From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #335 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Monday, November 6 2000 Volume 03 : Number 335 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [idealcopy] On Topic - Finest Drops: ABIAC vs. IBTABA versions ["gilu] [idealcopy] OFF-TOPIC: Add N To (X) new CD ["giluz" ] Re: [idealcopy] On Topic - Finest Drops: ABIAC vs. IBTABA versions [PaulR] Re: [idealcopy] Off topic - embarrasing records/gigs [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] RE: [idealcopy] On Topic - Finest Drops: ABIAC vs. IBTABA versions ["gilu] [idealcopy] Off-Topic: PJ Harvey ["giluz" ] Re: [idealcopy] On Topic - Finest Drops: ABIAC vs. IBTABA versions [PaulR] Re: [idealcopy] Off-Topic: PJ Harvey [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] FW: [idealcopy] Off-Topic: PJ Harvey ["giluz" ] [idealcopy] Malka Project [Wireviews ] Re: [idealcopy] Off-Topic: PJ Harvey ["Paul Pietromonaco" ] Re: [idealcopy] On Topic - Finest Drops: ABIAC vs. IBTABA versions ["Paul] Re: [idealcopy] On Topic - Finest Drops: ABIAC vs. IBTABA versions ["Paul] [idealcopy] Solo stuff (was Re: On Topic - Finest Drops: ABIAC vs. IBTABA versions) ["Syarzhuk Kazachenka" ] RE: [idealcopy] On Topic - Finest Drops: ABIAC vs. IBTABA versions ["gilu] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 12:27:04 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] On Topic - Finest Drops: ABIAC vs. IBTABA versions > Then I found pinkflag.com and this list and have been > rediscovering them! I have yet to hear any of Dome or > solo projects, so can anyone suggest a good way to > start on that side of their material? I'm more of an expert on Colin's solo projects, and I don't know whether you included his stuff in the things you didn't hear, but I'd recommend his A-Z from 1980 - a kinda extreme version of early Wire. Tends to get a bit hysteric from time to time (especially the singing), but the songs and the sounds are great. For the ~swim material, I'd start with Bastard or with Colin and Malka's live album (can only be obtained via ~swim on CDR), but everything else is also worth it. I'm not too familliar with Graham and Bruce's work, but Dome's Yclept is very good and sounds like a good place to start from (buy it from WMO [wire mail order]). giluz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 12:32:03 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: [idealcopy] OFF-TOPIC: Add N To (X) new CD Just heard it once, but it sounds a bit too similar to their excellent last album. I'm getting a bit tired of this usage of old gear like analogue synths and vocoders - I mean, they're great instruments, but it starts to sound more retro than new stuff. Alright - we know that old equipment is great - we like Kratwerk, we like elctronics and weird noises. So stop using these things like a statement and start using it to make music!!! cheers, giluz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 09:35:01 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] On Topic - Finest Drops: ABIAC vs. IBTABA versions IBTABA is actually one of my favorite Wire albums. (Bear in mind, though, that I'm one of those listmembers who prefers 80's Wire to 70's Wire. (^_^)) I really like the version of German Shepards, too. That bass riff/sound is one of the best things I've ever heard. Cheers, Paul /////// in a recent colin interview he seemed to hate the production on all the 80's albums except IBTABA. as others have said , i think often the version you hear first sticks as the "definitive" one unless something major changes. a real favourite of mine is the re-recorded "come back in 2 halves". on the a-list poll i see it polled nil points so i fear i may be alone here.p ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 09:43:14 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Off topic - embarrasing records/gigs >5. Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms 7" (cos it was ex >juke box (it won't do will it? There is no excuse for >this one. Does it help that I threw it away a couple >of months later? I thought not - I'll get me coat.)) > >John Oh don't bother to get yer coat, at least not until you tell me if my bum looks big in this - after all, you didn't buy the soundtrack to The Godfather I haven't got a clue what that was about - I was young, that's the best I can do Laurel ////// i often pick up cheap records on the off-chance so i've bought a mountain of crap over the years. one i hang my head at is the sultans of ping fc "where's me jumper" , i just don't know what got into me that day. what a crap act. i used to have a job at the (recently bulldozed) dunstable queensway hall as a steward , all they booked (80/81) was NWOBHM acts (don't ask) so i saw 'em all ; saxon , def leppard , girlschool , iron maiden. worst by far was krokus , who gave it the full root vegetables/leather trousers/flying v guitars/drum solo routine. so bad it was pretty hilarious. worst gigs i actually paid for; tin machine (talked into it by a friend0 x-ray spex without poly styrene (karaoke , i lasted 2 songs) sandie shaw (only time i've ever seen somebody lip-synch at a gig , audience was dumbfounded) must be a lot more tragic nights , i'll have a think....... p ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 16:53:43 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] On Topic - Finest Drops: ABIAC vs. IBTABA versions > /////// in a recent colin interview he seemed to hate the > production on all > the 80's albums except IBTABA. as others have said , i think often the > version you hear first sticks as the "definitive" one unless > something major > changes. a real favourite of mine is the re-recorded "come back > in 2 halves". > on the a-list poll i see it polled nil points so i fear i may be > alone here.p > Is there anything on the A-list which is a different version than what's on the original CD's or on Coatings? I like IBTABA as well - I think it still sounds good because the newer versions sound more like remixes than actual re-playing of the songs. For years I thought that this was how Wire really sounded live. I knew there were overdubs but I didn't think they were used so extensively and that some tracks were actually reedited. The In Vivo in the CD version does spoil it, though. I also think (if I remember correctly) that it was the first Wire album that I bought when it was actually released - that was a big excitement for me. I also remember asking my parents to buy it for me from europe somewhere, and then buying it myself at the local record store. Luckily, I didn't tell them that I bought it 'cause the copy they bought had the 4 postcards Wire made for the 1st releases, so I found someone to give my spare copy to. It also had the 1st electronic track that really turned me on, so it's quite a significant album for me... giluz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 16:59:06 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: [idealcopy] Off-Topic: PJ Harvey A friend of mine brought her new CD to work, and I just finished listening to it. Actually, it's not too bad but that's not the problem. The problem is that it's not too good either - just an alright middle of the road (a punk-oriented middle of the road, mind) album. Something like Patti smith. It certainly has nothing to do with the raw anger of Dry, but it is much better than Harvey's previous efforts. Nothing she ever did comes close to a Peel session I once heard, circa 1992, when she just came in the studio, plugged her guitar in and did this incredible version of Rid of Me. Balance between her and the guitar was completely off, but this only made it better. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 10:09:16 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] On Topic - Finest Drops: ABIAC vs. IBTABA versions Is there anything on the A-list which is a different version than what's on the original CD's or on Coatings? /////// i don't think so. i never bought it , i just read the liner notes in a shop where it says what tracks the great and the good voted for. if i saw one cheap i might indulge one day. I like IBTABA as well - I think it still sounds good because the newer versions sound more like remixes than actual re-playing of the songs. For years I thought that this was how Wire really sounded live. I knew there were overdubs but I didn't think they were used so extensively and that some tracks were actually reedited. /////// i think very little of the original live tracks were used. IBTABA has really grown on me whereas ABIAC is one i now play rarely ; if you'd asked me 5 years ago i'd have said it was one of my favourites. Luckily, I didn't tell them that I bought it 'cause the copy they bought had the 4 postcards Wire made for the 1st releases, so I found someone to give my spare copy to. It also had the 1st electronic track that really turned me on, so it's quite a significant album for me... ////// in the uk i think the postcards just got given away with the vinyl lp. i got a set for $1 (hey , big spender) off ebay and they're pretty good. especially the egg one.p ps i got a copy of fad's "make room" (featuring rob g) thru the post yesterday. not really his best. but the good news is that it's autographed on the label by frank tovey and the dealer obviously never noticed , so that was a pretty good buy. must go get those fad albums some day. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 10:24:54 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Off-Topic: PJ Harvey A friend of mine brought her new CD to work, and I just finished listening to it. Actually, it's not too bad but that's not the problem. The problem is that it's not too good either - just an alright middle of the road (a punk-oriented middle of the road, mind) album. Something like Patti smith. ////// blimey gilluz , a lot of people worship patti smith and hold her up as the #1 influential female act of all time , as well as crediting her with some of the best and earliest punk releases. i think "middle of the road" isn't at all fair to her first 3 albums which have influenced so many acts over 25 years or so. ok her "comeback" stuff is a bit lame but there's still something there most acts would kill for. i'm a big polly fan and obviously she's calmed down/matured/mellowed over the years , but re-doing "rid of me" would be pretty pointless (and can you ask anyone to stay at the level of intensity for long?). but i don't think she's boring , just trying different things. the new album doesn't sound fabulous to me on a handful of listens , but still better than most of what'll come out in Y2K It certainly has nothing to do with the raw anger of Dry, but it is much better than Harvey's previous efforts. ///// not so sure , be interesting to see whay impact it makes. Nothing she ever did comes close to a Peel session I once heard, circa 1992, when she just came in the studio, plugged her guitar in and did this incredible version of Rid of Me. Balance between her and the guitar was completely off, but this only made it better. ////// never heard that. the "dry" peel session was brilliant though. p ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 17:36:34 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: FW: [idealcopy] Off-Topic: PJ Harvey - -----Original Message----- From: giluz [mailto:giluz@nettalk.com] Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2000 5:36 PM To: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Off-Topic: PJ Harvey > ////// blimey gilluz , a lot of people worship patti smith and > hold her up as > the #1 influential female act of all time , as well as crediting her with > some of the best and earliest punk releases. i think "middle of the road" > isn't at all fair to her first 3 albums which have influenced so > many acts > over 25 years or so. ok her "comeback" stuff is a bit lame but > there's still > something there most acts would kill for. Sorry, no disrespect intended. I'm one of those people that worship Smith's 1st albums. I meant her recent albums, which aren't really bad, but just don't have that same energy. > > i'm a big polly fan and obviously she's calmed > down/matured/mellowed over the > years , but re-doing "rid of me" would be pretty pointless (and > can you ask > anyone to stay at the level of intensity for long?). but i don't > think she's > boring , just trying different things. the new album doesn't > sound fabulous > to me on a handful of listens , but still better than most of > what'll come > out in Y2K > Right there. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 12:45:55 -0800 (PST) From: Wireviews Subject: [idealcopy] Malka Project From SwimHQ: Dear All, Now that the deadline on my project has passed I want to firstly take the opportunity to again than all the contributors. I am really pleased and excited by the different contributions not only by the differences in approach but also by the amount of thought which obviously went into the work. Over the next week or so I will be attempting to put together something which can be viewed in our online gallery "non-space" (go to swimhq.com and click on the nonspace link) which hopefully will show not only all the contributions assembled but also the individual pieces. My intention is to link in supporting text either from letters included with contributions or subsequent correspondence. I know I've asked some of you about this already but I'd like to ask again in general if anyone has any objection to this or if someone would like to add any comments or related text to go with their contribution (obviously addresses will be withheld). By this I'm not asking for "explanations" just rounding out the ideas. This is not mandatory!! By the way, I know that some of the contributors are not on the IC list but I'd like to ask anyone who knows anyone who contributed to the project who isn't on the list to pass on this message. I also got a submission from a Stephen Sheen from Birmingham, UK with no other details and was not able to thank him personally or have any more text to add on the website. Also please don't hesitate to let me know what you feel about how it turned out once you can see it online. cheers and thanks again Malka ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. Snub.Comms: http://welcome.to/snub Veer Audio: http://listen.to/veer - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 13:09:53 -0800 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Off-Topic: PJ Harvey > Nothing she ever did comes close to a Peel session I once heard, circa 1992, > when she just came in the studio, plugged her guitar in and did this > incredible version of Rid of Me. Balance between her and the guitar was > completely off, but this only made it better. > That's the way the live version of Rid of Me sounded on the Tonight Show with Jay Leno. You know, after all of this talk, I should probably dig that tape up. (It'll take me a few days to find it, though. (^_^)) This was probably when she was doing publicity for the 4-Track Demos release. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 12:47:10 -0800 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] On Topic - Finest Drops: ABIAC vs. IBTABA versions > a real favourite of mine is the re-recorded "come back in 2 halves". > on the a-list poll i see it polled nil points so i fear i may be alone here.p > Nah - you're never "Alone" on the Wire mailing list. (Get it, everyone? Hello - is this thing on? ) But, seriously folks. (^_^) The re-recorded version of "Come Back In Two Halves" is great. (You're talking about the version on the Silk Skin Paws single, right?) It sort of shimmers, as opposed to the "forced drive" of the original. Wire, for me, is one of the few bands who can successfully remake their own material, and find valid things to say in the new versions. (Even The Drill album has its moments (^_^) - the two opening tracks are almost worth the price of admission for me. ) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 13:06:42 -0800 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] On Topic - Finest Drops: ABIAC vs. IBTABA versions > Is there anything on the A-list which is a different version than what's on > the original CD's or on Coatings? > I think Paul was actually referring to a poll on Wireviews to create a new version of the A-list CD, based on the listmembers input. But, to answer your question, yes, there are differences. First of all, everything on Coatings is unreleased on albums (several tracks appeared as singles here and there around the world), so it doesn't count. (^_^) According to the A-list liner notes: The version of Kidney Bingos on the A-List is the 7" edit, The version of "In Vivo" is the 7" edit as well. Eardrum Buzz is the 12" edit, but that was included as bonus tracks on the IBTABA album. (For the record, I don't think there is much difference between the 7" edit of Kidney Bingos and the A Bell Is A Cup.. version). > I like IBTABA as well - I think it still sounds good because the newer > versions sound more like remixes than actual re-playing of the songs. 8< snip >8 > The In Vivo in the CD version does spoil it, > though. Bear in mind that the three end tracks on IBTABA were bonus cuts for CD only, if I remember correctly. They were the original sessions that led to the Eardrum Buzz single produced by Rico Conning. According to "Everybody Loves a History" by Kevin Eden (^_^), (and I'm paraphrasing from memory here) Colin was never very happy with the way In Vivo came out, and took a crack at capturing the original feel, which led to the 7" mix that we all know and love. I'm actually glad that they released the version of In Vivo that's on IBTABA, so that we have a chance as fans to "compare and contrast" the two versions. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 17:20:29 EST From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: [idealcopy] Solo stuff (was Re: On Topic - Finest Drops: ABIAC vs. IBTABA versions) >I have yet to hear any of Dome or solo projects, so can >anyone suggest a good way to start on that side of >their material? Depends on what you'll call "good way". If you want to go for the more representative stuff, start with Dome. If you want more accessible music (which is what I suspect, since you list Manscape and IBTABA as your favorites), start with Colin's first three solo albums (A-Z, Not To and Singing Fish) and He Said. Syarzhuk Be healthy, stay wealthy... Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://www.belmusic.net _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 00:06:00 -0800 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: [idealcopy] A wire thought - live! Hi everyone, One thing about having your own CD burner is that if you want to try to create an album that you always wished existed, you can. So, just for fun, I put together a collection of Wire live cuts from the 80's. The main criteria is that the material had to be live and relatively non-overdubbed (this excludes the IBTABA cuts). Also, the material had to be officially available, not from bootlegs, and in my posession - no Napster for this boy!! (^_^) The sequence is as follows: 1. Ambulance Chasers 2. Feed Me 3. Vivid Riot of Red 4. Over Theirs 5. Drill 6. Eardrum Buzz 7. Ahead 8. Kidney Bingos 9. Finest Drops 10. A Chicago Drill 1, 2 & 3 are from The Ideal Copy CD. 4 & 5 are from the A Bell Is A Cup... CD. 6, 7, & 8 are from the Buzz Buzz Buzz 12". 9 is from the In Vivo CD and 10 is from The Drill CD. The idea behind the sequencing is that the first 5 tracks represent Wire returning to live performance, and the final 5 tracks are Wire further along. I don't know how long I'll be listening to this custom compilation CD (and - - no I won't be making any copies for anyone - so don't ask! (^_^)), but I have to admit, it's going to be on my CD player for a while. Cheers, Paul *********************************************************** Brain: "That's brilliant Pinky!!...and Larry... ...Are You Pondering What I'm Pondering?" Pinky: "I think so Larry...and Brain...but how can we get 7 dwarfs to shave their legs?" Paul Pietromonaco Test Engineer - Reflection X WRQ, Inc. E-Mail: paulp@wrq.com *********************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 11:08:15 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] On Topic - Finest Drops: ABIAC vs. IBTABA versions > Wire, for me, is one of the few bands who can successfully remake > their own > material, and find valid things to say in the new versions. (Even The > Drill album has its moments (^_^) - Am I the only one who thinks Drill is a brilliant album then? giluz ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #335 *******************************