From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #304 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Sunday, October 8 2000 Volume 03 : Number 304 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: oh no not prog....... ["wiremailorder.com" ] Re: record hoarding/wick rakeman/the fall [Howard Spencer ] Re: Off Topic: Magazine [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: record hoarding/wick rakeman/the fall [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Vodsels and Icpathua Toggles [=?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= ] Moby = Dick [Tim Robinson ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 06:53:49 -0500 From: "wiremailorder.com" Subject: Re: oh no not prog....... Paul - Brace yourself - www.progressiverock.com I think your point to the list was accurate. I mean, we all listened to music before 1976! the website is a sort of tribute to that; god knows that history hasn't been kind to them! but there are some incredible bands from that era, and of course, some really shitty ones too! Part of the appeal to 154 at the time it came out was that it was... "progressive". But Townsend is probably right about one thing. It's for "old men". I find it impossible to find anyone under 30 that understands prog or progressive rock; even people over! Unfortunately there is the progheads who are incrediably singular in their musical tastes. Yet certainly the aesthetic has its weaknesses, but being pretentious is surely not the one. Punk rock? Looking back now, that's pretentious. Deep Purple? One heavy f&cking rock band! charles/wmo ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 05:23:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Wireviews Subject: Moby " I bought "play" to make up the numbers in a three CDs for so much, offer. I also disliked it on first hearing and gave it to my ex who really likes it. For me Play sounded over produced and built around a sugar sentiment that I couldn't get on with. Good luck to him I suppose, but he does ladel it on. " Well, having seen Moby twice during his 'punk' era and then forgotten all about him, I suddenly heard a track on Future Music called Natural Blues. I didn't know it was him and was quite surprised. Play was released that week so I bought it and it was one of the best albums of '99 in my opinion. I can't believe anyone would say it's over produced, listening to some of the quirks, general rattling and slightly dodgy nature of the sampling! Sure, the whole thing's overplayed now, but that's due to a certain Daniel Miller whoring the album due to it dropping out of the charts after the first week of release by licensing the whole thing off to whoever wanted it, in order to get some money back. If only they'd known... :-) Craig. ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. Snub.Comms: http://welcome.to/snub Veer Audio: http://listen.to/veer - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 14:20:44 +0100 From: Howard Spencer Subject: Re: record hoarding/wick rakeman/the fall Don't ever throw any records away Paul (or anyone else). The icicle works had their moments - `out of season' being perhaps the best. It bites have become confused in my mind with Go West. i still hold on to 12" singles by the likes of Its immaterial, Vicious pink phenomena and Enya. Yes, Enya. You never know when it might come in handy. A mate of mine recently bought a Rick Wakeman LP for a laugh - six wives of Henry VIII. We stuck it on one evening - oh dear, it really is so bad that it isn't even funny. That was certainly a wierd point in rock music - when technical virtuousity became a sort of end and a justification in itself. Like PAul I well recall the dividing line between pre and post punk - tho there were plenty of `punk refusniks' at my school who continued to 'dig' genesis and the like. Have to say that I have never really got over my prejudice against early 70s serious rock men's music, apart from the odd genesis single. i had a really black bad taste chuckle a few years back when part of a stadium collapsed somewhere in the middle of a floyd gig - must've woken at least some of the audience up, I thought. hehhehheh. For related reasons, I would nominate `A touching display' as my least favourite Wire song. Any news of this Fall gig in Oxford? There's.a good fall track on the latest freebie CD with WIRE magazine (I think it might be subscribers only). I've never been a dedicated fan - only odd bits have really got to me down the years - but I'll certainly be going to see them at the Zodiac, which is about a ten minute walk from where I live. Whose up for it then? Howard - -- Howard Spencer Research Editor, nineteenth century New Dictionary of National Biography (direct line: 01865 267021) http://www.oup.co.uk/newdnb/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 19:18:51 +0100 From: "Stephen Jackson" Subject: Off Topic: Magazine Just thought that I'd let those who might be interested know that the Magazine box set "Maybe it's right to be nervous now" is brilliant. I for one am surprised how fresh it all sounds. It's hard to believe that "Twenty Years Ago" was, like, recorded twenty years ago..... Steve. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ They use the head and not the fist. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 15:46:57 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: Off Topic: Magazine Just thought that I'd let those who might be interested know that the Magazine box set "Maybe it's right to be nervous now" is brilliant. I for one am surprised how fresh it all sounds. It's hard to believe that "Twenty Years Ago" was, like, recorded twenty years ago..... Steve. >> ///////absolutely ; i'm listening to it as i write this ("vigilance" , to be precise). bit of an odd choice of tracks maybe , but great nonetheless. relating to the prog discussions , i think magazine were the act who maybe sufferred more than anybody from those accusations. at the time i recall "secondhand daylight" being considered very ideologically suspect , way too many keyboards and not punky enough at all. seems a daft thing to say now , but that was a widely held view then. virgin threw a pile of money at them and failed to get anywhere. despite the obvious artiness of 154 i never recall wire getting the flak howie did , maybe wire just never seemed to be trying so hard? but of the class of 77/78 i can't recall too many acts i'd describe as "pretentious". who did you have in mind charles? p ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 15:51:11 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: record hoarding/wick rakeman/the fall Don't ever throw any records away Paul (or anyone else). The icicle works had their moments - `out of season' being perhaps the best. It bites have become confused in my mind with Go West. i still hold on to 12" singles by the likes of Its immaterial, Vicious pink phenomena and Enya. Yes, Enya. You never know when it might come in handy. //////// handy for what howard? :-) i used to quite fancy the girl in VPP but the music was pretty dire as i recall. It Bites vs Go West ; close call. in anti-80's rants i normally use go west as the sort of epitomy of a vacuous 80's act actually. For related reasons, I would nominate `A touching display' as my least favourite Wire song. ////// you know that one's really grown on me over the years. Any news of this Fall gig in Oxford? There's.a good fall track on the latest freebie CD with WIRE magazine (I think it might be subscribers only). I've never been a dedicated fan - only odd bits have really got to me down the years - but I'll certainly be going to see them at the Zodiac, which is about a ten minute walk from where I live. Whose up for it then? ////// i certainly am. have you got an accurate date yet? p Howard ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 20:53:14 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: Vodsels and Icpathua Toggles Anyone remember Michel Faber? He used to post some interesting ponderings to the Ideal Copy before he went off to concentarte on writing his next book. I've just been reading his novel 'Under the Skin' (Canongate ISBN 0 86241 927 1) which I'd rate as the finest piece of contemporary fiction I've perused since Iain M. Banks' 'Feersum Endjinn'. The story centres on a very strange woman who drives around the Scottish Highlands picking up male hitch hikers. To say much more would spoil it for anyone who's going to read it, but it mashes up sci-fi and horror elements with an underlying moral fable which might just make a few people consider switching to a vegetarian diet! If you want to find out what Vodsels and Icpathua are, then go read it. The first chapter is online at the Guardian's 'Books Unlimited' site, but things get quite a bit weirder as the tale unfurls! http://www.booksunlimited.co.uk/firstchapters/story/0,6761,216469,00.html At least, it was there about 3 weeks ago! Lock up your hats! An Ex Vodsel Chaser ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 15:50:58 -0500 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Off Topic: Magazine >but of the class of 77/78 i can't recall too many acts i'd describe as >"pretentious". who did you have in mind charles? p Oh, you know ... anybody who didn't sound like Styx, basically. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 03:45:28 +0100 From: Tim Robinson Subject: Moby = Dick > > >>Chris. > > I bought "play" to make up the numbers in a three CDs for so much, offer. I > also disliked it on first hearing and gave it to my ex who really likes it. > For me Play sounded over produced and built around a sugar sentiment that I > couldn't get on with. > Good luck to him I suppose, but he does ladel it on. Why is Moby such a sacred cow? Bad luck to him I say. God spare us from his insipid coffee table musak for and leave it to the Gareth Cheeseman's of this world (sorry non UK listees...I was referring to Steve Coogans brilliantly observed Software Salesman there...) Here in little Britain, Mute in their infinite wisdom have just released yet another single off Play.....perhaps when they have released every track as a single then they can re-release them all again in reverse order. I hate the way he's used every track for a poxy Car advert...as if wearily resigned to the fact that music can only exist to serve the world of commerce. I hate the way he has suddenly decided to play down his Christianity/anti-drug stance in order to sell more records. I hate the way 'Play' is basically an end of the century update of that bloody Enigma record..but with 'authentic' blues samples replacing that other great ambient cliché, the Gregorian Chant. God save us all from those who lack style, imagination, sex appeal and brains but unfortunately have sufficient record company backing to pollute our radios, televisions and computers. Fall down a big ditch into the very bowels of satan please Moby, and take the Badly Drawn Boy with you. Moby is no more worthy of your attention than Westlife. If any of you must by a mid-price Mute release get the last Speedy J album. Its emotional, electronic and far too crunchy and noisy to be used to sell Mondeo's to humorless, gas guzzling middle English tory scumbags. Oh lordy! ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #304 *******************************