From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #309 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, October 11 2000 Volume 03 : Number 309 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Cale/Nico stories [Howard Spencer ] Re: totally off-subject [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: Nico [MarkBursa@aol.com] pj harvey [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Off Topic ["Wilson, Paul" ] Re: Cale/Nico stories ["Katherine Pouliot" ] Off Topic ["giluz" ] RE: Off Topic ["Ciscon, Ray" ] Re: Off Topic ["Katherine Pouliot" ] wire, on topic! ["Katherine Pouliot" ] RE: Off Topic ["giluz" ] [none] ["Wilson, Paul" ] Re: Off Topic [MarkBursa@aol.com] Malka's project ["Katherine Pouliot" ] IdealOffTopic ["giluz" ] Topic rant ["Katherine Pouliot" ] Re: Off Topic ["tube disaster" ] Re: [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: Off Topic [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] RE: Off Topic ["giluz" ] ebay latest [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: Off Topic [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: Hannett ["tube disaster" ] Re: ebay latest [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: Off Topic [MarkBursa@aol.com] Kraftwerk were driving [=?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= ] Re: Off Topic and On ["Katherine Pouliot" ] Re: Off Topic and On [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 12:22:35 +0100 From: Howard Spencer Subject: Re: Cale/Nico stories This Cale/Nico talk has stirred some memories - in 1984 or 5 I saw Nico in Brighton, where I was at college. Supported by JCClarke, who at that time was doing a non-stop Jimmy Saville impersonation. The bloke I went with, still a good friend, was approached by Nico after the gig - she recognised him from the shows she'd done in Manchester to which he had also gone. At the time he bore a distinct resemblance to Gerard Malanga (a Warhol star), which I imagine she liked, and she invited him backstage. Where he witnessed all the shenanigans so far alluded to - apparently it was her who got JCC into it. They had a bit of a snog on the beach (my mate and Nico, not JCC) and I think he still regrets not attempting to take matters further... James Young, who was her keyboard player actually got in touch with said mate while he was researching the book, perhaps imagining that he *knew* more than he really did. I could have wangled my way backstage with him but I slipped away, not wanting to be a gooseberry, and being a bit awed by a living legend. Damn, damn damn! I remember the guy who was her manager, heckling JCC in the most unfunny way possible - JCC got the biggest laugh of the night by putting him down. Mate asked her about Cale, and she said (you have to imagine the voice) `Oh he's really faaat nooow, but he hasn't got a faaat miiiiind'. Which brings me on to another story - I know the bloke who drove JC around for his last tour of GB. He slept in the van mostly, behind one of those eye masks airlines give you, which he would occasionally remove to ask where they were. On one occasion they were by a golf course - he ventured (again, you have to imagine the voice) 'we 'ad a concept in the Velvet Underground - playing golf at night with black golf balls'. The mask was snapped back into place and he nodded off immediately. I saw him at the RFH - he looked very fit and sounded good, if a bit jazzy for my liking. Howard ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 07:51:05 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: totally off-subject << +++ Other questions (roughly) - "which band from Manchester (sic) with a sound centred on the organ have a name that indicates that they are the pretenders to special knowledge" and "which group formally named the Jennifers are now named after a slang term for marijuana". The students did get these two right. >> Second one is Supergrass. First one, I'm guesing...Charlatans? Not my definition of a Charlatan though! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 07:54:52 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Nico Bunny, << When did Alan Wise die? I hadn't heard - last time I saw him was introducing Neworder at the Temptation gig, New Year's Eve 98 / 99. He was the regular introducer for NO - always armed with an appropriate mancunian quip. >> Not long ago....early '99 I guess. He'd fallen on hard times in the 90s - living rough etc - and there was a beneit gig for him a couple of years ago. Good bloke actually. Typical Manc hard case (like the also recently deceased Rob Gretton).... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 08:54:12 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: pj harvey somebody on here commented that they'd heard the pj/thom yorke duet. where was it played? mtv showed the new pj single vid last night , looked pretty good. much more upbeat than the last album. looking forward to the tour.p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 15:19:07 +0100 From: "Wilson, Paul" Subject: Off Topic Maybe this mail list should be renamed "Off Topic!". So, what do I do, write a list of names out. OK - The Residents, David Essex, Geordie, Capital Letters. Right - that done, does that mean we'll all discuss these people for a few weeks? Perhaps the list needs splitting into two - one for Wire stuff and another for "Off Topic" stuff? Stupid idea? I don't think so! I am seriously considering removing myself from the list - the only thing that has kept me on it is that I only receive the digest version - but now, even that is getting to be a pain! THIS IS SERIOUS. SORT IT OUT, OR CLOSE THE BLOODY LIST. Paul KW. For all things Residential http://www.theresidents.co.uk Home of The Moles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 10:43:13 -0400 From: "Katherine Pouliot" Subject: Re: Cale/Nico stories Great stories! k ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 16:56:44 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: Off Topic Paul Wilson wrote: > > > Maybe this mail list should be renamed "Off Topic!". > > So, what do I do, write a list of names out. OK - The Residents, David > Essex, Geordie, Capital Letters. Right - that done, does that > mean we'll all > discuss these people for a few weeks? > > Perhaps the list needs splitting into two - one for Wire stuff and another > for "Off Topic" stuff? Stupid idea? I don't think so! I am seriously > considering removing myself from the list - the only thing that > has kept me > on it is that I only receive the digest version - but now, even that is > getting to be a pain! > > THIS IS SERIOUS. > > SORT IT OUT, OR CLOSE THE BLOODY LIST. > > Paul KW. I know some people don't like that, but I find off topic mails to be quite interesting. I think the list would have disbanded by itself months ago if we'd only discussed Wire related stuff, especially that in the past 2-3 months there wasn't much new to talk about wire-wise. That's the whole point of these mailing lists, for me at least. Besides, if we only talked about Wire, it'd probably be something like one message in a month or two, and the whole point of having a mailing list instead of just corresponding between ourselves will be lost. Off-topic subjects in this list made me discover new music or changed my mind about music I'd known. I don't know about you, but where I come from there aren't a lot of people whose tastes in music correspond to mine (not that there are lots of people like that on the list, but at list their tastes are far more interesting and diverse than other people's). On the other hand, I wanted to write about it for more than a month and forgot: Has anyone been to the Immersion gig in NY with that bloke from Orb? What was it like? Sometimes, when there finally is wire-related stuff to discuss, no-one mentions it... giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 10:16:04 -0500 From: "Ciscon, Ray" Subject: RE: Off Topic Giluz wrote: Paul Wilson wrote: > getting to be a pain! > > THIS IS SERIOUS. > > SORT IT OUT, OR CLOSE THE BLOODY LIST. > > Paul KW. I know some people don't like that, but I find off topic mails to be quite interesting. I think the list would have disbanded by itself months ago if we'd only discussed Wire related stuff, especially that in the past 2-3 months there wasn't much new to talk about wire-wise. That's the whole point of these mailing lists, for me at least. Besides, if we only talked about Wire, it'd probably be something like one message in a month or two, and the whole point of having a mailing list instead of just corresponding between ourselves will be lost. Off-topic subjects in this list made me discover new music or changed my mind about music I'd known. I don't know about you, but where I come from there aren't a lot of people whose tastes in music correspond to mine (not that there are lots of people like that on the list, but at list their tastes are far more interesting and diverse than other people's). On the other hand, I wanted to write about it for more than a month and forgot: Has anyone been to the Immersion gig in NY with that bloke from Orb? What was it like? Sometimes, when there finally is wire-related stuff to discuss, no-one mentions it... giluz ========== Ditto's giluz!!! I have to agree with him 150%. If this list were limited to WIRE only, there'd be almost zero traffic. Because radio in Chicago is so god-awful, my sources for new music has been limited. I've been lucky enough to learn about so many old, new and different artists from the people on this list that I wouldn't have found out about from any other source. I really love the stories about peoples favorite bands from the past, some Wire related - some not, the only thing I wish I could change is the rampant use of contractions for band names... some of us are not intimately familiar with these bands, and the contractions get confusing. I think you'll find that when new Wire news comes around, we talk the hell out of it! We're in a Wire lull right now, so we're gabbing about other crap. Anybody contribute anything to Malka's project? I've got an idea, but finding the time to put it together is my problem... Cheers, Ray ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:15:04 -0400 From: "Katherine Pouliot" Subject: Re: Off Topic my my my... - ----- Original Message ----- From: Wilson, Paul To: 'Idealcopy Submissions' Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 10:19 AM Subject: Off Topic > Maybe this mail list should be renamed "Off Topic!". > > So, what do I do, write a list of names out. OK - The Residents, David > Essex, Geordie, Capital Letters. Right - that done, does that mean we'll all > discuss these people for a few weeks? > > Perhaps the list needs splitting into two - one for Wire stuff and another > for "Off Topic" stuff? Stupid idea? I don't think so! I am seriously > considering removing myself from the list - the only thing that has kept me > on it is that I only receive the digest version - but now, even that is > getting to be a pain! > > THIS IS SERIOUS. > > SORT IT OUT, OR CLOSE THE BLOODY LIST. > > Paul KW. > > For all things Residential > http://www.theresidents.co.uk > Home of The Moles > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:18:52 -0400 From: "Katherine Pouliot" Subject: wire, on topic! On the other hand, I wanted to write about it for more than a month and forgot: Has anyone been to the Immersion gig in NY with that bloke from Orb? What was it like? Sometimes, when there finally is wire-related stuff to discuss, no-one mentions it... giluz I hear you Giluz, I depend on hearing from other people how the latest gigs are/were. I couldn't get to NY to any shows and it would be nice to hear more... But, I was really busy for a bit, too, and may have missed people's postings about it, if they did discuss it. katherine ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 17:22:23 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: Off Topic > Anybody contribute anything to Malka's project? I've got an idea, but > finding the time to put it together is my problem... > Thanks, Ray I've got lots of ideas, but couldn't think of any way to express them other than words. I gave it lots of thought, but still couldn't find anything. The RFH gig was quite significant to me, personally, because it coincided and contributed to lots of personal changes I'm going through right now. But I still couldn't find the right way to represent it. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 16:38:50 +0100 From: "Wilson, Paul" Subject: [none] Ha, to illustrate a point - what is Malka's project. I have obviously missed this due to the habit I've developed of only reading the first couple of lines of people's mails - just to find the ones that might have anything to do with Wire!!! As to people prattling on about a band they saw ten years ago - who really gives a fuck! Maybe the list would slow down if it was limited to "on-topics", so what? Is it so important that we get an enormous email every day? If you're all so interested about reading about other peoples lives and other off-topic crap, then I'll have all my other emails from all the other lists I get stuff from, forwarded to Idealcopy!!!! If you all want to just chat - why not set up another bloody list! Or join a chat list! It wouldn't be so bad if, as soon as an off-topic subject came up, people emailed each other, instead of the whole list. And the thing that makes it even worse is when the original message is included in the subsequent ones! Pages and pages of text, and nothing worth reading! Enough! Paul KW ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:40:33 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Off Topic I can't add much more to Giluz and Ray's comments. This list is essential - it's a great way of discovering new music and rediscovering old stuff I haven't listened to for ages, and all with good humour and genuine enthusiasm. If a mesage has no relevance, click delete. Takes less than a second. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:47:32 -0400 From: "Katherine Pouliot" Subject: Malka's project Good to hear others' processes with that project. I side with Giluz, in that ideas pop up but hard for me to represent them in any other form than words... hmmm... I guess I'm visually challenged! I think that I will definitely send something, just to contribute. If it comes out weird, or is misunderstood, then perhaps it'll be even better?? hahaha katherine - ----- Original Message ----- From: giluz To: IdealCopy ; Ciscon, Ray Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 11:22 AM Subject: RE: Off Topic > > Anybody contribute anything to Malka's project? I've got an idea, but > > finding the time to put it together is my problem... > > > > Thanks, Ray > > I've got lots of ideas, but couldn't think of any way to express them other > than words. I gave it lots of thought, but still couldn't find anything. The > RFH gig was quite significant to me, personally, because it coincided and > contributed to lots of personal changes I'm going through right now. But I > still couldn't find the right way to represent it. > > giluz > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 18:02:28 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: IdealOffTopic > Ha, to illustrate a point - what is Malka's project. I have > obviously missed > this due to the habit I've developed of only reading the first couple of > lines of people's mails - just to find the ones that might have > anything to > do with Wire!!! Malka's project is wire-related. Maybe you missed out other wire-related mails because you only read the 1st few lines, so how can you say there's so much off-topic messages when you don't even bother to read them? I'm subscribed to another mailing list, whose messages tend to be even longer and more off-topic than Wire's. People tend to include in their messages all of the previous messages they were referring to. I read it in digest form, and have to agree with you that it is quite annoying. But it doesn't bother me that much, 'cause I like the people and their attitude, I read what I like and browse quickly through messages that don't interest me. Even if It did seriously get on my nerves, I wouldn't make such a fuss about it. Most subscribers to the list either enjoy it or don't care - otherwise they would have complained. Does anyone else here agree with Paul? ps., as for Malka's project, I'm enclosing the original message, dated 29/07/00: > I am making a piece of work relating to >contemporary "tribalism". By > this I mean very specific special interest > groups of the kind > characterised by something like a single topic > subscription list. People > who are very diverse in age and cultural > affiliation, scattered across > the globe who nonetheless have this one thing in > common. In order to > explore the different ways these diverse groups > relate to the same > thing I would like to try something with the Ideal > Copy List. > > I would like Ideal Copy List subscribers > to send to me an item which > somehow conveys visually their > relationship with or how they see wire. > It can be as absurd or as abstract as you like but > not bigger than 25 cm > X 25 cm (the size of a CD insert) if flat or of > similar dimensions if > 3D. It can be any shape and can be > much smaller in fact. > > The item can be sent to me c/o swim - > PO Box 3459, LONDON SW19 6ES. > > As a musician and a visual artist I find the way > that people relate to > those art-forms to be incredibly different. Music is > very abstract, > visual arts very conceptualised. > Perhaps the music can stand up better > without the words? The work I produce > from the items you send will be > part of an ongoing series around these themes. > Hopefully I will be able > to present some of this work in a format > you all can see. > > MALKA SPIGEL - LONDON - JULY 2000 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 12:34:08 -0400 From: "Katherine Pouliot" Subject: Topic rant Paul, sorry that you feel the way you do, and I understand to a point. You joined the Wire list, and want to talk about (or maybe just hear about) Wire. That is understandable. Perhaps it would be best for you to just bookmark the Wire web sites and go to read the digests, instead of being on this list and having so many e-mails to deal with, which you obviously disagree with and dislike. You'd save yourself having to complain so much and us having to hear it. thanks, katherine ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 12:40:56 -0500 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Off Topic >> So, what do I do, write a list of names out. OK - The Residents, David >> Essex, Speaking of whom, last night it actually crossed my mind after work to delay for a couple of minutes going up to my girlfriend's apartment, because Rock On had just begun on the "classic rock" station. Oh, I guess that didn't help matters much, did it? Damn. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 13:50:38 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: Ha, to illustrate a point - what is Malka's project. I have obviously missed this due to the habit I've developed of only reading the first couple of lines of people's mails - just to find the ones that might have anything to do with Wire!!! As to people prattling on about a band they saw ten years ago - who really gives a fuck! /////// yeah , nostalgia sure sucks. er , wasn't it you turned up to the garage in a spizzoil t-shirt? Maybe the list would slow down if it was limited to "on-topics", so what? Is it so important that we get an enormous email every day? If you're all so interested about reading about other peoples lives and other off-topic crap, then I'll have all my other emails from all the other lists I get stuff from, forwarded to Idealcopy!!!! ////// well if you're on the digest that's one mail per day. is it so much to scan thru? and , er , from your address aren't you doing this in works time anyway? personally i find this list a good thing to do when someone is paying me to be doing something else. but that's just me..... If you all want to just chat - why not set up another bloody list! Or join a chat list! It wouldn't be so bad if, as soon as an off-topic subject came up, people emailed each other, instead of the whole list. And the thing that makes it even worse is when the original message is included in the subsequent ones! Pages and pages of text, and nothing worth reading! ///// well the off-topic mails take 2 forms. talk about the kind of bands a lot of people here would presumably like or might like ; recently magazine/moby/cale etc. sorry but i find that really interesting , a lot of people here have a lot of info to share. i mean , as fans of a band who aren't particularly productive at present , aren't some pointers at other possibilities maybe a bit useful? and then there's the silly stuff , well sorry if everyone doesn't share the same sense of humour but a lot of it has made me laugh at least. c'mon , lighten up. is it so bad? p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 13:53:58 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: Off Topic I've got lots of ideas, but couldn't think of any way to express them other than words. I gave it lots of thought, but still couldn't find anything. The RFH gig was quite significant to me, personally, because it coincided and contributed to lots of personal changes I'm going through right now. But I still couldn't find the right way to represent it. giluz ///// coward ! my thing sure isn't going to get damien hurst worried but i was determined to send something. the original plan was to do a sculpture in lard but it was a bit hard to send thru the post.p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 20:01:42 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: Off Topic > ///// coward ! my thing sure isn't going to get damien hurst > worried but i > was determined to send something. the original plan was to do a > sculpture in > lard but it was a bit hard to send thru the post.p You got me there!!! Now I'll be forced to think of something just so I won't lose my macho image. Actually I do feel obliged to send anything, just because I like Malka so much... giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:01:47 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: ebay latest well i see abovo got that midnight bahnhof cafe , hard luck mark. sad to see the copy of the des simmons lp up for $5 didn't get a single bid , thought somebody might have had a go for that money. looks like the bottom could be dropping out of the desmond market maybe? pre-wmo i actually paid about a tenner for both that and the michael o'shea lp on the principle that i wouldn't get to hear them otherwise , must say "penguin island" never did much for me. p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:03:58 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: Off Topic > ///// coward ! my thing sure isn't going to get damien hurst > worried but i > was determined to send something. the original plan was to do a > sculpture in > lard but it was a bit hard to send thru the post.p You got me there!!! Now I'll be forced to think of something just so I won't lose my macho image. Actually I do feel obliged to send anything, just because I like Malka so much... giluz ////// seriously , i like a challenge and i did think it was a nice idea. wonder how many she's got? p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 13:02:32 -0500 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Hannett >i'm a big factory records fan, so perhaps i'm a bit biased when it comes to >mr hannett's work. section 25's always now is brilliant. Veering off-topic again ... yeah, it is. Was listening to that CD just a couple of nights ago (bought it for the bonus tracks, only about half of which i had .. picked up the sumptuously packaged LP itself back in the early '80s) -- holds up much better than I really would've thought at the time. Great music for going to sleep to, & no, I'm *not* saying it's boring by any means. Speaking of old Factory stuff, dunno if I missed someone else's mention of it, but James Nice, the guy who brought out the Always Now CD & various other Section 25s, recent Names discography disc, much-loved (by me, at least) Tunnelvision disc, etc., is on the verge of releasing a 4th Crispy Ambulance disc, compiling rare & unreleased stuff &, thank god, the Unsightly & Serene 10", which I can finally stop trolling eBay for ... I dubbed that on a normal-bias tape nearly 20 years ago & think it's exceptional (though my favorite CA song may well be From the Cradle to the Grave, from the first 7"). Dan i've always been >interested to hear some of his non-factory work that i'm unfamiliar with. > >-other 36 yr old paul > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:32:38 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: ebay latest Paul, << well i see abovo got that midnight bahnhof cafe , hard luck mark. << Abovo turned out to be Robert Cambra on the list, and as he bid first I dropped out. I have the gig on tape, and I'm sure another one will come up. >>sad to see the copy of the des simmons lp up for $5 didn't get a single bid , thought somebody might have had a go for that money. looks like the bottom could be dropping out of the desmond market maybe? pre-wmo i actually paid about a tenner for both that and the michael o'shea lp on the principle that i wouldn't get to hear them otherwise , must say "penguin island" never did much for me. p >> I actually bought it when it came out! A couple of good tracks - the ones he did live with CN in '81. Must give it a spin again. O'Shea is surprisingly good! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:34:07 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Off Topic Well I have the concept for something, but I just need the time, and some refernce material (which happens to be 250 miles away!) Mark << > ///// coward ! my thing sure isn't going to get damien hurst > worried but i > was determined to send something. the original plan was to do a > sculpture in > lard but it was a bit hard to send thru the post.p You got me there!!! Now I'll be forced to think of something just so I won't lose my macho image. Actually I do feel obliged to send anything, just because I like Malka so much... >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 19:41:01 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: Kraftwerk were driving Paul RabJohn said ////// hmmm , my memory is that about ten seconds after numan hit paydirt with are friends electric , john foxx put out his underpass/noones driving type stuff sounding incredibly similar. and also ultravox reformed. and so did kraftwerk. all totally coincidental i'm sure. I don't think either of them split up. Kraftwerk certainly didn't! The reason for the long gap (3 yrs) between 'The Man Machine' and 'Computer World' was that they were redesigning their studio Kling Klang into a form that could be set up anywhere so that all their live broadcasts were beamed directly from Kling Klang. Kraftwerk were influences upon Numan and Foxx (and Wire and a few other post punkers and all the early eighties synth groups, hip hop and techno and house). I doubt very much if Gary Numan had much influence on Kraftwerk! Advances in technology did and, later, techno and house. They were innovators. Once they began to worry about keeping ahead of the zeitgeist (basically during the recording of 'Technicolor' which got totally reworked as 'Techno Pop' then finally released as 'Electric Cafe' 5 years after CW) did they begin to flounder. After 'Computer World' the world caught up and 'The Model' (on the flipside of a CW single) got played in clubs and made it to UK number 1 in early 82. A paradigm shift finally occurred, and they'd anticipated it back in 74 w/'Autobahn' and (for me) their masterpiece 'Radioactivity'. If one wants to look at things in such terms, I don't think it would be going too far to say that Kraftwerk were the most influential band to emerge since the Beatles. Certainly more important than Gary Numan!!!!!!!!! Of course, only Shaky can be viewed as more important to the musical landscape of the 1980's! Grease up yer quiffs! As for Ultravox! I like 'Hiroshima Mon Amour' a lot more than anything by D. Bowie or Roxy Music! 'Slow Motion', 'All Stood Still', 'The Thin Wall' (great video too) and 'White China' were OK too but I wouldn't recommend anyone to actually bother to seek 'em out. The early singles were hilarious! The abysmal punk pastiche 'Young Savage' and then the glam wreck 'Rockwrock' - but surely Midge Ure was the bigger chancer - from teeny glamsters Slik to Matlocks dull new wavers Rich Kids to Neu Romantische Ultravox, who lost their Neu! homage exclamation mark when Foxx walked out. Did the violin have anything to do with that? "Oi can't yer use a flute like Florian?" Foxx recorded with Conny Plank, who worked on the early Kraftwerk records, perhaps unaware that Plank wasn't all that keen on Kraftwerk's increasing interest in synthesisers which began to dominate on their third album 'Ralf and Florian' and flowered on the following 'Autobahn'. So anyway Foxx was more likely following Kraftwerk than Gary Numan. Once whilst DJing I segued the pompous proggy violin intro to Ultravox' 'The Wild, The Beautiful and the Damned' into 'Anarchy in the UK' which I thought worked quite well. Add N To X and Do Make Say Think also utilise 2 drummers (each) to good effect. Can I get 'cute' now and recommend some CD's? This week I got Pierre Henry - La Ville Die Stadt (Wergo 1984) A magnificent collage of everyday sounds recorded in a town. Best thing I've yet heard from the maestro! Glorious! Oval - Ovalprocess (Thrill Jockey 2000) Best work yet from Cd skipping noise sculptor Markus Popp - added melodic elements actually improve without descending into the tweeness that sometimes mars Mouse on Mars. Imagine 'In Esse' minus abrasion perhaps. Got slagged in the Wire, as did Godspeed and Gilbertpossstenger, whilst they praised Lou Reed's recent 'Travesty' and Iggy Pop's pathetic hasbeen crud - surely one Mojo is enough? Asmus Tietchens -Drei Teilmengen (Ritornell 1999) Finely crafted high pitched dronescapes from this longtime stalwart of experimental soundscaping. Kimmo Pohjonen - Kielo (Rockadillo 2000) The first track off this precedes 'Pink Flag' on the Wire Tapper 5 compilation. Got this after the Finnish accordianists Manchester performance at the Green Room on Monday night. KP makes vocal noises into a radio mic, and feeds that and his highly idiosyncratic accordian playing thru 5-6 effects pedals creating loops and accompanying himself. It was one of those great experiences, like Faust and Evan Parker, where rational thought shut down and everything became focused on pure experience. The Cd only paints a portion of the picture - you really need to see the expressions he pulls and the way he leaps up and staggers about as if possessed - an otherworldly experience! There's an ole piana an very hot it play! Mr Too True Magoo ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:53:29 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Hannett Dan, << Veering off-topic again ... yeah, it is. Was listening to that CD just a couple of nights ago (bought it for the bonus tracks, only about half of which i had .. picked up the sumptuously packaged LP itself back in the early '80s) -- holds up much better than I really would've thought at the time. Great music for going to sleep to, & no, I'm *not* saying it's boring by any means.<< Honestly, it would have been better without Hannett. I have live tapes of those songs that annihilate the album versions. So much more space , with brilliant improvised guitar.... >> Speaking of old Factory stuff, dunno if I missed someone else's mention of it, but James Nice, the guy who brought out the Always Now CD & various other Section 25s, recent Names discography disc, much-loved (by me, at least) Tunnelvision disc, etc.,<< Found the tpe of the Heaven gig the other day - with unreleased stuff, not on th album, if you're interested... >> is on the verge of releasing a 4th Crispy Ambulance disc, compiling rare & unreleased stuff &, thank god, the Unsightly & Serene 10", which I can finally stop trolling eBay for ... I dubbed that on a normal-bias tape nearly 20 years ago & think it's exceptional (though my favorite CA song may well be From the Cradle to the Grave, from the first 7"). >> It looks good - it's basically the Unsightly & Serene 10in, plus the Peel session and the Piccadilly Radio session (which contains earlier versions of Concorde Square and The Presence) as well as some 82-vintage live stuff. Sadly there are no studio recordings of the early-81 stuff they were playing live, which is absolutely stunning and remains unreleased. I sent James Nice some decent live recordings, but he's a bit of a sound quality freak....only likes mixing desk/radio stuff. Maybe they'll play another gig to promote the new album. I'm still well pissed off about missing the reunion last year..... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:37:05 -0500 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: tunnel section amublance (was:Hannett) ><< Veering off-topic again ... yeah, it is. Was listening to that CD just a > couple of nights ago (bought it for the bonus tracks, only about half of > which i had .. picked up the sumptuously packaged LP itself back in the > early '80s) -- holds up much better than I really would've thought at the > time. Great music for going to sleep to, & no, I'm *not* saying it's boring > by any means.<< > >Honestly, it would have been better without Hannett. I have live tapes of >those songs that annihilate the album versions. So much more space , with >brilliant improvised guitar.... > >>> Speaking of old Factory stuff, dunno if I missed someone else's mention of > it, but James Nice, the guy who brought out the Always Now CD & various > other Section 25s, recent Names discography disc, much-loved (by me, at > least) Tunnelvision disc, etc.,<< > >Found the tpe of the Heaven gig the other day - with unreleased stuff, not on >th album, if you're interested... Very much so (ditto for the above-mentioned Section 25 live, for that matter). In return, I seem to own virtually all of the Screamers' surviving oeuvre. Dan > >>> is on the verge of releasing a 4th Crispy > Ambulance disc, compiling rare & unreleased stuff &, thank god, the > Unsightly & Serene 10", which I can finally stop trolling eBay for ... I > dubbed that on a normal-bias tape nearly 20 years ago & think it's > exceptional (though my favorite CA song may well be From the Cradle to the > Grave, from the first 7"). > >> > >It looks good - it's basically the Unsightly & Serene 10in, plus the Peel >session and the Piccadilly Radio session (which contains earlier versions of >Concorde Square and The Presence) as well as some 82-vintage live stuff. >Sadly there are no studio recordings of the early-81 stuff they were playing >live, which is absolutely stunning and remains unreleased. I sent James Nice >some decent live recordings, but he's a bit of a sound quality freak....only >likes mixing desk/radio stuff. Maybe they'll play another gig to promote the >new album. I'm still well pissed off about missing the reunion last year..... > >Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 16:22:25 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Off Topic and On In a message dated 10/11/0 10:38:18 AM, P.Wilson@bury.gov.uk writes: >Perhaps the list needs splitting into two - one for Wire stuff and another > >for "Off Topic" stuff? this was done for another list i am on, and it works fine. i think it would just require creating a new list called "idealcopy-OT" or something like that. the other list that did this had everyone subscribed to the OT list at startup, then anyone who wanted to be removed from the OT list only, requested that. seems reasonable to me. - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 21:24:13 +0100 From: "Andrew Lumbard" Subject: RE: fall/Ultrafoxx Dan << Oh, hardly. Perhaps it's just my errant AFOS/Cars/ELO chromosome at work, but I regard Ultravox's first LP as something of a masterpiece, & if memory serves downright groundbreaking at the time in marrying glam (the Eno influence, perhaps), keyboards (much more prominent than on the Stranglers' early stuff) & punk's artier side. (Though, yes, I winced at that couplet you quote when I was compiling a Foxx-era Ultravox tape for a friend a couple of weeks ago ... wound up skipping that one, but virtually everything else on the LP is a keeper.) Ha Ha Ha doesn't hang together nearly as well, though its final track, Hiroshima Mon Amour, is *colossal*. Systems of Romance continues to make no impression on me at all ... I actually came away with more from the first Midge Ure-era LP, Vienna, which is sort of frightening. >> I'm with you on those albums, though I haven't heard them for years. I think I have tapes of all three. Not masterpieces, but pretty good - like a more pretentious Magazine in some ways. Preferred the second one to the first, and like you, was underwhelmed by Systems of Romance. Hiroshima is definitely the standout. The Man who dies evey day also sticks in the mind... Didn't care much for Midge-era. Saw them live, too. Disappointing - Midge despertaley trying to get back into the charts (having been there with Slik but blown it with his best band, the Rich Kids). Mark Yep, count me in on this, on one of my rare visits to the list. Hiroshima usually creeps into my all-time top ten. Absolutely blinding, in fact I may have to take the Foo Fighters off and play it now. The other stand out track for me is Dangerous Rhythm. I first saw Ultravox supporting Curved Air in '78 ish - strange mix - I suppose violins being the common denominator! AndyL ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 16:56:10 -0400 From: "Katherine Pouliot" Subject: Re: Off Topic and On I don't think there was anyone else who was as hyped about the off-topic posts, besides PW, and he may be off the list by now... I suppose now is the chance for anyone else to speak up about it... katherine - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 4:22 PM Subject: Off Topic and On > > In a message dated 10/11/0 10:38:18 AM, P.Wilson@bury.gov.uk writes: > > >Perhaps the list needs splitting into two - one for Wire stuff and another > > > >for "Off Topic" stuff? > > this was done for another list i am on, and it works fine. i think it would > just require creating a new list called "idealcopy-OT" or something like > that. the other list that did this had everyone subscribed to the OT list at > startup, then anyone who wanted to be removed from the OT list only, > requested that. > > seems reasonable to me. > > -paul c.d. > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 17:14:00 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: Off Topic and On In a message dated 10/11/0 4:54:51 PM, kep99@hotmail.com writes: >I don't think there was anyone else who was as hyped about the off-topic > >posts, besides PW, and he may be off the list by now... I suppose now is >the > >chance for anyone else to speak up about it... the OT stuff can get pretty tiring when you're not interested in the topic that is off. paul k.w. may be lettin off a lot of steam, but his point is valid. two lists really may be the best thing for all. the mail will just arrive as "idealcopy" or "idealcopy-OT" which brings up another point...our mail doesn't currently arrive with the title "idealcopy" in the subject line as my other lists do. this is the only one i'm on like that. that would have to be worked out by miles. miles, any thoughts on this? - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #309 *******************************