From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #305 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Monday, October 9 2000 Volume 03 : Number 305 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: On Topic: Magazine and Wire ["Stephen JC Sheen" ] Sparrow Fart [=?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= ] Achim Reichel? ["wiremailorder.com" ] Re: Moby = Dick [Tim Robinson ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 10:48:49 +0100 From: "Stephen JC Sheen" Subject: Re: On Topic: Magazine and Wire IMO the Wire/Magazine contrast is fairly easily explained. Can I reminisce ? Despite accounting for only 20% of the personnel, I recall Magazine being regarded at the time as a Buzzcocks splinter band. I remember the excitement of expectation in the "punk" corner of our art O Level class when "Shot by Both Sides" was cued up for the first time on Radio 1. Thus Magazine had a ready-made "compare and contrast" that exaggerated the extent to which their music was not to be found in the next house down the street from Spiral Scratch. Or rather, as Paul Morley suggests in this month's Uncut, whilst the Buzzcocks were in the kitchen, Magazine were upstairs in the well-decorated bedroom, spending a few sleepless nights. But also reading books. If there's one thing that Magazine's songs convey it is the fact that Devoto has been reading books, and better books than the ones you are reading. Magazine always carried themselves with an air of superiority, very attractive to critics hunting for easy targets. Historians head for the session version of "Boredom" on "Maybe It's Right to be Nervous Now" as evidence that Devoto found this amusing - knowing vocals, ELP organ riffs and Osmonds synth solo included. Meanwhile, no-one had expectations for Wire except for those the group generated themselves. And for every person who had been affected by an arty LP track, there were three more who had tapped their toes to absurdist comedy singles such as "Dot Dash" and "I am the Fly". Wire did a very good job of deflating their own pretensions, such that there was hardly a moment on any of the records where you didn't suspect that at least one member had their tongue in cheek. I have always found Wire funny, but suspicious that Magazine were laughing rather more than their listeners. And a lot happened in the six months between "Secondhand Daylight" and "154" - the explosion of Two Tone deposed punk/new wave as the predominant obsession, leaving punk to the UK Subs, 999 and the Angelic Upstarts, and Joy Division had emerged with "Unknown Pleasures" as the first great post-punk group. And somebody came to power preaching inter-generational hatred, encouraging a new solidarity within generations. And other pseudo-sociological claims. Are there any listers who were introduced to music by the Specials/Madness/Beat and did you feel the need to hate Pink Floyd that those two years older regarded as a duty ? As for pretentious groups from the class of 77/78 ... Ultravox, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Monochrome Set, Scritti Politti, Punilux ... - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 8:46 PM Subject: Re: Off Topic: Magazine > ///////absolutely ; i'm listening to it as i write this ("vigilance" , to be > precise). bit of an odd choice of tracks maybe , but great nonetheless. > relating to the prog discussions , i think magazine were the act who maybe > sufferred more than anybody from those accusations. at the time i recall > "secondhand daylight" being considered very ideologically suspect , way too > many keyboards and not punky enough at all. seems a daft thing to say now , > but that was a widely held view then. virgin threw a pile of money at them > and failed to get anywhere. despite the obvious artiness of 154 i never > recall wire getting the flak howie did , maybe wire just never seemed to be > trying so hard? > > but of the class of 77/78 i can't recall too many acts i'd describe as > "pretentious". who did you have in mind charles? p > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 20:50:46 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: Sparrow Fart Lifted from the news page of the Speedranch^Jansky Noise website: >>near future Jun00 (maybe) delayed due to legal wrangles - its back on again:: Hawkwind remixed. 'Bass Ritual - The Original Masters of the Universe remixed'. S^J remix 'brainstorm' also features Plotkin, 2nd Gen, Stock,Hausen & Walkman, Colin Newman, Scalpel, Future Loop Foundation vs Michael Dog, John Avery, Flex 13 and Hawkwind themselves. on Liquid Records tel +44(0)114 281 2128<< Pay their site a visit and download the loudest MP3's on the net - blast that early seventies reminisensce fromn yer lugs matey yeah! http://www.sp-jn.co.uk If you look hard enough you will find plenty of good music from the early 70's 'pre-punk' era- Sun Ra, Miles Davies, Can, Faust, Neu!, Kraftwerk, Cluster, Neil Young, Bernard Parmegiani, Pierre Henry, Iggy and the Stooges, Captain Beefheart, Guru Guru, Pere Ubu, the Residents, Jonathan Richman, Patti Smith, Karlheinz Stockhausen, John Cage... just a few who spring to mind - and lets not forget 'Metal Machine Music' even if it has been surpassed about a million times since. Like Sparrow Fart :-) I always thought Led Zepellin should've called themselves Goldilocks and the Three Bears. One of my hobbies at school was to annoy overly serious metallers by singing 'Cheggars plays pop' over the riff of 'Whole Lotta Love.' Suits off! Bananas down pants! Not even 'The Laughing Gnome' could redeem D. Bowie. Poor old Ziggy Piggy never could decide if he wanted to be Lou Reed, Iggy Pop or Kraftwerk. By the time he hit No. 1 w/'Ashes to Ashes Donk to Donkey' he'd finally settled on Ronld McDonald as the perfect image for his bloated ego. While BEno was 'inventing' ambient, did he perhaps hear Cluster, Kraftwerk and Tangerine Dream? After reading Cale's book my opinion of this pompous character is lowered still further. Hey Tim, when you cast Moby into the pit can you dig a bit of space for all the glam rockers too? The only Wire song with a faint trace of glam is 'Feeling Called Love' which is perhaps my least favourite Wire tune - that one actually worked better with George Gill on guitar! Still what do I know? I was listening to the Wombles back then. Deep Purple couldn't rock their way out of a mouldy old dough bag! Now Black Flag - there was a band who rocked! As for the eighties there was so much good music it'd take forever to detail it - if you can't be bothered to look beyond the mainstream you'll never find much worthwhile! Heard 3 songs off Radiohead - title track's like something Aphex Twin could've farted out in his sleep and discarded as dull seven years ago, another instrumental was like a tenth rate watered down Labradford, the other one sounded like they'd tried and failed to rip off Sigur Ros - innovation! But at least its not bloody Oasis, eh? Little Lord Fauntleroy also spoils a song off the new PJ Harvey album with his whining. Oooowaaayeee! Shaddap! Moby is one of the shittiest live acts I've ever witnnessed! Aargh! My spleen's all outta bile!!!!!!!!!!!! An Ex Ambient Butcher ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 17:23:32 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: On Topic: Magazine and Wire IMO the Wire/Magazine contrast is fairly easily explained. Can I reminisce ? Despite accounting for only 20% of the personnel, I recall Magazine being regarded at the time as a Buzzcocks splinter band. I remember the excitement of expectation in the "punk" corner of our art O Level class when "Shot by Both Sides" was cued up for the first time on Radio 1. Thus Magazine had a ready-made "compare and contrast" that exaggerated the extent to which their music was not to be found in the next house down the street from Spiral Scratch. ///// yep , a classic single. but it became a real millstone for them as that radio-friendly shelley tune was something they didn't really manage to equal amongst themselves until maybe "floorboards". by which time a lot of the punk audience had deserted them and they didn't find anything to replace it with. Or rather, as Paul Morley suggests in this month's Uncut, whilst the Buzzcocks were in the kitchen, Magazine were upstairs in the well-decorated bedroom, spending a few sleepless nights. But also reading books. If there's one thing that Magazine's songs convey it is the fact that Devoto has been reading books, and better books than the ones you are reading. Magazine always carried themselves with an air of superiority, very attractive to critics hunting for easy targets. Historians head for the session version of "Boredom" on "Maybe It's Right to be Nervous Now" as evidence that Devoto found this amusing - knowing vocals, ELP organ riffs and Osmonds synth solo included. ///// you avoid the word pretentious i see........... Meanwhile, no-one had expectations for Wire except for those the group generated themselves. And for every person who had been affected by an arty LP track, there were three more who had tapped their toes to absurdist comedy singles such as "Dot Dash" and "I am the Fly". Wire did a very good job of deflating their own pretensions, such that there was hardly a moment on any of the records where you didn't suspect that at least one member had their tongue in cheek. I have always found Wire funny, but suspicious that Magazine were laughing rather more than their listeners. //// agreed completely ; colin always comes over as having a wry smile at things. And a lot happened in the six months between "Secondhand Daylight" and "154" - the explosion of Two Tone deposed punk/new wave as the predominant obsession, leaving punk to the UK Subs, 999 and the Angelic Upstarts, and Joy Division had emerged with "Unknown Pleasures" as the first great post-punk group. And somebody came to power preaching inter-generational hatred, encouraging a new solidarity within generations. And other pseudo-sociological claims. Are there any listers who were introduced to music by the Specials/Madness/Beat and did you feel the need to hate Pink Floyd that those two years older regarded as a duty ? ///// my experience at school was that 2-tone kids (and , much more so , mod revivalists) were ex-punks who'd been into it for the "outrage" rather than the music. but i'm not saying that was a statistically significant sample of the population....... As for pretentious groups from the class of 77/78 ... Ultravox, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Monochrome Set, Scritti Politti, Punilux ... /////// john foxx ; what a talentless chancer. and pretentious too. siouxsie (and severin) ; maybe a bit pretentious. monochrome set ; bit cruel , bid's tongue never left his cheek really. scritti ; i guess so. punilux ; just silly really. on the subject of chancers , i taped "supersonic" this morning on granada plus (fab channel....) and they had our old mate chris spedding playing with the vibrators. i'd never heard that "pogo dancing" track before. and i wish i still hadn't. they also did a (very slightly) punked up version of "motorbikin". which has the same tune. not sure who of this dismal double act i felt more sorry for ; the one thing worse i can think of would be eater backing up shakin stevens,p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 01:23:37 +0100 From: Tim Robinson Subject: Re: Off Topic: Magazine > Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 19:18:51 +0100 > From: "Stephen Jackson" > Subject: Off Topic: Magazine > > Just thought that I'd let those who might be interested know that the > Magazine box set "Maybe it's right to be nervous now" is brilliant. > > I for one am surprised how fresh it all sounds. It's hard to believe that > "Twenty Years Ago" was, like, recorded twenty years ago..... If like me you're not familiar with their work (I was only about 5 when they were out and I've only ever heard 'Shot by Both Sides' at a club ages ago) then I can recommend the best of which has come out as a companion to the above; 'Where the Power is' which I am listening to right now. Don't know about you lot but this is strange (but goodie) stuff indeed to my Twentysomething ears...doesn't seem to fit anywhere neatly...sort of mid 70s Bowie/Roxy meets Joy Division with some noodly prog tendencies...plus a big dollop of that icy, European cool you can hear running through early Soft Cell/Human League (could be a description of Wire). Is that a fretless bass I hear?! They look kind of cool on the cover...especially B.Adamson. One of them sports a moustache like the bloke from Sparks. Which one is he? 'The Light Pours out of Me' has now slipped into my top10 of all time and I think I like this band. Maybe I'll have bought the 3 CD box set of b-sides by next year. Do you think they might re-form like Wire sometime? How was this stuff percieved in the heady days of 1978? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 19:39:44 -0500 From: "wiremailorder.com" Subject: Achim Reichel? Anyone ever heard of Achim Reichel & Machines's Die Gruene Reise LP? I pulled it off of Napster the other day, and the (drone?!) guitars are simply fantastich! Very post punk. I think the album pre- dates Faust, et al. He went on to be a producer/filmstar/??? charles shop@wiremailorder.com http://wiremailorder.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 02:17:09 +0100 From: Tim Robinson Subject: Re: Moby = Dick No I'm quite happy actually, Its just that things like Moby bring out the 'inner Johnny Rotten' in me. Maybe its because I just watched 'The Filth & the Fury'!. Its just that Moby seems to represent everything I hate about Y2k culture at the moment...he is sort of Pine Floored, coffee table muzak with a dose of 'Healthy' blues authenticity just because he includes a few samples about 'feeling so sad' and all that. Sort of musical Museli, and we all know what the end product of that is. Katherine Pouliot wrote: > Wow, if this doesn't sound like a male PMS fit, I don't know what does!? ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #305 *******************************