From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #303 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Saturday, October 7 2000 Volume 03 : Number 303 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: tv eye [Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk] Retv eye [alan gray ] Re: Retv eye [Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk] Re: Master of the Universe ["Syarzhuk Kazachenka" ] strange borrowing [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] oh no not prog....... [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: strange borrowing [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: oh no not prog....... [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: oh no not prog....... [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: oh no not prog....... [george.m.hook@ac.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 10:16:53 +0100 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: Re: tv eye Mobby. He is everywhere. I bought "Play". Disliked it after the first play. If anyone wants a prime example of music by numbers buy this. You can almost hear the Cubase metronome clicking away. I do think some of his earlier stuff is still worth listening to and for that reason I will be watching. Chris. PaulRabjohn@aol.com on 05/10/2000 22:26:52 To: idealcopy@smoe.org cc: (bcc: Chris Ray/Finance/MEDAS) Subject: tv eye just saw a trailer for later on bbc2 this saturday , a one hour moby special. looks good , i know he's everywhere now but i must say i really rate "play". could be worth a look.p ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 05:58:25 -0400 (EDT) From: alan gray Subject: Retv eye >>Mobby. He is everywhere. I bought "Play". Disliked it after >>the first play. >>If anyone wants a prime example of music by numbers buy this. >>You can >>almost hear the Cubase metronome clicking away. >>I do think some of his earlier stuff is still worth listening >>to and for >>that reason I will be watching. >>Chris. I bought "play" to make up the numbers in a three CDs for so much, offer. I also disliked it on first hearing and gave it to my ex who really likes it. For me Play sounded over produced and built around a sugar sentiment that I couldn't get on with. Good luck to him I suppose, but he does ladel it on. Alan - ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 11:16:43 +0100 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: Re: Retv eye Let's hope Mobby's profits enable Mute to release a Buzzkunst CD! Chris alan gray on 06/10/2000 10:58:25 To: idealcopy@smoe.org cc: (bcc: Chris Ray/Finance/MEDAS) Subject: Retv eye >>Mobby. He is everywhere. I bought "Play". Disliked it after >>the first play. >>If anyone wants a prime example of music by numbers buy this. >>You can >>almost hear the Cubase metronome clicking away. >>I do think some of his earlier stuff is still worth listening >>to and for >>that reason I will be watching. >>Chris. I bought "play" to make up the numbers in a three CDs for so much, offer. I also disliked it on first hearing and gave it to my ex who really likes it. For me Play sounded over produced and built around a sugar sentiment that I couldn't get on with. Good luck to him I suppose, but he does ladel it on. Alan - ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 06:44:31 EDT From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: Re: Master of the Universe alan, guluz et al, Here's the link to that "reconstructions" album: http://www.hawkwind.com/ritual.htm Syarzhuk Be healthy, stay wealthy... Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://belmusic.hypermart.net _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 08:28:37 -0500 From: "Ciscon, Ray" Subject: RE: [NON WIRE] Some sad news, I'm afraid Paul Pietromonaco wrote: Hi everyone, What with all the talk of 70's and 80's bands on the list lately, I thought I'd better pass this along. (It's been confirmed from a number of sources) Cheers, Paul > > CARS BASSIST BENJAMIN ORR DEAD > > BENJAMIN ORR, the former bassist of the CARS who > occasionally handled > lead vocal duties ("Just What I Needed," "Let's Go," > "Drive"), died of > cancer late Tuesday night at his home in Atlanta, Ga. > He was > fifty-three. Orr, who was diagnosed with pancreatic > cancer last May, had recently > been performing with a new band in Atlanta, BIG > PEOPLE. ================== This is a sad occasion. The Cars were one of my favorite bands in High School, and they made very pretty, if mostly disposable, pop music. Ben Orr had a wonderful voice, better than lead singer Ric Ocasek in fact, and IMO was one of the reasons for the success that the Cars had. The best Cars songs featured incredibly beautiful vocal harmonies, which were mostly Ben Orr's doing. I can't say much for his bass playing, it wasn't a featured instrument for the Cars, Elliot Easton's guitar (quite good IMO), and Greg Hawke's keyboards were the bands key features. Say what you will, about others, i.e. ELO, Styx, the Cars stayed pretty honest to their new wave/power pop roots and never let pretensions get in the way of good clean fun. Cheers, Ray Ciscon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 10:34:38 -0400 From: "Katherine Pouliot" Subject: Ben Orr Very well said Ray... I agree with you completely. katherine - ----- Original Message ----- From: Ciscon, Ray To: Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 9:28 AM Subject: RE: [NON WIRE] Some sad news, I'm afraid > This is a sad occasion. The Cars were one of my favorite bands in High > School, and they made very pretty, if mostly disposable, pop music. > > Ben Orr had a wonderful voice, better than lead singer Ric Ocasek in fact, > and IMO was one of the reasons for the success that the Cars had. > > > The best Cars songs featured incredibly beautiful vocal harmonies, > > which were mostly Ben Orr's doing. > > I can't say much for his bass playing, it wasn't a featured instrument for > the Cars, Elliot Easton's guitar (quite good IMO), and Greg Hawke's > keyboards were the bands key features. > > Say what you will, about others, i.e. ELO, Styx, the Cars stayed pretty > honest to their new wave/power pop roots and never let pretensions get in > the way of good clean fun. > > Cheers, > > Ray Ciscon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 10:37:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: strange borrowing So I'm driving to Chicago, and I have the Fall's _The Light User Syndrome_ in my CD player. "Hostile" comes on, and I'm thinking, "Hmmm...that little melody that Brix is singing sounds *awfully* familiar" - but I couldn't place it. I turned the CD off, was humming the damned thing for like 15 minutes, finally could *hear* its source in my head: on a synth, more staccato, but with a similarly abrupt and martial bassline...but for the life of me couldn't ID the artist or song it was similar to. I had some vague idea that it was from the '80s, but that was it. I shrugged and put the CD back on. And I read the other day that Benjamin Orr, bassist and sometimes singer of the Cars, had died - and it hit me: "Moving in Stereo," from the Cars' first, self-titled CD. Actually, I guess that isn't so strange - I can imagine the young Brix jumping around to that album and annoying professor Dad, who tells her to can it, so she says, "shut up or I'll run off to England and marry a drunken, iconoclastic punk singer." - --Jeff Jeffrey Norman, Posemodernist University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee Dept. of Mumblish & Competitive Obliterature http://www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 11:57:18 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: oh no not prog....... following george's mail on this i thought i'd just say a bit more. like a lot of the uk listers i'm in my mid-30's and started really liking music as punk broke. maybe if you're in the us it's harder to imagine but here in 1978 it was like 1975 was a long long time ago and pre-punk stuff was just totally shunned. i remember the widely quoted paul simonon comment about how he detested led zeppelin just from the record sleeves ; there was no need to hear the music. and , together with most of my schoolfriends , i just dismissed anything pre-76 as a load of hippy rubbish. sounds silly now ,but that was a widely held attitude. now i admit i'll listen to almost anything and some of those acts (floyd , zeppelin) i really like. never got deep purple , all that screeching. but i still loathe yelpesis and all they stand for....sorry bout that but there you go. but i am guilty of lumping all those prog acts together ; must admit i have no idea what camel , caravan , uriah heep , wishbone ash , amon duul and numerous others sound like but i just can't work up the enthusiasm to investigate. though i gather gryphon are worth a giggle (hi there mike t). and i'd like to hear colin's hawkwind thing. and it's a lovely thought that pink flag was named with an ironic nod to the floyd , but i'm not sure that's the case. and lumping the cars in with ELO is a bit much , have some respect for the poor guy......p ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 12:19:58 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: strange borrowing Jeff, Bit of a magpie, our Brix.... compare and contrast her guitar line on 'Barmy' (off This Nation's Saving grace) with the Monkees' Valleri.... Notebooks out, plagiarists! Mark << So I'm driving to Chicago, and I have the Fall's _The Light User Syndrome_ in my CD player. "Hostile" comes on, and I'm thinking, "Hmmm...that little melody that Brix is singing sounds *awfully* familiar" - but I couldn't place it. I turned the CD off, was humming the damned thing for like 15 minutes, finally could *hear* its source in my head: on a synth, more staccato, but with a similarly abrupt and martial bassline...but for the life of me couldn't ID the artist or song it was similar to. I had some vague idea that it was from the '80s, but that was it. I shrugged and put the CD back on. And I read the other day that Benjamin Orr, bassist and sometimes singer of the Cars, had died - and it hit me: "Moving in Stereo," from the Cars' first, self-titled CD. Actually, I guess that isn't so strange - I can imagine the young Brix jumping around to that album and annoying professor Dad, who tells her to can it, so she says, "shut up or I'll run off to England and marry a drunken, iconoclastic punk singer." >> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 12:29:13 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: oh no not prog....... Paul, Pretty much hit the nail on the head. Some of us had been into the Glam thing a few years earlier - but it was so depressing the way it deteriorated so quickly into prog. I remember seeing classmates at school getting into ELP, Rick Wakeman etc and feeling a sense of despair....I couldn't see anything good about that music and I still can't. Just smelly old hippy crap. My favourite records around 75 were Philadelphia soul singles. Stuff that got straight to the point. Funny you highlight Zep and Floyd as the two bands you now like from the period. Same here - though it wasn't until the '90s that I got round to buying their stuff (other than Syd-era Floyd stuff - I remember buying Relics in a junk shop for 20p in about 1979). It was only last year that I finally abandoned a ridiculous system of cataloguing vinyl albums as post-punk or pre-punk. Two separate A-Z sections, which had grown to roughly equal size.... Mark << following george's mail on this i thought i'd just say a bit more. like a lot of the uk listers i'm in my mid-30's and started really liking music as punk broke. maybe if you're in the us it's harder to imagine but here in 1978 it was like 1975 was a long long time ago and pre-punk stuff was just totally shunned. i remember the widely quoted paul simonon comment about how he detested led zeppelin just from the record sleeves ; there was no need to hear the music. and , together with most of my schoolfriends , i just dismissed anything pre-76 as a load of hippy rubbish. sounds silly now ,but that was a widely held attitude. now i admit i'll listen to almost anything and some of those acts (floyd , zeppelin) i really like. never got deep purple , all that screeching. but i still loathe yelpesis and all they stand for....sorry bout that but there you go. but i am guilty of lumping all those prog acts together ; must admit i have no idea what camel , caravan , uriah heep , wishbone ash , amon duul and numerous others sound like but i just can't work up the enthusiasm to investigate. though i gather gryphon are worth a giggle (hi there mike t). and i'd like to hear colin's hawkwind thing. and it's a lovely thought that pink flag was named with an ironic nod to the floyd , but i'm not sure that's the case. and lumping the cars in with ELO is a bit much , have some respect for the poor guy......p >> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 17:00:18 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: oh no not prog....... Pretty much hit the nail on the head. Some of us had been into the Glam thing a few years earlier - but it was so depressing the way it deteriorated so quickly into prog. I remember seeing classmates at school getting into ELP, Rick Wakeman etc and feeling a sense of despair....I couldn't see anything good about that music and I still can't. Just smelly old hippy crap. My favourite records around 75 were Philadelphia soul singles. Stuff that got straight to the point. ///// that makes you about 4 or 5 years older than me. first records i ever bought were slade and sweet when i was about 9 , but it was just the frothy silly stuff i bought. the smarter end of glam wasn't something i heard until post punk , i guess when bowie got hip again to the new romantics and people my age started checking out zigggy/hunky etc (2 brilliant albums). at that age soul didn't touch me , it was things like costello leading into the standard pistols/buzzcocks/clash. Funny you highlight Zep and Floyd as the two bands you now like from the period. Same here - though it wasn't until the '90s that I got round to buying their stuff (other than Syd-era Floyd stuff - I remember buying Relics in a junk shop for 20p in about 1979). ////// i read the Q review of "kid a" today and the reviewer states firmly that ok computer is a better album than dark side of the moon. even apart from the merits of comparing things 25 yrs apart i had to smile , DSOTM did nothing for me in the mid 70's but i get it now. that , meddle and relics would be the 3 i'd choose. plus led zep 1-4 (certainly not stuff like "in through the out door" , yuk). It was only last year that I finally abandoned a ridiculous system of cataloguing vinyl albums as post-punk or pre-punk. Two separate A-Z sections, which had grown to roughly equal size.... /////// i have a hidden section i don't allow to infiltrate the rest , my brother keeps giving me stuff he hasn't got room for. i can't bring myself to throw it away but don't really know what to do with it. does anyone know of a market for old "it bites" 12"s or icicle works lp's? it costs about 30p to list something on ebay so i reckon i've got no chance of breaking even....... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 16:24:19 -0500 From: george.m.hook@ac.com Subject: Re: oh no not prog....... Pete Townshend has been thinking about prog rock, too, it seems ... From NME's Web site: |--------------------------------------------------------------------------| |TOWNSHEND KICKS UP WHO-HAH! | | | |Who are we calling 'prog': Townshend (left) | | | | | | | |THE WHO's PETE TOWNSHEND has launched a stinging attack at nme.com, | |branding the review of his band's NEW YORK show earlier this week a | |"sneer" written by a journalist "probably too young" to properly know his | |subject. | | | |The extraordinary riposte was posted today (October 6) on his website | |www.petetownshend.com a matter of hours after the original review of the | |Madison Square Gardens performance appeared on nme.com. | | | |Townshend was angered by journalist Alan Woodhouse's remarks that the show| |lapsed into "prog rock hell", that tunes were overlong and indulgent, and | |that Townshend himself made frequent "rambling pontifications on a number | |of subjects", particularly how much he loved his kids. | | | |"I will not apologise for loving my kids," he raged. "If the NME critic | |has any balls at all, and sperm, he will come to know how it feels to love| |one's kids, and be prepared to bore all comers with the fact." | | | |He went on: "My long guitar solos are, of course, hugely self-indulgent. I| |won't claim to have invented prog rock, but if I played any part I will | |accept the mantle... The universally applauded 'Live At Leeds' was | |probably a high point for what the NME now calls 'prog rock'. | | | |"In fact, the NME guy who came to see us at MSG was probably too young to | |know what 'prog rock' really is." | | | |Townshend also answered one of the inferences that the band were perhaps a| |little too old to be beating out songs such as 'My Generation', saying: | | | |"It's an indulgence of the weary and weathered veteran, if you like. One | |thing old people don't do, not willingly, is shut up." | | | |Meanwhile, Woodhouse has stuck to his guns. | | | |"It was overblown and not what you want or expect from The Who," he said. | |"They have some great songs, but some things are best left at peace. | |Perhaps the time is right to fade away. Quietly." | | | |To prove his point, Townshend has posted several MP3s of tunes from the | |show alongside the full transcript of his points against nme.com here. | |Listen to the songs, then click here to tell us who you think was right. | | | |--------------------------------------------------------------------------| ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #303 *******************************