From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #315 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, October 17 2000 Volume 03 : Number 315 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] john coltrane [kevin eden ] [idealcopy] OT - Uncut Magazine [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy] Wire, Funky? ["Ciscon, Ray" ] [idealcopy] Money Spines, Paper Lung [=?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= <] Re: [idealcopy] [OFF TOPIC] What's up with Thom Yorke? ["stephen graziano] [idealcopy] (-: Colin's Dancing ;-) [=?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] john coltrane Graeme Rowland wrote: "Bearing in mind that I like 'Ascension' what other recordings in a similar free-playing vein could you recommend?" How about: LIVING SPACE SUN SHIP FIRST MEDITATIONS OM KULU SE MAMA MEDITATIONS LIVE IN SEATTLE LIVE AT THE VILLAGE VANGUARD AGAIN! LIVE IN JAPAN STELLAR REGIONS INTERSTELLAR SPACE EXPRESSION Then all of Pharaoh Sanders on Impulse, and then the great mid sixties period Sun Ra. Throw in some Miles Davis, Andrew Hill, Thelonious Monk, Eric Dolphy and even Alice Coltrane and you may have the start of a good collection. ===== kevin eden wmo, po box 112, stockport, cheshire, sk3 9fd, uk wmouk@yahoo.com http://wiremailorder.com/ "dreams that money can buy" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 06:51:51 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] OT - Uncut Magazine There is an excellent feature abouut Radiohead's Kid A in the latest issue of Uncut (by, I think, Simon Reynolds) which places the album in the context of a pretty dismal British music scene. The article expresses in very articulate terms the album's status in relation to "experimental" music. One of the best bits of music writing I've read in a while. Also contains a Paul Morley interview with Howard Devoto, which actually makes quite sad reading. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 08:36:04 -0500 From: "Ciscon, Ray" Subject: [idealcopy] Wire, Funky? Mark wrote: << On topic - and I'd be interested in whether any of you share this opinion - I find that a lot of Wire songs have quite a funky backbone to them. 'Lowdown' brings back memories of 'Papa was a rolling stone' and 'I should have known better' can be interpreted as 'Get up off that thang' backwards... >> I don't really see it - Wire is pretty much MOWO! Although the version of Go Ahead they played at the Garage was pretty funky..... MOWO = Music of Wire Origin, of course ;-) =============== In some bands it's very easy to see the funk influences; Gang of Four, early Shriekback, but I just don't see that much funk influence in Wire... I agree with Mark about his MOWO comment... with the exception of the Krautrock influence that I see, Wire are pretty much Wire... Cheers, Ray Ciscon Remote Office LAN/WAN Support Manager Comark, Inc. In order to provide the best level of support, please contact: The I.S. Support Center at extension 4357 ** Every support call should begin with a call to the I. S. Support Center. ** Carthago delenda est. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 15:25:38 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Money Spines, Paper Lung Nik said >>>As bold as they were when it came to experimenting with sounds, they never ventured beyond the well-explored realms of (tongue-in-cheek-) boredom, anger, despair and straightforward telling where the vocals are concerned. So where does 'Kidney Bingos' fit into this critique? And 'Ambitious'? I do think they have attained a touching level of vocal absurdity at times, especially on 'Dome 3' and also with regard to Colin's 'shouty bloke' period. And don't even think of starting me off on 'The Haring'! "Because contradictions will arrive with every step and turn!" Organ fun when it's hot behind the green door! The Fly in the Ointment ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:27:28 EDT From: "stephen graziano" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OFF TOPIC] What's up with Thom Yorke? I saw the Radiohead SNL gig too. I thought they were quite good, especially as it's so hard for a band to get up to speed in only a song's time and project well from a TV soundstage. I caught Tommy boy's Popeye with palsy act, but just attributed it to "intensity", i.e., trying to "get it over" in such a limited time/space span. I think he likes looking "antiglamourous". - - Steve. G. (Kid A is tops btw) >From: "Paul Pietromonaco" >To: >Subject: [idealcopy] [OFF TOPIC] What's up with Thom Yorke? >Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 03:33:06 -0700 > >Hi everyone, > Okay - I have to share this with somebody, and this group may appreciate >this more than anyone else I know. Radiohead just played on Saturday Night >Live tonight. They played two songs from Kid A - The National Anthem and >Idioteque. They acquited themselves with these "difficult" songs quite >well. However, Thom Yorke looked posessed - more so than usual. His arms >flailed, his body jerked - it was downright weird. In fact, the camera >kept cutting from him when he wasn't singing - I think the producers of the >show were afraid of what he was doing. (^_^). > I re-watched a concert I have from the OK Computer era, and he moved a >little oddly - but not like this. Has there been any news about his stage >presence in the shows Radiohead has been doing in the UK? > Actually, I'm sorta concerned for him - this just didn't look right, >somehow. > Cheers, > Paul > > > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 15:28:23 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] (-: Colin's Dancing ;-) >>>the less convincing 'I-can't-dance' routines of Mr. Newman!!!!!!!! I feel I must rush to the defence of Mr Newman here (although I daresay he can handle it himself). Check out the videos of 'Wrong Place Right Time' (the Fall) and 'Why She's a Girl From The Chainstore' (Buzzcocks) for some truly hilariously bad dancing. And some would have it that Manchester is the dance capital of the un-UK? Not if Diggle and Smith are anything to do with it! Hey! Just you try loosenin' up and gettin' up offa your thang with Bruce Gilbert and Robert Grey scowlin' at ya! Maybe Robert could've brightened up the 'Brochure' by doing a juggling turn during Michael Clark's stop motion 'Heartbeat' interlude. I bet Colin dances better to dol-lop or Ronnie & Clyde, but probably not as masterfully as Shaky! Feeling sprightly by degrees! The Fly in the Ointment ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:27:49 -0500 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V3 #312 - ------- > >Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 02:54:50 -0700 (PDT) >From: kevin eden >Anybody who thinks Merzbau or the other noise >merchants are great should maybe go and listen to John >Coltrane or Archie Shepp or Pharaoh Saunders. Then >they'll know what ear bleeding is all about! > >Food for thought. I hope. Yes, but as a large number of people on this list think Bruce Gilbert's solo work is too weird, or not music, or whatever, I doubt this will catch on. I guess some people need to dance or hum along to enjoy. Just an observation, not a complaint, Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 17:08:21 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Rhys Chatham (mit Robert und Bruce) Robert the Wire drummist performed Rhys Chatham's 'Guitar Trio' with Robert Poss, Susan Stenger, Sonic Boom and wotsername from Elasticman at the Purcell Room a few years back. Afterwards Bruce Gilbert buzzed in the foyer. Rhys Chatham's 'Guitar Trio' was composed in 1977, and whether it was an influence or not, there are some similar ideas on the first Wire album on tracks such as 'Reuters' and 'Pink Flag'. Interestingly, the revamped 2000 version of 'Pink Flag' bears a much greater similarity to Rhys' piece. 'Guitar Trio' was written for drums, bass and three guitars all working the same humming open tuned chord for fifteen minutes. The best recorded version of it can be found on Band of Susans' 'The Word and the Flesh' (CD only) and again on the instrumental section of their 'Wired For Sound' compilation. Now, over to Mr Chatham: "Musical freedom, as with political freedom, has been the exception rather than the rule in the history of mankind. After centuries upon centuries of political tyranny of various sorts, the concept of equality and freedom of speech as fundamental human rights remain fragile. One must remember that documents such as the French Declaration des droits de l'homme et du citoyen or the United States' Bill of Rights have only been in existence in Western society for the past few hundred years, since the 18th century period of Enlightenment, or Age of Reason. After generations of vassalage and servitude, these rights are not to be taken for granted. Even today, it is sobering to note that it would be impossible for our music and art to survive under such oppressive governments as now exist in Iran, China, Syria, and more recently in Algeria. We have seen the outrage to Western precepts of free speech and national sovereignty wrought upon the author Salman Rushdie, a British subject, who was forced into hiding when a murderous theocratic government illegally imposed the death sentence upon him for writing a book which they decided offended their religious sensibilities, proving once again that the pen is mightier than the sword. What kind of musical freedom would we enjoy in medieval societies such as these? How easy would it be to make the music we want in countries such as Ethiopia, Cambodia, or Liberia, whose class, tribal, and economic struggles rule out the possibility of working on anything else. It is only in an evolved society that we can begin to position advanced ideas in art on the same level as advanced ideas in technology and science; to have the luxury of putting as much value on the development of aesthetics as on the development of the weapons of war. At the dawn of the nineties, we find ourselves with unprecedented liberty to explore whatever musical direction we wish; we must hasten to take advantage of this because we may very well be in a golden age for development of musical thought, a period not unlike that of the ancient Greece of the classical age. We must immediately avail ourselves of the new intellectual tools provided us; the present golden age, as with the one which occurred in Greece so long ago, may not be again repeated for another two millennia." The rest of this fascinating essay can be read here: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/rhys.chatham/Essay_1970-90.html How many dead or alive? The Fly in the Ointment ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 18:03:47 +0100 From: Nik Subject: Re: [idealcopy] (-: Colin's Dancing ;-) In message <20001016142823.21036.qmail@web3905.mail.yahoo.com>, Graeme Rowland writes >Hey! Just you try loosenin' up and gettin' up offa >your thang with Bruce Gilbert and Robert Grey scowlin' >at ya! Maybe Robert could've brightened up the >'Brochure' by doing a juggling turn during Michael >Clark's stop motion 'Heartbeat' interlude. Right on, right on :-) ROTFL > >I bet Colin dances better to dol-lop or Ronnie & >Clyde, but probably not as masterfully as Shaky! Good man! I hang my head in shame for the inappropriate choice of words. Far be it from me to assume that Mr. Colin can't dance - how would I know? Maybe we can agree on that he tries hard to give that impression at times - for whatever reason ;-) > >Feeling sprightly by degrees! Arise you workers from your slumbers arise you prisoners of want.... Nik da DIMMwit - currently being subjected to sounds by Gurdjieff/de Hartmann by my fellow workers and beginning to like it...whatever that means ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 18:13:22 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] (-: The Paul List :-) The poor list! There are just too many Pauls on it. SORT IT OUT! NOW! My brain has shrunk to the size of an eyeball and my memory is full of Shaky MP3's. So it is hard for me to keep track of all these Pauls. It was the governments fault! It was the fault of the government! I suggest Miles starts another list for all the Pauls to avoid this shocking and terrible confusion, quite unlooked for! It might create more work for him and more bureaucracy for the rest of you to worry about but at least I will benefit! Then I can get on with my grave diggin' & Shakin' Stevens impressions. Business or pleasure, the more that you do it, The Fly in the Ointment [Please note that the contents of this message may not have been entirely serious] ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 14:07:14 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - Uncut Magazine There is an excellent feature abouut Radiohead's Kid A in the latest issue of Uncut (by, I think, Simon Reynolds) which places the album in the context of a pretty dismal British music scene. The article expresses in very articulate terms the album's status in relation to "experimental" music. One of the best bits of music writing I've read in a while. Also contains a Paul Morley interview with Howard Devoto, which actually makes quite sad reading. Mark ///// i was tempted to buy that because the cd has "big bottom" by spinal tap , but i bought the wire to get their freebie instead. what's sad about howie? p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 14:19:25 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] OT ; my name is..... well i was watching tv last night and i laughed out loud at something , can't resist sharing it. there's a lot of discussion in the uk media about how everything is "dumbing down" , but this took the biscuit. i watched the news last night and left the tv running , on came panorama which used to be a really dry current affairs show. last night it was an expose on how gap and nike exploit 3rd world labour (like , you're kidding me). the whole thing was done on about the level of one of those 80's "yoof" shows. this reporter is in cambodia driving around looking for sweatshops and suddenly some background music kicks in ; that limp bizkit mission impossible theme....... limp bizkit on panorama? my , what's the world coming to. whatever next ; paxman and eminem , robin day with slipknot? maybe they could get that fred durst on as a guest. he seems such a sweet guy.p (sorry if the above means little to those outside the uk..................) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 16:26:52 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] inertia i see on pinkflag.com this inertia tour still advertised for about now. i take it that got blown out but nobody deleted the webpage? seemed like a fun lineup too...... p ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #315 *******************************