Wire are making music, i.e. not Wire's musical style but their way of thinking. I also think that, just for the hell of it, only wire-related samples/loops could be used. >i don't want to direct the sounds at all really, so i hesitate to > analyze too much (especially before we've even done anything!). > perhaps we > should just compile our list of who's interested (names, addresses) and > decide how many "songs" and a duration for each. my instincts tell me we > should attempt about 3-4 songs, 1-2 short, 1 medium, 1 long. I think we should start with just one track, not impose any timing or styling limitations and see how it goes from there. it's a bit early to talk about no. of songs or song lengths. > > personal info can be mailed to me offlist. i'll compile the list > and send to > all who reply to this. include name, address, and if you are > willing/able to > mix. i'm assuming we're using cassettes. No fucking way - where do you guys live? This is not the 80's anymore. Even the most extreme lo-tech bands don't use them - they're the naffest format there ever was. I'd be happy to do the CD burnings and mailing stuff, but no way am I gonna work with analogue compact cassettes. cheers, giluz ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #350 *******************************