From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #298 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Monday, October 2 2000 Volume 03 : Number 298 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Me no like machine rage! [=?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= ] Re: [idealcopy] radiohead [Aaron Mandel ] Re: radiohead ["Paul Pietromonaco" ] Re: radiohead ["Paul Pietromonaco" ] RE: A Multicolor Rainbow Type Area ["giluz" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 18:40:36 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: Me no like machine rage! >>You might think that RATM & Wire are wonderful tools to bring the oppressed masses to their feet to fight against 'the man'.<< Then again I might not. I do not wish to leave anyone under the impression that I like RATM. However this has nothing to do with the fact that they are artists. And on a good night Wire fly! As far as tools go the Drill is a wonderful one. Is this entity 'the man' the one in a big straw hat who kept Lou Reed waiting or some other bloke? >>I guarantee you that less than 5% of the people in the U.S. who purchase RATM CD's know or care about the political content of their albums.<< Does this mean I can get my money back from Sony if the revolution doesn't start when I yell 'Fuck you I won't tidy my bedroom'? >>Your attempt to draw parallels between the lyrics are obvious.<< I wasn't attempting to draw a parallel at all - quite the opposite. It amused me that the Rage lyric was quite nebulous whereas the Wire lyric addressed a specific situation and hit the nail right on the head. The political content of the Wire lyric is fairly obvious. >>but it's just as obvious that Wire's lyrics are written by someone who has an IQ above 100.<< So what are RATM's IQ's? If they are below 100 then does that also preclude them from artist status? Since when were rock songs used as an IQ test? I'm glad Sire didn't make Dee Dee Ramone sit an exam before they let him rock it to Russia! Just because RATM songs are dull doesn't necessarily mean they are too. >>The old 'looking at the world as black and white' argument... that's so passé... Black and White from your paradigm might be a 16 million color Technicolor extravaganza from your neighbor's point of view... You don't expect all of us to see things exactly the way you do?<< It wasn't me who came up with the amusing notion that the set of proselytizers and the set of artists are mutually exclusive. Draw a simple Venn diagram and assign the set of artists the colour white and the set of proselytizers the colour black. Where they overlap is the gray area. Of course I don't expect everyone on the list to share all my views. That would be a bit silly. As for Brian Doherty's (is this the same Brian Doherty who plays in the excellent Lhasa Cement Plant?) put down of hypocrites, well most revolutionary movements have been led by so-called hypocrites from the upper or middle classes who 'defected' to supposedly lead the proletariat. Whether or not I want a revolution is beside the point. It always makes me laugh when I hear about McDonalds getting their windows smashed though! For a heartwarming tale of tinkling glass in Prague, point yer browsers here: http://www.squall.co.uk/frontline.html As far as corporate rock whores go, give me polemic spouting hypocrites over vacuous loudmouths with nothing to say anyday. I mean I'd rather the kids were getting het up to Rage than putting socks on their dicks to Red Hot Chilli Peppers. I like the idea of a boycott of all major label product in view of the Napster harrassment. Actually I like the idea anyway! As far as contemporary major label artists go, only Boredoms interest me greatly these days and despite being signed to a branch of the largest entertainment corporation on the planet, it's nearly impossible to find any of their recordings in the UK. OK so I still like Sonic Youth enough to get their CD out the library and tape it. And PJ Harvey is quite good - although the five songs I've heard from her forthcoming album sounded a bit tepid. BTW I'd like to second Giluz' recommendation of the 'Red Line' album by Trans Am on Thrill Jockey, even if one song sounds like Buzcocks covering Rush! Youth Against Fascism Bore Yu ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 14:12:58 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: radiohead so , er , anyone heard this new album yet? havn't seen a vaguely positive review yet........ also last months Q had this huge "exclusive" "only interview" yet this week he's also done huge spreads in the guardian and observer that i've seen , no doubt more besides. wonder why the change of heart? p ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 14:37:15 EDT From: "Katherine Pouliot" Subject: Re: radiohead A lot of radio stations around here are previewing the album, at least three stations have done it or are doing it. Because they play it at midnight and my stereo is not properly hooked up to record yet, I haven't heard it. I don't particularly like the single "Optimistic". Actually, the music is ok, but I don't prefer the lyrics. I hope the other songs are better, with music and vocals being equally good. I'll post if I hear more or any more reviews... Katherine kep99@hotmail.com so , er , anyone heard this new album yet? havn't seen a vaguely positive review yet........ also last months Q had this huge "exclusive" "only interview" yet this week he's also done huge spreads in the guardian and observer that i've seen , no doubt more besides. wonder why the change of heart? p _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 19:51:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [idealcopy] radiohead On Sun, 1 Oct 2000 PaulRabjohn@aol.com wrote: > so , er , anyone heard this new album yet? havn't seen a vaguely > positive review yet... i hated their first two records, can tolerate OK Computer, and am very pleasantly surprised by Kid A. i guess it's more of the same, in a way -- they're popularizing "difficult" music. i expect lots of back-patting from their fans about how complicated the record is and how many times they had to listen to it in order to like it, but unlike with OK Computer, i think it stands a chance of actually emboldening some of those fans to expand their horizons. if i sound a little condescending about this, it's because i'm tired of hearing about how uncompromising, abrasive and deep Radiohead are from friends of mine who think everything i like is "weird". a ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 01:04:25 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: radiohead > A lot of radio stations around here are previewing the album, >I don't particularly like the single "Optimistic". Actually, according to the press, there is no official single or video from the album. If your radio station is playing a song, it's because they picked the song. Ask 'em to play a better one. (^_^) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 01:02:39 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: radiohead > so , er , anyone heard this new album yet? havn't seen a vaguely positive > review yet........ also last months Q had this huge "exclusive" "only > interview" yet this week he's also done huge spreads in the guardian and > observer that i've seen , no doubt more besides. wonder why the change of > heart? p Well, it's been getting very positive reviews in the U.S. Unfortunately, we don't get to hear it until October 3rd. Damn - and I just spent all of my money on the Pearl Jam bootlegs. (Yes - I bought all of them. Does this revoke my Ideal Copy Mailing list status? (^_^)) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 11:09:50 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: A Multicolor Rainbow Type Area Ray wrote about Rage Against the Machine: > ============================ > The lyrics above look like they could have come from the notebook cover of > any college freshman who's just finished reading Mao's Little Red Book. I > see no 'real' intelligence in the lyrics, just the words of a cynical > trust-fund kid who's selling millions of CD's by pushing radical > chic to the > young heads full of mush in the U.S. I guarantee you that less than 5% of > the people in the U.S. who purchase RATM CD's know or care about the > political content of their albums... to them, RATM 'rocks', > 'they're dope', > 'fill in your favorite fad expression'. > The lyrics are crap, I agree with you. I think what comes out from the comparisons between RATM and Wire is that (and correct me if I'm wrong) you don't mind politics in music if at least it's intelligent. You could enjoy Wire's 1st Letter even though you don't agree with the political content because it was intelligent and witty. You do not like RATM's lyrics because they suck, regardless of its political views, and because they use politics to promote themselves. . I think that sort of concludes this pointless old debate about music in politics we had here. Singing about politics is just like singing about anything else - it can be good or crap, depending on the talent of the writer. As for this "Musicians should stick to music and politicians to politics" thing - however crap and foolish musicians can be (and they can be), I'd prefer to hear almost anyone to listening to politicians talking about politics. giluz ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #298 *******************************