From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #336 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, November 7 2000 Volume 03 : Number 336 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [idealcopy] On Topic - Finest Drops: ABIAC vs. IBTABA versions [Jason] [idealcopy] Off-Topic: Add N to (X) follow-up ["giluz" ] Re: [idealcopy] Solo Wire [Mark Short ] Re: [idealcopy] On Topic - Finest Drops: ABIAC vs. IBTABA versions ["Paul] [idealcopy] Production back in two halves [Wireviews ] [idealcopy] Drill [Wireviews ] Re: [idealcopy] Solo Wire [Rick Hindman ] RE: [idealcopy] Solo Wire ["Ciscon, Ray" ] Re: [idealcopy] Solo Wire [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Solo Wire [Paul Pietromonaco ] RE: [idealcopy] Solo Wire ["Ciscon, Ray" ] RE: [idealcopy] Solo Wire [Paul Pietromonaco ] Re: [idealcopy] Solo Wire [MarkBursa@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 03:34:46 -0800 From: Jason Borchers Subject: RE: [idealcopy] On Topic - Finest Drops: ABIAC vs. IBTABA versions > > Wire, for me, is one of the few bands who can successfully remake >> their own >> material, and find valid things to say in the new versions. (Even The >> Drill album has its moments (^_^) - > >Am I the only one who thinks Drill is a brilliant album then? You might be. Don't feel too bad, though -- I'm starting to think I'm the only one who likes the original "In Vivo" mix better than the single versions. (Why did they get rid of that fantastic guitar part?) - -- Jason Borchers jasonmb@calweb.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 13:51:43 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: [idealcopy] Off-Topic: Add N to (X) follow-up Yesterday I slagged them off. Today I listened to the CD again and it sounds much better. True - there's nothing new here - it's all the same stuff they were doing in their last album, but it's a fun record. So, if you liked the previous, you'd probably like this one too. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 10:21:27 -0600 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] Solo Wire I have yet to hear any of Dome or >> solo projects, so can anyone suggest a good way to >> start on that side of their material? I don't disagree w/ what's been said so far ... particularly that for the rock/pop side of things Colin's A-Z is a good choice; I would add the PO cd (a short lived band that Graham and Bruce were in ... available through wiremailorder.com). For something less commercial, Dome 12 (their first 2 albums on one cd) is an excellent choice. If you love that, keep going. If not, you should probably stick primarily w/ Colin. While people are throwing out some things in which they bet they're alone: I like the solo projects (over all) better than 80s Wire. Preparing to duck, Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 16:38:55 +0000 From: Mark Short Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Solo Wire Michael Flaherty wrote: > I don't disagree w/ what's been said so far ... particularly that for the > rock/pop side of things Colin's A-Z is a good choice; I would add the PO cd > (a short lived band that Graham and Bruce were in ... available through > wiremailorder.com). > Also quite accessible are the two He Said albums. He Said was a Graham Lewis project. IMHO those two albums are the closest to 80's Wire of the various solo items. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 09:01:18 -0800 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] On Topic - Finest Drops: ABIAC vs. IBTABA versions > > Wire, for me, is one of the few bands who can successfully remake > > their own > > material, and find valid things to say in the new versions. (Even The > > Drill album has its moments (^_^) - > > Am I the only one who thinks Drill is a brilliant album then? > For me, The Drill and Manscape are the two "troubled" Wire albums. Both are infinitely better than, say a Brittany Spears album (^_^), yet, compared to other works that Wire had done, they fall a little short somehow - in my opinion, anyway. I think that The Drill started off great - - especially the first two cuts - and has some valid thought behind it, but oddly enough for me, it wasn't quite inventive enough. Some of the songs sound like re-mixes instead of the radical re-inventing I was hoping for. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 09:27:06 -0800 (PST) From: Wireviews Subject: [idealcopy] Production back in two halves > in a recent colin interview he seemed to hate > the production on all the 80's albums except > IBTABA. About right really. Production also killed Manscape and wounded TFL, although Drill wasn't badly produced. > a real favourite of mine is the re-recorded > "come back in 2 halves". on the a-list poll i > see it polled nil points so i fear i may be > alone here.p I really like that track too. I guess Mute's A List really ended up with all the usual suspects, although having said that, Come Back in Two Halves has scored sod-all on the Wireviews A List too, but then I have been getting a suspicious amount of votes containing just EMI stuff recently. Shame nothing from later than 1990 is included... Craig. ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. Snub.Comms: http://welcome.to/snub Veer Audio: http://listen.to/veer - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 09:30:26 -0800 (PST) From: Wireviews Subject: [idealcopy] Best of solo >For the ~swim material, I'd start with Bastard >or with Colin and Malka's live album (can only > be obtained via ~swim on CDR), I'd agree with that. I got sick of Bastard about a year a go, but started playing it again recently and now really like it again. It's certainly the best solo Newman release in my view (although I'd bet at least 75% of the list would disagree with that!) I just wish some of the sounds were a bit stronger, particularly 'meaty drums'. > I'm not too familliar with Graham and > Bruce's work, but Dome's Yclept is very > good and sounds like a good place to > start from (buy it from WMO [wire mail order]). Yclept is good, but not as good as the Mute Grey Dome reissues, notably Dome 2, which is exceptional. Best Graham solo is undoubtedly Hox, which is in very short supply, apparently, so get a copy *now*! Best Bruce is probably Ab Ovo, or maybe even Shivering Man. Craig. ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. Snub.Comms: http://welcome.to/snub Veer Audio: http://listen.to/veer - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 09:32:38 -0800 (PST) From: Wireviews Subject: [idealcopy] Drill > Am I the only one who thinks Drill is a brilliant > album then? > > giluz Probably. I think it has its moments, especially Jumping Mint and In Every City, but it really loses its way abuot half way through. Berlin Drill is awful and the like take is far weaker than the great one on the Kidney Bingos single/ABIAC CD. Craig. ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. Snub.Comms: http://welcome.to/snub Veer Audio: http://listen.to/veer - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 09:38:25 -0800 (PST) From: Rick Hindman Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Solo Wire Thanks for the responses... As it stands, I am going through the material based on finances, unfortunately. That said, I recently was in a cool music store in San Jose and found ABIAC for $7.00 and snapped it up! I was kind of looking for solo stuff but the only one was a new copy of DOME 1 & 2 for $17.00!! ouch! Some of the discussions about reinvented songs make alot more sense now, as well! I have to agree with the Finest Drops on IBTABA being better. I haven't come down on which "It's a Boy" and "Boiling Boy" version I like best. I still haven't heard a version of "Public Place" that I like, though. > I don't disagree w/ what's been said so far ... > particularly that for the > rock/pop side of things Colin's A-Z is a good > choice; I would add the PO cd > (a short lived band that Graham and Bruce were in > ... available through > wiremailorder.com). > > For something less commercial, Dome 12 (their first > 2 albums on one cd) is > an excellent choice. If you love that, keep going. > If not, you should > probably stick primarily w/ Colin. I'll check a bit of each. My main music listening now comes from King Crimson, The Residents and KMFDM, so I enjoy the power as well as the pop. > > Preparing to duck, Heaven forbid that a person's opinion is held against them! Thanks all! RJH ===== - ----------------------------------------------------------- "Learn to handle hot things, keep your knives sharp, and above all, have a good time. - -Julia Child - ----------------------------------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 11:56:49 -0600 From: "Ciscon, Ray" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Solo Wire To add my 2 cents on the Solo Wire subject, I'll recount my own experiences. My first wire solo purchase was Colin's "A to Z", pronounced 'A to Zed' for us Americans. I didn't particularly care for it, probably because of the similarity in sound to the 70's Wire, which reflects my preference to 80's era Wire. Next was the delightful combo CD of two Colin Newman solo releases, 'Not To/Provisionally Entitled the Singing Fish'. The 'Singing Fish' portion of the CD contains instrumental bits that give a feeling of almost cinematic soundtrack quality that I find quite tasty, but tends to annoy my wife and friends. The 'Not To' portion IMO provides a nice bridge between the 70's and 80's versions of Wire. The songs are much more up tempo, brighter, perhaps happier than those on 'A to Z'. It also contains my favorite Colin song, 'Lorries', a delightful truck trip around Europa... NOT to be confused with the earlier dirge-like Wire demo of the same name. My next purchase was Graham Lewis' H-A-L-O release, which I quite enjoyed. To my ears, it's 'Wir' updated just a bit with some 'adventurous' elements added in. Upon the recommendation of a British gentlemen working at my local Borders, I picked up the first 'He Said' release, 'Hail', which I found to be OK, with the exception of 'Pump' which I can find myself to this day humming the bass line to at random times. I then picked up the second 'He Said' release, 'Take Care', which was pretty good as well. As stated by others, these releases are closely related to the 80's era Wire, but I don't find it nearly as captivating as the 80's Wire releases themselves. I purchased 'Dome 1/2' and Dome 2/3' but found their soundscape experiments a bit too esoteric for my tastes... I like a melody. I then picked up Colin's 'Bastard' release, which I really like. My own current tastes have migrated to Techno and progressive trance of the armchair variety, (aka NeoClassical), so Bastard was right up my alley. I've got to get off of my butt one of these days and pick up some more ~swim stuff.. [Off Topic] - Have any of you, particularly our UK list members, heard the new releases by A3 (Alabama 3) or Alison Goldfrapp? If so, what are your opinions? I really loved A3's first album, and Ms. Goldfrapp's aural additions to Orbital's music. Cheers, Ray Ciscon Remote Office LAN/WAN Support Manager Comark, Inc. In order to provide the best level of support, please contact: The I.S. Support Center at extension 4357 ** Every support call should begin with a call to the I. S. Support Center. ** Carthago delenda est. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 13:34:51 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Solo Wire Ray, << It also contains my favorite Colin song, 'Lorries', a delightful truck trip around Europa... NOT to be confused with the earlier dirge-like Wire demo of the same name. >> Even though it is, in effect, the same song, speeded up and with new lyrics.... mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 12:11:47 -0800 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Solo Wire >While people are throwing out some things in which they bet they're alone: >I like the solo projects (over all) better than 80s Wire. > >Preparing to duck, > Quack! I say again - QUACK!!! (^_^) - -Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 14:23:34 -0600 From: "Ciscon, Ray" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Solo Wire Paul wrote: >I like the solo projects (over all) better than 80s Wire. ============== That doesn't surprise me at all. I'd guess that your opinion matches close to 50% of the Wire fans who prefer the 70's over the 80's iterations of Wire. Cheers, Ray (an 80's Wire guy) Ciscon Remote Office LAN/WAN Support Manager Comark, Inc. In order to provide the best level of support, please contact: The I.S. Support Center at extension 4357 ** Every support call should begin with a call to the I. S. Support Center. ** Carthago delenda est. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 12:52:53 -0800 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Solo Wire >To add my 2 cents on the Solo Wire subject, I'll recount my own experiences. > I think I shall too! (^_^) Good reviews, Ray - very well thought out. I'll attempt to review the solo projects from my perspective with the same candor. >My first wire solo purchase was Colin's "A to Z" Oddly enough, my first solo purchase, too. (^_^) For me, A-Z sounds complete in and of itself - nothing like anything attempted before or since. It is by far my favorite solo release. To paraphrase the Trouser Press guide "It sounds like you've been drugged and locked in a room with an inquisitor who shouts senseless questions at you." >Next was the delightful combo CD of two Colin Newman solo releases, 'Not >To/Provisionally Entitled the Singing Fish'. I'm actually not so keen on these two. The Singing Fish instrumentals, while clever and well played, just aren't too memorable for me. And, Not To sounds too demo-ish for me. I miss the "wide-scream" production you hear on A-Z. In fact, to me, Not To sounds like late period 70's wire demos - maybe because a few of the songs are reworked Wire tunes (see Turns & Strokes/Document & Eyewitness). Did you ever hear Colin's other two solo albums? Commercial Suicide or It Seems? Commercial Suicide was too "romantic" for me, I guess - too orchestral, maybe. But, It Seems I rather enjoyed. Not manic at all - kinda pastoral. Plus, it has "Better Later Than Never" which is a terrific tune. >My next purchase was Graham Lewis' H-A-L-O release, which I quite enjoyed. H.A.L.O.'s Immanent is quite good. I think I prefer He Said's Take + Care a little more, but I like them both. Hail is problematic for me. It's very well crafted - Pump is great, Flagwearing & Only One I nearly so - but I have a problem with the sheer sonic density of the recording. Too many ideas at once, I guess. Haven't heard any Dome - I probably should. I do have the preHE CD - it's pretty cool industrial music - I enjoy it, but I'm not a real aficionado of the genre, so don't go by my recommendation on this one. Colin's Bastard is interesting, but I don't find myself playing it very often. I really enjoyed the Immersion stuff I heard at RFH - I will probably investigate them more in the future. I don't really have much too much solo Bruce. I do have the A.C. Marias release. It's great to chill out to. I still love the song "One of Our Girls (Has Gone Missing)" - the video is fantastic for this one! (^_^) I do have Bruce's Sub Pop single. It's not really a single per se - it's more of a Do-It-Yourself art project. (You're supposed to play both sides of the single simultaneously. Can be a lot of fun if you do it right. (^_^)) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 22:29:54 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Solo Wire Ray, << Which one do you prefer? >> The Not To one, without a doubt. Much as I love 'D&E' period Wire, I've always been a sucker for Not To. Definitely my favourite solo Wire work. Mark ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #336 *******************************